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Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 07 2002,10:07    Intelligent Design advocates often deploy very negative analogies concerning their critics.  Such analogies have included things like the former Soviet regime, McCarthyites, and Nazis. This thread is for documenting specific instances where ID advocates engage in political speech at the expense of their critics. I'll start things off with a recent example. Mark Hartwig: Compares Darwinists to Nazis Mark Hartwig has taken over the "Weekly Wedge Update".  In his column for May 5, 2002, Hartwig makes an analogy between "Darwinists" and the Nazi oppressors of Czechoslovakia. Quote The intimidation tactics, however, signal something important about Darwinists. That "something" was explained in an insightful little piece by one A.J. Obrdlik. Published in 1942, it was a study of "gallows humor" in Czechoslovakia during the Nazi occupation. In that article, Obrdlik made a very keen observation: Gallows humor is a reliable index of the morale of the oppressed whereas the reaction to it on the part of the oppressors tells a long story about the actual strength of the dictators: If they can afford to ignore it, they are strong; if they react wildly with anger, striking their victims with severe reprisals and punishment, they are not sure of themselves, no matter how much they display their might on the surface. With the growing success of the Wedge, I'm sure we're going to see a lot more of this stuff. But Darwinist tactics will become a lot less intimidating as people realize that they signify not strength but panic. Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on May 25 2002,10:18 -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

niiicholas Posts: 319 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 17 2002,21:43    Here is a fantastic recent example from your friend and mine, Jonathan Wells. There You Go Again: A Response to Kenneth R. Miller Jonathan Wells Discovery Institute April 9, 2002 Quote The believers in Darwinian evolution who currently dominate our educational establishment think that all students--even those headed for careers in auto mechanics or real estate--should believe, as they do, that all of us are descended from ape-like creatures through genetic accidents and survival of the fittest. Promoters of this doctrine have recently been urging the Ohio State School Board to adopt science standards that would require all high school graduates to memorize Darwinian theory without questioning it, and without being exposed to any of the mounting evidence against it. To help in this campaign, the promoters enlisted the support of Brown University biology professor Kenneth R. Miller, who represented them before the Board on March 11. Miller is not a disinterested scientific expert. As the co-author of an introductory biology textbook that has been purchased for use in the Ohio public school system, he has a substantial personal stake in the controversy. In 2000, I published a book, Icons of Evolution, criticizing the way biology textbooks--including Miller’s--systematically distort the scientific evidence to provide support for Darwin’s theory. In his appearance before the Ohio State School Board, Miller attempted to respond to some of my criticisms. In his eagerness to defend Darwinian orthodoxy, however, Miller bungled the attempt. It takes a rather amazing amount of gall for Wells to accuse Ken Miller of not being a "disinterested scientific expert" because of Miller's interest in his textbook, when Wells obviously has (at the very least) a similar level of interest in his own book Icons. Also interesting in the above quote is how Wells appears to (now) be denying the common descent of humans and apes, whereas if you read Icons of Evolution carefully one finds quotes like (paraphrase) "it is clear that the human species has a history".  AFAICT Wells actually does believe in some kind of guided evolution (i.e. he disagrees only with the "genetic accidents and survival of the fittest" bit), that's probably what he would say about the first sentence if pressed, but it is interesting how he managed not to distinguish his view from the special creationist view. Returning to the fold under pressure, perhaps...

