Jason Spaceman Posts: 163 Joined: Nov. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,12:53    Quote Why Darwinism is So Dangerous Ben Stein, host of a new film on Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism, gives an answer ByKatherine T. Phan Christian Post Reporter Wed, Jan. 23 2008 07:58 AM ET For Ben Stein, host of an upcoming documentary on the dominance of Darwinism in academia, Darwinism is not just problematic but dangerous even. In a media teleconference for the film “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” on Tuesday, Stein pointed out that Darwinian teaching on natural selection and random mutation "led in a straight line to the holocaust and Nazism." Darwin said that there were certain species that were superior to other species and all were competing for scarce supplies of food or resources, Stein pointed out. But if there was a limited supply of basic resources, Darwinism taught that "you owe it to the superior race to kill the inferior race," he told reporters. Darwinian evolutionary theory fueled Nazi idealism that felt gypsies, Eastern Europeans and others were competing with them for scarce basic resources, explained Stein. "As a Jew, I am horrified that people thought Jews were so inferior they didn't deserve to live," he commented. Read it here.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,13:14    Quote (Jason Spaceman @ Jan. 23 2008,10:53) Quote Why Darwinism is So Dangerous Ben Stein, host of a new film on Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism, gives an answer ByKatherine T. Phan Christian Post Reporter Wed, Jan. 23 2008 07:58 AM ET For Ben Stein, host of an upcoming documentary on the dominance of Darwinism in academia, Darwinism is not just problematic but dangerous even. In a media teleconference for the film “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” on Tuesday, Stein pointed out that Darwinian teaching on natural selection and random mutation "led in a straight line to the holocaust and Nazism." Darwin said that there were certain species that were superior to other species and all were competing for scarce supplies of food or resources, Stein pointed out. But if there was a limited supply of basic resources, Darwinism taught that "you owe it to the superior race to kill the inferior race," he told reporters. Darwinian evolutionary theory fueled Nazi idealism that felt gypsies, Eastern Europeans and others were competing with them for scarce basic resources, explained Stein. "As a Jew, I am horrified that people thought Jews were so inferior they didn't deserve to live," he commented. Read it here. Antisemitism: Quote Contents [hide] 1 Forms 2 Etymology and usage 2.1 Definitions 2.2 Use as a pejorative 3 History 3.1 Ancient world 3.2 Accusations of deicide 3.3 Persecution of Jews in the Middle Ages 3.4 Medieval Accusations of Deicide 3.5 Seventeenth century 3.6 Eighteenth century 3.7 Nineteenth century 3.8 Twentieth century I fixed this.  Darwin invented antisemitism. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,13:39    Damn!  From the Topic Headline,I thought Stein was coming clean, and saying that he looks good goose-stepping in field gray. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,13:42    Bueller...? (I couldn't help it.  :p )

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,15:13    I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once:   Quote Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail. Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact of people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man. Glen D -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,15:42    Quote (Glen Davidson @ Jan. 23 2008,14:13) I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once: Quote Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail. Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact that people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man. Glen D Well, considering that he's on the carny circuit, he's probably getting hate mail from the kind of fanatics who think you're the "wrong" kind of creationist. But remember, this is the guy who screamed “Nazis” at the cops who arrested Larry Craig for doing what Craig says he wasn’t doing but the ACLU will now defend his right to do (and I agree!. In other words, Ben Stein is a drama…queen? (That slipped out. Naa, I don’t think it’s true. If anyone needs to come out of the closet, it’s Ray Comfort. And yeah, hoo boy, imagine how the right wing will trumpet dangers of Nazism, which persecuted gays, then. Oh, yeah, we'll hear all about how we'd better not act like Nazis then.) -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Chayanov Posts: 289 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,17:02    If "Darwinism" is responsible for the Nazis, then Christianity is responsible for slavery and genocide in the Americas (Both supported by Biblical scripture). Time for all those churches to start paying out reparations. Or at least drop that ridiculous "Darwinism leads to Nazism" non-argument. -------------- Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,18:17    You think that's bad?  Huh? Well, there's nothing as bad as Nazis and Football!

rhmc Posts: 340 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,18:34    i laughed my ass off. pretty funny stuff.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,21:56    Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 23 2008,18:17) You think that's bad?  Huh? Well, there's nothing as bad as Nazis and Football! Doc Bill - You are my new bestest friend.  That was fucking Hitlerareous. BTW - Since Ben Stein has decided not to be Jewish anymore, maybe someone could send him a TO shirt. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2008,21:59    Well, for all you hard core gamers there's THIS! Awwwww, and Wii bowling is so cool.

Advocatus Diaboli Posts: 198 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2008,18:03    Eversince I read Faith and Fratrice: The theological roots of anti-semitism, by Rosemary Radford Ruether, I've had real trouble keeping a straight face when reading comments like Ben is spewing. I can't remember learning anything about the history of Jewish-Christian relations back in school (perhaps kept quiet on purpose?), but this book was an eye-opener. Centuries of systematic persecution and pogroms on the Jews all over Europe, before Adolf came goose-stepping, and now we only hear from Disco how its all his fault (cuz he read Darwin, you see). -------------- I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong. "I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot "Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova "UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

bystander Posts: 301 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2008,23:48    * edit: repeated myself

bystander Posts: 301 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,00:19    Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Jan. 28 2008,11:03) Eversince I read Faith and Fratrice: The theological roots of anti-semitism, by Rosemary Radford Ruether, I've had real trouble keeping a straight face when reading comments like Ben is spewing. I can't remember learning anything about the history of Jewish-Christian relations back in school (perhaps kept quiet on purpose?), but this book was an eye-opener. Centuries of systematic persecution and pogroms on the Jews all over Europe, before Adolf came goose-stepping, and now we only hear from Disco how its all his fault (cuz he read Darwin, you see). My father was East European and I am sure that a lot of his neighbours welcomed the Germans to rid them of the Jews and Moslems. They were "good" Christians and would have been aghast if they thought that Hitler was an atheist. It's strange that the side of the science debate that has a lot of the anti-gay/anti-brown/anti-moslem* people on it's side think that Evolution supporters are the Nazis. Michael

