deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:17    This is the  "FL PEANUT GALLERY" Thread Here, people can make comments or raise issues  concerning the tentatively-agreed-on "FL Debate" Anyone wishing to take part in the "FL Debate" thread can check here for relevant points that can be included in any posts. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:18    FL's been around a while. This could be interesting. Louis -------------- Bye.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:20    I've seen several of these threads attempting to lure Creationists here for debates. Does it EVER work? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:24    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 09 2009,18:20) I've seen several of these threads attempting to lure Creationists here for debates. Does it EVER work? Not to my knowledge. Mind you, you've got to heave a lot of bricks before you hit a duck. Louis -------------- Bye.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:41    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 09 2009,12:20) I've seen several of these threads attempting to lure Creationists here for debates. Does it EVER work? It might, this time, but yeah. Read the response I got here: http://pandasthumb.org/archive....-panels Who knows. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,16:30    But why would somebody want to hit a duck? That sounds daffy.

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,18:06    How 'ard could it be? Don' ald answer at once, for the day, see, is long. -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,20:45    No, it won't be interesting at all. FL is what I would label a "fucking moron." Totally ignorant about science, history, biblical scholarship, math, geometry and, well, any subject. He'll present the same stuff over and over and over. Me:  2 + 3 = 5 FL:  No, 2 + 3 = 6.  Go read Dembski's book.  Read Behe's book.  Read every book in the Universe.  It's right there in print! FL makes FtK look like ERV.  Seriously.

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,21:22    Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 09 2009,20:45) FL makes FtK look like ERV.  Seriously. Have the tard reserves expanded by an order of magnitude or two recently? -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,21:43    Oops!  Sorry, Deadman, but I violated all your rules in a single posting. However, "debate" with FL is a lost cause.  Been there, suffered through that.  Go out to the Kansas Citizens for Science Education blog for the Best of FL. 2 + 3 is still 6 I assure you!  And always will be, by God!

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,01:12    Doc: Since FL hasn't bothered to make an appearance (despite some mighty strong words about willingness to debate), I hardly think it matters.   :O I'm *shocked*, though! -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,05:33    Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 10 2009,02:45) No, it won't be interesting at all. FL is what I would label a "fucking moron." Totally ignorant about science, history, biblical scholarship, math, geometry and, well, any subject. He'll present the same stuff over and over and over. Me:  2 + 3 = 5 FL:  No, 2 + 3 = 6.  Go read Dembski's book.  Read Behe's book.  Read every book in the Universe.  It's right there in print! FL makes FtK look like ERV.  Seriously. Oh I agree with you. I should have perhaps specified what I meant (and commonly mean) by my use of the word "interesting" in contexts such as this. "Interesting" meaning an opportunity to be faced once again with a creationist exhibiting wilful, obdurate ignorance and stupidity and thus to ponder the nature of mental illness, how frighteningly common it is, all the while developing new and exciting insults. Personally, I am so jaded by my experiences with specific types of creationist and other species of denialist moron that my enormous cynicism regarding communicating with them is unlikely to be easily overcome. However, I always leave room for hope. One day, one of them might be vaguely useful. Louis -------------- Bye.

Dan Posts: 77 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:19    FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument: 1. The Pope is a Christian. 2. The Pope holds that evolution happens. http://www.vatican.va/holy_fa....en.html 3. Therefore, Evolution is compatible with Christianity. A simple three-line proof. FL now has only five options: A. Contend that statement 1 is false. B. Contend that statement 2 is false. C. Contend that the reasoning deriving statement 3 from statements 1 and 2 is wrong. D. Accept that statement 3 is true. OR E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant like "Some of you boys have already experienced either the LOSS of your Christian faith, or at least a SERIOUS EROSION of your Christian faith. And your slide (your back-slide, that is) is partly or indirectly due to the impact of evolution-claims on your own beliefs." Which will it be, FL?

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:24    Oooh, ooh! *waves hand wildly* "E?" Wait, wait, no..."A" AND "E"? -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:35    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 10 2009,07:12) Doc: Since FL hasn't bothered to make an appearance (despite some mighty strong words about willingness to debate), I hardly think it matters.   :O I'm *shocked*, though! Shocked and quite possible appalled? Louis P.S. Flabbergasted? -------------- Bye.

fusilier Posts: 252 Joined: Feb. 2003 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:55    Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,07:19) FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument: 1. The Pope is a Christian. 2. The Pope holds that evolution happens. {snip} Over on CARM, FL posts as "mellotron,"  where his most recent tactic has been to imply* he is black, and assert he knows "Darwinism => racism" when he sniffs it. Most often, he says that the Pope really isn't a Christian - although some Catholics he knows might be. Second, he will play word games to make it appear that Pius XII, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI didn't really say what we know they said. Third, he will ignore multiple citations and links in order to repeat, after a few months, the same things, in the hope that other posters simply don't notice. *Please note he's never actually said he is black, he just sets everyone up for the inference. -------------- fusilier James 2:24

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,07:07    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 10 2009,06:35) Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 10 2009,07:12) Doc: Since FL hasn't bothered to make an appearance (despite some mighty strong words about willingness to debate), I hardly think it matters.   :O I'm *shocked*, though! Shocked and quite possible appalled? Louis P.S. Flabbergasted? Bewildered, befuddled, bewitched, bamboozled and bemused. By golly. Also gabberflasted -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,07:51    Quote (fusilier @ Sep. 10 2009,07:55)   Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,07:19) FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument: 1. The Pope is a Christian. 2. The Pope holds that evolution happens. {snip} Over on CARM, FL posts as "mellotron,"  where his most recent tactic has been to imply* he is black, and assert he knows "Darwinism => racism" when he sniffs it. Most often, he says that the Pope really isn't a Christian - although some Catholics he knows might be. While the Pope is clearly Christian, I would argue that he's no true Scotsman. -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,07:53    Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,07:19) FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument: 1. The Pope is a Christian. 2. The Pope holds that evolution happens. http://www.vatican.va/holy_fa....en.html 3. Therefore, Evolution is compatible with Christianity. A simple three-line proof. FL now has only five options: A. Contend that statement 1 is false. B. Contend that statement 2 is false. C. Contend that the reasoning deriving statement 3 from statements 1 and 2 is wrong. D. Accept that statement 3 is true. OR E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant like "Some of you boys have already experienced either the LOSS of your Christian faith, or at least a SERIOUS EROSION of your Christian faith. And your slide (your back-slide, that is) is partly or indirectly due to the impact of evolution-claims on your own beliefs." Which will it be, FL? Obviously you do not realize that FL, and only FL, shall determine who is a Christian and who is not.  What were you thinking? -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,10:24    Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,12:19) FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument: 1. The Pope is a Christian. 2. The Pope holds that evolution happens. http://www.vatican.va/holy_fa....en.html 3. Therefore, Evolution is compatible with Christianity. A simple three-line proof. FL now has only five options: A. Contend that statement 1 is false. B. Contend that statement 2 is false. C. Contend that the reasoning deriving statement 3 from statements 1 and 2 is wrong. D. Accept that statement 3 is true. OR E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant like "Some of you boys have already experienced either the LOSS of your Christian faith, or at least a SERIOUS EROSION of your Christian faith. And your slide (your back-slide, that is) is partly or indirectly due to the impact of evolution-claims on your own beliefs." Which will it be, FL? I'd ask for definitions of three of the five words in the proposition "evolution is incompatible with christianity" before I even ventured an answer. Possible answers include: 1) Yes 2) Some individuals seem to manage the cognitive dissonance just fine. 3) No All depends on what you mean by "evolution", or "incompatible", or "christianity". I've yet to see many serious attempts at resolving this (or the large question of science being incompatible with religion) which don't equivocate on terms. In fact most of them equivocate so horrendously as to be vomit worthy. Louis -------------- Bye.