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 24 2002,19:53    Stephen Meyer compares Ken Miller to Himmler This one is reported by no less an authority than Jonathan Wells. Quote Another interesting aspect of the press conference was a statement by Ken Miller, featured on the evening news, to the effect that ID advocates are trying to present their views to the public "without the approval of science." Afterwards, in private, Steve Meyer kept repeating Miller's pompous declaration with a heavy German accent, sounding for all the world like Heinrich Himmler, Hitler's propaganda chief. -- Jonathan Wells on 2002/03/11 session with the Ohio BOE -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,01:56    Jonathan Wells: Darwinism analogous to former Soviet regime Quote These critics include embryologists, paleontologists, biochemists, molecular biologists, medical doctors, philosophers, and even lawyers. Unfortunately, the North American science-and-religion establishment has largely turned a deaf ear to these critics, preferring instead to abandon classical theology and embrace metaphysical materialism and moral relativism. But I see the situation as analogous to the last years of Soviet communism. A small, powerful elite controls all the official information outlets while the evidence against the official position swells quietly, like a wave building offshore. Someday soon, to the surprise of many people in academia and the media, the wave will break. I predict that the Darwinist establishment will come apart at the seams, just as the Soviet Empire did in 1990. -- "Darwinism: Why I Went for a Second Ph.D." by Jonathan Wells -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,02:03    Phillip Johnson: Compares Gould to Gorbachev It seems timely to revisit this offering by "wedge" strategist, DI CRSC advisor, and author of the rejected Santorum amendment, Phillip E. Johnson. Quote Gould’s uncomfortable situation reminds me of the self-created predicament of Mikhail Gorbachev in the last years of the Soviet Empire. Gorbachev recognized that something had gone wrong with the Communist system, but thought that the system itself could be preserved if it was reformed. His democratic friends warned him that the Marxist fundamentalists would inevitably turn against him, but he was unwilling to endanger his position in the ruling elite by following his own logic to its necessary conclusion. Gould, like Gorbachev, deserves immense credit for bringing glasnost to a closed society of dogmatists. And, like Gorbachev, he lives on as a sad reminder of what happens to those who lack the nerve to make a clean break with a dying theory. -- Phillip E. Johnson's "The Gorbachev of Darwinism" (1998) -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,02:22    William Dembski: Compares Darwinism to former Soviet regime Quote Dembski, whose recent book, "The Design Inference," presents in great detail how the Intelligent Design argument satisfies logic and probability, likes to compare the movement's influence on science to the freedom and democracy movements and their effect on Eastern Europe. Criticism of Darwinism now threatens the hegemony of Darwinism, he says, just as the move toward freedom upset the Soviet empire. Stephen Goode's "Scientists Find Evidence of God" (1999/04/19) -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,02:32    Phillip Johnson: Compares Methodological Naturalism to former Soviet regime Quote Behind this student movement is a more general intellectual movement that will bear fruit in the coming century. It is a bit thin on the ground for now, but so was the Christian faith in the first century. Materialism as a philosophy is superficially powerful but moribund, as we saw when the Soviet Union collapsed without a struggle a decade ago. Methodological naturalism is a branch on the materialist tree that will lose its power to intimidate when the tree is known to be hanging in midair. -- Phillip Johnson, Foreword to "Unapologetic Apologetics" (2001) -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,03:58    Phillip Johnson: Compares Darwinism to the Soviet Union Quote Darwinian evolution with its blind watchmaker thesis makes me think of a great battleship on the ocean of reality.  Its sides are heavily armored with philosophical barriers to criticism, and its decks are stacked with big rhetorical guns ready to intimidate any would-be attackers.  In appearance, it is as impregnable as the Soviet Union seemed to be only a few years ago. -- Phillip E. Johnson, "Darwin On Trial" (2nd ed.), p.169. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Jesse Posts: 1 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,04:51    John Calvert: compares KCFS to Nazis from a series of letters in the Pratt Tribune (Calvert's letter can also be found here): Quote One thing that Jack Krebs and I agree with is that Pratt can be likened to an outpost under siege in a cultural war. ... My wife and I just returned from a trip to Belgium. We visited Bastogne where a few brave Americans of the 101st Airborne Division were surrounded by the German Army during the battle of the bulge. The German attack was led by a crack SS unit that took no prisoners. What were we fighting against in Bastogne? We were fighting against a Nazi regime that used the philosophy of Naturalism to justify a eugenics program of terrifying proportions. Naturalism is the belief that all phenomena result only from the laws of chemistry and physics and that teleological or design explanations are not valid. Naturalism is not science. It is a belief system. In the same manner, the defenders in Pratt are fighting against Naturalism, although they may not realize it. Rather than fighting against science, they are actually fighting for science. They are fighting for science that is driven by logic and critical thinking rather than by a philosophy that teaches to the exclusion of all other teachings that we are the products of only chance and necessity. They are fighting for science that is driven by the scientific method rather than science that is driven by a philosophy of Naturalism. ... Rather than using logic and good science to support its assault on the brave contingent in Pratt, the KCFS is using tactics one would expect from those that besieged Bastogne: scare tactics, misinformation and no substantive discussion of the real issues. ... So, we are back looking at Pratt as the bombs fall. The question is whether the Board and the Community will be supported by the rest of us as they have had the guts that General McAullife and the other brave Americans had that cold winter day in Bastogne 54 years ago. McAullife's reply was very simple when asked to surrender: "Nuts!" McAullife and the 101st were subsequently relieved by elements of Patton's Third Army. In the same way we all need to rise up and put our hands together for the Pratt Board and Pratt Citizens that have just characterized the outrageous censorship by the science establishment as "Nuts!" Jack Krebs' reply to this letter, along with a longer response to the charges made by Calvert, can be found here: http://www.sunflower.com/~jkrebs....art%201 Edited by Jesse on May 25 2002,13:45

