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Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,12:36    Quote (Zachriel @ Feb. 07 2008,06:48)   Quote Berceuse: You know, I’d believe the “humans are animals” thing if someone pointed out a single species that does everything we do, even something as simple as laughing. You're in luck! Turns out that non-human animals laugh. However, the vocalization is quite different. Humans are animals. Gerry shows us how to move the goal posts.   Quote Gerry Rzeppa: It’s utterly ridiculous to liken the “panting” of chimps and the “chirping” of rats to the appreciation of irony and the recognition of conceptual incongruity involved in the human sense of humor. When asked for laughter, and then provided laughter, he then says we need to demonstrate an appreciation for irony. Yet chimpanzees do know about pretense and how to tease. They also seem to enjoy slapstick. Gerry then demonstrates the unique subtleties and richness of human humor. Quote Gerry Rzeppa: Ask your cat why the chicken crossed the road. Ha! Ha! -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,12:51    Quote (Annyday @ Feb. 07 2008,10:57) I can change pictures into abstract pictures, therefore random mutation can't make information! Anyone care to guess what exactly he's applied to the picture? I'm curious, and it looks damn cool, but it doesn't fit neatly into anything I know of. I can't answer your question as to what they used, but your comment is ironic, considering Quote I think the computer simulation of evolution has grossly degraded the CSI contained in the original picture in an irreversible manner. This is the type of thing that evolution is good at doing, and it is hardly a process I would let loose on biological systems if I were seeking improvements! They don't like abstract expressionism, I guess. I wonder if they would see "less information" in a Pollock than a Turner. They sure like to do weird things to Darwin images and dolls, BTW.   -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Richard Simons Posts: 425 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,12:55    Quote (Zachriel @ Feb. 07 2008,12:36) Yet chimpanzees do know about pretense and how to tease. They also seem to enjoy slapstick. Not just chimps. Our dogs have done what could only be dog jokes, for example the time when our dog was told to get in the back of the station wagon, where she normally travelled. She quickly sprinted to the front passenger door, jumped in and bounced over the seats into the back, where she sat looking pleased. She has also grabbed the back leg of our other dog as he was jumping into a lake, with gratifying results. -------------- All sweeping statements are wrong.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,13:01    Quote (Richard Simons @ Feb. 07 2008,13:55) Quote (Zachriel @ Feb. 07 2008,12:36) Yet chimpanzees do know about pretense and how to tease. They also seem to enjoy slapstick. Not just chimps. Our dogs have done what could only be dog jokes, for example the time when our dog was told to get in the back of the station wagon, where she normally travelled. She quickly sprinted to the front passenger door, jumped in and bounced over the seats into the back, where she sat looking pleased. She has also grabbed the back leg of our other dog as he was jumping into a lake, with gratifying results. Agreed. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Venus Mousetrap Posts: 201 Joined: Aug. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,13:22    Quote (Annyday @ Feb. 07 2008,11:57) I can change pictures into abstract pictures, therefore random mutation can't make information! Anyone care to guess what exactly he's applied to the picture? I'm curious, and it looks damn cool, but it doesn't fit neatly into anything I know of. I've just commented on it (and note the difference between URL and title, someone got there quick :) ). I love the way he wants to say that evolution decreases information, but can't back himself up with math. It looks like the filters applied on evolving art; picbreeder is a fun site for that. Quote 1 Venus Mousetrap 02/07/2008 2:02 pm I have seen these evolving pictures before, and they’re actually quite fun, but I haven’t seen people try to evolve an existing picture. It doesn’t make sense to. What they have probably done is taken the picture, and run it into randomly generated functions - it’s actually the function that is evolving, not the picture. At every step, a human selects which one they like best - directed selection - and the process repeats. So this is actually ID, not evolution. I’m not sure about the CSI decreasing, however. Anyone able to get values of the CSI for each picture?

