Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Posted: April 06 2007,13:30

DaveScot is a tard

Quote

Joseph
It will either be “Thank “God” you listened to me when you did”, or “You didn’t listen to me soon enough.”
There’s a third and most likely outcome IMO. We do nothing and nothing bad happens. This is the course that we’ll end up taking because there’s too much resistance and bickering when it comes to actually making a sacrifice and who makes how much.
China is on the verge of becoming the #1 single largest source of CO2 in the world. You think they’re going to play along and harm their economy over this? And if they don’t why should we? China was exempt from Kyoto. Do you think that’s fair and isn’t it essential that the biggest CO2 sources all cooperate? All the tailpipe emissions in the U.S. together are 8% of manmade CO2. If that’s reduced by half in the next ten years it will probably trigger a depression. Not one of these mild recessions of recent decades but a full blown depression more like the Great Depression of the 1930’s. I don’t think people realize how fragile the economy is and what a large burden such as this will do to it. To add insult to injury halving U.S. tailpipe emissions doesn’t significantly reduce total global CO2 emissions so it’s all for nothing in any case.

There been no depression in any country in the world that uses Keynesian economics (which were specifically designed to make depressions very difficult), and I fail to see how improving emission controls would trigger one.

Also, China is a signatory to Kyoto, and is bound by it as much as any other signatory. It's just that the limit set for China's CO2 production was above their actual production. Because they produced very little CO2 relative to their population; does anyone know if DaveTard's comment about them being about to race ahead of the US in CO2production is true?

Is there any subject that DaveTard is not completely ignorant of? Other than the proper way to eat cheesypoofs, I mean.

[[edited because subscripts don't work here :( ]]

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Posted: April 06 2007,13:35

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Posted: April 06 2007,14:41

We've entered a new, golden age of hypocrisy as DaveTard starts a thread with "Angry Old Fat Man.."

http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-top....calypse

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

GCT

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Joined: Aug. 2005

Posted: April 06 2007,15:46

Quote (wintermute @ April 06 2007,14:30)

Because they produced very little CO2 relative to their population; does anyone know if DaveTard's comment about them being about to race ahead of the US in CO2production is true?

I read in a magazine today (I think it was Time) that China is forecast to surpass the US in total CO2 output by 2010. They will, however, still lag behind us in CO2 output per person.

Edit: I was at the doctor's office and the magazine there had a big cover story on global warming, so I picked it up and checked it out while I was waiting.

Kristine

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Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: April 06 2007,17:09

Quote (GCT @ April 06 2007,14:46)

Quote (wintermute @ April 06 2007,14:30)

Because they produced very little CO2 relative to their population; does anyone know if DaveTard's comment about them being about to race ahead of the US in CO2production is true?

I read in a magazine today (I think it was Time) that China is forecast to surpass the US in total CO2 output by 2010. They will, however, still lag behind us in CO2 output per person.

Edit: I was at the doctor's office and the magazine there had a big cover story on global warming, so I picked it up and checked it out while I was waiting.

I'm not an expert, and I don't think they're going to actually surpass us, but China's and India's CO2 output is going to increase significantly and is a growing problem as well.

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 06 2007,13:41)

We've entered a new, golden age of hypocrisy as DaveTard starts a thread with "Angry Old Fat Man.."

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-top....calypse[/URL]

Snore, I got the video's joke after the first minute. To be fair, though, there is a lunatic fringe to the Peak Oil crowd; Harper's had a good article about it ("Imagine there's no oil: Scenes from a liberal apocalypse," by Bryant Urstadt, Aug. 2006 - no, I don't care for the title either). A bunch of yucks talking about fleeing the cities, which will become scenes from Soylent Green, for "lifeboat ectopic communities" out in the crountry then, in the next breath, "in the future, we'll plant gardens on top of skyscrapers" (but I thought you were fleeing the cities? You gonna sneak in after dark and plant your gardens overnight?). Sloppy thinking from people I wouldn't share a bong-hit with. Apocalyptic thinking of any kind is a fantasy about stealing things from other people.