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,10:53    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 10 2009,10:24) vomit worthy. sig worthy? -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,11:31    wow y'all be hatin on a brutha that don't even show up deadman your link to comments went to the first page.  as there were 6, at least, I didn't read them all to find the pertinent one.  i just cant bear to come across some more blitherblather about ken miller and who so and so knows from high school or the  8th floor library mens bathroom.   what did FL say? -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,14:01    Ras: on pg. 6 of that thread, "FL" said he'd start posting  here on Sunday Sept. 13. Can't blame you for not reading through it. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,15:41    It's going to be AFDave Lite.  At best. -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

JohnK Posts: 13 Joined: Mar. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,15:57    Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,06:19) FL now has only five options: E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant FL's SOP. With sometimes more than a dozen people replying, he can get away with it. I suggest this thread be renamed the Peanut Gallery, but in addition to snark and asides, everyone post their serious responses here. Then  create a "FL vs. AtBC debate" thread where one or a few people, deadman/eric/etc, condense the best responses and post once. I.e. a single AtBC Borg collective response -- evasions pointedly noted. A thread one can link to later. Quote (fusilier @ September 10) FL will ignore multiple citations and links in order to repeat, after a few months, the same things, in the hope that other posters simply don't notice. That's why a focused thread would be best, where his usual stunts are manifest and not lost in piles of clutter. In fact, I suggest all serious AtBC creationists be treated this way.     Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,15:41) It's going to be AFDave Lite. A thread that went for 167 pages, which may never be read by anyone in its entirety again.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,16:03    Quote (JohnK @ Sep. 10 2009,21:57) Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,06:19) FL now has only five options: E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant FL's SOP. With sometimes more than a dozen people replying, he can get away with it. I suggest this thread be renamed the Peanut Gallery, but in addition to snark and asides, everyone post their serious responses here. Then  create a "FL vs. AtBC debate" thread where one or a few people, deadman/eric/etc, condense the best responses and post once. I.e. a single AtBC Borg collective response -- evasions pointedly noted. A thread one can link to later.   Quote (fusilier @ September 10) FL will ignore multiple citations and links in order to repeat, after a few months, the same things, in the hope that other posters simply don't notice. That's why a focused thread would be best, where his usual stunts are manifest and not lost in piles of clutter. In fact, I suggest all serious AtBC creationists be treated this way.       Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,15:41) It's going to be AFDave Lite. A thread that went for 167 pages, which may never be read by anyone in its entirety again. Seconded. It'll make a nice change. We'd need a thread moderator with either power to port posts or access to someone with that power. And the willingness and time to do so of course. Louis ETA: I've yet to meet a serious creationist. They all eventually rely on the standard mendacity or mystery that typifies their mentality. -------------- Bye.

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,16:47    FL sings Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. Take it away FL! After one whole thread of tard Like a heat rash I return With no more education I've got lots of time to burn Evolution's just a wet dream It's enough to make me puke Even though I'm fucking clueless There's nothing I can't rebuke REFRAIN I'm back again The same again A simpering, whimpering tard again Bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I Couldn't learn Wouldn't learn But there's not a Darwinist book I wouldn't burn Bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I Lost my mind but what of it? It doesn't make a diff Go ahead, have a laugh It just makes me stiff A shill I am But still I am Batshit crazy and in love with Ham Bewitched, bothered and bewildered Am I Vexed I am Perplexed I am I really want to have sex with Ham Bewitched, bothered and bewildered Am I Wise at last (Kurt) Eyes at last (Ham) I'm cutting Darwin down to size at last Bewitched, bothered and bewildered no more Am I (applause!)

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,17:14    Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,15:41) It's going to be AFDave Lite.  At best. Same great TARD taste.  Only half the brain damage? -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,17:23    Bleh. Okay, I'm going to assume FL = male. I'm responsible for inviting "FL" without having any real knowledge of  his track record at PT or CARM or wherever. I just saw him posting at PT and disrupting a thread I was interested in. I didn't know it was a "regular" irritant there and my intent was to find a decent chew-toy. I don't think this is it, but it might at least serve the purpose of keeping FL busy for a while. Maybe. I'm having real second thoughts after having read some of his claims and tactics. My bad. I agree on the "AFDave xtra-lite" assessment from OT (Occam's). It might still be possible to make this into an occasional diversion -- something vaguely interesting -- whenever people feel like whacking the mole. I'll reiterate John and  Louis'  comments above: "FL" uses the usual cherry-picking response ploy -- preferring to respond to less-relevant questions/comments and refusing to deal with more  germane ones. I expect a Gish Gallop, and the full bag o' tricks creos usually bring: diversion, snark, irrelevancies and especially fallacy/illogic. Everyone's seen this shit before.   So, the fewer "opposing posts" the better (preferably  a maximum of 2-3 per day? 1? ) There's a month to deal with this, by FL's "plan," so, that's plenty of time to simply pick through claims. I don't expect any real surprises; i.e. no real meat, but a lot of standard creo-gamesmanship. Whoever posts TO FL should probably see if there's any interesting "peanut gallery " comments/points first, then put them together into as concise and compact a package as possible. I don't think we can impose on Kristine or LouFCD to moderate much, so ...ahem...it's up to everyone to try to cooperate in using the Peanut Gallery and only post in the actual FL thread when you're sufficiently irritated or drunk, or have a killing thrust you want to personally apply. I'm going to use a modified "Febble-Eric" approach with any FL posts I make: bullet points and stick to narrow crippling topics, forcing exploration of those finely-delimited points as much as possible. The syllogistic example of Dan's is a good starting point. ----------------------------------- I can post at 10 AM PST daily. I'll take that responsibility, since I blame me for this potential (okay, certain) debacle, and so should everyone else. I'll still ask for comments and suggestions until the circus commences. After that, please get your comments/points in the PG (peanut Gallery) thread before 10 AM PST daily. Thanks and Cheers! -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,17:55    K, I just sent Lou a request to change this thread title to "FL debate Peanut Gallery." He's not feeling well , so I don't expect that  change to happen immediately. I'll start up a "FL Debate Thread" on Sat., before FL posts on Sunday. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,19:42    It's been changed. You're right about moderating though. I'm back in school for the semester, and I just won't have the time. Plus, I'm not really interested in reading FL's nonsense. He's been posting the same lying bullshit at PT since I've been there (several years now), and I don't really have any interest in reading any more of it than I already have. Though I've retired from full moderator status here, I still have the Buttón de la Emeritus, and if someone sends me a PM I can move a comment to the BW if necessary on my next visit. Pick one person to be responsible for that. I'll move comments based on PMs from that one person. I don't necessarily get to come here every day, so please be patient. School has to take priority, of course. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

csadams Posts: 124 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,19:56    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 10 2009,17:23) Bleh. Okay, I'm going to assume FL = male. Reasonable assumption, seems like.       Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 10 2009,17:23) I'm responsible for inviting "FL" without having any real knowledge of  his track record at PT or CARM or wherever. I just saw him posting at PT and disrupting a thread I was interested in. I didn't know it was a "regular" irritant there and my intent was to find a decent chew-toy. FL at KCFS -------------- Stand Up For REAL Science!