C.J.O'Brien Posts: 395 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,13:25    Gawd, Berlinski is such a smug, disingenuous twit, isn't he? Quote The idea that science is a uniquely self-critical institution is of course preposterous. Scientists are no more self-critical than anyone else. Notice the bat-and-switch, right off the bat. He blatantly conflates the "institution" of science with "scientists." Let's try this: "The idea that baseball, as a sport, is uniquely amenable to statistical analysis is of course preposterous. Baseball players are no more experts in statistics than any other athletes." Sounds pretty stupid. Quote They hate to be criticized… Look, these people are only human, they hate criticism — me too. The idea that scientists are absolutely eager to be beaten up is one of the myths put out by scientists, and it works splendidly so they can avoid criticism. Yeah, they hate to be crticized --especially by pompous ignoramouses with no expertise in the field. And they may well, depending on individual personalities, hate to be criticized by scientists in their field. But, and this is crucial, do they also hate to criticize? And are they aware, whatever their own personal feelings, that progress in the field (any field) depends on vigorous critical exchanges between investigators? What does Berlinski think goes on at all these national conferences? Lots of backslapping bonhomie, no doubt. Nary a voice raised, not a disagreement to be had. Right, Dave. And that last line... I've got a brilliant idea! We'll tell everyone we just loooove criticism, can't get enough of it... so then, nobody will criticize us! QED. Logic, Dave. You're doing it wrong. There's lots more to say about this execrable bit of inellectually-bankrupt swill. But it's so obvious, I have trouble caring, I guess. -------------- The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand. --Joe G

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,13:41    From Denyse On Darwin Day. http://post-darwinist.blogspot.com/2008....in.html Mindless and Priceless.   The Founder Of Evolution Sunday posts a reply to her inanities. There is a nice quote from Rev. Hipple that she replies to.  Then one of her sycophants tells her the Good Rev is satire, but of course she didn't get it. She also brags about holding up a comment from a "fellow Catholic", because he disagreed with her - about par for the ID course, I'd say. The Mindless Hick.  Someone needs to stop her.  Before she posts again.  Do it for the kids. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,14:07    I swear that woman gets dumber by the minute. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,15:46    Quote You have the opportunity to help launch Expelled into the all time top 10 of theater released documentaries. Bwahaha! Did they think to check out that top 10? Quote 1 Fahrenheit 9/11 2 March of the Penguins 3 Sicko 4 An Inconvenient Truth 5 Bowling for Columbine   6 Madonna: Truth or Dare 7 Winged Migration 8 Super Size Me   9 Mad Hot Ballroom 10 Hoop Dreams Oh, lot's'oluckwiththat! Does Stein think teh librul treehuggers in the Garden will let him stay? (OMG, Truth or Dare? If Stein doesn’t break that, he may as well enter the witness protection program. Or rename his film Truthiness and Darey-ness – or Derriere-iness.) (That's his producer on the left. Yeah, what were you thinking? Pluck’d that fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad Ratings, didn’t you dude? Happy now?) -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,16:13    Go to Evolution News N Views baby! and read Geoffrey Simmons response to the debate with PZ. It is hilarious.  In short, "PZ and his kind are not nice and PZ did not admit he's wrong about everything!" It's both childish and ignorant to be sure. -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

PTET Posts: 133 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,17:09    Quote mike1962 02/07/2008 5:09 pm ...darwinist materialists often act hypocritically when they seek to maintain a reputation of loving truth where ever the facts lead, when, in fact, they often engage in lies, deceit, half-truth, character assassination, political maniputation, etc., for their own ends. Some of us think they should be taken to task for it. It’s time to make a cord of whips. A chord of whips? Looks like all of UD is heading for a Friday Meltdown... -------------- "It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time. Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,17:20    Quote (PTET @ Feb. 07 2008,17:09) Quote mike1962 02/07/2008 5:09 pm ...darwinist materialists often act hypocritically when they seek to maintain a reputation of loving truth where ever the facts lead, when, in fact, they often engage in lies, deceit, half-truth, character assassination, political maniputation, etc., for their own ends. Some of us think they should be taken to task for it. It’s time to make a cord of whips. A chord of whips? Looks like all of UD is heading for a Friday Meltdown... EDITZ - no one at UD seems to care about Paul Nelson's presentation (surprise!) and even few seem to give a rat's about Dembski's obsession with making "Expelled" a blockbuster hit. -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