Nomad Posts: 311 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,02:32    Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 23 2008,21:59) Well, for all you hard core gamers there's THIS! Awwwww, and Wii bowling is so cool. Yes, that one works much better for me.  Especially since the maker managed to work a "Hitler plays with his Wii" joke into it.

PTET Posts: 133 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,07:34    Quote (Glen Davidson @ Jan. 23 2008,15:13) I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once:     Quote Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail. Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact of people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man. Glen D This seems like a good a place as any for a competition competition... Obviously the attached pic is far too childish to publish anywhere... But what *could* Ben Stein be writing with that spray-can? He is after all, this generation's rebel... The best caption "wins a prize". -------------- "It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time. Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2008,08:56    -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

Lowell Posts: 101 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,23:32    I haven't seen the film. (I RSVPd for a viewing and received an e-mail confirmation, but had to cancel the day before.) Nevertheless, Dawkins's review made me think we should revive this thread because it describes the evolution/Nazism theme the movie apparently tries to push. It also suggests the idea (which is purely my own deduction) that the filmakers wanted a Jewish spokesperson (Ben Stein) for "cover" because of how flimsy that connection is. Dawkins wrote: "He visits Dachau and, when informed by the guide that lots of Jews had been killed there, he buries his face in his hands as though this is the first time he has heard of it. Obviously it was not his intention, but I thought his rotten acting was an insult to the memory of the victims." I was raised Jewish (although I'm now an open atheist), but I find the evolution/Holocaust conflation extraordinarily offensive for all the obvious reasons, including (1) the Reich clearly relied more on religious rhetoric than scientific, (2) whatever scientific grounds it relied on were wrong, and (3) even if those scientific grounds were not wrong, the fact that scientific knowledge is put to an immoral end has no bearing on its truth value.   ERV blogged previously on a potential ADL (Anti-Defamation League) response (which I'm not yet computer-savvy enough to link to). I hope such a response will be forthcoming (probably not until after the release). It seems to me that even non-scientists (like me) from a Jewish heritage would see through this movie insofar as it misrepresents the forces that drove the Holocaust. It's not quite Holocaust-denial, but it smells similar. -------------- The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2008,23:53    Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 23 2008,18:17) You think that's bad?  Huh? Well, there's nothing as bad as Nazis and Football! Quote This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Demand Entertainment -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:02    Quote (PTET @ Jan. 28 2008,06:34)   Quote (Glen Davidson @ Jan. 23 2008,15:13) I'm hoping that Stein is telling the truth for once:       Quote Ben, himself, has lost opportunities because of his work on the project and regularly receives hate mail. Not the hate mail, if true, but I don't mind either people telling him that he's an ignorant twit promoting theo-fascism, nor the fact of people who prefer liberty to his brand of dictatorship not hiring such a cheap con-man. Glen D This seems like a good a place as any for a competition competition... Obviously the attached pic is far too childish to publish anywhere... But what *could* Ben Stein be writing with that spray-can? He is after all, this generation's rebel... The best caption "wins a prize". "Strength through Joy"?   Quote At age eighteen young German men served for a year in the Reichsarbeitsdienst—Imperial Labor Service—while the young women served as farm workers both in the fields and in the house. Shirer remembered humorously that “Inevitably, moral problems arose. The presence of a pretty young city girl sometimes disrupted a peasant’s household” he said, “and angry complaints from parents, about their daughters having been made pregnant on the farms, began to be heard.” Soon a “lively little song” about the plight of the young female “volunteers “ was circulated. It was a takeoff on Strength Through Joy, the Nazis’ slogan for its puppet German Labor Front. The song, which in German rhymed poetically, went: In the fields and on the heath I lose Strength Through Joy. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

dochocson Posts: 62 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:03    Consider the contrast between the ham handed scene of Stein at Dachau and Jacob Bronowski's wrenching visit (at Auschwitz?) in The Ascent of Man. I can only imagine what Bronowski would have to say about all this. -------------- All bleeding stops...eventually.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:25    -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:52    That's beautiful. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Lowell Posts: 101 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,00:58    Quote (dochocson @ Mar. 25 2008,00:03) Consider the contrast between the ham handed scene of Stein at Dachau and Jacob Bronowski's wrenching visit (at Auschwitz?) in The Ascent of Man. I can only imagine what Bronowski would have to say about all this. It was Auschwitz. Thank you for the reference. Bronowski at Auschwitz -------------- The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,01:04    Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 25 2008,00:52) That's beautiful. :D Do you mean the Ben-Guernica? -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,01:04    -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,01:12    I watched Bronowski's original series when it was broadcast.  I have his book, the Ascent of Man, and the DVD collection.  Jacob Bronowski is a towering intellectual and a personal hero of mine. Ben Stein is a buffoon and an idiot. Ben Stein is an insult to Bronowski and to all those who lost their lives during WW2. Ben Stein should be ashamed and humiliated about what he has done. It's not funny, Ben Stein, you have dishonored your people and people you never knew.  Ben Stein, you have mocked the death of millions of innocent people for your own personal gain.  You are disgusting beyond words. Ben Stein, you are a disgrace to your family.  You are an intellectual vandal, and a scientific slanderer. Shame on you, Ben Stein, shame on you.

