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  Topic: Can you do geology and junk the evolution bits ?, Anti science.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,18:38   

What the..?!? Why are you damned Euros all drinking avocados and wearing pasties?  And why does "avocat" and spanish "abogado" sound like an avocado? Do they expect some damn fruit to become a lawyer over there? Never mind, don't answer that, you'll probably show me some fat european lawyer in a speedo smeared in avocados and wearing pasties.

Frankly, you Europeans should be ashamed of yourselves.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1692
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,18:42   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 09 2009,01:38)
Frankly, you Europeans should be ashamed of yourselves.



--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,18:45   

Excellent use of L'owl katz.

Now if you can only teach Louis that, proper english* and basic hygeine --voila!

For those that don't know it, Louis speaks in a highly exaggerated, almost indecipherable Cockney accent. Makes Eliza Doolittle sound like a toff. Also, I think he's a chimney sweep on weekends.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Scienthuse



Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,19:55   

And as I supposed, no one of you people have accounted  for the purity of the redwall limestone.  Corals, though in a calcite environment, have a SEAFLOOR.  

Seafloors in shallow marine environments MIGHT HAVE A LITTLE SAND, maybe something besides calcium carbonate.
Deadman has so well established the fact that there is what--1% sand in the limestone.

You might also find that there are billions of dead nautiloids many of them crushed that are in a 2 m layer of the limestone.  And it extends far beyond the canyon.  Surely you all knowing people knew this though.

"Billions of large fossil orthocone nautiloids occur within a single lime packstone bed of the Redwall Limestone through the Grand Canyon region, northern Arizona and southern Nevada. The uppermost 2-m-thick packstone bed of the Whitmore Wash Member of the Redwall Limestone (Osagean Series of the Mississippian System) contains a coplanar horizon averaging 1 nautiloid fossil per m2. The bed with abundant nautiloids extends westward 290 km from Marble Canyon on the Colorado River to Frenchman Mountain near Las Vegas. The platform facies of the bed with abundant nautiloids originally occupied an area of at least 1.5 x 104 km2. Nautiloids resemble the genus Rayonnoceras, but the siphuncle differs from any described in the literature.

Mean length of nautiloids is 0.8 m with log-normal size distribution indicating mass kill of an entire population. Implosion structures and collapse of the body cavity argue that bodies were within the shells at the time of burial. Orientations of nautiloids indicate they were swept up in a westward or southwestward sediment flow. About 15% of nautiloids are vertical within the bed. The packstone bed has inverse grading and abundant fluid-escape pipes indicating strongly fluidized condition and deposition by abrupt freezing from a hyperconcentrated sediment gravity flow. The enormous hyperconcentrated flow hydroplaned westward at a velocity of over 5 m/sec through a shallow, carbonate platform environment, sweeping up, smothering and depositing an entire seafloor population of nautiloids.

Discovery of the extent of the packstone bed, inventory of nautiloid fossils, and interpretation of depositional process were made possible within Grand Canyon National Park by special use permits allowing motorized raft operations with geologists on the Colorado River. Float boulders with nautiloids directed our attention to the source bed within the Redwall cliff. Because of the Antiquities Act, we chose to collect nautiloids for research from outside the national park. Our investigations provide an interesting example of how paleontological discoveries can be made in remote areas of national parks."
2002 Denver Annual Meeting (October 27-30, 2002)
Session No. 187
Paleontology/Paleobotany (Posters) II
Colorado Convention Center: Exhibit Hall
8:00 AM-12:00 PM, Wednesday, October 30, 2002

Crinoids are abundant in the limestone as you can check.  They are fossilized with their heads.  If you research you will find that crinoid heads decay very quickly.  

Well continue on in your omniscience.  Bye for good.  No more of this cancerous hate for me! Stay in here and be legends in your own mind.  I'm starting to really feel sick of you, so it's time to go.  nmgirl was the only true science person and able to communicate her views with little sarcasm.

