Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,08:10    I've been meaning to do this for a while, but always manage to get sidetracked. Long, long ago, before I took on the mantle of the man with the mop, I posted little interesting science bits that I'd come across in my travels about the web.  I'd give them their own threads, and sometimes they'd get some commentary and discussion, sometimes not. Then I took to just posting them on the BW, to save from a bunch of empty threads, but then they just sort of got lost or buried amongst a big dump of trolling from PT or random matches of Mornington Crescent, or Ftk backwash or random silliness. I'm starting this thread as a place for us all to just post links to Just Cool Science articles upon which we happen, and on which discussion may or may not take place. It'll be nice to have a place for the occasional break from the TARD mines right here in our communal living room. To that end, let me christen the thread with this from LiveScience: Quote Sexy People Sound Better By Greg Soltis, LiveScience Staff posted: 16 July 2008 06:54 am ET People with voices deemed sexy and attractive tend to have greater body symmetry upon close inspection, suggesting that what we hear in a person can greatly affect what we see in them. "The sound of a person's voice reveals a considerable amount of biological information," said Susan Hughes, an evolutionary psychologist from Albright College in Reading, Pa. "It can reflect the mate value of a person." Hughes, whose new study is detailed in the June 2008 edition of the Journal of Nonverbal Behavior, cautions that an attractive voice does not necessarily indicate that this person has an attractive face. More at the link. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,08:12    And let me be clear: I intend to be ruthless to trolls here.  This thread is for real science discussion. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,11:03    Great idea Lou. I've got a few things I wouldn't mind posting, but they are all behind journal pay screens (which I can access but many probably cannot). I'll post the abstracts and hope that's enough. Here's one of the more AtBC relevant ones from this week's Nature: Quote Nature 454, 209-212 (10 July 2008) The evolutionary origin of flatfish asymmetry, Matt Friedman All adult flatfishes (Pleuronectiformes), including the gastronomically familiar plaice, sole, turbot and halibut, have highly asymmetrical skulls, with both eyes placed on one side of the head. This arrangement, one of the most extraordinary anatomical specializations among vertebrates, arises through migration of one eye during late larval development. Although the transformation of symmetrical larvae into asymmetrical juveniles is well documented1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, the evolutionary origins of flatfish asymmetry are uncertain1, 2 because there are no transitional forms linking flatfishes with their symmetrical relatives8, 9. The supposed inviability of such intermediates gave pleuronectiforms a prominent role in evolutionary debates10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, leading to attacks on natural selection11 and arguments for saltatory change14, 15. Here I show that Amphistium and the new genus Heteronectes, both extinct spiny-finned fishes from the Eocene epoch of Europe, are the most primitive pleuronectiforms known. The orbital region of the skull in both taxa is strongly asymmetrical, as in living flatfishes, but these genera retain many primitive characters unknown in extant forms. Most remarkably, orbital migration was incomplete in Amphistium and Heteronectes, with eyes remaining on opposite sides of the head in post-metamorphic individuals. This condition is intermediate between that in living pleuronectiforms and the arrangement found in other fishes. Amphistium and Heteronectes indicate that the evolution of the profound cranial asymmetry of extant flatfishes was gradual in nature. What are the "rules" for this thread (apart from no trolls and knob gags)? I'll try to link things where practical/free. DOIs are the standard I find for linking things if people don't mind. Do you just want internet links? Or are abstracts like the above appropriate? Or less technical articles? Or is it a relative free for all wrt posting scientific stuff? Louis P.S. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH MORNINGTON CRESCENT AND RANDOMN SILLINESS!!!!one11eleven!!!?//????/?? No wait, forget I asked. -------------- Bye.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,11:33    If it's science, I'm good. Just do be sure to remember to note if it's a pdf link.  Some folks don't care much for pdfs or something. Me, personally, I love links to pdfs of the original papers.  A short translation into Carpenter's Son English would be appreciated. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,12:40    From PLoS ONE: A 28,000 Years Old Cro-Magnon mtDNA Sequence Differs from All Potentially Contaminating Modern Sequences   Quote Abstract Background DNA sequences from ancient speciments may in fact result from undetected contamination of the ancient specimens by modern DNA, and the problem is particularly challenging in studies of human fossils. Doubts on the authenticity of the available sequences have so far hampered genetic comparisons between anatomically archaic (Neandertal) and early modern (Cro-Magnoid) Europeans. Methodology/Principal Findings We typed the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) hypervariable region I in a 28,000 years old Cro-Magnoid individual from the Paglicci cave, in Italy (Paglicci 23) and in all the people who had contact with the sample since its discovery in 2003. The Paglicci 23 sequence, determined through the analysis of 152 clones, is the Cambridge reference sequence, and cannot possibly reflect contamination because it differs from all potentially contaminating modern sequences. Conclusions/Significance: The Paglicci 23 individual carried a mtDNA sequence that is still common in Europe, and which radically differs from those of the almost contemporary Neandertals, demonstrating a genealogical continuity across 28,000 years, from Cro-Magnoid to modern Europeans. Because all potential sources of modern DNA contamination are known, the Paglicci 23 sample will offer a unique opportunity to get insight for the first time into the nuclear genes of early modern Europeans. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,12:42    Also from PLoS ONE: Major Histocompatibility Complex Based Resistance to a Common Bacterial Pathogen of Amphibians Quote Abstract Given their well-developed systems of innate and adaptive immunity, global population declines of amphibians are particularly perplexing. To investigate the role of the major histocompatibilty complex (MHC) in conferring pathogen resistance, we challenged Xenopus laevis tadpoles bearing different combinations of four MHC haplotypes (f, g, j, and r) with the bacterial pathogen Aeromonas hydrophila in two experiments. In the first, we exposed ff, fg, gg, gj, and jj tadpoles, obtained from breeding MHC homozygous parents, to one of three doses of A. hydrophila or heat-killed bacteria as a control. In the second, we exposed ff, fg, fr, gg, rg, and rr tadpoles, obtained from breeding MHC heterozygous parents and subsequently genotyped by PCR, to A. hydrophila, heat-killed bacteria or media alone as controls. We thereby determined whether the same patterns of MHC resistance emerged within as among families, independent of non-MHC heritable differences. Tadpoles with r or g MHC haplotypes were more likely to die than were those with f or j haplotypes. Growth rates varied among MHC types, independent of exposure dose. Heterozygous individuals with both susceptible and resistant haplotypes were intermediate to either homozygous genotype in both size and survival. The effect of the MHC on growth and survival was consistent between experiments and across families. MHC alleles differentially confer resistance to, or tolerance of, the bacterial pathogen, which affects tadpoles' growth and survival. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,14:38    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 16 2008,09:10) To that end, let me christen the thread with this from LiveScience:     Quote Sexy People Sound Better By Greg Soltis, LiveScience Staff posted: 16 July 2008 06:54 am ET People with voices deemed sexy and attractive tend to have greater body symmetry upon close inspection, suggesting that what we hear in a person can greatly affect what we see in them. "The sound of a person's voice reveals a considerable amount of biological information," said Susan Hughes, an evolutionary psychologist from Albright College in Reading, Pa. "It can reflect the mate value of a person." Hughes, whose new study is detailed in the June 2008 edition of the Journal of Nonverbal Behavior, cautions that an attractive voice does not necessarily indicate that this person has an attractive face. More at the link. An earlier paper on the subject by Susan Hughes. Ratings of voice attractiveness predict sexual behavior and body configuration (.pdf)   Quote Abstract We investigated the relationship between ratings of voice attractiveness and sexually dimorphic differences in shoulder-to-hip ratios (SHR) and waist-to-hip ratios (WHR), as well as different features of sexual behavior. Opposite-sex voice attractiveness ratings were positively correlated with SHR in males and negatively correlated with WHR in females. For both sexes, ratings of opposite-sex voice attractiveness also predicted reported age of first sexual intercourse, number of sexual partners, number of extra-pair copulation (EPC) partners, and number of partners that they had intercourse with that were involved in another relationship (i.e., were themselves chosen as an EPC partner). Coupled with previous findings showing a relationship between voice attractiveness and bilateral symmetry, these results provide additional evidence that the sound of a person’s voice may serve as an important multidimensional fitness indicator. Edited by Lou FCD on July 16 2008,15:39 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,16:55    Caveman's DNA Looks Modern at Science Now.   Quote By Ann Gibbons ScienceNOW Daily News 16 July 2008 When it comes to the extremely difficult task of sequencing caveman DNA, the third time may be the charm for David Caramelli. After two controversial attempts, the biological anthropologist at the University of Florence, Italy, and colleagues claim to have successfully sequenced mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from the fossils of a Cro-Magnon, a 28,000-year-old European ancestor of living humans. The mtDNA matches that of some modern Europeans but differs from that of Neandertals, shedding light on the fate of these ancient hominids. More at the link. ETA:  Original paper, A 28,000 Years Old Cro-Magnon mtDNA Sequence Differs from All Potentially Contaminating Modern Sequences, published in PLoS ONE. Quote Abstract Background DNA sequences from ancient speciments may in fact result from undetected contamination of the ancient specimens by modern DNA, and the problem is particularly challenging in studies of human fossils. Doubts on the authenticity of the available sequences have so far hampered genetic comparisons between anatomically archaic (Neandertal) and early modern (Cro-Magnoid) Europeans. Methodology/Principal Findings We typed the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) hypervariable region I in a 28,000 years old Cro-Magnoid individual from the Paglicci cave, in Italy (Paglicci 23) and in all the people who had contact with the sample since its discovery in 2003. The Paglicci 23 sequence, determined through the analysis of 152 clones, is the Cambridge reference sequence, and cannot possibly reflect contamination because it differs from all potentially contaminating modern sequences. Conclusions/Significance: The Paglicci 23 individual carried a mtDNA sequence that is still common in Europe, and which radically differs from those of the almost contemporary Neandertals, demonstrating a genealogical continuity across 28,000 years, from Cro-Magnoid to modern Europeans. Because all potential sources of modern DNA contamination are known, the Paglicci 23 sample will offer a unique opportunity to get insight for the first time into the nuclear genes of early modern Europeans. Edited by Lou FCD on July 16 2008,18:00 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,17:16    Empathy is 'Hard-Wired' in Children's Brains, at LiveScience, because the paper is behind a paywall. Quote Study author Jean Decety, a professor in the departments of Psychology and Psychiatry at the University of Chicago, reported that empathy appears to be "hard-wired" into the brains of normal children, as opposed to being solely the result of parental guidance or nurturing. "Consistent with previous functional MRI studies of pain empathy with adults, the perception of other people in pain in children was associated with increased hemodymamic activity in the neural circuits involved in the processing of firsthand experience of pain...," Decety wrote. and the actual abstract, from ScienceDirect: Quote Abstract When we attend to other people in pain, the neural circuits underpinning the processing of first-hand experience of pain are activated in the observer. This basic somatic sensorimotor resonance plays a critical role in the primitive building block of empathy and moral reasoning that relies on the sharing of others' distress. However, the full-blown capacity of human empathy is more sophisticated than the mere simulation of the target's affective state. Indeed, empathy is about both sharing and understanding the emotional state of others in relation to oneself. In this functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) study, 17 typically developing children (range 7–12 yr) were scanned while presented with short animated visual stimuli depicting painful and non-painful situations. These situations involved either a person whose pain was accidentally caused or a person whose pain was intentionally inflicted by another individual. After scanning, children rated how painful these situations appeared. Consistent with previous fMRI studies of pain empathy with adults, the perception of other people in pain in children was associated with increased hemodynamic activity in the neural circuits involved in the processing of first-hand experience of pain, including the insula, somatosensory cortex, anterior midcingulate cortex, periaqueductal gray, and supplementary motor area. Interestingly, when watching another person inflicting pain onto another, regions that are consistently engaged in representing social interaction and moral behavior (the temporo-parietal junction, the paracingulate, orbital medial frontal cortices, amygdala) were additionally recruited, and increased their connectivity with the fronto-parietal attention network. These results are important to set the standard for future studies with children who exhibit social cognitive disorders (e.g., antisocial personality disorder, conduct disorder) and are often deficient in experiencing empathy or guilt. (What's up with scientists and paragraphs, by the way?  Is there a moratorium on carriage returns?) -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,19:15    This looks interesting Control of segment number in vertebrate embryos: Quote The vertebrate body axis is subdivided into repeated segments, best exemplified by the vertebrae that derive from embryonic somites. The number of somites is precisely defined for any given species but varies widely from one species to another. To determine the mechanism controlling somite number, we have compared somitogenesis in zebrafish, chicken, mouse and corn snake embryos. Here we present evidence that in all of these species a similar 'clock-and-wavefront'1, 2, 3 mechanism operates to control somitogenesis; in all of them, somitogenesis is brought to an end through a process in which the presomitic mesoderm, having first increased in size, gradually shrinks until it is exhausted, terminating somite formation. In snake embryos, however, the segmentation clock rate is much faster relative to developmental rate than in other amniotes, leading to a greatly increased number of smaller-sized somites. Edit to add the link goes to the abstract in Nature. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,22:46    Quote Me, personally, I love links to pdfs of the original papers. I almost forgot, if you like links to pdfs you should check out the links page at PT. There are a couple of sections with links to a wide variety of downloadable pdfs. It's a work in progress... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,22:52    Quote (afarensis @ July 16 2008,23:46) Quote Me, personally, I love links to pdfs of the original papers. I almost forgot, if you like links to pdfs you should check out the links page at PT. There are a couple of sections with links to a wide variety of downloadable pdfs. It's a work in progress... Hey, thanks for that, and for hanging stuff up in this thread. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