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,04:09    My take on Ben.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,11:31    Quote (Reed @ Mar. 25 2008,04:09) My take on Ben. I think you have caught the essence of Ben Stein. Rather than stand on the shoulders of giants, he has chosen to stand on the shoulders of piss-ants. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

KimvdLinde Posts: 12 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,12:05    Ok, it is 60 years ago that the nazi's were squashed, and in the years after, most ideas loosely based on severe misinformed social Darwinisms have been eliminated in society. Nowadays, scientists are among the most liberal, most pro helping the weak, including most so-called "Darwinists". So, and now we suddenly have to believe that because some idiot who misused Christianity-based antisemitism, mixed with misrepresented Social Darwinism SIXTY years ago, we are NOWADAYS not anything better. Lets see, if the so-called Christian get there way, they would like to sterilize Gays, export them, kil them, because why, because they are deviant. Humm that was exactly the motivation from, guess who, Hitler. Cool. Interracial marriage. If any group does not have an issue with that, it is academics, while our average Joe Fundamentalist will nicely go to a white church and shivers with the idea that his daughter wants to marry a black guy. Eugenetics was rampant throughout the world before World War II, including the USA. After the war, it lost it traction and the world has changed since then. And that is where I think we should focus on, not whether or not the movie is actually correct. Because of we are going to dig, it will become clear that Social Darwinism was happily embraced by many with an agenda based on century-old prejudices against anything non-white and "deviant".

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,12:12    Edited by Lou FCD on Mar. 25 2008,14:07 -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,12:21    Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 25 2008,12:12) Do you guys have a Post-of-the-week award? -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,12:38    I second the motion! Midwifetoad, that is brilliant!   -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,12:50    Thanks. I only have a few posts here, but I'm not a total n00b. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Gary Bohn Posts: 10 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,13:03    Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 25 2008,12:50) Thanks. I only have a few posts here, but I'm not a total n00b. You have 17 posts here and you haven't hawked your darwincentral blog posts yet? Midwifetoad, you be slackin'.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,13:08    Quote (dogdidit @ Mar. 25 2008,13:21) Do you guys have a Post-of-the-week award? Done. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,13:13    Quote (Gary Bohn @ Mar. 25 2008,13:03) Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 25 2008,12:50) Thanks. I only have a few posts here, but I'm not a total n00b. You have 17 posts here and you haven't hawked your darwincentral blog posts yet? Midwifetoad, you be slackin'. I just did. ;) I am not particularly pleased when people come to a forum just to flog their own, so I don't plan to spend my time here linking to my own stuff. The Stein fiasco, however, just drives me wild. I have been called a Nazi by better people than the Discoveroids. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

guthrie Posts: 696 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,15:42    Is there any sign of a real Nazi complaining about the misuse of the label by the Creationists?

steve_h Posts: 544 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,16:42    Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 25 2008,19:13) I am not particularly pleased when people come to a forum just to flog their own, so I don't plan to spend my time here linking to my own stuff. A warm belated welcome to the Antio'leary. Are you here to buy books?

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,17:48    From before: http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....;t=5412 -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,17:52    Richard - you should update your ID Tree to include YOUR POTW sticker... The Darwin Mit Uns is GREAT, but hey, I got to stick up for ma homies too yall.. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Stanton Posts: 266 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,19:13    Charles Darwin and a baby rhesus macaque are the mother and father of Adolf Hitler?

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,19:18    Quote (Stanton @ Mar. 25 2008,19:13) Charles Darwin and a baby rhesus macaque are the mother and father of Adolf Hitler? HAS NOT SEEN EXPELLED? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,22:59    -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,08:19    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2008,17:48) From before: must. swallow. coffee. before. reading. forum. Wow. Okay, so the FNG sits back in slack-jawed admiration. And dammit that was STARBUCKS dammit, not that swill from the company cafeteria. Cost more than this shirt. Back to work... -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,08:22    Quote (Quidam @ Mar. 25 2008,22:59) OUTSTANDING!   Welcome and Thank You. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,09:25    The emphasis the movie makes on the holocaust is a Godsend (literally).  Everyone knows about Holocaust revisionists and how to deal with them.  That the notorious antisemite Mathis actually paid a Jew to stand up and lie for him makes it all the more ironic. If they had chosen Stalin it would have been more difficult to rebut in a way that the average 'Merkin could comprehend, but Nazis are too easy. Since the Expelled site publicly claims "Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany", that's hate speech in virtually all countries.  If that aspect is emphasised the ID folk will be backpedalling from the movie so fast only AiG will be left. -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