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,20:44    Oi, this is not good. I tended to avoid the whole Kansas thing since it wasn't my state, but I donated through the ACLU as I've been doing for a while. CARM...Hah, I never joined up there because I met Matt Slick on Yahoo chat eons ago and he really, really didn't like me. The feeling was mutual, so I didn't bother -- but I did watch CARM morph into the creature it is. I just didn't read it after a while. And PT...I have a bad habit of not reading a lot of comments, so I just didn't see "FL" much. I also mentally blot out creo posts when I do see them, most of the time. It's like a perfect storm of stupid on my part. Oh, well. All of FL's KCFS posts are here, if you want to lose neurons: http://www.kcfs.org/forums....art=525  (thank you, csadams). I need a time machine. This is indeed an odious critter. LouFCD: no worries, I'll make a point of not bugging you at all, classes are way more important. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,21:36    Well, we are talking about somebody who "defends" Christianity by announcing that it's incompatable with a strongly-supported evidence based conclusion about how nature works. May nobody see fit to "defend" me in such a manner. Henry

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,21:37    When I follow the link to KCFS I get "No topics or posts met your search criteria" -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,21:48    afarensis: damn, yeah. I thought my link worked, but  when I dumped my cache, it linked to what you stated. Let's see if this works:  http://www.kcfs.org/forums/search.php?search_author=FL -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

fusilier Posts: 252 Joined: Feb. 2003 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,06:49    Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,08:51) {snip} While the Pope is clearly Christian, I would argue that he's no true Scotsman. <churchlady voice> Of course not, the current one is German, the previous one was Polish, and before that they were pretty much all Italian. </voice> Dunno whether any of 'em liked oatmeal for breakfast, though. -------------- fusilier James 2:24

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,07:32    Quote (fusilier @ Sep. 11 2009,07:49)   Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,08:51) {snip} While the Pope is clearly Christian, I would argue that he's no true Scotsman. <churchlady voice> Of course not, the current one is German, the previous one was Polish, and before that they were pretty much all Italian. </voice> Dunno whether any of 'em liked oatmeal for breakfast, though. And does the Pope wear underwear under his kilt dress? -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

SLP Posts: 136 Joined: Dec. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,08:33    "FL" also posts on numerous boards as "Mellotron". He supposedly has a background in journalism, but if you are familiar with his antics, it seems more of a FOX news type of yarn-spinning ideologue. He has a tendency to hunt the net to find a single person who has written something that he can construe as supporting his position and then presents this person's ideas as the ultimate truth on the matter, and no matter how much evidence is presented overturning his claims, he will not yield. He has, for example, taken an out of context quote from Jon Oro that he uses to imply that biological evolution INCLUDES abiogenesis.  When it is pointed out that Oro was referring to the CONCEPT of evolution (change over time), not the theory of evolution, he simply restates his original claims and claims victory. In short, he is a hero-worshipping, ignorant, obstinate, classic Dunning-Kruger poster boy, YEC dimwit hack.

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,09:29    I've been wondering, having been involved in discussions on PT with FL whether the moniker stands for Fringe Lunatic. Seriously...he is one odd thinking soul. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Jasper Posts: 76 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,10:23    "FL" are the initials of "Floyd A. Lee," a resident of Topeka, Kansas. He outed himself years ago on PT. Interestingly, here's an old article from the Topeka Capitol Journal written by someone named Floyd Lee.  I wonder if it was the same FL?

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,10:24    Quote (SLP @ Sep. 11 2009,09:33) "FL" also posts on numerous boards as "Mellotron". He supposedly has a background in journalism, but if you are familiar with his antics, it seems more of a FOX news type of yarn-spinning ideologue. He has a tendency to hunt the net to find a single person who has written something that he can construe as supporting his position and then presents this person's ideas as the ultimate truth on the matter, and no matter how much evidence is presented overturning his claims, he will not yield. He has, for example, taken an out of context quote from Jon Oro that he uses to imply that biological evolution INCLUDES abiogenesis.  When it is pointed out that Oro was referring to the CONCEPT of evolution (change over time), not the theory of evolution, he simply restates his original claims and claims victory. In short, he is a hero-worshipping, ignorant, obstinate, classic Dunning-Kruger poster boy, YEC dimwit hack. that's quite a string!  I am impressed. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

mammuthus Posts: 13 Joined: June 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,10:38    Quote (SLP @ Sep. 11 2009,08:33) "FL" also posts on numerous boards as "Mellotron". Yes, see this brief discussion with Per Ahlberg on the subject of tetrapod evolution that I instigated: http://talkrational.org/showthread.php?p=205071#post205071

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,11:35    Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 10 2009,19:36) Well, we are talking about somebody who "defends" Christianity by announcing that it's incompatable with a strongly-supported evidence based conclusion about how nature works. May nobody see fit to "defend" me in such a manner. Henry I was thinking the same thing myself.  I suppose if you can demonstrate that your religion is incompatible with reality, you've shown that your faith is really, really strong. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

SLP Posts: 136 Joined: Dec. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,11:56    Quote (Jasper @ Sep. 11 2009,10:23) "FL" are the initials of "Floyd A. Lee," a resident of Topeka, Kansas. He outed himself years ago on PT. Interestingly, here's an old article from the Topeka Capitol Journal written by someone named Floyd Lee.  I wonder if it was the same FL? And a list of his articles: http://findarticles.com/p....Journal I wonder if they know how much of a dishonest dork he is there in Toe -PEEEK -uh....

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,12:18    Quote (mammuthus @ Sep. 11 2009,10:38) Quote (SLP @ Sep. 11 2009,08:33) "FL" also posts on numerous boards as "Mellotron". Yes, see this brief discussion with Per Ahlberg on the subject of tetrapod evolution that I instigated: http://talkrational.org/showthread.php?p=205071#post205071 Ah, dammit, I recall reading that thread. Hell, I put in a meaningless "humorous" post in it, but completely erased (or utterly ignored) the link of Mellotron with FL. I'd completely forgotten that "Fastnet" moniker, too. I plead senility or something. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,13:29    Quote (Jasper @ Sep. 11 2009,10:23) "FL" are the initials of "Floyd A. Lee," a resident of Topeka, Kansas. He outed himself years ago on PT. Interestingly, here's an old article from the Topeka Capitol Journal written by someone named Floyd Lee.  I wonder if it was the same FL? Yes, I was being facetious. I knew he identified himself at one point, but couldn't remember his name. Still, you have to admit that  "Fringe Lunatic"  fits. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,13:59    Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 10 2009,17:42) Though I've retired from full moderator status here, If you've retired & Teve Tory is MIA, who's wielding the power of life & death here now? Kristine? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:02    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 11 2009,19:59) Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 10 2009,17:42) Though I've retired from full moderator status here, If you've retired & Teve Tory is MIA, who's wielding the power of life & death here now? Kristine? Angling for a promotion? Louis -------------- Bye.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:16    If I am chosen as moderator, my first act will be to ban Louis. My second act will be to disemvowel all K.E.'s posts, on the theory that they should then make much more sense. Having done that, I will immediately resign. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:23    Moderatley good moderators: RBIll Bob O Zach Alan Fox Oleg lose Von Kannon Deadman932 sasanfrancis -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:37    Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 11 2009,12:23) Moderatley good moderators: RBIll Bob O Zach Alan Fox Oleg lose Von Kannon Deadman932 sasanfrancis Isn't there some guy in Texas with a floating command centre? -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:38    Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 11 2009,14:23) Moderatley good moderators: RBIll Bob O Zach Alan Fox Oleg lose Von Kannon Deadman932 sasanfrancis Yesss, YESSsss, my pretties. Place my name in consideration for king universal overlord moderator. I promise that you'd not be disappointed by my reign -- for I would rule with an IRON FIST   BWAHAHAHA!!shift1!! P.S. I'd refuse because I dislike moderating.  It's too much work, and a thankless task. Plus I'd have to put up with you lot, which wouldn't last too damn long, let me tell you. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:39    Quote (JohnW @ Sep. 11 2009,14:37) Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 11 2009,12:23) Moderatley good moderators: RBIll Bob O Zach Alan Fox Oleg lose Von Kannon Deadman932 sasanfrancis Isn't there some guy in Texas with a floating command centre? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:39    Evilutionists arguing over moderation? WATERLOO!!!11!!