JAM Posts: 517 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2008,23:52    [quote=afarensis,July 16 2008,19:15]This looks interesting Control of segment number in vertebrate embryos:   Quote The vertebrate body axis is subdivided into repeated segments, best exemplified by the vertebrae that derive from embryonic somites. The number of somites is precisely defined for any given species... Um...there's a slight problem there, as that claim is false. It's false in fish: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v183/n4672/abs/1831408b0.html It's false in pigs: http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/abstract/gr.6085507v1 It's false in people: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal....RETRY=0

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,07:00    Two more, both open access from PNAS: Modular networks and cumulative impact of lateral transfer in prokaryote genome evolution: Quote Abstract Lateral gene transfer is an important mechanism of natural variation among prokaryotes, but the significance of its quantitative contribution to genome evolution is debated. Here, we report networks that capture both vertical and lateral components of evolutionary history among 539,723 genes distributed across 181 sequenced prokaryotic genomes. Partitioning of these networks by an eigenspectrum analysis identifies community structure in prokaryotic gene-sharing networks, the modules of which do not correspond to a strictly hierarchical prokaryotic classification. Our results indicate that, on average, at least 81 ± 15% of the genes in each genome studied were involved in lateral gene transfer at some point in their history, even though they can be vertically inherited after acquisition, uncovering a substantial cumulative effect of lateral gene transfer on longer evolutionary time scales. and A germ-line-selective advantage rather than an increased mutation rate can explain some unexpectedly common human disease mutations Quote Abstract Two nucleotide substitutions in the human FGFR2 gene (C755G or C758G) are responsible for virtually all sporadic cases of Apert syndrome. This condition is 100–1,000 times more common than genomic mutation frequency data predict. Here, we report on the C758G de novo Apert syndrome mutation. Using data on older donors, we show that spontaneous mutations are not uniformly distributed throughout normal testes. Instead, we find foci where C758G mutation frequencies are 3–4 orders of magnitude greater than the remaining tissue. We conclude this nucleotide site is not a mutation hot spot even after accounting for possible Luria–Delbruck “mutation jackpots.” An alternative explanation for such foci involving positive selection acting on adult self-renewing Ap spermatogonia experiencing the rare mutation could not be rejected. Further, the two youngest individuals studied (19 and 23 years old) had lower mutation frequencies and smaller foci at both mutation sites compared with the older individuals. This implies that the mutation frequency of foci increases as adults age, and thus selection could explain the paternal age effect for Apert syndrome and other genetic conditions. Our results, now including the analysis of two mutations in the same set of testes, suggest that positive selection can increase the relative frequency of premeiotic germ cells carrying such mutations, although individuals who inherit them have reduced fitness. In addition, we compared the anatomical distribution of C758G mutation foci with both new and old data on the C755G mutation in the same testis and found their positions were not correlated with one another. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,13:31    A mutation that's detrimental to the person, but that was advantageous to the success of the sperm that carried it? That is one weird result. Henry

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,22:56    It might be a good idea to pushpin this thread to the top so that it doesn't go below the fold, or whateverthefuck the hip, succinct internet term is for that concept. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Nomad Posts: 311 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,23:30    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 17 2008,22:56) It might be a good idea to pushpin this thread to the top so that it doesn't go below the fold, or whateverthefuck the hip, succinct internet term is for that concept. The hip Internet term would be "sticky", or to describe the process of making the thread sticky, "stickied".  Yes, another word changed into a verb.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,08:59    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 17 2008,23:56) It might be a good idea to pushpin this thread to the top so that it doesn't go below the fold, or whateverthefuck the hip, succinct internet term is for that concept. That's a lovely idea. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,20:30    Here's my current most-recent favorite: Science 9 May 2008: Vol. 320. no. 5877, pp. 811 - 814 DOI: 10.1126/science.1156093 Prev | Table of Contents | Next Reports Regulation of the Cellular Heat Shock Response in Caenorhabditis elegans by Thermosensory Neurons Veena Prahlad, Tyler Cornelius, Richard I. Morimoto* Temperature pervasively affects all cellular processes. In response to a rapid increase in temperature, all cells undergo a heat shock response, an ancient and highly conserved program of stress-inducible gene expression, to reestablish cellular homeostasis. In isolated cells, the heat shock response is initiated by the presence of misfolded proteins and therefore thought to be cell-autonomous. In contrast, we show that within the metazoan Caenorhabditis elegans, the heat shock response of somatic cells is not cell-autonomous but rather depends on the thermosensory neuron, AFD, which senses ambient temperature and regulates temperature-dependent behavior. We propose a model whereby this loss of cell autonomy serves to integrate behavioral, metabolic, and stress-related responses to establish an organismal response to environmental change. here's the link in case anyone can access the archives: HSPs - May 2008

hereoisreal Posts: 745 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,21:56    Lou: >I'm starting this thread as a place for us all to just post links to Just Cool Science articles upon which we happen, and on which discussion may or may not take place.< ………………………………...................... One Cool site: http://www.worldwidetelescope.org/ -------------- 360  miracles and more at: http://www.hereoisreal.com/....eal.com Great news. God’s wife is pregnant! (Rev. 12:5) It's not over till the fat lady sings! (Isa. 54:1 & Zec 9:9)