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,10:32    William Dembski: Compares opponents at Baylor University to Napoleon Quote Dembski, as the director of the center, also commented on the report in a one-paragraph e-mail message following its release. "The report marks the triumph of intelligent design as a legitimate form of academic inquiry. This is a great day for academic freedom," Dembski began. He concluded by observing that "Dogmatic opponents of design who demanded the Center be shut down have met their Waterloo. Baylor University is to be commended for remaining strong in the face of intolerant assaults on freedom of thought and expression." -- Christianity Today: "Baylor's dismissal of Polyani Center director Dembski was not a smart move." (2000/10/23) -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,10:45    William Dembski: Approves of comparing opponents at Baylor University to McCarthyites Quote Baylor University President Robert Sloan has removed me as director of the Michael Polanyi Center despite his having personally solicited me to come to Baylor and establish the Center as a means of furthering work on intelligent design. Some Baylor faculty have exerted enormous pressure on Baylor to disassociate the university from me and my research. Earlier President Sloan had properly characterized these efforts as "intellectual McCarthyism." -- William Dembski: Press release (2000/10/19) -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,15:52    Saddly, the ARN crash denied the opportunity to quote Dembski calling his critics "leftists."  It was in the thread called something like "Removing hypotheticals" or some such. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 25 2002,17:54    William Dembski: Forrest and the "leftist" remark Quote Barbara Forrest's letter is the worst sort of leftist guilt-by-association diatribe. -- William Dembski, post to ARN discussion forum, 2002/04/17 03:38 PM -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Thomas Foley Posts: 4 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 29 2002,13:18    William Dembski: In academia, "creationist" = "holocaust denier" Quote [I]t seems to me that [Robert] Pennock and MIT Press have deliberately tried to undermine my standing in the academic community. Pennock chose popular and outdated work of mine, positioned various critiques of my work with it, gave me no opportunity to reply to my critics, and packaged it all in a volume titled "Intelligent Design Creationists and Their Critics," thus casting me as a creationist, which in contemporary academic culture is equivalent to being cast as a flat earther, astrologer, or holocaust denier. How Not to Debate Intelligent Design - (2001/01/08)

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 29 2002,14:03    Michael Shermer, a critic of "intelligent design", has made such a comparison before. Quote In Why People Believe Weird Things I compared these evolution deniers to Holocaust deniers, pointing out how they use the same style of argumentation and commit the same fallacies of logic in their parallel attempts to distort the historical record for political, ideological, or religious purposes. -- Michael Shermer's "ID Works In Mysterious Ways" I don't want anyone to get the idea that invidious comparisons are exclusively employed by ID advocates.  I do want to document that ID advocates do deploy invidious comparisons, and show something of the poor level of justification usually given for the deployment of such comparisions by the ID advocates. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2002,14:24    Phillip Johnson compares "Darwinists" to Napoleon's army in Moscow Quote They have lost a big one. They're like Napoleon's army in Moscow. They have occupied a lot of territory, and they think they've won the war. And yet they are very exposed in a hostile climate with a population that's very much unfriendly. That's the case with the Darwinists in the United States. The majority of the people are skeptical of the theory. And if the theory starts to waver a bit, it could all collapse, as Napoleon's army did in a rout. (Source: The Dick Staub Interview: Phillip Johnson ) -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