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:41    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 11 2009,14:38) P.S. I'd refuse because of the above tendency towards absolute monarchy. Plus I dislike moderating. I only put you on the list as the token HOMO/mincer candidate. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,14:52    Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 11 2009,14:41) Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 11 2009,14:38) P.S. I'd refuse because of the above tendency towards absolute monarchy. Plus I dislike moderating. I only put you on the list as the token HOMO/mincer candidate. HAHA, I changed my post, now don't you look silly.   -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,15:01    Oh, so instead of Waterloo, it's Doom's Day?

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,15:03    HAR HAR THIS IS YOU: -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Jasper Posts: 76 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,15:11    Quote (Robin @ Sep. 11 2009,14:29)   Quote (Jasper @ Sep. 11 2009,10:23) "FL" are the initials of "Floyd A. Lee," a resident of Topeka, Kansas. He outed himself years ago on PT. Interestingly, here's an old article from the Topeka Capitol Journal written by someone named Floyd Lee.  I wonder if it was the same FL? Yes, I was being facetious. I knew he identified himself at one point, but couldn't remember his name. Still, you have to admit that  "Fringe Lunatic"  fits. IMO, he has also earned the moniker "Flagrant Liar."

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,15:42    just for gits and shiggles here is a nearly equally stupid comment on the very same thread tard I've almost quit reading the comments at PT over that doosh -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,17:56    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Sep. 11 2009,15:42) just for gits and shiggles here is a nearly equally stupid comment on the very same thread tard I've almost quit reading the comments at PT over that doosh FL gets absolutely nailed (esp. by csadams and Dan) making blatantly false claims. The weird, hilarious, and possibly creepy thing is that this doesn't phase FL in the least. Personally, I can't imagine saying (1) "this book says 'X' and makes no mention of 'Y,' " then (2) getting that proven false...and then (3) sauntering back in the thread as if nothing happened. That would be completely outside of my ethical/moral ken to even engage in (1) without good certainty based on closely reading the actual text.  And yet, FL doesn't even blink an eye, metaphorically speaking. It's AFDave, jr. Day-um. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,19:18    After wading through some of the threads on FL that y'all have linked to, I vote that we send Richardthugs 'round to give deadman 932 a good spankin' or something.   -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,19:49    Quote (afarensis @ Sep. 11 2009,19:18) After wading through some of the threads on FL that y'all have linked to, I vote that we send Richardthugs 'round to give deadman 932 a good spankin' or something.  :p Seriously, though: It's not really my fault. I didn't know and if I did, I didn't mean to. Plus there were extenuating circumstances. Society. Uh, I felt unloved as a child. I was possessed by spirits. Aliens. Yeah, that's it. Space demons. Satanic space demons controlled my brain. Anyway, <Homer> sure I'm flattered, maybe even a little curious. But the answer is no!</Homer> -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

csadams Posts: 124 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,19:58    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 11 2009,17:56) The weird, hilarious, and possibly creepy thing is that this doesn't phase FL in the least. Personally, I can't imagine saying (1) "this book says 'X' and makes no mention of 'Y,' " then (2) getting that proven false...and then (3) sauntering back in the thread as if nothing happened. The dissonance seems to be SOP for those who are so used to denying reality. As far as spanking deadman goes . . . um, why are you wanting to reward him?   -------------- Stand Up For REAL Science!

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,20:21    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 11 2009,19:49) Quote (afarensis @ Sep. 11 2009,19:18) After wading through some of the threads on FL that y'all have linked to, I vote that we send Richardthugs 'round to give deadman 932 a good spankin' or something.  :p Seriously, though: It's not really my fault. I didn't know and if I did, I didn't mean to. Plus there were extenuating circumstances. Society. Uh, I felt unloved as a child. I was possessed by spirits. Aliens. Yeah, that's it. Space demons. Satanic space demons controlled my brain. Anyway, <Homer> sure I'm flattered, maybe even a little curious. But the answer is no!</Homer> You have been forgetting to wear your tinfoil hat again haven't you? -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,21:47    Quote You have been forgetting to wear your tinfoil hat again haven't you? Well, at least he wasn't foiled again? Henry

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2009,22:17    Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 11 2009,21:47)   Quote You have been forgetting to wear your tinfoil hat again haven't you? Well, at least he wasn't foiled again? Henry Reminds me of the famous detective Gully Foyle, who was once investigating the mysterious suicide of a philosophy grad student. Oddly, it seemed the young man had literally choked to death -- by eating pages of a class text he'd been reading. It was Gully's faithful assistant, Guido, who reached a prying finger into the dead man's throat, dug out a chewed page and discovered the awful truth: "All Hume in 'im, Foyle," he said. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

jswilkins Posts: 50 Joined: June 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2009,00:31    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 12 2009,13:17) Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 11 2009,21:47)     Quote You have been forgetting to wear your tinfoil hat again haven't you? Well, at least he wasn't foiled again? Henry Reminds me of the famous detective Gully Foyle, who was once investigating the mysterious suicide of a philosophy grad student. Oddly, it seemed the young man had literally choked to death -- by eating pages of a class text he'd been reading. It was Gully's faithful assistant, Guido, who reached a prying finger into the dead man's throat, dug out a chewed page and discovered the awful truth: "All Hume in 'im, Foyle," he said. "All Hume in ee-im, Foyle"... -------------- Boldly staying where no man has stayed before.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2009,00:41    Furriners &  their language abuse. I was tyred and didn't have "look up variant pronunciations" on my shed-duel. Y'all should learn up on real American, dammit. And don't you try and start in on me, Louis, you Lobsterback. I'll sic the colonials on you. Edit: my lousy attempt at humor aside -- does anyone know where the final "i" sound in "al-u-min-i-um" disappeared to in American english "alu-min-um" ? Can we buy a vowel back? I'll haved to consult H.L. Mencken. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2009,16:50    Quote The different American spelling of what British English spells 'aluminium' sometimes cause puzzlement as to how it could have come about. This article tells that story. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2009,17:31    Quote (sledgehammer @ Sep. 12 2009,16:50) Quote The different American spelling of what British English spells 'aluminium' sometimes cause puzzlement as to how it could have come about. This article tells that story. I prefer Darwin's explanation. Quote Rudimentary organs may be compared with the letters in a word, still retained in the spelling, but become useless in the pronunciation, but which serve as a clue in seeking for its derivation. Which, if I understand him correctly, means that the British insert extra letters into words because they have rudimentary organs* * The possibility that I may have misinterpreted Darwin should be kept in mind. I doubt it, but anything is possible. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2009,22:21    Oi, this ("debate" crap)  has all the makings of a debacle. I should learn to keep me big mouth shut. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2009,23:08    Three pages? This is like a weekend-long birthday party for someone who never shows up. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,00:08    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 12 2009,22:21) Oi, this ("debate" crap)  has all the makings of a debacle. I should learn to keep me big mouth shut. Tard pimp, you're doing it wrong* * If that was on a LoL cat this thread could die a happy death... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,00:31    So, about that biblical perspective on biology: How many legs does an insect have? Does a rabbit (or close relative of such) chew a cud? Do bats have feathers? Do snakes talk? Do donkeys talk? Can a dove find a fresh grown leaf in an area that's been under water for many months? Can a large sea creature swallow somebody without digesting them?