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,18:53    I haven't located the original PNAS paper yet, but this movie was kind of cool. The accompanying blurb, from LiveScience: Quote The Odorrana tormota frog opens and closes tubes in its ears when listening and calling at night. In this movie, the researchers shined a light under the frog's jaw to illuminate the inside of the mouth. The small circles of light on the side of the frog's head that brighten and dim show the opening and closing of the Eustachian tubes. Credit: National Academies of Science, PNAS (2008) Edited by Lou FCD on July 22 2008,19:54 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,20:42    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 22 2008,18:53) I haven't located the original PNAS paper yet, but this movie was kind of cool. The accompanying blurb, from LiveScience:   Quote The Odorrana tormota frog opens and closes tubes in its ears when listening and calling at night. In this movie, the researchers shined a light under the frog's jaw to illuminate the inside of the mouth. The small circles of light on the side of the frog's head that brighten and dim show the opening and closing of the Eustachian tubes. Credit: National Academies of Science, PNAS (2008) Yup, PNAS is bad about getting papers up on time. In the meantime, I have three that might be of interest (yes, I'm a literature hound) The Ascent of the Abundant: How Mutational Networks Constrain Evolution: Quote Evolution by natural selection is fundamentally shaped by the fitness landscapes in which it occurs. Yet fitness landscapes are vast and complex, and thus we know relatively little about the long-range constraints they impose on evolutionary dynamics. Here, we exhaustively survey the structural landscapes of RNA molecules of lengths 12 to 18 nucleotides, and develop a network model to describe the relationship between sequence and structure. We find that phenotype abundance—the number of genotypes producing a particular phenotype—varies in a predictable manner and critically influences evolutionary dynamics. A study of naturally occurring functional RNA molecules using a new structural statistic suggests that these molecules are biased toward abundant phenotypes. This supports an “ascent of the abundant” hypothesis, in which evolution yields abundant phenotypes even when they are not the most fit. and Species richness and structure of three Neotropical bat assemblages: Quote We compared the assemblages of phyllostomid bats in three Neotropical rainforests with respect to species richness and assemblage structure and suggested a method to validate estimates of species richness for Neotropical bat assemblages based on mist-netting data. The fully inventoried bat assemblage at La Selva Biological Station (LS, 100 m elevation) in Costa Rica was used as a reference site to evaluate seven estimators of species richness. The Jackknife 2 method agreed best with the known bat species richness and thus was used to extrapolate species richness for an Amazonian bat assemblage (Tiputini Biodiversity Station; TBS, 200 m elevation) and an Andean premontane bat assemblage (Podocarpus National Park; BOM, 1000 m elevation) in Ecuador. Our results suggest that more than 100 bat species occur sympatrically at TBS and about 50 bat species coexist at BOM. TBS harbours one of the most species-rich bat assemblages known, including a highly diverse phyllostomid assemblage. Furthermore, we related assemblage structure to large-scale geographical patterns in floral diversity obtained from botanical literature. Assemblage structure of these three phyllostomid assemblages was influenced by differences in floral diversity at the three sites. At the Andean site, where understorey shrubs and epiphytes exhibit the highest diversity, the phyllostomid assemblage is mainly composed of understorey frugivores and nectarivorous species. By contrast, canopy frugivores are most abundant at the Amazonian site, coinciding with the high abundance of canopy fruiting trees. Assemblage patterns of other taxonomic groups also may reflect the geographical distribution patterns of floral elements in the Andean and Amazonian regions.  © 2008 The Linnean Society of London, Biological Journal of the Linnean Society, 2008, 94, 617–629. and The origin of snakes (Serpentes) as seen through eye anatomy Quote Snakes evolved from lizards but have dramatically different eyes. These differences are cited widely as compelling evidence that snakes had fossorial and nocturnal ancestors. Their eyes, however, also exhibit similarities to those of aquatic vertebrates. We used a comparative analysis of ophthalmic data among vertebrate taxa to evaluate alternative hypotheses concerning the ecological origin of the distinctive features of the eyes of snakes. In parsimony and phenetic analyses, eye and orbital characters retrieved groupings more consistent with ecological adaptation rather than accepted phylogenetic relationships. Fossorial lizards and mammals cluster together, whereas snakes are widely separated from these taxa and instead cluster with primitively aquatic vertebrates. This indicates that the eyes of snakes most closely resemble those of aquatic vertebrates, and suggests that the early evolution of snakes occurred in aquatic environments. © 2004 The Linnean Society of London, Biological Journal of the Linnean Society, 2004, 81, 469–482. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Peter Henderson Posts: 298 Joined: Aug. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,09:55    I think this is one of the best science programmes on TV: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science....o.shtml Take a look at May's episode "we just don't know" (a phrase coined by Sir Patrick over the years). A really fascinating discussion about the state of modern cosmology. Really worth watching. Far far better than any of the stupid reality shows that millions of brain dead people seem to watch these days e.g. Big brother, the X factor, America's got tallent, Gerry Springer, etc. etc. etc.

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 25 2008,12:34    Origin of the nucleus and Ran-dependent transport to safeguard ribosome biogenesis in a chimeric cell Quote Background The origin of the nucleus is a central problem about the origin of eukaryotes. The common ancestry of nuclear pore complexes (NPC) and vesicle coating complexes indicates that the nucleus evolved via the modification of a pre-existing endomembrane system. Such an autogenous scenario is cell biologically feasible, but it is not clear what were the selective or neutral mechanisms that had led to the origin of the nuclear compartment. Results A key selective force during the autogenous origin of the nucleus could have been the need to segregate ribosome factories from the cytoplasm where ribosomal proteins (RPs) of the protomitochondrium were synthesized. After its uptake by an anuclear cell the protomitochondrium transferred several of its RP genes to the host genome. Alphaproteobacterial RPs and archaebacterial-type host ribosomes were consequently synthesized in the same cytoplasm. This could have led to the formation of chimeric ribosomes. I propose that the nucleus evolved when the host cell compartmentalised its ribosome factories and the tightly linked genome to reduce ribosome chimerism. This was achieved in successive stages by first evolving karyopherin and RanGTP dependent chaperoning of RPs, followed by the evolution of a membrane network to serve as a diffusion barrier, and finally a hydrogel sieve to ensure selective permeability at nuclear pores. Computer simulations show that a gradual segregation of cytoplasm and nucleoplasm via these steps can progressively reduce ribosome chimerism. Conclusions Ribosome chimerism can provide a direct link between the selective forces for and the mechanisms of evolving nuclear transport and compartmentalisation. The detailed molecular scenario presented here provides a solution to the gradual evolution of nuclear compartmentalization from an anuclear stage. Reviewers This article was reviewed by Eugene V Koonin, Martijn Huynen, Anthony M. Poole and Patrick Forterre. Interesting that according to this, we acquired a nucleus in response to the endosymbiosis with mitochondria. Where does that put plants? -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

nadandoenloprofundo Posts: 1 Joined: July 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 25 2008,14:41    Well, I am not a scientist, however I do enjoy knowing about it. So for the ones that don´t have enough time to read a lot, I post a video. HTML <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ivzs6ji7mMs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ivzs6ji7mMs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

qetzal Posts: 311 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 25 2008,16:51    Here's a very interesting abstract from Cell. Ran across it on one of the xkcd Science forums. Quote Drummond & Wilke (2008), Mistranslation-Induced Protein Misfolding as a Dominant Constraint on Coding-Sequence Evolution. Cell 134:341-352. Strikingly consistent correlations between rates of coding-sequence evolution and gene expression levels are apparent across taxa, but the biological causes behind the selective pressures on coding-sequence evolution remain controversial. Here, we demonstrate conserved patterns of simple covariation between sequence evolution, codon usage, and mRNA level in E. coli, yeast, worm, fly, mouse, and human that suggest that all observed trends stem largely from a unified underlying selective pressure. In metazoans, these trends are strongest in tissues composed of neurons, whose structure and lifetime confer extreme sensitivity to protein misfolding. We propose, and demonstrate using a molecular-level evolutionary simulation, that selection against toxicity of misfolded proteins generated by ribosome errors suffices to create all of the observed covariation. The mechanistic model of molecular evolution that emerges yields testable biochemical predictions, calls into question the use of nonsynonymous-to-synonymous substitution ratios (Ka/Ks) to detect functional selection, and suggests how mistranslation may contribute to neurodegenerative disease. I knew that codon usage correlated with gene expression levels, but I had no idea that evolutionary rates did as well! Unfortunately, I won't have full text access 'til I'm back on work on Mon. Can't wait to read it!