theyeti Posts: 97 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2003,13:53    John Calvert compares Darwinists to Nazis and Communists. ID Net letter to Kansas BOE Quote What if our newspaper reporters were directed by their editors to write accounts of past events using the philosophical assumption that all democratic viewpoints are not valid? We have seen the results of this kind of censorship on open and objective reporting in all dictatorial regimes, such as the Third Reich in Germany and communist Russia under Stalin. I can remember when we had Radio Free Europe radio stations beaming all the news to Russians because their government censored any views that were inconsistent with the communist manifesto. The precise same thing is happening in our country with regard to the issue of what causes life and its diversity. That is essentially a historical question. If the history is driven by a Naturalistic agenda that censors one of the two competing hypotheses we will be engaging in the same sort of propaganda that characterized Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. theyeti

theyeti Posts: 97 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2003,11:16    Dembski compares "Darwinism" to former Soviet Block: Quote With the Intelligent Design movement this dissent has now become focused, promising to overturn the cultural dominance of Darwinism much as the freedom movements in eastern Europe overturned the political dominance of Marxism at the end of the 1980s. From The Intelligent Design Movement at ARN. theyeti

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 05 2003,09:42    Dembski deploys Soviet::Darwinist analogy, yet again Quote In the current intellectual climate it is impossible to get a paper published in the peer-reviewed biological literature that explicitly affirms intelligent design or explicitly denies Darwinian and other forms of naturalistic evolution. Doubting Darwinian orthodoxy is comparable to opposing the party line of a Stalinist regime. What would you do if you were in Stalin's Russia and wanted to argue that Lysenko was wrong? You might point to paradoxes and tensions in Lysenko's theory of genetics, but you could not say that Lysenko was fundamentally wrong or offer an alternative that clearly contradicted Lysenko. That's the situation we're in. To get published in the peer-reviewed literature, design theorists have to tread cautiously and can't be too up front about where their work is leading. Indeed, that's why I was able to get The Design Inference published with Cambridge University Press but not No Free Lunch, which was much more explicit in its biological implications. -- Topic: ID and Peer Review -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

theyeti Posts: 97 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2003,18:20    Dembski compares treatment of ID to trial and death of Socrates ID Will Win in the End Quote When the Athenian court convicted Socrates for subverting the youth of Athens, he was given the option of proposing an appropriate punishment for his misdeeds. Since Socrates was convinced, not merely of his innocence, but also of his good worth, he proposed that Athens “punish” him by honoring him as a city benefactor. This proposed punishment did not set well with the Athenian court. Had Socrates proposed exile, he probably would have lived. As it was, his proposal earned him a hemlock milkshake. Just as Socrates was a benefactor for Athens, so intelligent design is a benefactor for science. Just as the Athenian court thought otherwise, so does the scientific community. theyeti

theyeti Posts: 97 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 30 2004,11:18    In an amazing display of orginality, Johnson compares "naturalism" to the Soviet Union.   http://www.worldmag.com/world/issue/04-03-04/cover_2.asp  (This is one of a series of articles in which ID advocates fantasize about what their inevitable victory is going to look like.) Quote New historical scholarship reflected in a stunning PBS television documentary exposed the Inherit the Wind portrayal of the Scopes trial as a hoax, kicking off an era of historical revisionism in which book after scholarly book exposed how propaganda techniques had been employed to create a mythology of inevitable progress toward naturalism, similar to the governing mythology of the Soviet Union, which had proclaimed the inevitable replacement of capitalism by communism. The collapse of the Soviet Union put an end to the Soviet myth, just as the scientific collapse of Darwinism, preceded as it was by the discrediting of Marxism and Freudianism, prepared the way for the culture to turn aside from the mythology of naturalism to rediscover the buried treasure that the mythology had been concealing. theyeti Edited by theyeti on Mar. 30 2004,11:21