bourgeois_rage Posts: 117 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,10:18    I've been away far too long. These shops are brilliant. -------------- Overwhelming Evidence: Apply directly to the forehead.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,10:26    Quote (bourgeois_rage @ Mar. 26 2008,10:18) Overwhelming Evidence:  Apply Directly To The Forehead Love your tag line... Be careful though - I hear you can OD on that stuff. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,10:46    Speaking on Nazis and Ben Stein, Michael Shermer noted that during his Expelled interview Stein made some questionable comments about "blacks" that lead him to believe Stein probably harbors racist ideas.  He also said he (Shermer) wrote a review for Scientific American. Has anyone seen that review or read more about Stein's alleged racist leanings? -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Lowell Posts: 101 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,14:15    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 26 2008,10:46) Speaking on Nazis and Ben Stein, Michael Shermer noted that during his Expelled interview Stein made some questionable comments about "blacks" that lead him to believe Stein probably harbors racist ideas.  He also said he (Shermer) wrote a review for Scientific American. Has anyone seen that review or read more about Stein's alleged racist leanings? A google search for '"Ben Stein' racist" returned this article he wrote for the American Spectator after Katrina. http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8799 After Goodwining himself in the first sentence, he gives us his thesis: "The big lie of the Hurricane Katrina story is that it reveals deep and hateful racism in America, that blacks were treated worse than other people because they were black, and that this shows the hypocrisy of this supposedly egalitarian nation." The fact that black people were disproportionately affected is merely a coincidence, in Stein's view. It was "poverty" that was to blame. Well, maybe they were poor, at least in part, because they were black? No, says Stein. Their poverty was "in no sense caused by white mistreatment of blacks unless it was white mistreatment of blacks that ended many decades ago." (The possibility that past discrimination could have an effect on future generations is not addressed.) Oh, and lots of white people tried to help out afterwards. So, obviously, racism had nothing to do with it. -------------- The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,14:23    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 26 2008,09:46) Speaking on Nazis and Ben Stein, Michael Shermer noted that during his Expelled interview Stein made some questionable comments about "blacks" that lead him to believe Stein probably harbors racist ideas.  He also said he (Shermer) wrote a review for Scientific American. Has anyone seen that review or read more about Stein's alleged racist leanings? Jeebus...H...Chriminey... That Spectator article:   Quote Josef Goebbels would have been happy with much of the mainstream media in the past few weeks since Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast. Goebbels, for those of you too young to know, was Hitler's propaganda minister. He is credited with creating the concept of The Big Lie. The idea was that if you tell a lie big enough often enough, people will believe it. Josef Goebbels, again! Josef Goebbels! He's everywhere! Nazis in our public schools! Nazis in the bathroom of the Mpls/St Paul airport! The Nazis are taking ovahhhhhhh! I can't stand it. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,14:26    Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 26 2008,14:23) Josef Goebbels, again! Josef Goebbels! He's everywhere! Nazis in our public schools! Nazis in the bathroom of the Mpls/St Paul airport! The Nazis are taking ovahhhhhhh! I can't stand it. What??? You can't belly dance wearing black leather boots? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,14:37    This is a bit like salted peanuts. I can't make just one. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Lowell Posts: 101 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,14:39    Here's a really long article from the Hollywood Investigator in 2003 that traces Stein's career: http://www.hollywoodinvestigator.com/2003/benstein.htm Ben's a real pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps kind of guy: Quote Stein recalled a black woman who'd asked him, following his speech at Pepperdine University, how people were to get an education after cuts in the school budget.  "What I said to her was, no public school system has ever been invented that is so poor that a really well-motivated, well- disciplined student cannot get an education.  There's libraries, there's internet, there's newspapers, there are inexpensive books.  Some of the problem of the unemployment among inner city African-Americans is due to their own inability to educate themselves, to get themselves marketable skills. "I'm a huge fan of rap.  I'm floored at the incredible creativity and discipline and hard work of some of these rap stars who make themselves into giant sensations.  I keep thinking to myself, the inner city is an enormous reservoir of talent that has yet to be tapped by America -- but it has to tap itself first of all." -------------- The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,15:32    Quote (Lowell @ Mar. 26 2008,14:39) Stein recalled a black woman who'd asked him, following his speech at Pepperdine University, how people were to get an education after cuts in the school budget.  "What I said to her was, no public school system has ever been invented that is so poor that a really well-motivated, well- disciplined student cannot get an education.   Ben Stein, in addition to this neurotic thing of seeing Nazis behind every corner and under every rock, is plainly VERY VERY sheltered... -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,16:29    Great idea MidWifeToad.  But do you mind if I take the blue ball and run with it a bit -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,16:32    Call me stupid but I just do not understand this fascination with Nazis. I mean, I think I went through a Nazi phase in the third grade, but it was short lived. So, let me get this straight.  Darwinism leads to Nazi-ism.  OK, right.  But, only in Germany in the 1930's.  Nowhere else in the world, in no other country, at no other time in the past 150 years except in Germany in the 1930's. Therefore it would appear that Expelled was produced by third graders, or is that being unfair to third graders?

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,17:10    Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 26 2008,16:32) Call me stupid but I just do not understand this fascination with Nazis. I mean, I think I went through a Nazi phase in the third grade, but it was short lived. So, let me get this straight.  Darwinism leads to Nazi-ism.  OK, right.  But, only in Germany in the 1930's.  Nowhere else in the world, in no other country, at no other time in the past 150 years except in Germany in the 1930's. Therefore it would appear that Expelled was produced by third graders, or is that being unfair to third graders? Doc Bill - Brilliant - I think you just got put on the Nixon D. I. Enemies list. Congratualtions. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,17:33    Ben Repaints History -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,17:50    Must be a mistake! I voted for Nixon in '72. After being a young Nazi in the third grade I became a young Republican in high school.   Eventually I got laid and the rest is history.