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1692
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,20:04   

Quote
Well continue on in your omniscience.  Bye for good.  No more of this cancerous hate for me! Stay in here and be legends in your own mind.  I'm starting to really feel sick of you, so it's time to go.  nmgirl was the only true science person and able to communicate her views with little sarcasm.


Well, looks like we've done broken Clownshoes...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,20:27   

There's a lot of candidates for dumbass statements in Clownshoes' posts. First he says the Redwall isn't 95% pure, then he says YES, it's pure, but science cannot explain it, ZOMG!!11!. Then he posts up his "research" that is 182 words of his own. Yay,

Me, I think this is the funniest part of his post:

"If you research you will find that crinoid heads decay very quickly."

Wow. Time-travel machine? Secret extinct-crinoid farm in Atlantis? Aliens in his head whispering arcane secrets? Extrapolation from modern crinoids? Will we ever know?

P.S. Clownshoes : Great. A localized event that accounts for 6 feet of material in a formation that averages ... what, about 450 feet in thickness, on average? WATERLOO!!! Oh, I feel faint. I concede your mighty victory, Clownshoes ; clearly, you have overturned all of evilushuns!!

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Stanton



Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,20:58   

Among other things, it was pointed out that there were three reefs, composed of very different organisms, stacked within the stratum of the Grand Canyon, with no species from one reef found within any of the others, nor fossils of any modern day reef-dwelling organism found within any of them.  How is your explanation supposed to imply that there was one reef buried?

Furthermore, even if there was one reef, how does your explain demonstrate that the whole structure was formed, and then eroded within the same flood that lasted 40 days and 40 nights?  I mean, you do realize that the limestone, shale, gneiss and granites of the Grand Canyon are profoundly different than the loosely consolidated ash of Mt St Helens, right?

As for the crinoids: when they're found intact, that means they were buried quickly, because of a storm, not a flood.  A catastrophic flood would suggest a great deal of violent turbation, something that would not lend to preserving intact crinoids.  Also, you fail to explain how a catastrophic flood would not only bury a reef with great violence, yet, be also able to preserve footprints, as well.

As for your whining about cancerous hate, well, it seems very odd that you would whine about being so busy with your real life, yet, find plenty of time to piss and moan about us being assholes, even though you, yourself, have demonstrated that you're an even bigger Asshole for Jesus.

  
Stanton



Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,21:09   

One more thing, why would there be dolomite in the Grand Canyon, if dolomite can not be formed or deposited in a flood?

  
Stanton



Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,21:15   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,20:27)
Me, I think this is the funniest part of his post:

"If you research you will find that crinoid heads decay very quickly."

Wow. Time-travel machine? Secret extinct-crinoid farm in Atlantis? Aliens in his head whispering arcane secrets? Extrapolation from modern crinoids? Will we ever know?

The tests and skeletons of echinoderms, except sand dollars, do indeed tend to disarticulate very quickly due to decomposition of the connecting tissue: we see this in both fossil and modern species.

On the other hand, this doesn't mean that the intact crinoids prove that the Grand Canyon was lain down in a magic flood.  Echinoderm tests and skeletons will also quickly disarticulate when exposed to violent forces, such as turbulence caused by a (magic) flood.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,21:46   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 07 2009,20:32)
Quote (Louis @ Oct. 07 2009,03:38)
Their tactics are a combination of Seagull and Princess of the Politeness Police.

The seagull element involves them flying in, squawking loudly and shitting everywhere, the PotPP element involves them pre-emptively whining about Teh Meanness so they have an excuse to run away or ignore inconvenient things like facts or logic...All very familiar, all very pathetic. Watch the tu quoque this engenders.
--Louis


   
Quote (Scienthuse @ Oct. 07 2009,18:55)
You really crack me up guys.  This place is like a high school locker room.

Your strategy is to ask a million questions, gripe because I don't address all of them.  Then comes all the trash talk and name calling because "I'm scared,"  or "I'm a creobot."

Then you find some little fact that I got wrong which has nothing to do with the evidence or argument at all.  