niiicholas Posts: 319 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 06 2004,15:06    Dick Hoppe replies to an invidious comparison: Science another way of knowing the creation By Richard B. Hoppe http://www.marionstar.com/news/stories/20040506/opinion/367497.html Quote Roth claims that the theory of evolution is an integral part of "... atheism, communism, Nazism, secular humanism, and the New- age movement." Any idea can be perverted for evil ends. That does not tell us about the idea, it tells us about how humans can pervert ideas. Should we also mention the use of the Bible, especially Leviticus, in support of slavery in the 19th century as another example of how humans can pervert an idea? And Lysenko's views of organic change, which dominated Soviet biology for 30 years, was exactly the opposite of the theory of evolution - it denied the theory of evolution! Roth could at least get the historical facts right. And a creationist goes for a Darwinian Hat-Trick of Evil: Creation-Evolution Headlines, May 2004: http://www.creationsafaris.com/crev0504.htm Quote Janet Browne and other historians have pointed out how Charles Darwin’s views fit neatly into the 19th century political climate of British imperialism.  Herbert Spencer (originator of the term “survival of the fittest”) told Andrew Carnegie that his cutthroat capitalism was a normal and natural outworking of the laws of nature.  Karl Marx felt that Darwinism provided the scientific justification for his communist views.  Whether Nazism, communism, or laissez-faire capitalism, each view that promoted ruthless competition and survival of the fittest used The Origin of Species as a scientific justification.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 17 2004,20:11    Casey Luskin Invokes Tolkien Quote An ominous force, lurking in the courts of kings, the halls of learning, and even the towers of wizards, threatens to dominate a society. Those who opposed the force have been systematically excluded from power. Some make peace with the force, advancing their personal interests, but are foolishly deceived into believing the force will not consume them and their descendants. Others refuse to acknowledge the force and stay secluded in their shires, pretending there is no impending threat to their way of life. Yet one small alliance, composed of brave souls with differing backgrounds, cultures, and belief systems realize the weakness of the force and have organized a fellowship to stop it. No, I’m not talking about The Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien - I’m talking about the intelligent design (ID) movement, and the force of materialistic philosophy. Of course, Luskin invokes Tolkien badly: Quote A second significant tribute came from Biola professor of philosophy John Mark Reynolds, who compared Johnson to Gandalph from The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien fans figuratively eviscerate people over misspellings like "Gandalph". Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on May 17 2004,20:11 -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: May 17 2004,21:03    Johnson Invokes Satan Quote Reflecting upon the proceedings, Phillip Johnson gave his own analogy for the debate over evolution and ID. Using the Gospel accounts of Jesus' temptation in the wilderness, Johnson said Satan has tempted modern universities by offering "all the scientific institutions and research funding you need" as long as they will ask only materialistic questions and find only materialistic answers. Johnson noted that Jesus might have us reply, "Man shall not live by research funding alone but by following the evidence wherever it leads." Based on the evidence presented at this conference, the evidence points towards design. One wonders how Satan tempted the community of 19th century scientists who rejected non-natural explanations in science. They were, after all, predominantly theists, far fewer of whom were affiliated with institutions, and many of whom were independently wealthy. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

niiicholas Posts: 319 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2004,18:10    Here's a precious one: http://www.strengthsandweaknesses.org/gop_state_convention.htm Quote "Importantly, whereas the highly successful TBSE challenge to the dogmatic militant Darwinian thought police was conducted in Austin by TBSE members and supporters, the effort to get out the word to "Teach Evolution Weaknesses" across the state will need additional volunteer help.  Texas has over 1200 high schools in 1040 independent school districts (ISDs).  Please help in your high school!"

