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Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,09:32    Well I'll have to create a new account at UD and join in the Denyse fun when they open up the comments.  Her thing for "facts" should be a hoot! -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,09:47    I bet the comments are closed so they can fumigate. Have you ever tried getting that DougMoron smell out of your furniture?

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,09:51    Quote (stevestory @ July 20 2006,14:17) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 20 2006,15:07) Good lord, is THIS the same Joel Borofsky? I bet it is! http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=14514 Well, he uses the word 'god' 32 times in 1600 words, so yeah, that would fit in with Uncommonly Dense. I'm sure Dembski has told him to refer to God as 'the designer'. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,09:57    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 20 2006,14:07) Good lord, is THIS the same Joel Borofsky? I bet it is! http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=14514 Amazing reading.  I am frequently astonished by the level of interest god seems to have in the lives of mostly middle class, white people. Take Joel for instance. There is an AIDS epidemic in Africa (as much as 20% of the entire population in some countries are pregnant with death), civil wars there where millions of innocent men, women and children have died in the last decade or so, starvation is one the leading causes of death amongst children, at least 100 civilians are being killed in Iraq daily now, and yet god takes time out of his busy schedule to answer Joel's begging for $6,000 so he can go to college.  What a special guy Joel must be. That god fellow has an interesting set of priorities if not a macabe sense of humor.  "Hey watching millions of innocent children die each year is no big deal compared to getting Joel through college debt free!"   How curious.  Well I am white and middle class, I don't need tuition money but I could use some help in the stock market.  I wonder if god also provides that sort of assistance. Chris -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,10:32    Quote (stevestory @ July 20 2006,14:17) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 20 2006,15:07) Good lord, is THIS the same Joel Borofsky? I bet it is! http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=14514 Well, he uses the word 'god' 32 times in 1600 words, so yeah, that would fit in with Uncommonly Dense. First Denyse, now Joel. I am more convinced than ever that Intelligent Design is all about the science and has nothing whatsoever to do with Protestant Christian apologetics. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,10:39    Re Mr. Christopher's comment: I had a religious friend a few years back who knew a man we'll call Tom. Tom had been in the market for a house for months, and had viewed several, but didn't decide on any of them. When my friend asked Tom why, Tom said that he didn't feel like they were exactly right and he wanted to make sure "I got the house god wants me to have".

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,10:45    yeah, I have no idea where you got the crazy notion that ID had something to do with christianity. move along, nothing to see here...

SomeGuy Posts: 9 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,11:11    Quote (deadman_932 @ July 20 2006,14:09) Arden: look back on this thread and you'll see at least two big-ass clues on janie. Start from when she first appeared Took me about 45 minutes, but I finally got it. Thanks Deadman, that just made my day! Bwah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah!

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,11:22    The comment form is now open on the top thread at UD. I posted a comment. It's in the moderation queue. Let's see what happens. In case you're wondering, the post is Quote July 20, 2006 Bio-inspired design Check out this slide show at Slate.com: http://slate.com/id/2145813. It’s about bio-inspired design. If a system inspires us to design something, is that evidence that the system itself was designed? When or when not? Filed under: Intelligent Design — William Dembski @ 4:11 pm and my comment is Quote If we notice a boulder laying on something, preventing the wind from blowing the something away, and we are inspired to make a paperweight, does the paperweight imply the boulder+something system was designed? and I just added another comment Quote If we see a hurricane blow a pine needle through a sheet of aluminum, and we're inspired to create air guns, does that mean the hurricane is designed?

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,11:37    Quote (stevestory @ July 20 2006,15:39) Re Mr. Christopher's comment: I had a religious friend a few years back who knew a man we'll call Tom. Tom had been in the market for a house for months, and had viewed several, but didn't decide on any of them. When my friend asked Tom why, Tom said that he didn't feel like they were exactly right and he wanted to make sure "I got the house god wants me to have". Yet another example of the mysterious ways god moves.  From college funds to picking the perfect home, god seems to have nother better to do than improve the lives of mostly white, middle class people.   A story of my own - briefly in my early life I was a car salesman.  One day I was showing a Subaru to a couple who remarked after we had done a test drive and such that they needed to go home and pray to god to make sure buying the Subaru was god's will.  I thought quickly and suggested the three of us instead pray together right then.  I lead them in prayer right there in my cube and afterwards suggested they lease it instead of buy.  They felt that was god's will and leased the car.   Yet another example of how god goes out of his way to improve the lives of mostly white, middle class americans.  What a fantastic world we'd live in If ethnic groups, non-Americans and those who live in poverty could stimulate that level of personal interest on god's part. Chris -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,11:40    LOL. "I'm pretty sure god wants you to have the upgraded leather interior..."

dhogaza Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,12:30    Quote Took me about 45 minutes, but I finally got it. Care to tell us which page the clues are on?