That's the reasoning you guys use.  Oh-- clown shoes made a mistake, so that means he knows nothing, therefore all evidence for a young earth is nullified and evolution is true.


   
Quote (Scienthuse @ Oct. 07 2009,19:04)
Seriously, it amazes me that you guys are scientists or professors or whatever you are.  Some of you are very juvenile--you just use big words to cover it up.



LOUIS IS A PSYCHO PSYCHIC

all right louis the jig is up.  you are clownshoes right?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Stanton



Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,21:54   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Oct. 08 2009,21:46)
all right louis the jig is up.  you are clownshoes right?

You should be bushwhacked with a gorse bush for suggesting something so utterly obscene.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,22:05   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,18:38)
What the..?!? Why are you damned Euros all drinking avocados and wearing pasties?  And why does "avocat" and spanish "abogado" sound like an avocado? Do they expect some damn fruit to become a lawyer over there? Never mind, don't answer that, you'll probably show me some fat european lawyer in a speedo smeared in avocados and wearing pasties.

Frankly, you Europeans should be ashamed of yourselves.

Wildly off-topic, but y'all have broken the chew toy anyway...

I had a student a few years back who simply couldn't prevent herself from calling 6.022*10^23 Avocado's number.  I always had to suppress a giggle.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,22:41   

Quote (Stanton @ Oct. 08 2009,22:54)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Oct. 08 2009,21:46)
all right louis the jig is up.  you are clownshoes right?

You should be bushwhacked with a gorse bush for suggesting something so utterly obscene.

i'm sorry.

i know in some parts of the world that "jig" has connotations that I didn't mean to imply.

my apologies.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,22:53   

Quote (Stanton @ Oct. 08 2009,21:15)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,20:27)
Me, I think this is the funniest part of his post:

"If you research you will find that crinoid heads decay very quickly."

Wow. Time-travel machine? Secret extinct-crinoid farm in Atlantis? Aliens in his head whispering arcane secrets? Extrapolation from modern crinoids? Will we ever know?

The tests and skeletons of echinoderms, except sand dollars, do indeed tend to disarticulate very quickly due to decomposition of the connecting tissue: we see this in both fossil and modern species.

On the other hand, this doesn't mean that the intact crinoids prove that the Grand Canyon was lain down in a magic flood.  Echinoderm tests and skeletons will also quickly disarticulate when exposed to violent forces, such as turbulence caused by a (magic) flood.

And here I thought my point was clear. Apparently not.

The Austin claims, which l which I have read, describe an unusual hydroplaning-bed event in which nautiloids (not crinoids) are the focus.

It was the focus of a discussion at Talk Rational that some people here took part in, it's been discussed at PT, Dawkins, IIDB and other sites, of course. During that time, people would post up papers/citations on relevant studies -- including extrapolation decay studies done on extant species that descend from the post-permian. Yes, one can apply such studies --  but how Clownshoes determined that crinoids decay, not disarticulate, "quickly" remains a mystery, given that he only cited that Austin work which may represent an event that took place over a matter of hours or a day (five meters/sec est. velocity). Yet such studies are easy to find, sure.

And, most amusingly (only to me, I see) is that Clownshoes was asked twice in this thread to state how fast he thought "quickly" meant.

Humorously, also - Austin's scenario doesn't even vaguely reflect the kinds of deposition normally seen in the Redwall. It's 6 meters out of hundreds.

In other words, there's a great deal of meat he could have added to his "research" to substantiate his belief. It's hand-waving of the worst sort. Maybe  you don't find it funny, but I do, Stanton.

P.S. Your 40 days 40 nights of flood need to include the 150-day post-rain period (Genesis 7:24), since we're apparently being keen on critical evaluation.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Stanton



Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,23:02   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,22:53)
In other words, there's a great deal of meat he could have added to his "research" to substantiate his belief. It's hand-waving of the worst sort. Maybe  you don't find it funny, but I do, Stanton.