Nomad Posts: 311 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,22:07    Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 26 2008,16:32) Call me stupid but I just do not understand this fascination with Nazis. I mean, I think I went through a Nazi phase in the third grade, but it was short lived. So, let me get this straight.  Darwinism leads to Nazi-ism.  OK, right.  But, only in Germany in the 1930's.  Nowhere else in the world, in no other country, at no other time in the past 150 years except in Germany in the 1930's. Therefore it would appear that Expelled was produced by third graders, or is that being unfair to third graders? Actually no, after covering the Holocaust they tried to tap into current fundie hot button issues.  After saying that while Evolution wasn't guaranteed to cause eugenics it was a required element for it to be able to happen (ignoring that whole Spartan thing, apparently the producers didn't see 300), they went on to cover Planned Parenthood. This shocked me.  I guess I must be out of touch, I had no idea how much animosity the fundies had for Planned Parenthood.  They showed the PP logo on screen and the audience at the Expelled screening gasped collectively.  To them Planned Parenthood was more horrifying than piles of dead bodies being shoveled into an incinerator.  Because Planned Parenthood supplies birth control to the poor the audience was told that that means they're practicing eugenics. Not just Planned Parenthood, the filmmakers tried to tie birth control, abortion, and euthanasia into one big warning that eugenics was alive and well in America today, that "darwinism" was devaluing human life in our modern world. In other words, the message wasn't just "it could happen here", but that it is happening now and that all those good Christians out there are obligated to fight against the theory of evolution for the good of the country.

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,22:39    Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 26 2008,12:37) This is a bit like salted peanuts. I can't make just one. This is all so excellent! -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,22:58    Ben Stein   Quote Darwinism does not always lead to Nazism. It is, though, a necessary albeit not sufficient component -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2008,23:50    -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,08:04    Quote (Quidam @ Mar. 26 2008,22:58) Ben Stein   Quote Darwinism does not always lead to Nazism. It is, though, a necessary albeit not sufficient component Very Interesting.... Thanks for the Mein Kampf re-print.  I'd forgotten what a steaming pile of tard it was. BUT - There is a passage in your re-print that is worth pointing out that seems to be direct evidence that HITLER  WAS A YEC!! "... and once again this planet, empty of mankind, will move through the ether as it did thousands of years ago " - (my emphasis) WTF?  Is it time for Ben and Friends to do another expose? This one linking the YEC's to Hitler and Nazism? Well, that solves the problem of what to do for the sequel for their Award-Winning Docutrashery!* *Razzie Award 2008- The Worst Story Ever Told -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,08:38    Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 27 2008,08:04) BUT - There is a passage in your re-print that is worth pointing out that seems to be direct evidence that HITLER  WAS A YEC!! "... and once again this planet, empty of mankind, will move through the ether as it did thousands of years ago " - (my emphasis) Skip back a dozen years... the second edition used "millions" instead, so even Hitler eventually figured out YEC-ism was not a winning rhetorical ploy. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,09:12    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 27 2008,08:38) Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 27 2008,08:04) BUT - There is a passage in your re-print that is worth pointing out that seems to be direct evidence that HITLER  WAS A YEC!! "... and once again this planet, empty of mankind, will move through the ether as it did thousands of years ago " - (my emphasis) Skip back a dozen years... the second edition used "millions" instead, so even Hitler eventually figured out YEC-ism was not a winning rhetorical ploy. Damn! There goes my Nobel Prize. Damn you Hitler!  Damn you to hell! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,09:15    Quote (Nomad @ Mar. 26 2008,21:07)   Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 26 2008,16:32) Call me stupid but I just do not understand this fascination with Nazis. I mean, I think I went through a Nazi phase in the third grade, but it was short lived. So, let me get this straight.  Darwinism leads to Nazi-ism.  OK, right.  But, only in Germany in the 1930's.  Nowhere else in the world, in no other country, at no other time in the past 150 years except in Germany in the 1930's. Therefore it would appear that Expelled was produced by third graders, or is that being unfair to third graders? Actually no, after covering the Holocaust they tried to tap into current fundie hot button issues.  After saying that while Evolution wasn't guaranteed to cause eugenics it was a required element for it to be able to happen (ignoring that whole Spartan thing, apparently the producers didn't see 300), they went on to cover Planned Parenthood. This shocked me.  I guess I must be out of touch, I had no idea how much animosity the fundies had for Planned Parenthood.  They showed the PP logo on screen and the audience at the Expelled screening gasped collectively.  To them Planned Parenthood was more horrifying than piles of dead bodies being shoveled into an incinerator.  Because Planned Parenthood supplies birth control to the poor the audience was told that that means they're practicing eugenics. Not just Planned Parenthood, the filmmakers tried to tie birth control, abortion, and euthanasia into one big warning that eugenics was alive and well in America today, that "darwinism" was devaluing human life in our modern world. In other words, the message wasn't just "it could happen here", but that it is happening now and that all those good Christians out there are obligated to fight against the theory of evolution for the good of the country. I too watched in astonishment as the audience gasped in horror as the Planned Parenthood logo was displayed on screen. (For my part I said, “This is ridiculous!” right out loud.) I wasn’t entirely surprised, given the attitudes out there, but I was surprised that Stein would go so far as to associate himself with a project that condemns birth control itself. But I guess that’s when I felt relief, ironically, at how batshit insane this film is. You can’t pull that stuff and have a mainstream blockbuster “documentary” and end up the “Republican Michael Moore.” You just can’t. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,09:22    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 27 2008,08:38) Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 27 2008,08:04) BUT - There is a passage in your re-print that is worth pointing out that seems to be direct evidence that HITLER  WAS A YEC!! "... and once again this planet, empty of mankind, will move through the ether as it did thousands of years ago " - (my emphasis) Skip back a dozen years... the second edition used "millions" instead, so even Hitler eventually figured out YEC-ism was not a winning rhetorical ploy. Hitler was in fact very poorly educated and was the quintessential auto-didact. Probably one of his less illiterate cronies like Hess or Goebbels suggested that revision before the second edition of MK. (Rumor has it that in addition to typing out MK, Hess also fixed AH's bad spelling and grammar.) It's ironic to think that creationists have a level of scientific understanding equal to that held by Hitler circa 1922. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,13:49    Quote Great idea MidWifeToad.  But do you mind if I take the blue ball and run with it a bit Not at all. You've finished what I started. I'm not a Photoshop ace, and it would have taken me hours to get that kind of merger. Someone needs to fire that off the Harvard. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,14:18    Quote (Quidam @ Mar. 26 2008,22:58) Ben Stein   Quote Darwinism does not always lead to Nazism. It is, though, a necessary albeit not sufficient component This is excellent. It says it all, using a primary source. I doff my tardcap. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,14:32    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 27 2008,14:18) Quote (Quidam @ Mar. 26 2008,22:58) Ben Stein     Quote Darwinism does not always lead to Nazism. It is, though, a necessary albeit not sufficient component This is excellent. It says it all, using a primary source. I doff my tardcap. Yes, Heads Up To Quidem - So, Quidem, tease us with a little background! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,15:38    I think Ben Stein as a Schoolgirl Hooker was enough teasing.  :D -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,18:07    Quote (Quidam @ Mar. 27 2008,15:38) I think Ben Stein as a Schoolgirl Hooker was enough teasing.  :D Aha a clue!  You must be from Kansas? Tease = FTK = KS On the other hand, artwork & comments too clever = Not From Kansas... = Tease = FTK = KS Help!  I'm stuck in a friggin' loop... -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,20:38    PZ Ben -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Badidea Posts: 7 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2008,21:52    I made these for a post way back when about a recent origin of life discovery. Evolution: Creationism: Intelligent Design: -------------- The Bad Idea Blog - Science, Skepticism, Silly