PTET Posts: 133 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,18:34    From the Wistar thread...     Quote bFast 02/07/2008 3:44 pm Bevets, this is pretty cool. ‘Seems that without even observing the evolution of an irreduceably complex system, Ann Gauger has falsified the unfalsifiable ID. Not bad work! bFast is spinning hard. ID's own labs finding beneficial mutations is a good thing for ID. Clearly he's not taking his logic far enough. Since beneficial mutations don't occur in nature, clearly the capacity for this beneficial mutation was front-loaded in its DNA by the Designer itself. Obvious when you think about it. -------------- "It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time. Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,18:37    Quote (Zachriel @ Feb. 07 2008,12:36)   Quote (Zachriel @ Feb. 07 2008,06:48)       Quote Berceuse: You know, I’d believe the “humans are animals” thing if someone pointed out a single species that does everything we do, even something as simple as laughing. You're in luck! Turns out that non-human animals laugh. However, the vocalization is quite different. Humans are animals. Gerry shows us how to move the goal posts.     Quote Gerry Rzeppa: It’s utterly ridiculous to liken the “panting” of chimps and the “chirping” of rats to the appreciation of irony and the recognition of conceptual incongruity involved in the human sense of humor. When asked for laughter, and then provided laughter, he then says we need to demonstrate an appreciation for irony. Yet chimpanzees do know about pretense and how to tease. They also seem to enjoy slapstick. Gerry then demonstrates the unique subtleties and richness of human humor.   Quote Gerry Rzeppa: Ask your cat why the chicken crossed the road. Ha! Ha! AFDave tried to use this tack and got smacked too. -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

silverspoon Posts: 123 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2008,20:17    I like how Granny Spice links to an organization (The Fire) concerned with academic freedom, free speech and due process on collage campuses, yet the site is mum about Guillermo Gonzalez’s plight. Close your eyes Denyse, click your heals together three times and say --- I wish they would, I wish they would. -------------- Grand Poobah of the nuclear mafia

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,00:44    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,12:07)     Quote (Lou FCD @ Feb. 07 2008,11:29)       Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,10:57) The ARN thread at UD where they are begging people to find creative ways to put money in Ben Stein's pocket is very funny indeed. You mean the one that now only has one comment? Yes the one comment where the guy wants financial assistance. My favorite line from that posting: "...Ben Stein does not spend two hours showing you selective data and then try to convince you that you should believe ID instead of Darwin." I have to thank Mr. Wagner for leading us to that list of best selling documentaries, though.  I particularly recommend #20-Step Into Liquid and #38-Riding Giants.  There are some awsomely beautiful shots in each.  You won't find two better surfing documentaries. #46, Koyaanisqatsi, is very good too, in a rather perverse way.  The title means something like "Life out of balance" in a southwestern indian dialect and it's supposed to be decrying modern life, but I just thought it was beautiful.  It's also moving in spots.  Rent it and see if you don't weep as the poor little rocket motor falls and falls and falls to its ultimate destruction. For DaveTard, I recommend #98, Pumping Iron 2: The Women.  Or maybe the original Pumping Iron: Ahnold Flexes His Man Muscles.

J. O'Donnell Posts: 98 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,01:17    Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2008,00:44) For DaveTard, I recommend #98, Pumping Iron 2: The Women.  Or maybe the original Pumping Iron: Ahnold Flexes His Man Muscles. I take it you'll be watching him while he does of course. I know your ways >: ( -------------- My blog: Animacules

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,03:00    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,16:13) Go to Evolution News N Views baby! and read Geoffrey Simmons response to the debate with PZ. It is hilarious.  In short, "PZ and his kind are not nice and PZ did not admit he's wrong about everything!" It's both childish and ignorant to be sure. That article contains a lot of deep tard.  I think the good doctor sums it up well in his first line: "Against Stupidity, God Himself Is Helpless".  I'll add that stupidity combined with ignorance pretty well cleans God's clock. Professor Myers comments on Doc Simmons.