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 08 2004,07:23    Dembski Compares Biologists to the Taliban Quote Touchstone: Where is the ID movement going in the next ten years?  What new issues will it be exploring, and what new challenges will it be offering Darwinism? Dembski: In the next five years, molecular Darwinism -- the idea that Darwinian processes can produce complex molecular structures at the subcellular level -- will be dead.  When that happens, evolutionary biology will experience a crisis of confidence because evolutionary biology hinges on the evolution of the right molecules.  I therefore foresee a Taliban-style collapse of Darwinism in the next ten years. Intelligent design will of course profit greatly from this. For ID to win the day, however, will require talented new researchers able to move this research program forward, showing how intelligent design provides better insights into biological systems than the dying Darwinian paradigm. (Anonymous (Touchstone Magazine), (2004).  "The Measure of Design: A conversation about the past, present & future of Darwinism and Design."  Touchstone, 17(6), pp. 60-65.) I have some comments on Dembski's response. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 23 2004,11:37    Johnson Invokes Goebbels Quote Dr. Goebbels would have been impressed to see what propaganda can accomplish even in a democracy, where citizens are legally free to protest. If a cultural elite has sufficient control of the news media and the textbooks, it can marginalize disfavored opinions by confining them in categories that effectively label them as unworthy of serious consideration. I see that one salubrious effect of the essay that Mark Perakh and I wrote on invidious comparisons of biologists to Soviets and Nazis is that ID advocates seem to have figured out which of the Nazis actually was in charge of propaganda. (Jonathan Wells wrote that it was Himmler; we pointed out the error.) While we might wish certain other of our points to be taken, we can be hopeful that we have alleviated some trivial amount of ignorance in the ID advocate ranks. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2004,09:53    Denyse O'Leary Calls Critics of ID "Brownshirts" Quote All you who value freedom of thought, try to make the time to go to Center for Science and Culture and read Meyer's paper. Read it and pass it on, before today's intellectual brownshirts find some way to stop you. Just to be sure that everyone is on the same page, "brownshirts" is an allusion to some of the most vicious of the Nazis. Quote Hitler’s Nazi party (its official full name was National Socialist German Workers Party) had several militarized wings. One of them (often referred to as Brown Shirts) was the SA (Sturm Abteilungen, i.e. “Storm Detachments”) notorious for vicious violence against the Party’s adversaries; it was prominent in the early years of the Nazi’s rise to power; its members are properly called stormtroopers. Many of them, including their chief Ernst Röhm, who could become a potential rival to Hitler, were murdered on Hitler’s order in 1934. (Source: HOW INTELLIGENT DESIGN ADVOCATES TURN THE SORDID LESSONS FROM SOVIET AND NAZI HISTORY UPSIDE DOWN) I offered to make Meyer's paper available via my server as of August 28th, 2003: Quote Posted by Wesley R. Elsberry on August 28, 2004 12:10 AM One wonders at the confidence of the DI CSC… they “trust” that readers will find Dr. Meyer’s paper more persuasive and more substantive than our critique, yet one will note, as Nick did, that they fail to provide a direct link to the critique. Hmmm. We have no problem linking to their page. On the contrary, I’ve long been an advocate of disseminating the work of antievolutionists. That material makes the very best argument for antievolution being a pseudoscience. (This goes back years to when I ran a BBS system and offered various creationist essays in addition to the scientific responses.) I just posted the DI link for the Meyer 2004 paper on the Antievolution.org discussion board, and I would be willing to host an unaltered copy of the DI page on Meyer 2004 on the AE site if the DI CSC is willing to give permission for me to do so. (Source: Comment on "Meyer's Hopeless Monster") -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

niiicholas Posts: 319 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2004,15:49    Bessier, Elaine (2004). "Teacher warns of evolution battle," Johnson County Sun, Sept. 30, 2004. The day after Jack Krebs spoke on evolution education in Kansas at the University of Kansas, John Calvert of the Intelligent Design Network commented to the press: [quote]John Calvert of Lake Quivira, a founder of Intelligent Design Network Inc., said Wednesday the forum "reminded me of the Ku Klux Klan with the grand wizard on the stage promoting hate on a particular group, suppressing criticism. This is about whether a particular theory of science affecting origins can be criticized."[/i] (Calvert, 09/29/04) URL: http://www.zwire.com/site....5&rfi=6

theyeti Posts: 97 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2005,11:59    Rep. Cynthia Davis of Missouri compares ID opponents to Al-Qaeda hijackers. As quoted in the New York Times: Quote State Representative Cynthia Davis of Missouri prefiled two bills for the next session of the Legislature that she said "reflect what people want." One would remove the state's requirement that all forms of contraception and their potential health effects be taught in schools, leaving the focus on abstinence. Another would require publishers that sell biology textbooks to Missouri to include at least one chapter with alternative theories to evolution. "These are common-sense, grass-roots ideas from the people I represent, and I'd be very surprised if a majority of legislators didn't feel they were the right solutions to these problems," Ms. Davis said. "It's like when the hijackers took over those four planes on Sept. 11 and took people to a place where they didn't want to go," she added. "I think a lot of people feel that liberals have taken our country somewhere we don't want to go. I think a lot more people realize this is our country and we're going to take it back." Lovely. theyeti

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