Dave should see Who Killed the Electric Car? no matter what he thinks of global warming.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

J-Dog

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Posted: April 06 2007,19:32

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,10:30)

(Who complains about getting 400 hits? Certainly not me.) :( :p

Kristine - You need to market yourself better girl! ####, you didn't even post here about writing your story about burning down all those dinosaurs with saddles!

Everyone should follow Kristine's link (the not me)and read her story.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

phonon

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Posted: April 06 2007,20:24

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,17:09)

Dave should see Who Killed the Electric Car? no matter what he thinks of global warming.

Dammit! I want an electric car!!

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With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

Kristine

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Posted: April 06 2007,22:58

Quote (J-Dog @ April 06 2007,18:32)

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,10:30)

(Who complains about getting 400 hits? Certainly not me.) :( :p

Kristine - You need to market yourself better girl! ####, you didn't even post here about writing your story about burning down all those dinosaurs with saddles!

Everyone should follow Kristine's link (the not me)and read her story.

Gack! I just wanna say (before certain people give my name to Homeland Security) that the people who burn down the museum do so inadvertently, because rural homeowners in Kentucky, in defiance of the DNR, burn off their lands to get rid of the snakes.

The irony of that just killed me.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: April 06 2007,23:27

Quote (phonon @ April 06 2007,20:24)

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,17:09)

Dave should see Who Killed the Electric Car? no matter what he thinks of global warming.

Dammit! I want an electric car!!

THIS IS MORE YOU...

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

GCT

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Joined: Aug. 2005

Posted: April 07 2007,07:53

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,23:58)

Quote (J-Dog @ April 06 2007,18:32)

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,10:30)

(Who complains about getting 400 hits? Certainly not me.) :( :p

Kristine - You need to market yourself better girl! ####, you didn't even post here about writing your story about burning down all those dinosaurs with saddles!

Everyone should follow Kristine's link (the not me)and read her story.

Gack! I just wanna say (before certain people give my name to Homeland Security) that the people who burn down the museum do so inadvertently, because rural homeowners in Kentucky, in defiance of the DNR, burn off their lands to get rid of the snakes.

The irony of that just killed me.

Besides, here at ATBC, we are the Church Burnin' Ebola Boys (and Girls), not the Dinosaurs with Saddles Burnin' Ebola Boys (and Girls). We'd have to change our acronyms!

k.e

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Posted: April 07 2007,08:09

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 07 2007,07:27)

Quote (phonon @ April 06 2007,20:24)

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,17:09)

Dave should see Who Killed the Electric Car? no matter what he thinks of global warming.

Dammit! I want an electric car!!

THIS IS MORE YOU...

LOL....phonon stalks into room with a fixed smile and his arms akimbo.

His gait has an uncomfortable bobbing motion while he rotates stiffly in each direction before woodenly sitting down.

RTH playing Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward, sticks out his chest and puts on his best low sexy Nigella Lawson voice.

RTH:"Phonon we have had a demand from British Anti- Darwinists for Total and Absolutely Ruthless Domination (BADTARD) demanding that all electric cars be made to run on melted down Polar Bears"

Phonon: That's terrible what shall we do?

R: I don't know .....But I'm thinking a really really rich chocolate cake with *smooch* strawberries soaked in Cointreau, bent over backwards on the corner of the lounge chair.

P: That sounds awfully GAY to me RTH. Shouldn't we just call the CIA?

R:Ho hum....C'est la guerre ...now give us a kiss.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Reciprocating Bill

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Posted: April 07 2007,08:17

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,09:22)

Even with my school account I cannot access the article - but for pity sakes what a big to-do about nothing. Semantic slights-of-hand again. "Random." "Design." "Both." Don't worry Tyharris, I'm after bigger fish.