Damian Posts: 7 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,02:23    Here is my effort: Who knew that Ben Stein thinks in Comic Sans and carries a modified bedroom unit around with him?

Epicurian Posts: 1 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,22:46    Found the background still in a video from my archive, it's not WWII era just be clear, these people are still around somewhere.

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,23:25    -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Jason Spaceman Posts: 163 Joined: Nov. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 30 2008,02:32    The American Family Association's website (better known as OneNewsNow) interviews Ben Stein Quote AFA: But scientists say the question of God isn’t a scientific one, and that to talk about God isn’t helpful. Stein: [W]e’re just asking why a professor in a university dedicated to free thought and free inquiry can be expelled if he even suggests that there might be a God who had a hand in this. Why is it illegal to talk about God? When Darwin was writing, it was perfectly allowable to talk about God in the classroom. When Newton was doing his experiments it was perfectly … allowable to talk about God in the classroom. When Einstein wrote about physics, he said it was the hand of God at work. Why do we now say that all of a sudden God is not allowed to even be mentioned in the classroom in connection with a scientific theory? AFA: But maybe those are issues that are best left to the philosophy class or the religion class. Stein: I’m saying that maybe all these classes should not be so clearly separated from one another. Maybe all of them belong, to a certain extent, together. When Issac Newton was doing his study of the laws of physics and motion, he said he was trying to understand how God had ordered the universe and what the work of God had been. He was showing God’s handiwork. Maybe when people say they are working on intelligent design, they are just expressing God’s handiwork. Maybe when the Darwinists are explaining evolution, they’re explaining God’s handiwork. I’m a little suspicious of putting everything into neat pigeon holes. AFA: Is this movie suggesting that intelligent design or creationism be the only thing that is taught in schools? Stein: Absolutely not! And not only that, we’re not by any means certain, at least I’m not, that intelligent design is the answer. It’s a subject – this origins of life and the development and evolution of life – those are such complex subjects. … [So] we don’t think that we have all the answers. We don’t think that anyone has all the answers. We just want free speech. It’s interesting in one of his famous letters, Darwin said, “It’s all so complicated, I just want to have free speech and have people able to talk about what they want to talk about.”

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 30 2008,04:03    Wow that's some mighty strong stupid. But there's more:     Quote  AFA: Despite the angry responses, what is going to keep you going on this campaign?  Stein: I think I’m going to keep going on with this because we’re missing something extremely basic in our understanding of the world and how God created it, and I’d like us to return to that, and I think by returning to those bigger subjects of how the world got created and what our place in the world is, we will find a new moral fence which is very much lacking All Science So Far! Oh the Sternberg caption is great too:   Quote [Sternberg] explains to Ben Steinhow he lost his job with the Smithsonian Institute over the issue of Intelligent design. Sternberg hand been managing editor of a scientific journal and OK'd the publication of an article supporting the theory.

Badidea Posts: 7 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 30 2008,14:53    Lost his job with the.... I can't ever decide whether or not these people are really for reals or not.  They have to know that this is complete bullshit: that he never had a job at the Smithsonian to lose, that he lost 0 jobs in total over this controversy, and that implying that he lost his editorship (when in fact it's exactly the other way around: his tenure was ending and THUS chose to put a creationist rant in his final issue).   Then again, Stein declared in the Expelled 7minute trailer that the Meyer article "merely suggested that we are not lightning and mud after all" when in fact it says nothing even remotely close to that or anything about the origin of life.   So it doesn't seem like they even read the phenomenally important "research" they claim is being suppressed. -------------- The Bad Idea Blog - Science, Skepticism, Silly