I suppose so.  I used to laugh at similar such things and situations when I was a child, but, I was forced to grow out of it, as my mother kept lecturing me, "De-de, stop staking the slugs on pine needles for the ants. It's not a nice hobby to have."

  
Stanton



Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,23:03   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Oct. 08 2009,22:41)
Quote (Stanton @ Oct. 08 2009,22:54)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Oct. 08 2009,21:46)
all right louis the jig is up.  you are clownshoes right?

You should be bushwhacked with a gorse bush for suggesting something so utterly obscene.

i'm sorry.

i know in some parts of the world that "jig" has connotations that I didn't mean to imply.

my apologies.

You mean, along the lines of "Ahah!  The jig is up!" "And gone!"

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,23:12   

Quote (Stanton @ Oct. 08 2009,23:02)
 
Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,22:53)
In other words, there's a great deal of meat he could have added to his "research" to substantiate his belief. It's hand-waving of the worst sort. Maybe  you don't find it funny, but I do, Stanton.

I suppose so.  I used to laugh at similar such things and situations when I was a child, but, I was forced to grow out of it, as my mother kept lecturing me, "De-de, stop staking the slugs on pine needles for the ants. It's not a nice hobby to have."

Yet in your childishness, you seem to find it neccessary in the Floyd Lee thread to point remarks at people who are clearly being satirical or ironic.

When they say things like "Gee, floyd Lee, I thought you were being honest" you have remarked more than a few times (certainly more than three) the same kinds of childish mild insult: "Har, har, If you think that, I have some (desert, swampland, etc) to sell you" ...as if the person being sarcastic...were somehow stupid for being sarcastic.

But you're not being childish, right?? Fuck off and sell that "I'm better than that" bullshit somewhere else, wanker.

Certainly if you wish to claim that me finding humor in Clownshoe's wallowing is "childish" then your pleasure in poking at people clearly being ironic indicates deeper issues than my humor shows.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,23:19   

Quote (Stanton @ Oct. 08 2009,23:02)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,22:53)
In other words, there's a great deal of meat he could have added to his "research" to substantiate his belief. It's hand-waving of the worst sort. Maybe  you don't find it funny, but I do, Stanton.

I suppose so.  I used to laugh at similar such things and situations when I was a child, but, I was forced to grow out of it, as my mother kept lecturing me, "De-de, stop staking the slugs on pine needles for the ants. It's not a nice hobby to have."

Oh, and one final thing: your remarks towards Floyd Lee alone kind of put the bullshit stamp on your claim above. Pot, meet Kettle.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Scienthuse



Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,23:34   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,20:27)
There's a lot of candidates for dumbass statements in Clownshoes' posts. First he says the Redwall isn't 95% pure, then he says YES, it's pure, but science cannot explain it, ZOMG!!11!. Then he posts up his "research" that is 182 words of his own. Yay,

Me, I think this is the funniest part of his post:

"If you research you will find that crinoid heads decay very quickly."

Wow. Time-travel machine? Secret extinct-crinoid farm in Atlantis? Aliens in his head whispering arcane secrets? Extrapolation from modern crinoids? Will we ever know?

P.S. Clownshoes : Great. A localized event that accounts for 6 feet of material in a formation that averages ... what, about 450 feet in thickness, on average? WATERLOO!!! Oh, I feel faint. I concede your mighty victory, Clownshoes ; clearly, you have overturned all of evilushuns!!

Deadman,

Purity...purity...purity.

You do the same thing you say I do--don't pay attention!   Why don't you just explain why it is so pure and quit your QUIBBLING??  

Extrapolation?  Did you forget--"the present is the key to the past?" I mean it's your mantra.

Nautiloids with "...implosion structures and collapse of the body cavity..." shows catastrophic deposition.  

Six feet--times "[15,000] km2"  A nautiloid per m2--15%  of the population vertical=mass kill.