jbnck Posts: 3 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,12:56    One post, one post only boys, just so Dr. Elsberry can verify my ip. You are all nuts, you know that? I'm in Jacksonville, NC and Dr. Elsberry is welcome to publicly verify that, and that my IP doesn't match anyone else's. Are you all happy now? Kisses to my fan club, JanieBelle and Corporal Kate

steve_h Posts: 544 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,12:59    Quote (stevestory @ July 20 2006,16:22) The comment form is now open on the top thread at UD. I posted a comment. It's in the moderation queue. Let's see what happens. In case you're wondering, the post is     Quote If a system inspires us to design something, is that evidence that the system itself was designed? When or when not? Filed under: Intelligent Design — William Dembski @ 4:11 pm and my comment is     Quote If we notice a boulder laying on something, preventing the wind from blowing the something away, and we are inspired to make a paperweight, does the paperweight imply the boulder+something system was designed? and I just added another comment     Quote If we see a hurricane blow a pine needle through a sheet of aluminum, and we're inspired to create air guns, does that mean the hurricane is designed? I added the following   Quote How about: Lawn sprinkler.  Designed to water a garden in much the same way that the natural water cycle might otherwise. As far as I can tell, the water cycle although arguably irreducibly complex, could have arisen by natural materialist means. Log Effect Gas Fire:  Designed to recreate the warmth and visual appearance of burning wood. TTBOMK a designer is not necessary to make wood burn. Plasma Ball. Designed to imitate lightning , which although awesome, lacks specificity (as I have recently learned here), and therefore need not have been designed. "Precious thing" / snow globe.  Designed to conjure up a magical blizzardy experience. If it somehow makes it through, I imagine an obvious comeback would be "but they are not biological systems". The question didn't specify biological. * "Precious thing" is a reference to "the league of gentlemen" but that's not important.

SomeGuy Posts: 9 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,13:16    Quote (jbnck @ July 20 2006,17:56) One post, one post only boys, just so Dr. Elsberry can verify my ip. You are all nuts, you know that? I'm in Jacksonville, NC and Dr. Elsberry is welcome to publicly verify that, and that my IP doesn't match anyone else's. Are you all happy now? Kisses to my fan club, JanieBelle and Corporal Kate Well okay then, I guess I was wrong.

mcc Posts: 110 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,20:13    Quote If a system inspires us to design something, is that evidence that the system itself was designed? When or when not? Ahh... truly amazing. Dembski has finally moved beyond "if I can perceive design in a system, it was designed" and into the realm of "if I can perceive a system does anything useful at all, it was designed". I expect Dembski will soon surpass traditional anthropics and move into the realm of saying "if I can perceive a system at all, it must have been designed".

Wonderpants Posts: 115 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,20:32    I posted this, so I'll be interested to see if it goes through. Quote "Of course all those things are designed, as demonstrated by the Law of Cosmic Fine Tuning. While each individual event may not have been planned, the principals were set into place at the creation, much as Richard Dawkins was not planned but humanity was inevitable as revealed in certain historical/moral/spiritual texts. " So are you saying that humans were designed as stated in the Bible? -------------- Fundamentalism in a nutshell: "There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2006,22:06    Quote You are all nuts, you know that? er, not to sound pedantic but... takes one to know one, eh? keep on keepin on. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,02:19    "Essentially, I predicted in mid-2001 that the ID controversy would be very hot by mid-decade, and events seem to have borne that out." Gee, Denyse, did you also predict that ID would die a horrible death in Dover? (snicker)  (giggle) -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,04:35    Quote Essentially, I predicted in mid-2001 that the ID controversy would be very hot by mid-decade, and events seem to have borne that out. Well, I predicted in 2001 that gas prices would increase over then next decade. Also that paparazzi would follow Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie. Let's talk about who has the greater predicative power, Denyse...come on, you know it's me! -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,04:53    And so it begins... http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1340     Quote It seems to me that ID is so different from Darwinism that if IDers want to make their case, they should probably not focus primarily on trying to get papers published in a hostile atmosphere, useful as that may be, but rather by asking different questions of nature. No science - gotcha. My I proffer that the atmosphere of the church will be friendly, Denise? Ohm - you know that already. Different questions: Why don't pigeons have shoes? How much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood? Why only 4 seasons?     Quote As we journalists know well, people who ask different questions often discover different things. ‘Different’ not actually meaning relevant or worthwhile.     Quote Here’s one question that intrigues me: Why do some life forms not evolve, or so little that it hardly matters? The coelacanth and the cockroach come to mind, but there are others, including common ferns and cycads. Surely these life forms experience genetic mutations and changes in their environment. If some life forms are especially well adapted over long periods of time, can general principles that are not mere tautologies (= they survived because they were fit and we know they were fit because they survived) be derived? If not, why not? Lets see Denyse, if there’s little environmental pressure or competitive pressure to evolve, i.e. you’re a good fit to your current environment, why would you? If the your not tracking a moving target, things should slow down somewhat. Is there a hypothesis in there? No – but there could be if she had a mind. Neo-Darwinian theory suggests that adaptive change should happen at a greater rate in highly dynamic environments I believe that’s testable – and HAS been tested. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,04:58    http://darwinblog.blogspot.com/2005....24.html -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:16    http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1340#comment-48839 Quote 3.  “Here’s one question that intrigues me: Why do some life forms not evolve, or so little that it hardly matters? The coelacanth and the cockroach come to mind, but there are others, including common ferns and cycads. Surely these life forms experience genetic mutations and changes in their environment.” Come to think of it: What is ID’s explanation for this apparent lack of evolutionary change? Comment by ofro — July 21, 2006 @ 9:48 am 4.  Question: “What is ID’s explanation for this apparent lack of evolutionary change?” Answer: Redesign (technological evolution) itself requires design, and lots of things are designed so well in the first place that they don’t need to be redesigned. Comment by William Dembski — July 21, 2006 @ 10:02 am So, does that mean that we have had design moments every time a new species appears?  Man, that designer has had to do A LOT of redesigns.  There is no way that god is THAT incompetent.