PTET Posts: 133 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,04:35    Quote Jerry 02/08/2008 5:02 am ...If the genomes of various species of a genera or family (such as cichlids, birds, various types of mammals) get sequenced and the gene pools of these species show only a reduction in the gene pools of the species from the estimated gene pools of the original ancestors, such research would obviate the creativity of the modern theory of evolution. If it shows that the gene pools of all the species in these families do not exhibit any creative elements but only reductions in the gene pool from some prior larger set, then this is ID supportive research. Such research is going on in the biology labs today all over the planet and like Lenski, the researchers would probably be upset to know that they are doing pro ID research... Any biologists out there who can help on this one? Has (by Jerry's argument) ID already been refuted by Lenski? -------------- "It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time. Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,05:33    Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2008,00:44) #46, Koyaanisqatsi, is very good too, in a rather perverse way.  The title means something like "Life out of balance" in a southwestern indian dialect and it's supposed to be decrying modern life, but I just thought it was beautiful.  It's also moving in spots.  Rent it and see if you don't weep as the poor little rocket motor falls and falls and falls to its ultimate destruction. Not to discourage anyone, but it is best experienced on the large screen. I actually had the experience, when living in Columbus, of seeing the movie with the Phillip Glass Ensemble playing the music live.   My favorite scene, if memory serves, was the juxtaposition of hotdogs moving along a factory conveyor with people jammed onto a escalator going into a subway station. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,06:16    Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 08 2008,06:33)   Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2008,00:44) #46, Koyaanisqatsi, is very good too, in a rather perverse way.  The title means something like "Life out of balance" in a southwestern indian dialect and it's supposed to be decrying modern life, but I just thought it was beautiful.  It's also moving in spots.  Rent it and see if you don't weep as the poor little rocket motor falls and falls and falls to its ultimate destruction. Not to discourage anyone, but it is best experienced on the large screen. I actually had the experience, when living in Columbus, of seeing the movie with the Phillip Glass Ensemble playing the music live.   My favorite scene, if memory serves, was the juxtaposition of hotdogs moving along a factory conveyor with people jammed onto a escalator going into a subway station. I third the recommendation on Koyannisqatsi, both moving and depressingly apocalyptic. A wonderful descendant is the film Baraka, which (IIRC) was subsequently made by Koyannisqutsi's cinematographer in 70mm. In addition to playing with accelerated and slowed time it integrates motion control cameras, which enables tracking shots during time lapse sequences (e.g., a time lapse view of a starry sky pinwheeling around as the camera tracks out from under a natural bridge.) Music by Michael Sterns, Dead Can Dance, etc. When viewing it in the theater I involuntarily exclaimed aloud at the beauty of some of the images (in one case, the camera tracking through a mosque). The linked page describes the film and includes many stills. Locations included: Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Centre, Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tucson, Arizona, USA Ahmadi, Kuwait American Express Corporation, Phoenix, Arizona, USA Angkor Thom, Cambodia Angkor Wat, Cambodia Angkor, Cambodia Arches National Park, Moab, Utah, USA Auschwitz, Poland Australia Auytthaya Province, Thailand Bali, Indonesia Bang Pa-ln, Thailand Bangkok, Thailand Barrio Mapasingue, Ecuador Bathurst Island, Northern Territory, Australia Bayon, Cambodia Beijing, China Bhaktapur, Nepal Big Sur, California, USA Bodnath, Nepal Borobudur, Indonesia Burgan Field, Kuwait Bytom, Poland Caiapó Village, Pará, Brazil Cairo, Egypt Calcutta, West Bengal, India