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 30 2008,18:10    Quote (Badidea @ Mar. 30 2008,13:53) Lost his job with the.... *snip* Troy Britain gets at the real stories of firings.   Quote Nancey Murphy, a religious scholar at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif., said she faced a campaign to get her fired because she expressed the view that intelligent design was not only poor theology, but “so stupid, I don’t want to give them my time.” Murphy, who believes in evolution, said she had to fight to keep her job after one of the founding members of the intelligent design movement, legal theorist Phillip Johnson, called a trustee at the seminary and tried to get her fired. Okay, we've laughed at Ben Stein and his flapdoodle mates enough. Now it's time to really go after these frauds and expose them for who and what they are! -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

snscience Posts: 3 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2008,19:52    Another example of an evangelical Christian expressing support for evolution and getting in some trouble for it is Dr. Richard Colling. He has for 24 years been Professor and Chair of the Biological Sciences Department at Olivet Nazarene University. He wrote the Book Random Designer and when a major financial supporter of the school objected to his pro-evolutionary stance, he was suspended from the classroom. I am not sure if there has been any resolution to this yet. -------------- Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.  Charles Darwin (The Descent of Man)

godsilove Posts: 36 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,03:30    Quote (Quidam @ Mar. 26 2008,23:50) XXXpelled?

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,16:48    I had to have a cold shower after shopping that one.  It was disturbing on so many levels. I can't pass a High School now without getting some very strange impulses. I hope you appreciate the suffering I'm going through for your entertainment. -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,18:46    Quote (Quidam @ April 01 2008,16:48) I had to have a cold shower after shopping that one.  It was disturbing on so many levels. I can't pass a High School now without getting some very strange impulses. I hope you appreciate the suffering I'm going through for your entertainment. You are truly a martyr for the cause. Thus, I bestow upon you your first HA HA THIS IS YOU. HA HA THIS IS YOU -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,19:29    Quote (carlsonjok @ April 01 2008,18:46) Quote (Quidam @ April 01 2008,16:48) I had to have a cold shower after shopping that one.  It was disturbing on so many levels. I can't pass a High School now without getting some very strange impulses. I hope you appreciate the suffering I'm going through for your entertainment. You are truly a martyr for the cause. Thus, I bestow upon you your first HA HA THIS IS YOU. HA HA THIS IS YOU Quidam -That's beautiful! sniff... and you'll always remember your first time man.... we hope it was good for you too. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,21:06    I like the eXXXoelled idea, time for a revision -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,01:45    Quote (Quidam @ April 01 2008,22:48) I had to have a cold shower after shopping that one.  It was disturbing on so many levels. I can't pass a High School now without getting some very strange impulses. I hope you appreciate the suffering I'm going through for your entertainment. Strange impulses? What like wanting to argue about IDCreationism with sexy 18 year old schoolgirls in pigtails and short skirts? That's the only impulse I can think of as being strange under those circumstances. The ones about giving them a darn good rogering are of course perfectly normal, your Honour, and I stand by that. Your sacrifice is noted. Recompense in the form of a naked Arden Chatfield will be sent to your abode forthwith. Louis -------------- Bye.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:02    Quote (Quidam @ April 01 2008,21:06) I like the eXXXoelled idea, time for a revision Umm... Via a National Technical Means Intercept at Homeland Security, this latest exchange was downloaded and saved: W. Dembski: So, what do you get exactly for the $9.50 per minute? B. Stein:  What? Who IS this? Dial Tone -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:40    W. Dembski: So, what do you get exactly for the $9.50 per minute? You get to explore your fantasy with someone who will agree with anything you say. "Oooh - show me some specified complexity, sweety." "Now that's what I call an Explanatory Filter, big boy!" "I've been naughty, will you expel me again - please, Dr Dr?" "I'll show you my black box if you show me your flagellum" "Yeah baby, eject that atheist, now, now - Oh you missed one" "It's OK Honey, I don't need results. No really it's all right, I'm used to it with cdesign proponentists." "It's Dover now, or would you like another 5 minutes?" -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,10:09    SWEET!  ( or SWEAT?) Come ON Quidam!   Stop! - give somebody else a chance to get a Post Of The Week sticker. Stop!  No! Don't stop...Don't Stop! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,10:35    Quote (Quidam @ April 02 2008,15:40) W. Dembski: So, what do you get exactly for the $9.50 per minute? You get to explore your fantasy with someone who will agree with anything you say. "Oooh - show me some specified complexity, sweety." "Now that's what I call an Explanatory Filter, big boy!" "I've been naughty, will you expel me again - please, Dr Dr?" "I'll show you my black box if you show me your flagellum" "Yeah baby, eject that atheist, now, now - Oh you missed one" "It's OK Honey, I don't need results. No really it's all right, I'm used to it with cdesign proponentists." "It's Dover now, or would you like another 5 minutes?" Surely it should have ended with Dembski panting the word "Waterloo"? Louis -------------- Bye.