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,04:33    I am afraid you have painted yourself into a corner you can't get out of without, well, you know what I mean. I agree with what was said here, but I had been hoping that there would be some agreement about eligible topics. My chin dropped however at reading           Quote Sincere thanks to all who provided input regarding topics. Is this what you wanted? ETA: At my "fairest in the land" ritual, my mirror gasped "as fair as ever, but what in the world happened to your jaw?" -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,07:56    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 12 2009,23:21) Oi, this ("debate" crap)  has all the makings of a debacle. I should learn to keep me big mouth shut. While the argument with the lying dirtbag holds no interest for me whatever, I'd be interested to know about your original motivation. What was the point of this? (I apologize if that sounds in any way harsh or hostile, it's not meant to be. I'm genuinely curious.) -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Keelyn Posts: 40 Joined: Feb. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,12:29    He (FL) probably will not even reply, anyway. Nine months from now he will post an explanation (lie) or an excuse (lie) of how he was distracted or too busy or forgot. If so, I will be a little disappointed - I sort of enjoy seeing FL get kicked around like a soccer ball. -------------- This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. -- Mark Twain

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,15:24    Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 13 2009,07:56)   Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 12 2009,23:21) Oi, this ("debate" crap)  has all the makings of a debacle. I should learn to keep me big mouth shut. While the argument with the lying dirtbag holds no interest for me whatever, I'd be interested to know about your original motivation. What was the point of this? (I apologize if that sounds in any way harsh or hostile, it's not meant to be. I'm genuinely curious.) Lou: I'd already written a semi-"explanation" (mea culpa) earlier in this thread ;   Quote Bleh. Okay, I'm going to assume FL = male. I'm responsible for inviting "FL" without having any real knowledge of his track record at PT or CARM or wherever. I just saw him posting at PT and disrupting a thread I was interested in. I didn't know it was a "regular" irritant there and my intent was to find a decent chew-toy.  I don't think this is it, but it might at least serve the purpose of keeping FL busy for a while. Maybe. I'm having real second thoughts after having read some of his claims and tactics.  (from here ) On reflection, I'd imagine that part of what puzzles you is that you already have a good working knowledge of "FL" from the Kansas episode, PT, or both and more. I didn't really have that same prior knowledge that you do. I was reading the comments here on RBH's write-up regarding the "bloggingheads' faux pas. I normally don't bother reading comments at PT. I saw a troll and pointed out that there's a whole forum for the kind of "debate" it was engaging in. That's really the sum of it. -------------------- The thing is that there's a LOT of trolls everywhere, on every anti-creo or pro-science forum I read stuff at. I generally don't read a lot of comments at EVERY site, and I tend to filter out trolls. Hell, I'd seen FL as "Mellotron " at Talk Rat and even posted in the same thread it was infesting...and had no clue it was "FL." Let's use Pharyngula as example. Lots of people read it, but in different ways. I rarely read through the comments -- but that's where the trolls dwell. Regular readers/posters ("regs") might *know* who the trolls are and might know/remember many of their names. I don't.     Similarly, I could easily imagine someone encountering "smooth operator" at Talk Rat and saying "hey why don't you debate that crap in the proper setting?" Or AFDave. Or Ray Martinez. They're not all exactly equivalent trolls, but they are all trolls, just the same. If you didn't know their track record and M.O. you'd find yourself in the same embarassing position I'm in. What I learned out of this was to not be so quick to "invite" and to check the track record first. I can understand a genuine perplexity on your part (as a mod or "reg") when you KNOW the troll in question. I just didn't do my homework and as I said in another post, this was a "perfect storm of stupid on my part." -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,15:37    So does this mean we can go back to drinking heavily and mocking the Arden/RTH/Carlson menage a horse? If so: Excellent! I propose vodka shots for every "HAR HAR this is you" and skulling a full beer for every LOLCat. Louis -------------- Bye.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,15:48    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 13 2009,15:37) So does this mean we can go back to drinking heavily and mocking the Arden/RTH/Carlson menage a horse? If so: Excellent! I propose vodka shots for every "HAR HAR this is you" and skulling a full beer for every LOLCat. Louis HA HA, THIS IS U  : -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,17:36    There is no debate. There is only mock. The fact that FL can generate 3 pages of mocking WITHOUT EVEN FUCKING SHOWING UP is BRILLIANT. (that took a lot of caps-on/caps-off work so appreciate it, please!) I hear Louis is buying vodka shots.  I'm in.  Srsly.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,17:58    Gotcha, Deadman. I didn't catch the whole lack of background thing, though I probably should have. Carry on with the vodka shots! -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,18:02    Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 13 2009,18:36) There is no debate. There is only mock. Indeed, though lately I'm pretty much over even that. I only have time for the one-fingered salute with a hearty "Fuck off, TARD". On a patient day, I might add, "Read a book, moron." Patient days are coming fewer and farther between, however. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,20:46    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 13 2009,13:48) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 13 2009,15:37) So does this mean we can go back to drinking heavily and mocking the Arden/RTH/Carlson menage a horse? If so: Excellent! I propose vodka shots for every "HAR HAR this is you" and skulling a full beer for every LOLCat. Louis HA HA, THIS IS U  : Let me fix that: HAR HAR THIS IS LOUIS: -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,21:36    Arden : You heartless bastard. Louis is my FRIEND, I'll have you know. As such, I demand grateful recognition of his unsurpassed amateur mycological skillz, which he is obviously employing in that very photo -- as he combs the soil intently for new fungal-based antibiotic cures to benefit all mankind !!1!moldy!11!! How DARE you, sir. ETA:   -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2009,22:35    And all of this has what to do with the serious debate for which this thread was intelligently designed? What? Oh. Never mind. Henry

FloydLee Posts: 577 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,01:15    Well, hello there!  My apologies; it's 12:35 am CST, and I'd meant to be logged in at least an hour or two ago.   So this is the legendary AtBC, hmm!  Looks like a most interesting saloon in which to conduct a gunfight.... And sincere thanks to Deadman for setting this up. *** Brief recap:  From tonite through Sun Nov 1, I will be explaining and defending the overall topic "Evolution Is Incompatible With Christianity" (including an emphasis on "the biblical perspective on biology"). followed afterwards by explaining and defending the overall topic "The ID Hypothesis is Science and should therefore be taught in Public School Science Classrooms.".   Mostly I'll be posting and responding at night, but sometimes in the daytime too.  By Nov. 1, my intention is to be finished discussing both topics.   Btw, I couldn't help but smile at Doc Bill's comment: Quote The fact that FL can generate 3 pages of mocking WITHOUT EVEN FUCKING SHOWING UP is BRILLIANT. Sounds like we all gonna have some fun up in here!   :)

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,02:24    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 14 2009,03:36) [SNIP] ...as he combs the soil intently for new fungal-based antibiotic cures to benefit all mankind !!1!moldy!11!! [/SNIP] Well at least THAT is true. It just so happens I am checking for useful secondary metabolite producing soil organisms whilst pissed as a mattress? Multitasking: I can does it. Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,02:26    Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 14 2009,00:02) Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 13 2009,18:36) There is no debate. There is only mock. Indeed, though lately I'm pretty much over even that. I only have time for the one-fingered salute with a hearty "Fuck off, TARD". On a patient day, I might add, "Read a book, moron." Patient days are coming fewer and farther between, however. I've noticed the same tendency in myself. Are we getting old? Anyway, back to the reason for the season.... {Hands round vodka shots} Louis -------------- Bye.