And the 95% purity issue.  The fact is you can't account for it. You established the fact so now I would be happy to know why it's pure without indication of seafloor material.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,23:47   

Quote (Scienthuse @ Oct. 08 2009,23:34)
 
Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,20:27)
There's a lot of candidates for dumbass statements in Clownshoes' posts. First he says the Redwall isn't 95% pure, then he says YES, it's pure, but science cannot explain it, ZOMG!!11!. Then he posts up his "research" that is 182 words of his own. Yay,

Me, I think this is the funniest part of his post:

"If you research you will find that crinoid heads decay very quickly."

Wow. Time-travel machine? Secret extinct-crinoid farm in Atlantis? Aliens in his head whispering arcane secrets? Extrapolation from modern crinoids? Will we ever know?

P.S. Clownshoes : Great. A localized event that accounts for 6 feet of material in a formation that averages ... what, about 450 feet in thickness, on average? WATERLOO!!! Oh, I feel faint. I concede your mighty victory, Clownshoes ; clearly, you have overturned all of evilushuns!!

Deadman,

Purity...purity...purity.

You do the same thing you say I do--don't pay attention!   Why don't you just explain why it is so pure and quit your QUIBBLING??  

Extrapolation?  Did you forget--"the present is the key to the past?" I mean it's your mantra.

Nautiloids with "...implosion structures and collapse of the body cavity..." shows catastrophic deposition.  

Six feet--times "[15,000] km2"  A nautiloid per m2--15%  of the population vertical=mass kill.

And the 95% purity issue.  The fact is you can't account for it. You established the fact so now I would be happy to know why it's pure without indication of seafloor material.

Why are coral reefs so "pure" Clownshoes?

Here I thought you flounced out with your final post. Why should I have answered you under those claimed circumstances, again?

If Mississippian reefs were composed of the critters I cited, and they grew in reef-fashion and they are subject to periods of sea-regression (and uplift) in which reefs built upon reefs are buried...why wouldn't they be "pure" as the other reef systems in geology ? Or the cliffs of Dover, for that matter?

ETA: Added "uplift"

Now...when again will you be answering my questons? Was that post of yours  your "research " in total, Clownshoes?

And when exactly will you be answering my questions I gave you?

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Scienthuse



Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,00:13   

Quote (Stanton @ Oct. 08 2009,20:58)
Among other things, it was pointed out that there were three reefs, composed of very different organisms, stacked within the stratum of the Grand Canyon, with no species from one reef found within any of the others, nor fossils of any modern day reef-dwelling organism found within any of them.  How is your explanation supposed to imply that there was one reef buried?

Furthermore, even if there was one reef, how does your explain demonstrate that the whole structure was formed, and then eroded within the same flood that lasted 40 days and 40 nights?  I mean, you do realize that the limestone, shale, gneiss and granites of the Grand Canyon are profoundly different than the loosely consolidated ash of Mt St Helens, right?

As for the crinoids: when they're found intact, that means they were buried quickly, because of a storm, not a flood.  A catastrophic flood would suggest a great deal of violent turbation, something that would not lend to preserving intact crinoids.  Also, you fail to explain how a catastrophic flood would not only bury a reef with great violence, yet, be also able to preserve footprints, as well.

As for your whining about cancerous hate, well, it seems very odd that you would whine about being so busy with your real life, yet, find plenty of time to piss and moan about us being assholes, even though you, yourself, have demonstrated that you're an even bigger Asshole for Jesus.

Where did you read that I said there was only one reef buried? I didn't say that.  

If there was a deluge, Stanton, we have absolutely nothing to compare it with.  So the physics of it would only be on paper--and that might not be right.

You seem like a decent guy Stanton, but I have comments and questions that I would never speak or ask here, because of the poisonous atmosphere.

 
Quote
Also, you fail to explain how a catastrophic flood would not only bury a reef with great violence, yet, be also able to preserve footprints, as well.


Since you want to bring up the deluge Stanton, there was tectonic, and volcanic activity involved with the water "the fountains of the deep were broken up."  Therefore there could have been all kinds of different geologic events.  Landslides, mudslides, outburst floods, rock movement, and possibly tsunamis, depending on the extent of tectonic activity.