Caldad Blanca Cementerio, Ecuador Candi Nandi, Indonesia Candi Perwara, Indonesia Canyon de Chelly National Monument, Chinle, Arizona, USA Canyonlands National Park, Moab, Utah, USA Carajás Animal Reserve, Pará, Brazil Cathedral, Chartres, Eure-et-Loir, France Cathedral, Reims, Marne, France Central Australia, Australia Chartres, Eure-et-Loir, France Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India Church of the Holy Sepulchre, Jerusalem, Israel City of the Dead, Egypt Cocinda, Northern Territory, Australia Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tucson, Arizona, USA Durbar Square, Nepal Emam Mosque, Iran Empire State Building - 350 Fifth Avenue, Manhattan, New York City, New York, USA Favela da Rocinha, Rio de Janeiro City, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Galapagos Islands, Ecuador Galata Mevlevi Temple, Istanbul, Turkey Ganges River, India General De Guayaquil, Ecuador Ghats, India Grand Central Station, Manhattan, New York City, New York, USA Great Hall of the People, China Green Plaza Capsule Hotel, Japan Greenhaven Correctional Facility, Greenhaven, New York, USA Guayaquil, Ecuador Hagia Sophia, Istanbul, Turkey Haleakalä National Park, Maui, Hawaii, USA Hanuman Ghat, Nepal Helmsley Building - 250 Park Avenue, Manhattan, New York City, New York, USA Himalayas, Nepal Hokke-Ji Temple, Japan Iguazú waterfalls, Argentina Ipanema, Rio de Janeiro City, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Isfahan, Iran Istanbul, Turkey JR Shinjuku Station, Japan JVE Yokosuka Factory, Japan Jadarta-Istigial Mosque, Indonesia Jahra Road - Mitla Ridge, Kuwait Java, Indonesia Jerusalem, Israel Jim Jim Falls, Northern Territory, Australia Jogjakarta-Prambanan, Indonesia Kailashnath Temple, India Kakadu National Park, Northern Territory, Australia Kasunanan Palace, Indonesia| Kathmandu, Nepal Kediri Tabanan, Indonesia Kediri-Gudang Gama Cigarette Factory, Indonesia Kitt Peak National Observatory, Arizona, USA Kona, Hawai`i, Hawaii, USA Kowloon, Hong Kong, China Kunwarde Hwarde Valley, Northern Territory, Australia Kyoto, Japan Lake Magadi, Kenya Lake Natron, Tanzania Li River, China Los Angeles, California, USA Luxor, Egypt Mancan Padi, Indonesia Mara Kichwan Tembo Manyatta, Kenya Mara Rianta Manyatta, Kenya Massai Mara, Kenya Maui, Hawaii, USA Mecca, Saudi Arabia Meiji Shrine, Japan Mesa Verde National Park, Colorado, USA Mount Everest, Nepal Mount Tramserku, Nepal Mt. Bromo Valley, Indonesia NMB Factory, Thailand Nagano Springs, Japan Nara, Japan National Museum of India, New Delhi, India New York City, New York, USA Nittaku, Japan Northern Territory, Australia Oakland, California, USA Pasupati, Nepal| Patpong, Thailand Peabody Coal Mine, Black Mesa, Arizona, USA Persepolis, Iran Phnom Penh, Cambodia Phoenix, Arizona, USA Porto Velho, Rondônia, Brazil Presh Khan, Cambodia Pu`u`ö`ö, Hawai`i Volcanoes National Park, Hawai`i, Hawaii, USA Pyramids at Giza, Egypt Qin Shi Huang, China Quilin, China Ramasseum, Egypt Reims, Marne, France Represa Samuel/Dam & Lake, Rondônia, Brazil Rio Preto, Minas Gerais, Brazil Rio de Janeiro City, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Ryoan-Ji Temple, Japan Sangho-Ji Temple, Japan Shahcherach Mosque, Iran Shiprock, New Mexico, USA Shiraz, Iran Siem Reap, Cambodia Soi Cowboy, Thailand Sonsam Kosal Killing Fields, Cambodia Sormville, New York, USA St. Peter Basilica, Vatican City Swayambhu, Nepal São Paulo City, São Paulo, Brazil Ta Proum, Cambodia Tampak Siring, Indonesia Tegal Allang, Indonesia Temple Gunung Kawi, Indonesia Temple of Karnak, Egypt Temple of Luxor, Egypt Tiananmen Square, Beijing, China Tiwi Tribe, Northern Territory, Australia Tokyo, Japan Tomoe Shizung & Hakutobo, Japan Tonle Omm Gate, Cambodia Tuol Sleng Museum, Cambodia Uluru / Ayers Rock, Kata Tjuta National Park, Northern Territory, Australia Uluru National Park, Northern Territory, Australia Uluwatu, Indonesia Vandharajan Temple, Varanasi, India Varanasi, Uttar Pradesh, India Vatican City Wat Arun, Thailand Wat Suthat, Thailand Western Wall, Jerusalem, Israel White House, Arizona, USA World Trade Center, Manhattan, New York City, New York, USA Xi'an, China Yamanouchi-Machi Town Office, Japan Yellow Water, Northern Territory, Australia Zoujou-Ji Temple, Japan -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,06:16    Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2008,03:00)   Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,16:13) Go to Evolution News N Views baby! and read Geoffrey Simmons response to the debate with PZ. It is hilarious.  