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 25 2008,23:36    Phylogenetic escalation and decline of plant defense strategies Quote As the basal resource in most food webs, plants have evolved myriad strategies to battle consumption by herbivores. Over the past 50 years, plant defense theories have been formulated to explain the remarkable variation in abundance, distribution, and diversity of secondary chemistry and other defensive traits. For example, classic theories of enemy-driven evolutionary dynamics have hypothesized that defensive traits escalate through the diversification process. Despite the fact that macroevolutionary patterns are an explicit part of defense theories, phylogenetic analyses have not been previously attempted to disentangle specific predictions concerning (i) investment in resistance traits, (ii) recovery after damage, and (iii) plant growth rate. We constructed a molecular phylogeny of 38 species of milkweed and tested four major predictions of defense theory using maximum-likelihood methods. We did not find support for the growth-rate hypothesis. Our key finding was a pattern of phyletic decline in the three most potent resistance traits (cardenolides, latex, and trichomes) and an escalation of regrowth ability. Our neontological approach complements more common paleontological approaches to discover directional trends in the evolution of life and points to the importance of natural enemies in the macroevolution of species. The finding of macroevolutionary escalating regowth ability and declining resistance provides a window into the ongoing coevolutionary dynamics between plants and herbivores and suggests a revision of classic plant defense theory. Where plants are primarily consumed by specialist herbivores, regrowth (or tolerance) may be favored over resistance traits during the diversification process. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 26 2008,08:04    High Protein Bindingand Cidal Activity against Penicillin-Resistant S. pneumoniae: A Cefditoren In Vitro Pharmacodynamic Simulation, from PLoS ONE: Quote Background Although protein binding is a reversible phenomenon, it is assumed that antibacterial activity is exclusively exerted by the free (unbound) fraction of antibiotics. Methodology/Principal Findings Activity of cefditoren, a highly protein bound 3rd generation cephalosporin, over 24h after an oral 400 mg cefditoren-pivoxil bid regimen was studied against six S. pneumoniae strains (penicillin/cefditoren MICs; µg/ml): S1 (0.12/0.25), S2 (0.25/0.25), S3 and S4 (0.5/0.5), S5 (1/0.5) and S6 (4/0.5). A computerized pharmacodynamic simulation with media consisting in 75% human serum and 25% broth (mean albumin concentrations = 4.85±0.12 g/dL) was performed. Protein binding was measured. The cumulative percentage of a 24h-period that drug concentrations exceeded the MIC for total (T>MIC) and unbound concentrations (fT>MIC), expressed as percentage of the dosing interval, were determined. Protein binding was 87.1%. Bactericidal activity (?99.9% initial inocula reduction) was obtained against strains S1 and S2 at 24h (T>MIC = 77.6%, fT>MIC = 23.7%). With T>MIC of 61.6% (fT>MIC = 1.7%), reductions against S3 and S4 ranged from 90% to 97% at 12h and 24h; against S5, reduction was 45.1% at 12h and up to 85.0% at 24h; and against S6, reduction was 91.8% at 12h, but due to regrowth of 52.9% at 24h. Cefditoren physiological concentrations exerted antibacterial activity against strains exhibiting MICs of 0.25 and 0.5 µg/ml under protein binding conditions similar to those in humans. Conclusions/Significance The results of this study suggest that, from the pharmacodynamic perspective, the presence of physiological albumin concentrations may not preclude antipneumococcal activity of highly bound cephalosporins as cefditoren. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,17:06    My wife (who is Japanese) brought home a DVD the other day of a Japanese game show called "The Most Useful School in the World". It's a mildly educational show that is packaged inside a quiz show format that could only be dreamed up, and survive, in Japan. In this episode, one segment was on iguanas of the Galapagos islands. The show introduced as the guest "expert" a Japanese doctor who had become a nature photographer. Interestingly, they also showed Charles Darwin's picture during the segment intro and talked about evolution. Imagine a game show trying that in the US? The doctor showed pictures of the land iguanas eating prickly pear cactus, and showed that in areas with abundant iguanas, the prickly pear grew on a short pedestal base putting fleshy parts out of reach of the iguanas, while in areas without a lot of iguanas, it grew directly on the ground. This was given as an example of evolution. The next film showed some of the adaptations of the sea iguanas, and asked the contestants to guess which feature had been modified the most in going to sea. The correct answer (according to the show) was that the sea iguana's claws were longer and sharper, the better to hold them against strong currents under water. (They showed great footage of the iguanas feeding underwater, gnawing seaweed off of rocks.) Now the weird part was that they claimed that recent weather changes that had increased the foliage on the islands had given rise to the opportunity for some form of hybridization between land and sea iguanas. The result was a land iguana with claws strong enough to climb the pedestal of a prickly pear, and thereby acquire more resources. Since this wasn't a peer reviewed game show, I was leery of accepting this story at face value, but I am trying to run down some facts. I thought I'd bring it to your attention as an example of how evolution fares in the pop culture of other countries, and also a cool example of real time evolution (if true). If I can find the show on YouTube or similar Japanese site, I will send a link. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

qetzal Posts: 311 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 29 2008,00:23    I had a chance to read the Cell paper I mentioned a few days back. I thought it was fascinating, and I highly recommend it. Basically, it appears that a number of things correlate with mRNA levels across species from E. coli, yeast, worms, flies, mice, to humans. These include the fraction of optimal codon usage (i.e., the fraction of codons that correspond to the most abundant tRNA for that amino acid), the evolutionary non-synonymous substitution rate, the synonymous substitution rate, and even the relative rate of transitions to transversions. The authors use principal component analysis to argue that all of these are related to one main underlying feature. They then argue that this feature is the need to minimize translation errors that lead to protein misfolding. In essence, they argue that misfolded proteins are cytotoxic, presumably in rough proportion to their abundance. For low abundance proteins, occasional misfolding contributes little to the total cytotoxic burden in the cell. But for high abundance proteins, even rare misfolding may be detrimental. Thus, they argue, highly expressed genes need to use optimal codons to minimize translation errors. Even synonymous substitutions in a highly expressed gene can be detrimental, because they will tend to change an optimal codon to a suboptimal codon. This will increase the rate of translational error, resulting in more misfolded proteins, and greater cytotoxicity. They go on to show how all of the observed correlations with gene expression level can be explained by this underlying mechanism. They do simulated evolution studies in silico that reproduce the observed correlations, but only if they include a cost associated with protein misfolding. Then they go a step further and suggest that this effect shows tissue specific features in complex organisms. For example, they suggest that neural tissue may be particularly sensitive to cytotoxicity from misfolded proteins (think Alzheimer's, Parkinsons, CJD, etc.). They note that brain-specific genes appear to evolve relatively slowly as a group, and explain how their hypothesis accounts for this. The authors suggest that, if they're right, this has wide ranging implications for our understanding of evolution. Among other things, we would need to take into account how this affects synonymous vs. non-synonymous substituion rates when estimating divergence based on molecular data. Here's what I really liked about this paper. 1) It proposes a new mechanism that has fundamental implications for how evolution works and is constrained. (At least, it's new to me; an editorial in the same issue of Cell seems to think it's potentially quite important as well.) 2) It provides a unifying explanation for a number of seemingly unconnected observations. (It even provides possible insight into the mechanisms of type 2 diabetes!) 3) The authors make multiple predictions based on their proposal, all of which can be tested experimentally. To me, this is a stellar example of how science really works. The contrast with ID is stark.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 29 2008,06:35    Quote Sexy People Sound Better By Greg Soltis, LiveScience Staff posted: 16 July 2008 06:54 am ET People with voices deemed sexy and attractive tend to have greater body symmetry upon close inspection, suggesting that what we hear in a person can greatly affect what we see in them. "The sound of a person's voice reveals a considerable amount of biological information," said Susan Hughes, an evolutionary psychologist from Albright College in Reading, Pa. "It can reflect the mate value of a person." Hughes, whose new study is detailed in the June 2008 edition of the Journal of Nonverbal Behavior, cautions that an attractive voice does not necessarily indicate that this person has an attractive face. Greg was never on the CB.

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 30 2008,07:47    Here is one: Dinosaurian Soft Tissues Interpreted as Bacterial Biofilms Quote A scanning electron microscope survey was initiated to determine if the previously reported findings of “dinosaurian soft tissues” could be identified in situ within the bones. The results obtained allowed a reinterpretation of the formation and preservation of several types of these “tissues” and their content. Mineralized and non-mineralized coatings were found extensively in the porous trabecular bone of a variety of dinosaur and mammal species across time. They represent bacterial biofilms common throughout nature. Biofilms form endocasts and once dissolved out of the bone, mimic real blood vessels and osteocytes. Bridged trails observed in biofilms indicate that a previously viscous film was populated with swimming bacteria. Carbon dating of the film points to its relatively modern origin. A comparison of infrared spectra of modern biofilms with modern collagen and fossil bone coatings suggests that modern biofilms share a closer molecular make-up than modern collagen to the coatings from fossil bones. Blood cell size iron-oxygen spheres found in the vessels were identified as an oxidized form of formerly pyritic framboids. Our observations appeal to a more conservative explanation for the structures found preserved in fossil bone. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,19:36    Phoenix Mars Team Opens Window on Scientific Process So the Phoenix mission team has found evidence of perchlorate salts in the Martian soil, but instead of waiting for the complete analysis, they're letting the public in on the process. Quote "The Phoenix project has decided to take an unusual step" in talking about the research when its scientists are only about half-way through the data collection phase and have not yet had time to complete data analysis or perform needed laboratory work, said Phoenix principal investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson. Scientists are still at the stage where they are examining multiple hypotheses, given evidence that the soil contains perchlorate. "We decided to show the public science in action because of the extreme interest in the Phoenix mission, which is searching for a habitable environment on the northern plains of Mars," Smith added. "Right now, we don't know whether finding perchlorate is good news or bad news for possible life on Mars." More at the link. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,20:24    Paging Dr. Egnor! Metabolic changes in schizophrenia and human brain evolution Quote Background Despite decades of research, the molecular changes responsible for the evolution of human cognitive abilities remain unknown. Comparative evolutionary studies provide detailed information about DNA sequence and mRNA expression differences between humans and other primates but, in the absence of other information, it has proved very difficult to identify molecular pathways relevant to human cognition. Results Here, we compare changes in gene expression and metabolite concentrations in the human brain and compare them to the changes seen in a disorder known to affect human cognitive abilities, schizophrenia. We find that both genes and metabolites relating to energy metabolism and energy-expensive brain functions are altered in schizophrenia and, at the same time, appear to have changed rapidly during recent human evolution, probably as a result of positive selection. Conclusions Our findings, along with several previous studies, suggest that the evolution of human cognitive abilities was accompanied by adaptive changes in brain metabolism, potentially pushing the human brain to the limit of its metabolic capabilities. The pdf is freely downloadable. On a related note: A Novel Molecular Solution for Ultraviolet Light Detection in Caenorhabditis elegans Quote For many organisms the ability to transduce light into cellular signals is crucial for survival. Light stimulates DNA repair and metabolism changes in bacteria, avoidance responses in single-cell organisms, attraction responses in plants, and both visual and nonvisual perception in animals. Despite these widely differing responses, in all of nature there are only six known families of proteins that can transduce light. Although the roundworm Caenorhabditis elegans has none of the known light transduction systems, we show here that C. elegans strongly accelerates its locomotion in response to blue or shorter wavelengths of light, with maximal responsiveness to ultraviolet light. Our data suggest that C. elegans uses this light response to escape the lethal doses of sunlight that permeate its habitat. Short-wavelength light drives locomotion by bypassing two critical signals, cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) and diacylglycerol (DAG), that neurons use to shape and control behaviors. C. elegans mutants lacking these signals are paralyzed and unresponsive to harsh physical stimuli in ambient light, but short-wavelength light rapidly rescues their paralysis and restores normal levels of coordinated locomotion. This light response is mediated by LITE-1, a novel ultraviolet light receptor that acts in neurons and is a member of the invertebrate Gustatory receptor (Gr) family. Heterologous expression of the receptor in muscle cells is sufficient to confer light responsiveness on cells that are normally unresponsive to light. Our results reveal a novel molecular solution for ultraviolet light detection and an unusual sensory modality in C. elegans that is unlike any previously described light response in any organism. I haven't read this later one yet but PhysOrg says it has something to do with depression, schizophrenia and insomnia in humans... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 07 2008,20:20    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth....106.xml