Quote
even though you, yourself, have demonstrated that you're an even bigger Asshole for Jesus.


It wouldn't have mattered what approach I took.  You would have found fault.  The real issue is that we have two different philosophical positions which are results from our theology or lack thereof.  People who have no interest in God usually take issue with people who do take interest.

And the only people I remember mentioning Jesus is you and Lou.  I wasn't saying anything, because if I did I would have been quickly reminded that this was a science forum.

Still no purity hypotheses--well I think it has to do with drainage--but there's no way to prove it.  

Tell deadman that no one broke me.  I'm not gonna waste my time with a bunch of name calling complainers who have thoroughly analyzed me, but at the same time can't see how rancid and odorous their own behavior is.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,00:16   

Didn't you already say this before?

Is this your Final Flounce -- or will you be back tomorrow to ask why no one answered you?

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,04:06   

Good bye for good*? Cancerous hate? Rancid and odorous? Poisonous atmosphere?

LOL

Purple prose and martyrdom all in one blast. Oh you're really enjoying yourself aren't you? Clownshoes I couldn't hate you if I tried. I don't know you and I haven't the capacity for that particular emotion. I will however mock you mercilessly for acting like an utter muppet. Complain all you like about it, it will continue as long as you act the muppet.

Perhaps you can't tell the difference between mildly disinterested mockery and hate. Well that's not very surprising because it seems you can't tell the difference between a big pile of wet sand and the walls of the Grand Canyon.

Pity poor Clownshoes for he is persecuted and his skin is very very thin. I wonder what your real problem is. You entered AtBC with an obviously preprepared exit excuse (oh they are all so MEAN) and spouted off about a subject you clearly know nothing about and have been caught out. Why don't you tell us what the real issue is. After all, you clearly don't care about geology, if you did, you'd have learned something about it and wouldn't be cutting and pasting creationist talking points. Come on Clownshoes, let the dog see the rabbit.

Louis

*And yet you're back. I am, yet again, reminded of the song by Motley Crue. This one's for you, Clownshoes: Hit it boys!

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Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,04:32   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Oct. 09 2009,03:46)
all right louis the jig is up.  you are clownshoes right?

No, but I think you might be.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,04:35   

Kliban says it best (again):



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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,04:42   

I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing, Amadan. Mind you, just in case I have my fainting couch ready for anyone who feels they might get a touch of the vapours.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,05:12   

Quote (Scienthuse @ Oct. 08 2009,22:13)
Since you want to bring up the deluge Stanton, there was tectonic, and volcanic activity involved with the water "the fountains of the deep were broken up."  Therefore there could have been all kinds of different geologic events.  Landslides, mudslides, outburst floods, rock movement, and possibly tsunamis, depending on the extent of tectonic activity.

Oh right, so in your explanation, pretty much anything could have happened... but  for some reason you are sure whatever it was happened really quickly in a singular "deluge".

Note that you completely ignored the meat of Stantons post with your little tirade
     
Quote (stanton @ ,)
Among other things,it was pointed out that there were three reefs, composed of very different organisms, stacked within the stratum of the Grand Canyon, with no species from one reef found within any of the others, nor fossils of any modern day reef-dwelling organism found within any of them.

Even your "some unspecified random geologic shit happened" will have to do a great deal of special pleading to make that work.

You are bullshitting, and the problem is with bullshitting is that if the people you are trying to bullshit know something about the subject, they can tell. Right away. Don't be surprised when they point and laugh and call you dishonest.

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,11:40   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 08 2009,22:05)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 08 2009,18:38)
What the..?!? Why are you damned Euros all drinking avocados and wearing pasties?  And why does "avocat" and spanish "abogado" sound like an avocado? Do they expect some damn fruit to become a lawyer over there? Never mind, don't answer that, you'll probably show me some fat european lawyer in a speedo smeared in avocados and wearing pasties.