In short, "PZ and his kind are not nice and PZ did not admit he's wrong about everything!" It's both childish and ignorant to be sure. That article contains a lot of deep tard.  I think the good doctor sums it up well in his first line: "Against Stupidity, God Himself Is Helpless".  I'll add that stupidity combined with ignorance pretty well cleans God's clock. Professor Myers comments on Doc Simmons. I prefer the Schiller version. ::: Folly, thou conquerest, and I must yield! Against stupidity the very gods Themselves contend in vain. Exalted reason, Resplendent daughter of the head divine, Wise foundress of the system of the world, Guide of the stars, who art thou then if thou, Bound to the tail of folly's uncurbed steed, Must, vainly shrieking with the drunken crowd, Eyes open, plunge down headlong in the abyss. Accursed, who striveth after noble ends, And with deliberate wisdom forms his plans! To the fool-king belongs the world. ::: I suppose it's better to make the religious attribution then to make one to an enlightenment poet. -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,06:19    As always happens in discussions of academic freedom at UD, Rick Sternberg is paraded as an ID martyr.  Daniel King asks: Quote Does anyone know what Sternberg is doing now? Richard von Sternberg has served out his term (5-Jan-04 to 4-Jan-07) as a Research Associate at the Smithsonian and is now serving another term (15-Nov-06 to 14-Nov-09) as a Research Collaborator.  Neither is a paid position, so he has never been a Smithsonian employee. STernberg's CV at his web site. Smithsonian Research Associates in 2004 Smithsonian Research Associates in 2005 Smithsonian Research Associates in 2007 -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,08:05    Quote (olegt @ Feb. 08 2008,06:19) As always happens in discussions of academic freedom at UD, Rick Sternberg is paraded as an ID martyr.  Daniel King asks:   Quote Does anyone know what Sternberg is doing now? Richard von Sternberg has served out his term (5-Jan-04 to 4-Jan-07) as a Research Associate at the Smithsonian and is now serving another term (15-Nov-06 to 14-Nov-09) as a Research Collaborator.  Neither is a paid position, so he has never been a Smithsonian employee. STernberg's CV at his web site. Smithsonian Research Associates in 2004 Smithsonian Research Associates in 2005 Smithsonian Research Associates in 2007 How does he support himself?  Repairing refrigerators? -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,09:02    Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 08 2008,08:05) How does he support himself?  Repairing refrigerators? From Sternberg's CV: "—Extensive fieldwork in the Ecuadorian Andes, coast, and mangrove forests; Venezuelan coastal mountains and Llanos; aboard trawling and research vessels to collect crustaceans off the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic coast of Florida." emphasis added. Looks to me like he's supporting himself like Forrest Gump - by Shrimp Boatin'.   edited:  removed overly large picture of Tom Hanks as Forrest Gump.  Hey, we already know what Forest Gump looked like as a shrimper. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,11:27    Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 08 2008,08:05) Quote (olegt @ Feb. 08 2008,06:19) As always happens in discussions of academic freedom at UD, Rick Sternberg is paraded as an ID martyr.  Daniel King asks:   Quote Does anyone know what Sternberg is doing now? Richard von Sternberg has served out his term (5-Jan-04 to 4-Jan-07) as a Research Associate at the Smithsonian and is now serving another term (15-Nov-06 to 14-Nov-09) as a Research Collaborator.  Neither is a paid position, so he has never been a Smithsonian employee. STernberg's CV at his web site. Smithsonian Research Associates in 2004 Smithsonian Research Associates in 2005 Smithsonian Research Associates in 2007 How does he support himself?  Repairing refrigerators? He has a "proper job" at the  NCBI.  Although he's curiously absent from their pages. The Smithsonian thing is just a hobby.  Quite frankly, I think he should have been kicked out because of the way he treated the samples, never mind anything else. Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,12:00    Quote (PTET @ Feb. 08 2008,04:35) Quote Jerry 02/08/2008 5:02 am ...If the genomes of various species of a genera or family (such as cichlids, birds, various types of mammals) get sequenced and the gene pools of these species show only a reduction in the gene pools of the species from the estimated gene pools of the original ancestors, such research would obviate the creativity of the modern theory of evolution. If it shows that the gene pools of all the species in these families do not exhibit any creative elements but only reductions in the gene pool from some prior larger set, then this is ID supportive research. Such research is going on in the biology labs today all over the planet and like Lenski, the researchers would probably be upset to know that they are doing pro ID research... Any biologists out there who can help on this one? Has (by Jerry's argument) ID already been refuted by Lenski? I thought cichlids were the classic example, but that's not a story I've followed closely. The problem is that we don't have direct access to the ancestral gene pools, so we have to infer their... Bugger, yes we do.  Yellow rust in Oz was introduced as a single clone by a French farmer.  They even identified the farmer, but (quite rightly) won't say who he is, because it was a total accident. Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,12:24    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,11:07) Quote (Lou FCD @ Feb. 07 2008,11:29)   Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 07 2008,10:57) The ARN thread at UD where they are begging people to find creative ways to put money in Ben Stein's pocket is very funny indeed. You mean the one that now only has one comment? Yes the one comment where the guy wants financial assistance. Answer to his question: *crickets chirping* I didn't catch this earlier, but the last line in that post is Quote Let your voice be counted. And let your vote be heard! Don't just stamp your ankle and whine, put your money where your ear is, and vote with your mouth! -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,12:44    Assuming a theatre in my area shows this pig I'm going to buy a ticket for a different movie and then walk in the one showing Ben's creation.  I want to see what kind of folks are watching it, how they respond, etc., assuming I'm not the only one there. That should make for a good post. Yes I will make my voice heard!  I'll buy a ticket for Rambo and walk over and sit down to watch Ben's ugly mug.   Hey THAT should be the intelligent person's way of seeing the movie without making Ben rich.  Send your money to Sylvester ("they drew first blood...") while chomping popcorn watching the creationists. EDITZ- does "no intelligence allowed" actually mean that only creationists are allowed in the threatre to watch it? -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2008,13:09    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 08 2008,12:44) Assuming a theatre in my area shows this pig I'm going to buy a ticket for a different movie and then walk in the one showing Ben's creation.  I want to see what kind of folks are watching it, how they respond, etc., assuming I'm not the only one there. That should make for a good post. Yes I will make my voice heard!  I'll buy a ticket for Rambo and walk over and sit down to watch Ben's ugly mug.   Hey THAT should be the intelligent person's way of seeing the movie without making Ben rich.  Send your money to Sylvester ("they drew first blood...") while chomping popcorn watching the creationists. EDITZ- does "no intelligence allowed" actually mean that only creationists are allowed in the threatre to watch it? Mr. Christopher - I bow down to your "creatively designed " solution to a vexing problem.   After I thought about your idea, I also thought it would be fun to yell out "Liar, Liar" at the appropriate moments, but then realized, that I would then be shouting for the entire length of the movie. Any other ideas? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

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