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 07 2008,21:43    Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 07 2008,20:20) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth....106.xml Awesome! More here This is somewhat off topic but is really cool nonetheless. The University of Utah has a "Learn Genetics" website. In one of the activities you can learn to extract DNA in the privacy of your own kitchen! All it takes is a blender and some common household chemicals... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 09 2008,09:12    Deadman posted this here, in its own thread, but it makes a nice addition here: Quote (Deadman_932 @ Aug. 09 2008,09:59) Green et al. (2008) A Complete Neandertal Mitochondrial Genome Sequence Determined by High-Throughput Sequencing. Cell, 2008; 134 (3): 416 Quote The complete mitochondrial genome of a 38,000-year-old Neanderthal has been sequenced...Analysis of the new sequence confirms that the mitochondria of Neanderthals falls outside the variation found in humans today, offering no evidence of admixture between the two lineages although it remains a possibility. It also shows that the last common ancestor of Neanderthals and humans lived about 660,000 years ago, give or take 140,000 years. Science Daily write-up: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080807130824.htm Journal article abstract: http://www.cell.com/content/article/abstract?uid=PIIS0092867408007733 The full article .PDF is available here: http://download.cell.com/pdfs/0092-8674/PIIS0092867408007733.pdf It’s a nice paper. Cheers! -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 09 2008,20:11    I was looking for a little help and thought this was the most appropriate place.  I'm looking for some current treatment of the contrast that introns do not appear in bacterial species as opposed to eukaryotics.  I'm interested in evolutionary or mechanistic hypotheses.  I would prefer something you guys have actually read and evaluated as opposed to random links.  Thanks in advance for any assistance you guys can provide. P.S. it goes without saying, the more current the better, thanks.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 09 2008,22:04    Uh, bacterial introns (Class I and II) are known, just oddly distributed. This is not MY field of specialization, but here's a couple of recent articles that I've read online. The first deals with hypotheses..eh, fairly heavily. Each has references and a list of recent articles that cite it:     ----------------- Edgell, David R.; Marlene Belfort, and David A. Shub (2000) Barriers to Intron Promiscuity in Bacteria. Journal of Bacteriology, October 2000, p. 5281-5289, Vol. 182, No. 19 http://jb.asm.org/cgi/content/full/182/19/5281 ----------------- Tourasse, N. J., Kolsto, A.-B. (2008). Survey of group I and group II introns in 29 sequenced genomes of the Bacillus cereus group: insights into their spread and evolution. Nucleic Acids Res 36: 4529-4548 http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/36/14/4529   Quote Group I and group II introns are well-known genetic elements that were discovered >20 years ago. They are catalytic RNAs (ribozymes) that are capable of self-splicing, i.e. excising themselves out of RNA transcripts and ligating their flanking RNA sequences (hereafter referred as exons). They are also mobile elements as they typically encode proteins that allow them to invade genomic sequences (1–10). Introns can spread into cognate (homologous) intron-less DNA sites, a process called homing, or insert into ectopic (novel) genomic locations, a process called transposition, which usually occurs at lower frequencies. Altogether, these elements are found in all three domains of life: group I introns are present in bacteria, bacteriophages and eukaryotes (organellar and nuclear genomes), while group II introns are present in bacteria, archaea and eukaryotic organelles ----------------- Lixin Dai and Steven Zimmerly (2002)  Compilation and analysis of group II intron insertions in bacterial genomes: evidence for retroelement behavior. Nucleic Acids Research,  30:5, pp. 1091-1102.   http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/30/5/1091 ETA: there's some new citations on the intron wiki page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intron , many of which deal with theories of evolutionary origins. Nope, I haven't read them yet, don't have the time at the moment. Hope it helps, though. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2008,09:11    thank you much

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2008,13:34    That dang designer sure keeps busy.  Here is a report of a new bird species discovered in Africa. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2008,19:33    Anyone read "Decoding the Universe" by Seife?  I picked it up today and I'm wondering if it's worth the effort.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2008,14:37    http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/science_news/4279923.html

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2008,14:49    Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 29 2008,14:37) http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/science_news/4279923.html Cool! I hope DT gives you a hat-tip when he links to that, he loves nanofabrication stuff. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2008,10:06    Rapid Antagonistic Coevolution Between Primary And Secondary Sexual Characters In Horned Beetles Here is the abstract:   Quote Different structures may compete during development for a shared and limited pool of resources to sustain growth and differentiation. The resulting resource allocation trade-offs have the potential to alter both ontogenetic outcomes and evolutionary trajectories. However, little is known about the evolutionary causes and consequences of resource allocation trade-offs in natural populations. Here, we explore the significance of resource allocation trade-offs between primary and secondary sexual traits in shaping early morphological divergences between four recently separated populations of the horned beetle Onthophagus taurus as well as macroevolutionary divergence patterns across 10 Onthophagus species. We show that resource allocation trade-offs leave a strong signature in morphological divergence patterns both within and between species. Furthermore, our results suggest that genital divergence may, under certain circumstances, occur as a byproduct of evolutionary changes in secondary sexual traits. Given the importance of copulatory organ morphology for reproductive isolation our findings begin to raise the possibility that secondary sexual trait evolution may promote speciation as a byproduct. We discuss the implications of our results on the causes and consequences of resource allocation trade-offs in insects. Unfortunately a subscription is required for the entire article. link DOI:http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00448.x -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2008,12:03    John Bartlett ( "johnnyb" on UD) and I went back and forth a few times on his own blog after his recent post on UD. As part of that conversation, I found this paper by Langdon on the Halting problem. The basic result is that random programs don't halt, as the program length grows larger. This upends a favorite creationist canard about computer programming, that programs are finely tuned, one error will stop them, yada yada yada. These are teleolgical arguments. It is hard to imagine a universe in which Windows ME could either evolve or survive, and so much the better! BTW, Bartlett showed himself to be relatively Avida-friendly, so his posting rights under the big sweatertent of DDrr.. Dembski and Scooter might be threatened in the future. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2008,13:19    Anybody have PNAS access? I'd like to read this paper, titled Genetic variation in the vasopressin receptor 1a gene (AVPR1A) associates with pair-bonding behavior in humans. Abstract   Quote Pair-bonding has been suggested to be a critical factor in the evolutionary development of the social brain. The brain neuropeptide arginine vasopressin (AVP) exerts an important influence on pair-bonding behavior in voles. There is a strong association between a polymorphic repeat sequence in the 5? flanking region of the gene (avpr1a) encoding one of the AVP receptor subtypes (V1aR), and proneness for monogamous behavior in males of this species. It is not yet known whether similar mechanisms are important also for human pair-bonding. Here, we report an association between one of the human AVPR1A repeat polymorphisms (RS3) and traits reflecting pair-bonding behavior in men, including partner bonding, perceived marital problems, and marital status, and show that the RS3 genotype of the males also affects marital quality as perceived by their spouses. These results suggest an association between a single gene and pair-bonding behavior in humans, and indicate that the well characterized influence of AVP on pair-bonding in voles may be of relevance also for humans. Constance Holden, the reporter who wrote the Science blurb, done pissed me off seems to have made some interesting extrapolations from the research, given the abstract. I'd like to read the paper for myself and then possibly blog her ass back into the bronze age to compare my reading of the paper to hers. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2008,19:07    This is interesting, and given the subject, relevant: Random Amino Acid Mutations and Protein Misfolding Lead to Shannon Limit in Sequence-Structure Communication Here is the abstract: Quote The transmission of genomic information from coding sequence to protein structure during protein synthesis is subject to stochastic errors. To analyze transmission limits in the presence of spurious errors, Shannon's noisy channel theorem is applied to a communication channel between amino acid sequences and their structures established from a large-scale statistical analysis of protein atomic coordinates. While Shannon's theorem confirms that in close to native conformations information is transmitted with limited error probability, additional random errors in sequence (amino acid substitutions) and in structure (structural defects) trigger a decrease in communication capacity toward a Shannon limit at 0.010 bits per amino acid symbol at which communication breaks down. In several controls, simulated error rates above a critical threshold and models of unfolded structures always produce capacities below this limiting value. Thus an essential biological system can be realistically modeled as a digital communication channel that is (a) sensitive to random errors and (b) restricted by a Shannon error limit. This forms a novel basis for predictions consistent with observed rates of defective ribosomal products during protein synthesis, and with the estimated excess of mutual information in protein contact potentials. I haven't read it yet, but it is open access. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2008,22:49    That leaves me wondering if one DNA three-pair code could be more reliable than another for the same amino acid? Henry