Access the Gershenson article here. It appears at the top of the list. No special access required.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Hereâ€™s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

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Posted: April 07 2007,10:18

Acquiesce

Quote

Therefore the contrast between hierarchic classification and gradualistic evolution, which would leave behind an overlapping blurred and fundamentally indistinct pattern, could not be more complete. Nature is fundamentally non-sequential, in other words, a discontinuous phenomenon.

This is a common misperception. The twigs on an archetypal tree form a nested hierarchy. Though the tree certainly grows gradually, each twig can trace its ancestry through a distinct lineage. No matter how bushy the tree, we can cut an arbitrary limb, and each descendant branch and twig will fall from the tree. That's because each branch and twig only has a single connection to the limb.

Interestingly, the branches on a tree tend to diverge into the surrounding space in order to make best use of the available resources, i.e. solar energy; and diverging organic lineages do so for quite analogous reasons.

Acquiesce

Quote

Furthermore, for gradualism to produce such hierarchic order it would be required that character traits once acquired can never subsequently be lost or transformed in any real sense and that the acquisition of new traits must leave previous traits essentially unchanged.

Therefore, in other words, character traits (such as hair and mammary glands unique to mammals, or pentadactyl limb unique to all terrestrial vertebrates) must remain fundamentally immutable. But why should these traits have remained immune to change, after all, are we not talking about evolution?

This statement makes no sense at all in light of the evidence. A horse's foot looks nothing like that of a mouse. A human mammary looks very little like that of a cow. And a hair follicle on a bat is quite different from that of a whale. And yet, we can trace the ancestry of these traits to a common ancestor.

Acquiesce

Quote

Put simply, gradualists who acknowledge hierarchic order are also acknowledging the fact that the crucial intergrading forms leading from one form to another are totally lacking.

Again, this makes little sense. Twigs are quite distinct. The gradualist connection between twigs on a tree is through their shared ancestry.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

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Posted: April 07 2007,10:29

A few denizens of Uncommon Descent have been spotted outside the protective environs of their moderation cocoon.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

stevestory

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Posted: April 07 2007,10:41

Just went over to Uncommonly Dense, to check out what they've been up to in the few days since I was last there.

first post: photoshop picture about evolution 'going out of business'.

second post: forward Dembski wrote to yet another mass-market ID pseudoscience book.

third post: another photoshopped picture, for a lame April Fools Day joke posted 5 days late.

fourth post: insults Al Gore, says global warming is another science religion to go along with 'darwinism'.

If they keep this up, pretty soon they're going to be too lame for me to make fun of. If I were them, I'd be bored too. ID is pretty much over.

k.e

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Posted: April 07 2007,11:05

Quote (Zachriel @ April 07 2007,18:29)

A few denizens of Uncommon Descent have been spotted outside the protective environs of their moderation cocoon.

moderation cocoon ....more like a day care centre for sensitive dreamers.

pffffft OR 'what a way to spend an Easter....at the crying club ....while nailed to a cross'

The poor souls kvetch when asked to produce the juice and just bitch about being supressed because a few people point out they don't have any idea WTF they are talking about.

Just imagine if airplane accident investigators were told they didn't need to know anything to be an airplane accident investigator.......by a bunch of born again losers.

QUICK SHUT THE UD DOORS WHILE THEY'RE OUT DT .......YOU CAN KEEP ALL THE 'LOOK AFTER THE LOONY STAMPS' FOR YOURSELF....JUST THINK..... FREE TALK WITH GOD AND NAPOLEON AT ONCE BEFORE THE TRICK CYCLIST* COMES BACK.
*Loony Marine secret code for psychiatrist

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Kristine

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Posted: April 07 2007,12:52

Whaddaya mean, "boring?" A challenge! A challenge! He really does know my secret desires.

Quote

Now and again I’m asked to write the foreword to an ID book. Here’s a foreword I recently completed (I leave off the contributors and title so that Darwinists don’t sabotage the book before it sees the light of day):

Now to find it out before these mysterious Darwinists do. Even if I am occasionally a twit.