Frankly, you Europeans should be ashamed of yourselves.

Wildly off-topic, but y'all have broken the chew toy anyway...

I had a student a few years back who simply couldn't prevent herself from calling 6.022*10^23 Avocado's number.  I always had to suppress a giggle.

Avocado's number is a guaca-mole.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,12:17   

Reed,

If you don't mind I am going to riff on your comment re: bullshit. Forgive me because I intend to quote Frankfurt on this one:

Quote
The pertinent comparison is not, however, between telling a lie and producing some particualr instance of bullshit. The elder Simpson identifies the alternative to telling a lie as "bullshitting one's way through". This involves not merely producing one instance of bullshit; it involves a program of producing bullshit to whatever extent the circumstances require. This is a key, perhaps, to his preference. Telling a lie is an act with a sharp focus. It is designed to insert a particular falsehood at a specific point in a set or system of beliefs, in order to avoid the consequences of having that point occupied by the truth. This requires a degree of craftsmanship, in which the teller of the lie submits to objective constraints imposed by what he takes to be the truth. The liar is inescapably concerned with truth-values. In order to invent a lie at all, he must first think he knows what is true. And in order to invent an effective lie, he must design his falsehood under the guidance of that truth.

On the other hand, a person who undertakes to bullshit his way through has much more freedom. His focus is panoramic rather than particular. He does not limit himself to inserting a certain falsehood at a specific point, and thus he is not constrained by the truths surrounding that point or intersecting with it. He is prepared, so far as required, to fake the context as well. This freedom from the constrainst to which the liar must submit does not necessarily mean, of course, that his task is easier than the task of the liar. But the mode of creativity upon which it relies is less analytical and less deliberative than that which is mobilized in lying. It is more expansive and independentm with more spacious opportunities for improvisation, color, and imaginative play. This is less a matter of craft than it of art. Hence the familiar notion of the "bullshit artist"....

...What bullshit essentially misrepresents is neither the state of affairs to which it refers not the beliefs of the speaker concerning that state of affairs. Those are what lies misrepresent, by virtue of it being false. Since bullshit need not be false, it differs from lies in its misrepresentational intent. The bullshitter may not deceive us, or even intend to do so, either about the facts or about what he takes the facts to be. What he does necessarily attempt to deceive us about is his enterprise. His only indispensably distinctive characteristic is that in a certain way he misrepresents what he is up to.

This is the crux of the distinction between him and the liar. Both he and the liar represent themselves falsely as endeavouring to communicate the truth. The success of each depends on deceiving us about that. But the fact about himself that the liar hides is that he is attempting to lead us away from a correct apprehension of reality; we are not to know that he wants us to believe something he supposes to be false. The fact about himself that the bullshitter hides, on the other hand, is that the truth-values of his statements are of no central interest to him; what we are not to understand is that his intention is neither to report the truth nor to conceal it. This does not mean his speech is anarchically impulsive, but that the motive guiding and controlling it is unconcerned with how the things about which he speaks truly are.


From Harry G Frankfurt's On Bullshit.

Just thought it might be relevant....

Louis

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Bye.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,14:13   

Ohhhhhh, Flood Geology AND bullshit!

My two favorite topics.

Global flood, eh, Clownshoes?  Rough ride for Noah in a wooden boat stuffed with animals and dinosaurs.

But, let's back up a sec.  Before you can carve the Grand Canyon you've got a water problem to solve.  It appears that in order to flood the planet with enough water to cover the mountains (and I'm not going to quibble with you that Mt. Everest was "a lot shorter then than it is today") you pick the depth.

You need about 600 million cubic miles of water more than there is on the planet.  That's roughly the area of Texas to a depth of 300 miles, to give you a visual.

So, where did all the water come from?

And, more importantly as this bears directly on Grand Canyon carving, once the planet was completely covered in water, how did it drain?

Oh, and that "poisonous atmosphere" you commented about, that's called Academic Freedom.  I thought you supported that.

  
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