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2008,22:29    Natural Selection on a Major Armor Gene in Threespine Stickleback Here is the abstract: Quote Experimental estimates of the effects of selection on genes determining adaptive traits add to our understanding of the mechanisms of evolution. We measured selection on genotypes of the Ectodysplasin locus, which underlie differences in lateral plates in threespine stickleback fish. A derived allele (low) causing reduced plate number has been fixed repeatedly after marine stickleback colonized freshwater from the sea, where the ancestral allele (complete) predominates. We transplanted marine sticklebacks carrying both alleles to freshwater ponds and tracked genotype frequencies over a generation. The low allele increased in frequency once lateral plates developed, most likely via a growth advantage. Opposing selection at the larval stage and changing dominance for fitness throughout life suggest either that the gene affects additional traits undergoing selection or that linked loci also are affecting fitness. I have a copy, email me at afarensis1@sbcglobal.net if you would like one. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2008,10:32    New study: Bad science writing gene found in people. Edited by Dr.GH on Sep. 05 2008,08:32 -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2008,17:28    http://opa.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=5980 Yale Researchers Find “Junk DNA” May Have Triggered Key Evolutionary Changes in Human Thumb and Foot

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2008,17:30    Quote (Dr.GH @ Sep. 05 2008,11:32) New study: Bad science writing gene found in people. Canadian Writer Found to Have Dozens of Extra Mutant Copies of Said Gene

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,10:21    A consensus on the evolution of the genetic code from 2004. Nice job reminding everyone why Urey-Miller experiments are very relevant and useful And the ID prediction is ... -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,15:53    Move over Flagellum - PacMan is here! Linky - http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080116/full/news.2008.444.html PSST! - Don't let Dembski or Behe see this - they'll probably get a couple more bad books out of it. "Gee - It Looks Designed".  "No Free PacMan", and then the endless bad commentary from O'Dreary, and of course, the McCain campaign claiming sexism, because it's not Ms. Packman. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,16:19    A Study on Whistles — And Only Whistles A study claims dophins "decrease vocal output" in larger groups, but do their data support that? -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,16:36    Quote Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life A team of biologists and chemists is closing in on bringing non-living matter to life. It's not as Frankensteinian as it sounds. Instead, a lab led by Jack Szostak, a molecular biologist at Harvard Medical School, is building simple cell models that can almost be called life. Szostak's protocells are built from fatty molecules that can trap bits of nucleic acids that contain the source code for replication. Combined with a process that harnesses external energy from the sun or chemical reactions, they could form a self-replicating, evolving system that satisfies the conditions of life, but isn't anything like life on earth now, but might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe.   Linky

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,17:24    Friendly Invaders A carl zimmer NYT article.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,06:49    An enzymatic vestigial function discovered Quote "In creating these simulations of IMPDH, we observed something that hadn't been seen before," Yang said. "Previously, enzymes were believed to have a single 'pathway' through which they deliver catalytic agents to biological cells in order to bring about metabolic changes. But with IMPDH, we determined that there was a second pathway that also was used to cause these chemical transformations. The second pathway didn't operate as efficiently as the first one, but it was active nevertheless." -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,07:12    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 11 2008,06:49) An enzymatic vestigial function discovered Quote "In creating these simulations of IMPDH, we observed something that hadn't been seen before," Yang said. "Previously, enzymes were believed to have a single 'pathway' through which they deliver catalytic agents to biological cells in order to bring about metabolic changes. But with IMPDH, we determined that there was a second pathway that also was used to cause these chemical transformations. The second pathway didn't operate as efficiently as the first one, but it was active nevertheless." [GilDodgen] A backup system!  Any good programmer would have designed it this way!  ID predicted this! It is only the blind materialist dogmatist Nazi Darwinist chance worshippers that refuse to acknowledge this compelling evidence for intelligent design. [/GilDodgen] -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2008,19:37    Viruses Collectively Decide Bacterial Cell's Fate ScienceDaily (Sep. 15, 2008) — A new study suggests that bacteria-infecting viruses – called phages – can make collective decisions about whether to kill host cells immediately after infection or enter a latent state to remain within the host cell. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080915121231.htm

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2008,20:32    Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 15 2008,19:37) Viruses Collectively Decide Bacterial Cell's Fate ScienceDaily (Sep. 15, 2008) — A new study suggests that bacteria-infecting viruses – called phages – can make collective decisions about whether to kill host cells immediately after infection or enter a latent state to remain within the host cell. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080915121231.htm Wow!  That just screams intelligence.  One more for ID! ID! ID! ID! -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2008,20:37    That's actually really cool, in a creepy sort of way.  The idea would seem to generate whole new avenues of research with medicinal uses and treatment in mind.  Or at least that would be the case if all of modern science wasn't a lying ball of big liar guys. -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 16 2008,03:06    THE FOURTH QUADRANT: A MAP OF THE LIMITS OF STATISTICS http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/taleb08/taleb08_index.html

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 16 2008,21:48    http://www.nytimes.com/2008....ted=all Quote But David B. Goldstein of Duke University, a leading young population geneticist known partly for his research into the genetic roots of Jewish ancestry, says the effort to nail down the genetics of most common diseases is not working. “There is absolutely no question,” he said, “that for the whole hope of personalized medicine, the news has been just about as bleak as it could be.”

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 16 2008,22:19    Two open access articles from PNAS. First: Molecular signatures of ribosomal evolution Here is the abstract: Quote Ribosomal signatures, idiosyncrasies in the ribosomal RNA (rRNA) and/or proteins, are characteristic of the individual domains of life. As such, insight into the early evolution of the domains can be gained from a comparative analysis of their respective signatures in the translational apparatus. In this work, we identify signatures in both the sequence and structure of the rRNA and analyze their contributions to the universal phylogenetic tree using both sequence- and structure-based methods. Domain-specific ribosomal proteins can be considered signatures in their own right. Although it is commonly assumed that they developed after the universal ribosomal proteins, we present evidence that at least one may have been present before the divergence of the organismal lineages. We find correlations between the rRNA signatures and signatures in the ribosomal proteins showing that the rRNA signatures coevolved with both domain-specific and universal ribosomal proteins. Finally, we show that the genomic organization of the universal ribosomal components contains these signatures as well. From these studies, we propose the ribosomal signatures are remnants of an evolutionary-phase transition that occurred as the cell lineages began to coalesce and so should be reflected in corresponding signatures throughout the fabric of the cell and its genome. Second: Stage-specific predator species help each other to persist while competing for a single prey The abstract: Quote Prey in natural communities are usually shared by many predator species. How predators coexist while competing for the same prey is one of the fundamental questions in ecology. Here, we show that competing predator species may not only coexist on a single prey but even help each other to persist if they specialize on different life history stages of the prey. By changing the prey size distribution, a predator species may in fact increase the amount of prey available for its competitor. Surprisingly, a predator may not be able to persist at all unless its competitor is also present. The competitor thus significantly increases the range of conditions for which a particular predator can persist. This “emergent facilitation” is a long-term, population-level effect that results from asymmetric increases in the rate of prey maturation and reproduction when predation relaxes competition among prey. Emergent facilitation explains observations of correlated increases of predators on small and large conspecific prey as well as concordance in their distribution patterns. Our results suggest that emergent facilitation may promote the occurrence of complex, stable, community food webs and that persistence of these communities could critically depend on diversity within predator guilds. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Peter Henderson Posts: 298 Joined: Aug. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2008,19:03    This is what makes science so fascinating: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7543776.stm Quote A new class of cosmic object has been found by a Dutch schoolteacher, through a project which allows the public to take part in astronomy research online. Hanny Van Arkel, 25, came across the strange gaseous blob while using the Galaxy Zoo website to help classify galaxies in telescope images. http://www.physorg.com/news137157808.html Quote Scientists working at telescopes around the world and with satellites in space were asked to take a look at the mysterious Voorwerp. "What we saw was really a mystery," said Schawinski. "The Voorwerp didn't contain any stars." Rather, it was made entirely of gas so hot — about 10,000 Celsius — that the astronomers felt it had to be illuminated by something powerful. They will soon use the Hubble Space Telescope to get a closer look. Since there was no obvious source at hand in the Voorwerp itself, the team looked to find the source of illumination around the Voorwerp, and soon turned to the nearby galaxy IC 2497. "We think that in the recent past the galaxy IC 2497 hosted an enormously bright quasar," Schawinski explains. "Because of the vast scale of the galaxy and the Voorwerp, light from that past still lights up the nearby Voorwerp even though the quasar shut down sometime in the past 100,000 years, and the galaxy's black hole itself has gone quiet." "From the point of view of the Voorwerp, the galaxy looks as bright as it would have before the black hole turned off – it's this light echo that has been frozen in time for us to observe," said Chris Lintott, a co-organizer of Galaxy Zoo at Oxford University, UK. "It's rather like examining the scene of a crime where, although we can't see them, we know the culprit must be lurking somewhere nearby in the shadows." Similar light echoes have been seen around supernovae that exploded decades or centuries ago. Makes a nonsense of the "where you there" argument. I'm always surprised why more scientists don't use astronomy/cosmology as proof of an ancient universe when confronting YECs.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,18:13    At Science: Quote Back when our own solar system was still forming, collisions between young planets were commonplace. In fact, astronomers think our moon is the product of an encounter between Earth and a Mars-sized body. But other than occasional and relatively small-scale smash-ups, such as Comet Shoemaker-Levy's 21 pieces pelting Jupiter in 1994, no nearby worlds have been destroyed for billions of years. Not so in a binary star system called BD+20 307, located about 300 light-years away in the constellation Aries. In 2004, a team of astronomers discovered a huge cloud of dust encircling what they thought was a young star. Now measurements using NASA's orbiting Chandra X-ray Observatory and Tennessee State University's automated ground-based instrument have revealed two old stars, each about the same age as the sun, locked in close orbit. That means the dust must have come from a collision between two planetary bodies, a collision that must have happened within the past 100,000 years or so--or even more recently, says astronomer Benjamin Zuckerman of the University of California, Los Angeles, a member of the 2004 team who led the new study. More at the link, paper in December's The Astrophysical Journal. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,18:41    From PNAS: Quote Abstract Two coastal sites in Gibraltar, Vanguard and Gorham's Caves, located at Governor's Beach on the eastern side of the Rock, are especially relevant to the study of Neanderthals. Vanguard Cave provides evidence of marine food supply (mollusks, seal, dolphin, and fish). Further evidence of marine mammal remains was also found in the occupation levels at Gorham's Cave associated with Upper Paleolithic and Mousterian technologies [Finlayson C, et al. (2006) Nature 443:850–853]. The stratigraphic sequence of Gibraltar sites allows us to compare behaviors and subsistence strategies of Neanderthals during the Middle Paleolithic observed at Vanguard and Gorham's Cave sites. This evidence suggests that such use of marine resources was not a rare behavior and represents focused visits to the coast and estuaries. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,18:46    Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 25 2008,18:41) From PNAS: Quote Abstract Two coastal sites in Gibraltar, Vanguard and Gorham's Caves, located at Governor's Beach on the eastern side of the Rock, are especially relevant to the study of Neanderthals. Vanguard Cave provides evidence of marine food supply (mollusks, seal, dolphin, and fish). Further evidence of marine mammal remains was also found in the occupation levels at Gorham's Cave associated with Upper Paleolithic and Mousterian technologies [Finlayson C, et al. (2006) Nature 443:850–853]. The stratigraphic sequence of Gibraltar sites allows us to compare behaviors and subsistence strategies of Neanderthals during the Middle Paleolithic observed at Vanguard and Gorham's Cave sites. This evidence suggests that such use of marine resources was not a rare behavior and represents focused visits to the coast and estuaries. I have this paper if anybody wants a copy. Email me at afarensis1@sbcglobal.net -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,18:50    I just popped back in as I'm wading through my feed reader and was about to plug some guy's blog who wrote about this. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,19:07    Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 25 2008,18:50) I just popped back in as I'm wading through my feed reader and was about to plug some guy's blog who wrote about this. Aww, I like this one better because I mention the benefits of maritime exploitation a few days ahead of the publication of the Gibraltar paper. Serendipity can be a wonderful thing... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,22:11    Going up, up, up? Want a lift? Quote Now the finest scientific minds of Japan are devoting themselves to cracking the greatest sci-fi vision of all: the space elevator. Man has so far conquered space by painfully and inefficiently blasting himself out of the atmosphere but the 21st century should bring a more leisurely ride to the final frontier. Japan hopes to turn sci-fi into reality with elevator to the stars RidingHigh_402601a.jpg Henry