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 07 2007,07:17)

Quote (Kristine @ April 06 2007,09:22)

Even with my school account I cannot access the article - but for pity sakes what a big to-do about nothing. Semantic slights-of-hand again. "Random." "Design." "Both." Don't worry Tyharris, I'm after bigger fish.

Access the Gershenson article here. It appears at the top of the list. No special access required.

Oops.

Oh, and Happy Easter.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Reciprocating Bill

Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: April 07 2007,15:06

Quote (Kristine @ April 07 2007,12:52)

Oops. :p
Oh, and Happy Easter.

Resurrection is BACK!

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Hereâ€™s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: April 07 2007,16:51

jerry

Quote

When objects (in this case biological organisms) are organized because of some type of similarity it is likely that there will be various forms of hierarchies used. If it assumed that the descent of the hierarchies on the paper used to show these hierarchies represents a time order then that can be checked against independent information.

When people classify objects, they often use a categorical scheme. The key aspect of biological organization is that classification by the vast majority of traits yields a unique nested hierarchy. For instance, we can categorize organisms that have vertebrate, and those that don't. We can then categorize those that have mammary glands, and those that don't. But we immediate note that those with mammary glands are always vertebrates.

So, we continue with our classification. One nested set looks like this: eukaryotes, vertebrates, fish, tetrapods, reptiles, mammals, primates, etc. Eventually, we can reliably predict the existence of mammary glands just by looking at a single tooth, or the structure of a heart from a feather. This is called correlation, and it is strongly predictive.

The nested hierarchy is exactly the pattern we would expect from common descent. If we look at fossils, we can see the evolutionary succession. When we look at embryos, we have the same nested hierarchy, including vestigial structures. And when we examine genomes, we find the strongest possible confirmation of common descent.

jerry

Quote

It could very well be common descent but common descent says nothing about the mechanism that produced the new organisms.

That's correct. Common Descent does not directly address the mechanism of evolution. But let's be clear on this point. Life has evolved and diversified from common ancestors.

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steve_h

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Posted: April 07 2007,17:42

Parody site owner (possibly Dembski under an assumed name) promoted to contributor status at uncommondescent.com. Is this the best the ID movement has?

Galapagos Finch, Galapagos Finch, William Dembski, William Dembski, Demsbki/Finch

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Posted: April 07 2007,17:59

Quote (steve_h @ April 07 2007,17:42)

Parody site owner (possibly Dembski under an assumed name) promoted to contributor status at uncommondescent.com. Is this the best the ID movement has?

Galapagos Finch, Galapagos Finch, William Dembski, William Dembski, Demsbki/Finch

Sadly, yes. Bad parody and farts, but no science. Unless you redefine science as "bad parody and farts", which the could actually try.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Occam's Toothbrush

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Posted: April 07 2007,18:17

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 07 2007,17:59)

Quote (steve_h @ April 07 2007,17:42)

Parody site owner (possibly Dembski under an assumed name) promoted to contributor status at uncommondescent.com. Is this the best the ID movement has?

Galapagos Finch, Galapagos Finch, William Dembski, William Dembski, Demsbki/Finch

Sadly, yes. Bad parody and farts, but no science. Unless you redefine science as "bad parody and farts", which the could actually try.

As the Wedgie Document clearly states, it is DI's 20 year goal to "To see bad parody and farts as the dominant perspective in science."

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"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

djmullen

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Posted: April 07 2007,21:01

Quote (steve_h @ April 07 2007,17:42)

Parody site owner (possibly Dembski under an assumed name) promoted to contributor status at uncommondescent.com. Is this the best the ID movement has?

Galapagos Finch, Galapagos Finch, William Dembski, William Dembski, Demsbki/Finch

Judging by this sentence in the "Galapagos Finch" production, the author has got to be Dembski:

"Charles Darwin Institute of Technology (CHIT)..."