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,02:30    Hi Floyd.  Let me be the first to welcome you to teh swamp.  As you can probably tell, you've wandered in to the bar across the street from the debate hall.  The clientele have mostly passed out on the floor, and won't be awake to nurse their hangovers until about noon or so.  Deadman has set up a proper forum for you here, and will try to keep the riffraff out, or at least up in the peanut gallery/nosebleed seats.  Don't let the occasional "YOU LIE!!!!111!!!" from the ruffians in the peanut gallery throw you off script.  Let the showww begin! -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,02:31    Quote (FloydLee @ Sep. 14 2009,07:15) Well, hello there!  My apologies; it's 12:35 am CST, and I'd meant to be logged in at least an hour or two ago.   So this is the legendary AtBC, hmm!  Looks like a most interesting saloon in which to conduct a gunfight.... And sincere thanks to Deadman for setting this up. *** Brief recap:  From tonite through Sun Nov 1, I will be explaining and defending the overall topic "Evolution Is Incompatible With Christianity" (including an emphasis on "the biblical perspective on biology"). followed afterwards by explaining and defending the overall topic "The ID Hypothesis is Science and should therefore be taught in Public School Science Classrooms.".   Mostly I'll be posting and responding at night, but sometimes in the daytime too.  By Nov. 1, my intention is to be finished discussing both topics.   Btw, I couldn't help but smile at Doc Bill's comment: Quote The fact that FL can generate 3 pages of mocking WITHOUT EVEN FUCKING SHOWING UP is BRILLIANT. Sounds like we all gonna have some fun up in here!   :) Welcome FL, if you are who you say you are. After all, if creationist internet posters didn't exist it would be necessary to invent them. Louis -------------- Bye.

FloydLee Posts: 577 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,02:31    So, why should we start off with an honest, extended discussion/debate of "Evolution Is Incompatible With Christianity"? Because, first and foremost, that's the truth, as we shall see.   Secondly, because of the damage that evolution is doing to the faith of Christians (in some cases, former faith, as it has already been lost).   Evolution erodes and corrodes Christian faith.  Poisonously so.  Daniel Dennett was right: evolution is "The Universal Acid." No, evolution is not always the entire gig of why people lose their faith (after all, you're talking about an entire constellation of causes there). But evolution clearly seems to grease that overall slide downward.  It's a contributing corrosive factor, and it keeps on popping up in various personal testimonies.  Here's two examples.         Quote "As were many persons from Alabama, I was a born-again Christian.  When I was fifteen, I entered the Southern Baptist Church with great fervor and interest in the fundamentalist religion.  I left at seventeen when I got to the University of Alabama and heard about evolutionary theory." ---E.O. Wilson, The Humanist magazine, Sept. 1982         Quote "Evolution played an even more central role in torpedoing (Richard) Dawkins' Anglican when he was 15.  Dawkins says he had always assumed that the intricacy of living things meant God must have designed them, just as the English philosopher William Paley argued in his 1802 book "Natural Theology." Then Dawkins began to learn about evolution, and he realized that biology could explain life's apparent design without the need for a deity. "So finally it was Darwinism that did it for my religious faith," Dawkins said in an interview at Oxford University. ---Jeremy Manier, "The New Theology,", Chicago Tribune Online, Jan. 20, 2008 By the way, Manier's article also contains the sad story of Christian college professor (and theistic evolutionist)  Howard Van Till's fall from Christianity.  Might as well check that horror story out too:         Quote "If your faith requires supernaturalism, or a God who wields overpowering control over nature, then yes, evolution will challenge that," says Van Till, who took early retirement from Calvin College in 1999.   So since belief in the biblical Jesus automatically entails belief in supernaturalism (you know, supernatural miracles, including "overpowering control" of stormy winds and waves, and little things like, umm, rising from the dead), Van Till is effectively denying what the Bible clearly and foundationally said about Jesus himself.     At that point, you droppin' out of Christianity, folks.  You takin' the A-train straight to Eternal Hell-Fire on your Eternal Butt, and meanwhile thinkin' that you all enlightened, all scientific, and all cool on the tracks. You gotta be kidding.  All you're doing is proving that Evolution is NOT compatible with Christianity. And then there's the ultimate tragic back-sliding evolution example, Big Daddy Chuck Darwin himself, your patron saint.           Quote "That evolution erodes religious belief seems almost too obvious to require argument. It destroyed the faith of Darwin himself, who moved from Christianity to agnosticism as a result of his discoveries and was immediately recognized as a huge threat by his reverent contemporaries." ---Jacob Weisberg, Slate.com, Aug. 10, 2005 The details of evolution's tragic erosion and destruction of Charles Darwin's faith can be found here: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/darwin.html ****** So people we gotta get serious, I don't care what label you wear or don't wear.  Evolutionists from Eugenie Scott and her NCSE gang to the Freeman-Herron evolutionary biology textbook Evolutionary Analysis 4th edition are busy trying to sell you the snake-oiled scam that evolution is somehow compatible with Christianity, even though you can clearly see from the above examples that it is simply NOT compatible. So that's why we have to talk about it.  Some of YOU, sitting right there, already know that evolution has done some serious corroding and eroding on YOUR personal or former Christian beliefs too.  In fact, some of you used to be Christians but now are NO longer Christians---and evolution is a factor in there somewhere.   Shoot, every time some of you stick your evolutionist nose close to your keyboards, you keep getting faint whiffs of sulphur and brimstone.  Get a clue baby!! This is a tragedy.  This is an emergency.  And it's happening to science-loving, God-loving youth and young adults right now.  We gotta at least talk about it, assuming you got the cajones for such discussion. My next post will offer a short list of the primary reasons why evolution is not compatible with Christianity.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,02:53    Ooooh are we going to be saved? I haven't been saved in ages. I'm even mildly looking forward to the forthcoming crapfest. My, my, is that the sound of my hard bitten (and hard won!) cynicism regarding creationists cracking mildly? Louis -------------- Bye.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,02:53    Quote This is a tragedy.  This is an emergency.  And it's happening to science-loving, God-loving youth and young adults right now.  We gotta at least talk about it, assuming you got the cajones for such discussion. Even if we accept that is the case, what then? What do you propose replacing "Evolution" with exactly? Sure, provide reasons why you claim your religion is incompatible with evolution. Knock yourself out. However, what's the point unless you specify what you'd replace it with that would be compatible with both the physical evidence and your religion. As it seems to me the logical position to take (and one that many people have taken as you yourself note) is that if your particular religion and evolution are incompatible then your religion, not evolution, is wrong. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