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,15:50    No Bonaparte, no Waterloo. I don't think Dr Dr could get a Bonaparte, (unless he thinks of DO'L first) -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,17:13    Quote (Quidam @ April 02 2008,15:50) No Bonaparte, no Waterloo. I don't think Dr Dr could get a Bonaparte, (unless he thinks of DO'L first) And based on all his other poor performance problems in the past, I don't think the Dr. Dr. is gonna have to pony up more that $9.50 either. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,20:43    Ben Stein. Nazis. Let's mosey on back in that direction, shall we? -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,21:44    Not Nazi enough for you? Ben can do Nazi Slut too, only $11.32/min -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,03:07    Quote (Lou FCD @ April 03 2008,02:43) Ben Stein. Nazis. Let's mosey on back in that direction, shall we? No! Shan't! I'm going to hold my breath until you let me make willy jokes about Dr Dembski phoning HAWT STEAMY ID Chat lines. {stands in corner, holding breath} {stamps foot} Louis P.S. Nazi? Stein? Perhaps Stein is only following orders? -------------- Bye.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,07:05    Quote (Louis @ April 03 2008,04:07) Quote (Lou FCD @ April 03 2008,02:43) Ben Stein. Nazis. Let's mosey on back in that direction, shall we? No! Shan't! I'm going to hold my breath until you let me make willy jokes about Dr Dembski phoning HAWT STEAMY ID Chat lines. {stands in corner, holding breath} {stamps foot} Louis P.S. Nazi? Stein? Perhaps Stein is only following orders? Now see, you could have gone the much pithier route of "Jawohl Herr Kommandant!". That would have been funny. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,07:27    Quote (Lou FCD @ April 03 2008,13:05) Quote (Louis @ April 03 2008,04:07) Quote (Lou FCD @ April 03 2008,02:43) Ben Stein. Nazis. Let's mosey on back in that direction, shall we? No! Shan't! I'm going to hold my breath until you let me make willy jokes about Dr Dembski phoning HAWT STEAMY ID Chat lines. {stands in corner, holding breath} {stamps foot} Louis P.S. Nazi? Stein? Perhaps Stein is only following orders? Now see, you could have gone the much pithier route of "Jawohl Herr Kommandant!". That would have been funny. Dammit did I screw up again? In that case I shall redeem myself by some means fair or foul, oh yes I shall. I just don't know what it is yet. Louis -------------- Bye.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,08:18    Quote (Lou FCD @ April 03 2008,07:05) Quote (Louis @ April 03 2008,04:07)   Quote (Lou FCD @ April 03 2008,02:43) Ben Stein. Nazis. Let's mosey on back in that direction, shall we? No! Shan't! I'm going to hold my breath until you let me make willy jokes about Dr Dembski phoning HAWT STEAMY ID Chat lines. {stands in corner, holding breath} {stamps foot} Louis P.S. Nazi? Stein? Perhaps Stein is only following orders? Now see, you could have gone the much pithier route of "Jawohl Herr Kommandant!". That would have been funny. Ach!  General Lou FCD !  How Goot to see you again! Ve vere chust talking about what a Great Moderator you are, weren't we , Ja? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,10:05    -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,11:06    YES!  Me Likey! Every generation has its Rebel Without A Clue. Like some one who paints over an X with another X. Can I has to update my Sig Line? edited for maximum coolness -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,11:18    Toad's gift to the world. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

FutureMD Posts: 2 Joined: April 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 17 2008,20:51    Hope I'm not too late to the photoshops http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bensteinliesmementomv4.jpg

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 17 2008,21:00    Quote (FutureMD @ April 17 2008,21:51) Hope I'm not too late to the photoshops http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bensteinliesmementomv4.jpg It's never too late for photoshops. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

FutureMD Posts: 2 Joined: April 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 17 2008,21:06    fixed it to show the picture

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,01:59    Quote (FutureMD @ April 18 2008,03:06) fixed it to show the picture Love your work! Well done. Louis -------------- Bye.

godsilove Posts: 36 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,02:16    Some veritable photoshop geniuses in this thread.  Keep up the great work!

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,12:50    Yes, well, I do not possess fabulous photoshop talents. I’m just a humble pseudoscience watcher who decided to blow up the famous still from the Patterson-Gimlin film of “Patty” and found another film that Ben Neinstein won’t acknowledge as having done for some $$$. Too bad – he never saw any of the major moulah that the “Patty” footage made for other people, either! -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

pop16 Posts: 3 Joined: April 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 26 2008,10:42    Their MySpace-Expelled poll 26/4 kl. 16.25

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 26 2008,18:48    Quote (pop16 @ April 26 2008,10:42) Their MySpace-Expelled poll 26/4 kl. 16.25 pop16 - Pretty damn good first post!   Watch out Quidam - there's a new kid in town... -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

pop16 Posts: 3 Joined: April 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 27 2008,05:39    Quote (J-Dog @ April 26 2008,18:48) pop16 - Pretty damn good first post! Thanks! As "my" server is temporary down. Here is a link to the image on another server: http://www.evolutionsteori.se/images/expelled_poll.jpg

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 27 2008,06:28    Quote (pop16 @ April 27 2008,06:39) Quote (J-Dog @ April 26 2008,18:48) pop16 - Pretty damn good first post! Thanks! As "my" server is temporary down. Here is a link to the image on another server: http://www.evolutionsteori.se/images/expelled_poll.jpg It is a good first post, but at the bottom, shouldn't it read   Quote "MySpace by Spun Media" ? -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 27 2008,10:28    Quote (J-Dog @ April 26 2008,17:48) Watch out Quidam - there's a new kid in town... Young Punks! Too slow on the draw -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 27 2008,11:30    and when PhotoShop Artists do battle -  We Win! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 27 2008,13:04    This I didn't know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Weikart Quote Weikart is best known for his 2004 book From Darwin to Hitler, Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics and Racism in Germany.[2][3] This is controversial because of his association with the Discovery Institute that partly funded his research. Political Science professor Larry Arnhart states that "Weikart's book was financed by the Discovery Institute as part of their 'wedge strategy' for attacking Darwinian science as morally corrupting in its atheism."[4] This strategy aims to "defeat [the] materialist world view" represented by the theory of evolution in favor of "a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."[5] -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine