Zachriel
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006
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It's always fun to watch a recreation of a classic comedy bit.
The Black Knight
BLACK KNIGHT: None shall pass.
ARTHUR: I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight, but I must cross this bridge.
BLACK KNIGHT: Then you shall die.
ARTHUR: I command you, as King of the Britons, to stand aside!
BLACK KNIGHT: I move for no man.
ARTHUR: So be it!
| Quote | Testability
Details Of Nuclear Pore Complex With Spin
DLH: ID hypothesis on the same data:
1) Nuclear pores are essential to DNA function and duplication.
hrun0815: DLH, how are nuclear pores essential to DNA function and duplication if there are countless organisms that get by without a nucleus in the first place? |
ARTHUR and BLACK KNIGHT: Aaah!, hiyaah!, etc.
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's left arm off]
ARTHUR: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
| Quote | | DLH: Good observation. That demonstrates that an ID hypothesis can be tested and thus be part of the scientific process. |
BLACK KNIGHT: 'Tis but a scratch.
ARTHUR: A scratch? Your arm's off!
BLACK KNIGHT: No, it isn't.
ARTHUR: Well, what's that, then?
BLACK KNIGHT: I've had worse.
| Quote | Hypothesis
DLH: Now lets proceed with the ID process of reverse engineering from a teleological perspective...
In which case hypothesis 1) would be refined to:
1) Nuclear pores regulate material flows that are important to the accuracy of DNA replication and/or expression. Look forward to what data you can provide to refine this.
hrun0815: Again, why is that the ‘teleological perspective’? I don’t understand. I would think that every biologist agrees that since DNA is sequestered into a nucleus that there is a reason for this.
hrun0815: Sorry, you don’t understand the article correctly. I would urge you to actually read the two nature articles. |
[clang]
Huyah!
[clang]
Hiyaah!
[clang]
Aaaaaaaah!
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right arm off]
ARTHUR: Victory is mine!
[kneeling]
We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer--
BLACK KNIGHT: Hah!
[kick]
Come on, then.
ARTHUR: What?
BLACK KNIGHT: Have at you!
[kick]
| Quote | Conspiracy
Michaels7: And a claim of historic evolutionary process is bogus additions due to the Nick Matzke brow beating of all scientist to add qualifiers in every research paper.
idnet.com.au: When researchers do amazing things and discover wonderful designs in cells, they feel compelled to bow their knee to the great Evolutionary Designer. If they do not science, and their grants, will be threatened and people may bow and worship at the feet of the Other God.
hrun0815: I bet you’d be surprised at how few researchers have even heard of Nick Matzke... Do you think they invested years of research and writing because of Nick Matzke’s marching orders?
{Ouch! Nick was an et al. in the discovery of the famous intermediate species “cdesign proponentsists”. That's got to count for something!}
hrun0815: It’s surprising that you are not willing to give the researchers who performed this incredibly complex study more credit. They are smart enough to figure out the composition, structure and function of the NPC, but are unaware that they have been performing the study from a teleological point of view? |
ARTHUR: Eh. You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine.
BLACK KNIGHT: Oh, had enough, eh?
ARTHUR: Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left.
BLACK KNIGHT: Yes, I have.
ARTHUR: Look!
BLACK KNIGHT: Just a flesh wound.
[kick]
| Quote | Sciencey
DLH: Regarding DNA and NPCs, the next step could be to explore what requirements there are for regulating Na, K, & Ca ions within the nucleus, and/or buffering the nucleus from such changes within the cytoplasm, as needed for DNA replication, expression, cell division etc.
hrun0815: DLH, this is really a little shocking to me. I can only conclude that you still have not found the time to study a single paper on the nuclear pore complex.
The nuclear pore complex is freely permeable to proteins of the size of roughly 30kd. Thus, ions, which are many of orders of magnitudes smaller than such proteins diffuse freely through the numerous pores. |
ARTHUR: Look, I'll have your leg.
[kick]
Right!
[whop]
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right leg off]
| Quote | Irreducible Complexity
DLH: If NPC is irreducibly complex, then removal of any gene/protein causes failure, and mutations probably cause reduced function or loss of function.
hrun0815: DLH, again, it’s rather surprising that you make the assertion/hypothesis that the NPC is irreducibly complex without really looking into any of this. You can, in fact, remove a surprisingly large chunk of Nups or even some Nups in combination without a loss of function of the NPC. I suggest to at least read one of the reviews on the NPC.
DLH: Retaining function after deleting a large portion of Nups shows high robustness - an important design function.
hrun0815: So retaining function after deleting a large portion would be an important design function and loss of function after deletion of any component would also be an important ‘design function’ (indicating irreducible complexity).
DLH: One way to test this is what happens when ALL of the Nups are deleted? Is ALL functionality still present?
hrun0815: Again, DLH, I can only assume that you STILL have not read a single paper in the NPC. If you delete ALL Nups then there will be no NPC, thus there will be no function. What does that show?
DLH: You just made my point. The full functionality must also be considered when addressing irreducible complexity and robustness.
hrun0815: DLH, I honestly do not understand how I made your point. You proposed to remove THE COMPLETE NPC and then test if ALL functionality of the NPC is still retained. If that is your measure then everything that has a function is irreducibly complex. If you remove it, it’s function is lost. |
BLACK KNIGHT: Right. I'll do you for that!
ARTHUR: You'll what?
BLACK KNIGHT: Come here!
ARTHUR: What are you going to do, bleed on me?
BLACK KNIGHT: I'm invincible!
ARTHUR: You're a looney.
BLACK KNIGHT: The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on, then.
| Quote | RM & NS
DLH: My understanding of Random Mutation and Natural Selection (RM & NS) is that it has no goal or purpose. It is only evaluated based on effective reproductive capability.
hrun0815: Exactly. And that’s why researchers continually study the function of complex structures within cells to see how they impact efficient growth, survival and reproduction.
DLH: That appears to be working from an implicit teological view even though it is frequently stated as an evolutionary point of view.
hrun0815: How do you figure? So the non-teleological asserts that there are numerous complex structures within cells that serve no function towards survival and reproduction? You just previously stated the opposite, namely that everything in evolution is selected for efficient reproduction. |
[whop]
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's last leg off]
| Quote | Yo Mama!
hrun0815: I can only assume that you STILL have not read a single paper in the NPC.
DLH: This is an ad hominem attack. Please desist. |
BLACK KNIGHT: Oh? All right, we'll call it a draw.
ARTHUR: Come, Patsy.
BLACK KNIGHT: Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!
YouTube
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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.
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So this is how a "movement" dies. Thanks for the circus, UDudes. 