FloydLee Posts: 577 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,03:18    Quote Ooooh are we going to be saved? I haven't been saved in ages. Oh no no, don't get me wrong dude.  I didn't come here to save anybody.  You wanna be Old Scratch's next piece of Pitchfork Shish-Ka-Bobbed Rump-Roast, I'm not gonna git in your way at all! Shoot, if savin' you guys were my intention up in here, I'd be all polite and circumspect in my choice of words within this peanut thread.  Heh! Nope, my intention here is simply to execute the two stated discussion/debate topics to the best of my ability by Nov 1.  The opportunity was graciously extended and so I'm here. Now I have promised to be civil, respectful and circumspect about it all in the main debate thread, and I will very seriously keep that promise.   I do value respectfulness and civility and my two favorite discussion forums (CARM and TCJ, btw), are quite seriously (and evenhandedly) moderated for precisely those two qualities. However, in this AtBC peanut thread, I might loosen up and go freestyle a bit, have a little fun, stick some ants in your evo-pants.  (Preferably solenopsis invicta, yes?)

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,03:46    Quote So, why should we start off with an honest, extended discussion/debate of "Evolution Is Incompatible With Christianity"? It seems pretty pointless to me. FL has his opinion, and he will not be persuaded otherwise, as years of interaction have shown. Others have different opinions, despite the various arguments and, more commonly, simple reiteration deployed by FL over those same years. Lenny Flank's questions would be apropos here, it seems. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,04:26    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 14 2009,09:46) Quote So, why should we start off with an honest, extended discussion/debate of "Evolution Is Incompatible With Christianity"? It seems pretty pointless to me. FL has his opinion, and he will not be persuaded otherwise, as years of interaction have shown. Others have different opinions, despite the various arguments and, more commonly, simple reiteration deployed by FL over those same years. Lenny Flank's questions would be apropos here, it seems. Lenny's questions, at least on this matter, are ALWAYS apropos. Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,04:33    Quote (FloydLee @ Sep. 14 2009,09:18)   Quote Ooooh are we going to be saved? I haven't been saved in ages. Oh no no, don't get me wrong dude.  I didn't come here to save anybody.  You wanna be Old Scratch's next piece of Pitchfork Shish-Ka-Bobbed Rump-Roast, I'm not gonna git in your way at all! [SNIP] Ladies and Gentlemen the first, Loving Christian ™, Threat of Hell ™. Believe as I do or die. Thank you Loving Christian ™, for all those options. FL, true to form, is delivering in spades. I'd say this is going to be fun. I'd be wrong if I did. This is, as predicted, going to be "interesting" as defined above. Louis ETA: Why do I get the impression that FL's presence here is the internet's equivalent of AtBC catching syphilis? I chose that disease deliberately, it has specific effects on the nervous system... -------------- Bye.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,05:36    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 14 2009,03:46) Quote So, why should we start off with an honest, extended discussion/debate of "Evolution Is Incompatible With Christianity"? It seems pretty pointless to me. FL has his opinion, and he will not be persuaded otherwise, as years of interaction have shown. Others have different opinions, despite the various arguments and, more commonly, simple reiteration deployed by FL over those same years. Lenny Flank's questions would be apropos here, it seems. It does seem pointless. If I'd have been smarter, I'd have bothered to check on who he was. Instead -- in my ignorance -- I did precisely the wrong thing. However, now that he's accepted my stupid invitation, I have only bad choices as to how to handle it, and I apologize for the entire thing. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,05:38    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 14 2009,04:33) I chose that disease deliberately, it has specific effects on the nervous system... I will feed him and groom him and take him out for walks, and I will call him "Twitchy." -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,06:27    Enough with the mea culpa's, Squirrel Boy! I for one Deadman am perfectly happy with what you did. We haven't had a creationist chum for a while here. Granted, new, exciting, less wilfully stupid and obstinate creationist chums are always preferred to old, dull, arse-quakingly reliant on quote mining, and stubbornly unintelligent creationist chums, but hey, when life gives you stupid fucking lemons, you make stupid fucking lemonade. I'm sorry. I know FL is a human being, a wonderful, unique snowflake and thus deserving of my kindness and civility, and I shall struggle to elevate my curmudgeonly self to appropriate levels of such. But dammit wilful, active ignorance and stupidity piss me off. Disagreement I can handle, I *LIKE* disagreement. It makes for fun debate and discussion, which is after all what I came here for many moons ago. (By "here" I mean Teh Intertubez not just the wonderful drunken debauchery and never ending series of puns and mum jokes that is AtBC). But, tragically, there does come a point when you realise that you are trying to have a rational debate with people that are simply incapable of it. Then the misanthropy sets is. I wonder how Wes maintains his cheery demeanour in the face of staggering mendignostupitude*. He's been at the forefront of this for a long old while. I'm guessing massive amounts of drugs. Louis *Neologisms, not my strong point. Mendignostupitude is a specific combination of mendacity, stupidity and ignorance that is actively maintained, even claimed to be desirable. The maintenance of such traits must be done openly, wilfully, and stubbornly. Mere native stupidity is not required, the person can be very intelligent, but they must be actively TRYING to be stupid. The combination must be displayed with an attitude of perfect righteousness. People exhibiting this quality habitually fall back on false accusations of tu quoque, appeals to mystery, personal ignorance, persecution and most importantly conspiracy. Mendignostupitude is a hallmark of all species of denialist. -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,06:28    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 14 2009,11:38) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 14 2009,04:33) I chose that disease deliberately, it has specific effects on the nervous system... I will feed him and groom him and take him out for walks, and I will call him "Twitchy." Is his Native American name* not more appropriate? Louis *Dribbles With Ignorance? ETA: DAMN! That little personal promise lasted all of ten seconds. I am a bad person and deserve to be spanked. I shall call up Mistress Spanky McDiscipline immediately for appropriate punishment. I promise that I have been a very bad boy and will in no way enjoy myself. -------------- Bye.

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,07:00    Who cares if evolution is incompatible with Christianity (or Islam, or Zoroastrianism, or Pastafarianism, for that matter)? It is compatible with the evidence. This whole thing is a argumentum ad consequentiam. FL doesn't like the consequences of reality. It makes his interpretation of non-reality difficult. Big deal. Why should we care if he can't deal with reality? -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,07:02    Quote Believe as I do or die That's getting off easy.  Everyone dies; FL's loving god would have you tortured infinitely, forever, for your crime of coming to your own conclusions about how the universe works. Don't blame FL though, he's been held captive by Jebus for so long that he's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,08:25    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 14 2009,06:27) Enough with the mea culpa's, Squirrel Boy! I for one Deadman am perfectly happy with what you did. We haven't had a creationist chum for a while here. Granted, new, exciting, less wilfully stupid and obstinate creationist chums are always preferred to old, dull, arse-quakingly reliant on quote mining, and stubbornly unintelligent creationist chums, but hey, when life gives you stupid fucking lemons, you make stupid fucking lemonade. I second what Louis said,  - Don't apologize - and give a huge "Whew"... That could be me dammit, if BA^77 had accepted the challenge a couple of weeks ago - and we could use another Creo For Christ to play with.   I wonder if FL can flounce out as good as FTK? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