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,23:32    Rocks may be oldest on earth

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,08:41    I just thought I'd mention BOINC just on the tiny chance that you chaps and chappesses were not already well aware of it. Sign up and do science in your spare (computer) time by doing nothing! Yay! Louis This message was brought to you by Slackers For Science, the letter Q and the number 11. Slackers for Science is a not for profit organisation that will be going down the pub later seeing as it's POETS day. The views contained within might reflect those of someone somewhere, but not necessarily anyone you care about -------------- Bye.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,20:34    "BOINC"? Not the best choice of name, given it's similarity to "boink". Henry

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 28 2008,10:52    Since we're learning about cell structure, and specifically the structure of the plasma membrane, in Biology class right now, this caught my eye, from PLoS ONE: Anti-Plasmodium Activity of Angiotensin II and Related Synthetic Peptides Quote Abstract Plasmodium species are the causative agents of malaria, the most devastating insect-borne parasite of human populations. Finding and developing new drugs for malaria treatment and prevention is the goal of much research. Angiotensins I and II (ang I and ang II) and six synthetic related peptides designated Vaniceres 1-6 (VC1-VC6) were assayed in vivo and in vitro for their effects on the development of the avian parasite, Plasmodium gallinaceum. Ang II and VC5 injected into the thoraces of the insects reduced mean intensities of infection in the mosquito salivary glands by 88% and 76%, respectively. Although the mechanism(s) of action is not completely understood, we have demonstrated that these peptides disrupt selectively the P.gallinaceum cell membrane. Additionally, incubation in vitro of sporozoites with VC5 reduced the infectivity of the parasites to their vertebrate host. VC5 has no observable agonist effects on vertebrates, and this makes it a promising drug for malaria prevention and chemotherapy. (My emphasis) Pretty cool, especially given the timing. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,20:36    fat baby girls and breast cancer

Richard Simons Posts: 425 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,21:07    Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 29 2008,20:36) fat baby girls and breast cancer The title is misleading as it is size at birth, including weight and length, that they were investigating, not the fat on chubby 6-month-olds. -------------- All sweeping statements are wrong.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2008,12:24    Quote Small Asteroid Predicted to Cause Brilliant Fireball over Northern Sudan Don Yeomans NASA/JPL Near-Earth Object Program Office October 6, 2008 A very small, few-meter sized asteroid, designated 2008 TC3, was found Monday morning by the Catalina Sky Survey from their observatory near Tucson Arizona. Preliminary orbital computations by the Minor Planet Center suggested an atmospheric entry of this object within a day of discovery. JPL confirmed that an atmospheric impact will very likely occur during early morning twilight over northern Sudan, north-eastern Africa, at 2:46 UT Tuesday morning. The fireball, which could be brilliant, will travel west to east (from azimuth = 281 degrees) at a relative atmospheric impact velocity of 12.8 km/s and arrive at a very low angle (19 degrees) to the local horizon. It is very unlikely that any sizable fragments will survive passage through the Earth's atmosphere. Objects of this size would be expected to enter the Earth's atmosphere every few months on average but this is the first time such an event has been predicted ahead of time. Update - 6:45 PM PDT (1 hour prior to atmospheric entry) Since its discovery barely a day ago, 2008 TC3 has been observed extensively by astronomers around the world, and as a result, our orbit predictions have become very precise. We estimate that this object will enter the Earth's atmosphere at around 2:45:28 UTC and reach maximum deceleration at around 2:45:54 UTC. These times are uncertain by +/- 15 seconds or so. The time at which any fragments might reach the ground depends a great deal on the physical properties of the object, but should be around 2:46:20 UTC +/- 40 seconds. http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news159.html -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2008,12:51    Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 27 2008,02:34) "BOINC"? Not the best choice of name, given it's similarity to "boink". Henry But surely you must know from "Calvin and Hobbes" that scientific progress goes "boink"? Or in this case "boinc". Do your part people! (The docking and protein folding studies are of particular interest, as is the quantum chemistry one. Fascinating stuff). Louis -------------- Bye.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2008,15:03    Quote JPL confirmed that an atmospheric impact will very likely occur during early morning twilight over northern Sudan, north-eastern Africa, at 2:46 UT Tuesday morning. The sky is falling!11!! The sky is fallling!one!! Quote It is very unlikely that any sizable fragments will survive passage through the Earth's atmosphere. Oh. Never mind.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2008,15:45    http://scienceblogs.com/neuroph....ied.php prion infection method identified.

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2008,17:41    Quote (Louis @ Oct. 07 2008,13:51) Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 27 2008,02:34) "BOINC"? Not the best choice of name, given it's similarity to "boink". Henry But surely you must know from "Calvin and Hobbes" that scientific progress goes "boink"? Or in this case "boinc". Do your part people! (The docking and protein folding studies are of particular interest, as is the quantum chemistry one. Fascinating stuff). Louis I've got the climate modeling one running on my desktop. -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2008,18:04    I posted this in the UD thread, but it here might be a better place for it. http://www.astroengine.com/?p=1382 Evidence for Correlations Between Nuclear Decay Rates and Earth-Sun Distance Searching for modifications to the exponential radioactive decay law with the Cassini spacecraft Weird stuff.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,10:35    Yes, *ahem*. Quote People like you find it so easy, by Roo Reynolds -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,15:42    How the Turtle got its Shell Irreducible Complexity Failure #10,193,883,469,093.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,00:25    Chains of arthropods from half a billion years ago.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 13 2008,13:30    Quote Chains of arthropods from half a billion years ago. But did they find any missing links?

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 13 2008,22:09    How ships like The Beagle dealt with lightening

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 15 2008,00:39    A Guiding Glow to Track the Movement of Proteins

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2008,05:52    Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 15 2008,01:39) A Guiding Glow to Track the Movement of Proteins That's just cool. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2008,11:41    Dude... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news....ts.html Far out. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2008,18:36    Unsustainable resource depletion began 10,000 years ago. Interesting article. Not sure how valid the argument is.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2008,18:58    I think i'm going to give that its own thread for visibility. I'm curious what some people here have to say about it.