Between farts and chits, this man has a serious anal fixation.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank

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Posted: April 07 2007,21:13

Quote (djmullen @ April 07 2007,21:01)

Judging by this sentence in the "Galapagos Finch" production, the author has got to be Dembski:

"Charles Darwin Institute of Technology (CHIT)..."

Between farts and chits, this man has a serious anal fixation.

Well heck, anyone who saw him on "Comedy Central" knows he's a tight-ass. (shrug)

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someotherguy

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Posted: April 07 2007,23:21

I guess it might be Dembski's site, but the WHOIS registration info for www.thebrites.org is very different from either UD or OE.

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Evolander in training

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Posted: April 08 2007,08:10

kairosfocus

Quote

You also demonstrate that if NDT etc advocates will pull back on the incivility that too often mars their behaviour, they can participate productively in UD.

That is a false statement. Many people have been banned from Uncommon Descent for reasons far a cry from "incivility". E.g., I have been banned from Uncommon Descent three times:

1. Pointing out correctly (on-topic) that Scientific American is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
2. For arguing reasonably (on-topic) that an arm can act as a sling, such as slinging mud or rocks, or as a windmill pitch in softball.
3. For rightly defending (off-topic but off-site) a science teacher from unfair accusations of lying. Those making the accusations (off-topic but on-site) were allowed to continue their mockery.

There are many such examples.

The teacher, Allen MacNeill, even offered a class at Cornell, Evolution and Design: Is There Purpose in Nature?, encouraging an open discussion of the issues. MacNeill was then invited to participate at Uncommon Descent.

scordova blogged

Quote

I am told MacNeill has been very respectful to the much besieged IDEA club at Cornell, and I am grateful for his civility toward my embattled comrades there. I hope we at Uncommon Descent will reciprocate the civility he has extended to IDists at his school.

Apparently not. And defending him was a banning offense. While scordova and others stood by.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

k.e

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Posted: April 08 2007,08:24

Quote (Zachriel @ April 08 2007,16:10)

kairosfocus

Quote

You also demonstrate that if NDT etc advocates will pull back on the incivility that too often mars their behaviour, they can participate productively in UD.

That is a false statement. Many people have been banned from Uncommon Descent for reasons far a cry from "incivility".

I have been banned from Uncommon Descent three times:

1. Pointing out correctly (on-topic) that Scientific American is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
2. For arguing reasonably (on-topic) that an arm can act as a sling, such as slinging mud or rocks, or as a windmill pitch in softball.
3. For rightly defending (off-topic but off-site) a science teacher from unfair accusations of lying. Those making the accusations (off-topic but on-site) were allowed to continue their mockery.

There are many such examples.

Oh for Christs sake ......kairosfocus you are a complete wanker.

ITS OK kairosfocus THAT HOMO Zachriel HAS BEEN BANNED AGAIN FOR SAYING SOMETHING ON TOPIC AND ON TARGET.
BUT SHOW ME UP AGAIN AND YOU'RE OUTA HERE HOMO. -dt

FEMper SIGH

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

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Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: April 08 2007,09:52

Great_Ape

Quote

They most certainly do start to decay, and this is observed, but it takes several million years for them to decay (in mammals) to the point where they are no longer discernable as what they are.

Joseph

Quote

LoL! We have NOT observed anything for millions of years. Therefore we don’t know how long viral insertions take to decay.

There is an Bristlecone Tree called "Methuselah". Scientists claim it is 4,767 years old. No known person saw the tree as a seedling, much less recorded the date. Yet, as first documented by Leonardo Da Vinci, we can see tree rings develop in trees year after year. We can compare tree rings in different trees and even determine the seasonal climate over the life of the tree.

Molecular geneticists can observe the process of mutation over generations. It is also observed that the nested hierarchy of endogenous retroviruses matches the nested hierarchy of morphology and genomics. From these observations, predictions can be made and compared to evidence from other fields of study, such as paleontology or cladistics. It is quite possible to reach valid conclusions concerning events that occurred millions of years ago.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

stevestory

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