SLP Posts: 136 Joined: Dec. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,08:41    Came across this while perusing some of Floyd's past forays: ********************* Please read the following passage and answer the question that follows: In the mid-1800s, Darwin showed how the concept of evolution by natural selection applies to living systems. But evolution also operates in the inanimate world, not only Earth but the universe as a whole, including all cosmic bodies (galaxies, stars, circumstellar and interstellar clouds, interstellar molecules, planetary systems, planets, comets, asteroids, meteorites) and all chemical elements. Comets transported organic molecules and water to the primitive Earth early in the planet's history, presumably over a period of several hundred million years. In the oceans that then formed, both cometary and terrestrial (those synthesized directly in the environment) organic molecules evolved by natural selection, ultimately giving rise to life - possibly in the "warm little pond" that Darwin envisioned in his famous letter to Joseph Hooker (see chapter 3). The linkage from cosmic elements to cometary molecules to primitive Earth to biological evolution ties cosmochemical evolution to the origin of life. Does the above passage indicate to you that: 1. The author sees evolution by natural selection as a 'basic' phenomenon/concept that has applications to biology, cosmology; both animate/living and inanimate/non-living things and thus as a concept, 'evolution' ties all all these areas together 2. The author is indicating that abiogenesis/cosmochemical evolution are part of the Theory of Evolution as put forth by Darwin ********************* The question is asked because Floyd likes to take snippets from that quote to claim that evolution (as such) definitley includes abiogenesis, and we all know that if you can find problems with abiogenesis, therefore, you've found problems with evolution: *************** He's referring to his fantasy wherein Oro's quote (Mello only ever quotes this part: "...organic molecules evolved by natural selection, ultimately giving rise to life - possibly in the "warm little pond" that Darwin envisioned in his famous letter to Joseph Hooker (see chapter 3)." except that he leaves off the ellipses in the beginning and capitalizes Organic) really means that abiogenesis is part and parcel of Biological evolution and thus if he can carry on about a bunch of 'problems' with abiogenesis, he has thus refuted evolution as well. He insists that he is interpeteing Oro correctly when he comes to that conclusion. ***************

SLP Posts: 136 Joined: Dec. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,08:53    Oooo - that one musta hurt, eh Floyd?

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,09:10    Quote (SLP @ Sep. 14 2009,08:53) Oooo - that one musta hurt, eh Floyd? Yep... Cherryl pretty much hands FL his ass, and we have the smoking gun proof of FL's Lots Of Lying For Jesus. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,10:02    Quote (SLP @ Sep. 14 2009,08:53) Oooo - that one musta hurt, eh Floyd? -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

SLP Posts: 136 Joined: Dec. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,10:17    Not that it will matter, of course.   If you are familiar with FL/Mellotron's antics re: the Oro quote, you wil know that neither context nor common sense will deter his invincible ignorance.

JohnK Posts: 13 Joined: Mar. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,10:30    Quote (FloydLee @ Sep. 14 2009,02:31) Manier's article also contains the sad story of Christian college professor (and theistic evolutionist)  Howard Van Till's fall from Christianity.   Might as well check that horror story out too. As anyone can see (Jeremy Manier, "The New Theology", Chicago Tribune, Jan. 20, 2008), Manier's article also contains the views of christian theistic evolutionists Francis Collins, Simon Conway Morris, John Haught, Ken Miller, Thomas Berry, etc. Even in his very first debate post, FL couldn't restrain from his standard practice of selective quotations and cherrypicking, rewriting his own horror story over and over.

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,10:34    "Speaking  to  a  group  of  Italian  priests  ..." Good post Deadman. Why you wanted a new chewtoy is beyond me, but you did promise to clean up after him. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,11:10    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Sep. 14 2009,08:00) Who cares if evolution is incompatible with Christianity (or Islam, or Zoroastrianism, or Pastafarianism, for that matter)? It is compatible with the evidence. This whole thing is a argumentum ad consequentiam. FL doesn't like the consequences of reality. It makes his interpretation of non-reality difficult. Big deal. Why should we care if he can't deal with reality? he seems to be oblivious to the fact that religious claims don't make contact with empirical reality and therefore can be contorted to fit whatever facts there may be available. poor sap pobby thinks the 10 commandments were really written in stone -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Keelyn Posts: 40 Joined: Feb. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,12:11    FL said: “…Evolution Is Incompatible With Christianity? Because, first and foremost, that's the truth, as we shall see.” No, as has been demonstrated to the point of ad nauseam, that is not the truth. That is lie number one (you are off to an unsurprising start). It is only true for you and other Sunday fundies who happen to share your particular interpretation of Christianity – hardly a universal truth. But, simply for the sake of argument, even if it was true, so what? Evolutionary biology is a science (whether you wish to acknowledge that fact or not is irrelevant) supported by volumes of facts and evidence, i.e., reality. It doesn’t matter whether it conflicts (even universally) with Christian dogma or not. ToE is no more, or less, contradictory to your beliefs than quantum theory or Lambda CDM\Big Bang theory. In any of the cases mentioned, so what? Scientific facts and evidence are just that – facts and evidence (again, reality). What you are apparently advocating is that reality be dismissed in favor of centuries old religious dogma. Are you totally oblivious to how patently stupid that is? I can’t attribute that kind of inane thought processing to ignorance; on the contrary, it falls squarely at the high end of the stupid spectrum. I have to assume that your particular belief system is the result of intense childhood indoctrination and not something you acquired in the midst of adulthood. Having been raised by ultra-liberal, reality oriented, but god believing parents, my brother and I were spared being spoon-fed any of your fundamentalist garbage. I can’t personally speak for my younger brother, he died too young to have formulated a serious opinion, but I have no doubt that my own devout, apathetic agnosticism is a direct result of my parents telling me the real truth about things I questioned – and for that I thank them. Which leads me to your second lie: “Evolution erodes and corrodes Christian faith. Poisonously so. Daniel Dennett was right: evolution is "The Universal Acid."” Wrong. It obviously hasn’t corroded your faith or others who fervently believe as you do. As for most other people, they do not see a conflict between evolution and their faith to begin with, therefore your statement doesn’t even apply. As for those who may have abandoned fundamentalist nonsense in favor of reality …wonderful. That’s not an erosion, it’s blessing! It’s called enlightenment to the truths of the Universe. It also means that there is one less self-appointed, self-righteous moralist standing on self-anointed high ground, hell bent to deny equal opportunities and benefits to people like me. If all of Christendom evaporated into oblivion this afternoon, who (other than you and your ilk) would really care? It would simply be the demise of an institution that has, for centuries, caused more harm, divisiveness, and strife then any appreciable benefit. The rest of your biblical babble rant you have posted a thousand times before – it’s all ridiculous and no more relevant now then it was before. Nonsense about supernatural miracles that have absolutely no compelling evidence of support, childish scare tactics about hell, stupid remarks like Darwin being a patron saint (I don’t worship dead people – even ones who have made monumental contributions to science and humanity – I admire and respect them …worshiping dead people is something you do), and the imagined tragedy and emergency to today’s youth being corrupted by real science (it hasn’t corrupted me). And the only time I get a whiff of sulfur is when my grandfather lights a match for his pipe. So, why don’t you get a clue and drop the “incompatibility argument” (you are merely voicing a personal opinion that is no more valid than any other opinion) and just move on to the “ID is science” nonsense. At least that would be somewhat more …interesting. No more compelling, but maybe a little more interesting (or not). Any chance? -------------- This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. -- Mark Twain