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2008,21:19    Copy number variation and evolution in humans and chimpanzees. Here is the abstract: Quote Copy number variants (CNVs) underlie many aspects of human phenotypic diversity and provide the raw material for gene duplication and gene family expansion. However, our understanding of their evolutionary significance remains limited. We performed comparative genomic hybridization on a single human microarray platform to identify CNVs among the genomes of 30 humans and 30 chimpanzees as well as fixed copy number differences between species. We found that human and chimpanzee CNVs occur in orthologous genomic regions far more often than expected by chance and are strongly associated with the presence of highly homologous intrachromosomal segmental duplications. By adapting population genetic analyses for use with copy number data, we identified functional categories of genes that have likely evolved under purifying or positive selection for copy number changes. In particular, duplications and deletions of genes with inflammatory response and cell proliferation functions may have been fixed by positive selection and involved in the adaptive phenotypic differentiation of humans and chimpanzees. Initial sequence of the chimpanzee genome and comparison with the human genome. Here is the abstract: Quote Here we present a draft genome sequence of the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). Through comparison with the human genome, we have generated a largely complete catalogue of the genetic differences that have accumulated since the human and chimpanzee species diverged from our common ancestor, constituting approximately thirty-five million single-nucleotide changes, five million insertion/deletion events, and various chromosomal rearrangements. We use this catalogue to explore the magnitude and regional variation of mutational forces shaping these two genomes, and the strength of positive and negative selection acting on their genes. In particular, we find that the patterns of evolution in human and chimpanzee protein-coding genes are highly correlated and dominated by the fixation of neutral and slightly deleterious alleles. We also use the chimpanzee genome as an outgroup to investigate human population genetics and identify signatures of selective sweeps in recent human evolution. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2008,07:27    Quote (afarensis @ Nov. 06 2008,21:19) Quote Here we present a draft genome sequence of the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). Through comparison with the human genome, we have generated a largely complete catalogue of the genetic differences that have accumulated since the human and chimpanzee species diverged from our common ancestor, constituting  We also use the chimpanzee genome as an outgroup to investigate human population genetics and identify signatures of selective sweeps in recent human evolution. It's good to see that under the New Administration, scientists are trying to find out exactly why, and what happened, to make DaveScot the way he is - so no human has to go there ever again. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2008,21:12    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environ....-alamos I knew mini nuke plants were coming, i didn't know they were coming so soon.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 10 2008,23:16    Good Basic Carl Zimmer Article on Genes

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2008,14:11    Endeavour set for launch tomorrow

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2008,06:11    Got this message on FaceBook this morning, from the Royal Society: Quote R. Soc. Journals Today at 6:21am Reply The complete Royal Society journal archive, dating back to 1665, is FREE to access until 1 February 2009 - see http://publishing.royalsociety.org/index.cfm?page=1600 for further information. The Archive provides a record of some key scientific discoveries from the last 340 years including: Halley's description of 'his comet' in 1705; details of the double Helix of DNA by James Watson and Francis Crick in 1954; and Edmond Stone's breakthrough in 1763 that willow bark cured fevers, leading to the discovery of salicylic acid and later the development of aspirin. A personal favourite is the description by Captain James Cook of how he preserved the health of his crew aboard the HMS Endeavour. Have a look and see what other treasures you can find! We've been discussing DNA in Biology class, and what led up to and followed the Watson and Crick paper, so the timing is simply lovely. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 17 2008,01:25    This is just stupidly cool. In the last few years biologists have been studying gene expression with micro-arrays, which are horribly high-tec.  Well, some guys worked out how to do the same thing . . . on a CD.  Then you just need to play the CD to get the data off it. -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 17 2008,01:38    Quote (Bob O'H @ Nov. 17 2008,02:25) This is just stupidly cool. In the last few years biologists have been studying gene expression with micro-arrays, which are horribly high-tec.  Well, some guys worked out how to do the same thing . . . on a CD.  Then you just need to play the CD to get the data off it. I like what the nature blogger said, "They did what!?!". Occasionally you run across an idea in science so cool all you can do is grin. This is one of those ideas.

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,21:10    Cave Bears! Deciphering the complete mitochondrial genome and phylogeny of the extinct cave bear in the Paleolithic painted cave of Chauvet Here is the abstract: Quote Retrieving a large amount of genetic information from extinct species was demonstrated feasible, but complete mitochondrial genome sequences have only been deciphered for the moa, a bird that became extinct a few hundred years ago, and for Pleistocene species, such as the woolly mammoth and the mastodon, both of which could be studied from animals embedded in permafrost. To enlarge the diversity of mitochondrial genomes available for Pleistocene species, we turned to the cave bear (Ursus spelaeus), whose only remains consist of skeletal elements. We collected bone samples from the Paleolithic painted cave of Chauvet-Pont d'Arc (France), which displays the earliest known human drawings, and contains thousands of bear remains. We selected a cave bear sternebra, radiocarbon dated to 32,000 years before present, from which we generated overlapping DNA fragments assembling into a 16,810-base pair mitochondrial genome. Together with the first mitochondrial genome for the brown bear western lineage, this study provides a statistically secured molecular phylogeny assessing the cave bear as a sister taxon to the brown bear and polar bear clade, with a divergence inferred to 1.6 million years ago. With the first mitochondrial genome for a Pleistocene carnivore to be delivered, our study establishes the Chauvet-Pont d'Arc Cave as a new reservoir for Paleogenetic studies. These molecular data enable establishing the chronology of bear speciation, and provide a helpful resource to rescue for genetic analysis archeological samples initially diagnosed as devoid of amplifiable DNA. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 25 2008,17:05    From nasa.gov website: Quote Mission managers gave the astronauts of space shuttle Endeavour an extra day in space as the crews of the shuttle and International Space Station continue transferring supplies and setting up new equipment inside the station. Endeavour and seven astronauts are scheduled to return to Earth on Sunday at 12:55 p.m. EST. Endeavour is to land at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 26 2008,20:14    Dude has a new technique for genome sequencing, can do an entire human genome in about an hour. Science Magazine Weekly Podcast -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 26 2008,21:46    Quote Dude has a new technique for genome sequencing, can do an entire human genome in about an hour. And the people who a few years ago spent years doing it, are they laughing or crying? Henry

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 29 2008,11:47    Quote Most Planets May Be Seeded With Life By Phil Berardelli ScienceNOW Daily News 26 November 2008 Astronomers have detected a building block of RNA floating within the hot, compact core of a massive star-forming region in the Milky Way. The molecule appears to have formed with all of the other stuff that makes up planets, suggesting that many other worlds are seeded with some of life's ingredients right from birth. Two of the greatest questions of existence--Are we alone? and How did we get here?--remain unanswered. Clues keep coming, and they are tantalizing. Over the past decade, astronomers have detected organic molecules inside meteorites and even in space (ScienceNOW, 28 March). But these latter substances have not been found in the clouds of dust and gas around new stars that can form planets, making their link to life tenuous. The new find, described this week in the journal Astro-ph, is stronger. Using the IRAM radio dish array in France, a team of European astronomers has detected glycolaldehyde--a simple sugar that makes up ribose, one of the constituents of RNA--within the core of what appears to be a coalescing disk of dust and gas in a star-forming region called G31.41+0.31, about 26,000 light-years away. The sugar molecule can apparently form in a simple reaction between carbon monoxide molecules and dust grains. More, at Science. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 30 2008,12:21    could drinking heavy water extend your life?

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 30 2008,17:16    Quote could drinking heavy water extend your life? The article that BWE referenced here seemed to have a different opinion. Henry

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,00:20    I posted this jokingly at TBW but it would be my dream to work on this!   Quote During his career, Gould wrote 300 consecutive essays for Natural History, the monthly magazine of the American Museum of Natural History, and more than 20 books, many of them bestsellers. He also assembled what he believed was a definitive library of the history of early paleontology, said Rhonda Shearer, Gould's widow. Now, the collection of books, papers and artifacts that helped inform his writing and teaching is, for the most part, in the Stanford University Libraries, with the balance expected to arrive soon. It is an immense amount of material. They're going to digitize much of it and make it available online!   Quote Perhaps even more surprising than the books he collected is what he did with them. "He actually used them, and he annotated on many of them in pencil, in the margins," Trujillo said. "He didn't really treat them as artifacts, he treated them as a working research library, and it is clear that is what he did, even though they're really quite amazing rare books." Eek!   -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,08:59    As a hevy user of OmniPage, I have to say that hand notations in books make OCR a difficult thing. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,09:08    Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 04 2008,08:59) As a hevy user of OmniPage, I have to say that hand notations in books make OCR a difficult thing. I'd hate to think of the EAD (encoded archival description) involved, too. They may just go to PDFs, which wouldn't help you. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

qetzal Posts: 311 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2008,14:53    Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 30 2008,12:21) could drinking heavy water extend your life? The sidebar at the end of that article contains the following quote: Quote "Every single atom in the DNA of the brain of a 100-year-old man is the same atom as when he was 15 years old," says Shchepinov (BioEssays, vol 29, p 1247). That's a stunningly incorrect claim, especially from someone who supposedly has expertise in isotope effects and their potential impact on free radical damage.* If that quote is accurate (I can't access the original citation), it wouldn't encourage me to trust much of what Shchepinov says. ---- *For one thing, some of the protons (H atoms) on the DNA bases are sufficiently acidic to exchange with water at appreciable rates. Plus there are many spontaneous acid/base catalyzed reactions that alter the atoms in DNA, including cytosine deamination and depurination, to name two that are especially prevalent. More important, the guy claims that the isotope effect will help us live longer by slowing damage from free radicals. Surely he realizes that free radical damage often changes the atoms in an affected biomolecule. Does he think DNA in the brain is somehow exempt from such alterations? I sure hope that's a misquote.

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2008,23:16    Neanderthal genome half sequenced http://www.newscientist.com/article....ts.html John Hawks has some commentary http://johnhawks.net/weblog....08.html

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2008,11:16    Jeremy Mohn of Stand Up for Real Science does a nice video on the chromosome 2 fusion in humans  on TeacherTube. A little over 7 minutes long. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2008,08:59    Need a physics question answered.  I am trying to contribute to a game that I play and am making my scienc-y background text for it. Since matter warps space into positive curvature, creating gravity, is it correct to say that the cosmological constant unwarps space negatively, and that the 'natural' state of rest for space is flat?  Or am I not even wrong? Thanks in advance. Paul -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2008,09:39    I'm pretty ignorant in this area, but my understanding is the "cosmological constant" is just the gravitational effect of dark matter and dark energy. The effect would be the same if the matter was visible. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.