Badger3k
Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008
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| Quote (dvunkannon @ Jan. 13 2011,11:18) | | Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 13 2011,11:47) | | Quote (dvunkannon @ Jan. 13 2011,06:26) | Please excuse my use of this thread to record a research proposal, rather than report one.
Thinking about the series of Miller-Urey experiments, one of the most productive was simulating the effect of lightning in a volcanic eruption. A spark was passed through superheated steam in a model atmosphere. This experiment yielded abundant organic molecules.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5900/404
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081016141411.htm
I hypothesize that it should be able to confirm this result by collecting dust and ash from volcanos erupting today. While the current atmosphere contains abundant oxygen, the outgassing of a volcano may contain much less until thouroughly mixed. Therefore, lightning passing through the cloud produced by a volcano may be close to the conditions of the Miller-Bada experiment using steam.
In order to minimize contamination and degradation, my specific proposal is to collect samples from a volcano erupting through snow and ice, such as the Icelandic or Antarctic volcanos. In these conditions (dust and ash falling on new snow) the cold, dry environment would help preserve any molecules produced, and the background level of organics would be minimized.
My expectation is that the organic molecules would attach to the dust and ash particles through electrostatic forces, and be carried to the ground with them. Spectroscopy or some other form of analysis should then be able to detect them.
In summary, one criticism of abiogenesis that is sometimes heard is that if it happened in the past, why isn't it still happening today? This experiment would confirm that a reasonable mechanism that could have been at work in the past is in fact still at work today producing organic molecules. Of course, in the present these molecules do not have the chance to accumulate that they had in the deep past, due to the presence of oxygen and living creatures ready to absorb them.
I would be very happy to get comments on this proposal. |
Would you be collecting the material directly from the vent outgassing or from the ground around the vent?
I think it would be very difficult to distinguish between material made within the vent outgassing ('new material' if you will) and material that has been formed outside of that system.
That being said, depending on the volcano, you might be able to look at the ratios of various isotopes and look for signatures that would be more appropriate to recent eruptions rather than surface/recycled material.
Personally, I would think collecting gases directly from the vent (no helicopters!!) would be the best bet. Keep them sealed, then run some electricity through them and see what results. |
I think it would be cool to fly through a lightning charged cloud collecting gases, but I'm not sure I could afford the insurance. So second best is to collect the dust and ash samples after they fell to the ground.
I agree that the problem of contamination is a big issue, that is why I propose the mitigation strategy of collecting samples from new snow. The control samples would come from samples collected at the same time, but upwind of the volcano. That would give a baseline of how much organic material (and of what isotopes, as you mention) happen to be landing on the snow. Subtract that baseline, and you have a shot at seeing what the volcano is producing in the way of organics.
In the case of sampling an Antarctic volcano it would be really, really cool to look at an ice core taken from downwind of one, and look back thousands of years in order to add up the output over that time frame. |
New snow is still going to be contaminated from the air - there's all kinds of stuff floating around the atmosphere (picked up as the snow forms and floats down), and on the ground itself. I agree with the others that the best defense against contamination would be to get freshly outgassed...er...gas - something that has not even had time to mix with the atmosphere now. That way you can try to limit the atmospheric contamination.
ETA - just saw the oxygen post above. Collecting it fresh from the source seems to be the only likely avenue. Has anyone looked to see if oxygen is part of the gasses released? Is the composition now different than what it was in the past? Has oxygen in the soil translated into oxygen in volcanic gasses? Obviously I'm completely unfamiliar with this and just tossing out my 2 pennies worth.
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"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G
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