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:17    The Church lady's post today is well worth reading.  First of all she quotes an article critical of ID where the author states "where is the science" and the Church lady completely ignores that question and spends her time talking about cockroaches. The Church lady said: Quote Here’s one question that intrigues me: Why do some life forms not evolve, or so little that it hardly matters? The coelacanth and the cockroach come to mind, but there are others, including common ferns and cycads. Surely these life forms experience genetic mutations and changes in their environment. A UD poster logically asked: Quote “Here’s one question that intrigues me: Why do some life forms not evolve, or so little that it hardly matters? The coelacanth and the cockroach come to mind, but there are others, including common ferns and cycads. Surely these life forms experience genetic mutations and changes in their environment.” Come to think of it: What is ID’s explanation for this apparent lack of evolutionary change? Comment by ofro — July 21, 2006 @ 9:48 am And then Dembski replied: Quote Question: “What is ID’s explanation for this apparent lack of evolutionary change?” Answer: Redesign (technological evolution) itself requires design, and lots of things are designed so well in the first place that they don’t need to be redesigned. Comment by William Dembski — July 21, 2006 @ 10:02 am Let's read that little admission of stupidity again... lots of things are designed so well in the first place that they don’t need to be redesigned. Um, excuse me?  That quote should go in the Dembski Wikipedia article. Is it me or did Dembski just breech a new threshold for stupidity? And where are the "facts" to back up this idiotic claim?  I hope someone asks for them since the Church Lady has already said you can argue all day long as long as you back it up with facts.  Does that apply to Dembski as well? Chris -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:19    Quote Different questions: Why don't pigeons have shoes? How much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood? Why only 4 seasons? Or: what would chairs look like if our knees bent backwards? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:24    I thought we weren't allowed to call something a good or bad design, since we don't know the Designer's motives.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:29    Quote (stevestory @ July 21 2006,10:24) I thought we weren't allowed to call something a good or bad design, since we don't know the Designer's motives. No, dembski *has* told us something, finally. 1) The designer(s) didn't have perfect foresight and so had to redisgn. 2) The designer(s) is at least one dimension isn't perfect. 3) Psalm 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him. Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Okay - so using my 'explanitory filter' we can rule out god, then. Thanks Billy! Keep up the good work. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:47    Ah yes.... Let the fun begin. Dense Denies L.H.O.O.Q.* what a come down, Hi-Rise too close to him up there, thou Wandless Promethean? Neutered cats with apartmentia....not full filling enough? So now we have what? A walk in the woods with the pin up boy of the "new logic".......tell us again, how sheep’s bladders can prevent earthquakes. DOLey, the sheep seems to have the evolved thingy running around ....in her revolving brain, there is just one thing missing...thought..any thought. So how long will she last? Will she do what MUST be done to suppress the evil librul Darwinian forces of reality and ban coherent discombobulation  as DT did (much to our enjoyment) or will she engage her neurons for a cold cup of 'gee I'm an idiot'. *saying that in English says something veri nace in French—look its not as bad as the Spartan Lacedemonian Ambassadors ** we're talking serious mythology here ..OK **The Lacedaemonian Ambassadors (3) CHORUS Here come the Spartan envoys with long, worried beards. Hail, Spartans how do you fare? Did anything new arise? SPARTANS No Need for a clutter o'words. Do ye see our condition? CHORUS The situation swells to greater tension. Something will explode soon! A bit of Victorian anti-prurience. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:49    Quote (stevestory @ July 21 2006,10:24) I thought we weren't allowed to call something a good or bad design, since we don't know the Designer's motives. Well based on his comments I quoted it appears Dembski knows the designers motives.  He is suggesting the designer is not only designing but also later re-engineering his "mistakes" while leaving his better works alone (cockroaches in the example given). How does Dembski know which designs the designer feels needs improving and which design is the designer simply having a little fun with?  How can Dembski claim to know the designer feels the cockroach needs redesigning or not?  And while you're at it Dembski, tell us how many times does the designer go back to the redesigning drawing board before he shi* cans the design altogether and starts from scratch? I have said this a thousand times and I'll say it again, I am astonished when I read the idiotic things Dembski writes.  More perplexing is the fact that his followers fall for it.  They don't fall for it, they eat it up. And did anyone note Dembski's "research assistan"  Joel what's hisname will be starting his own blog soon www.stoplyingtous.com  No doubt he is addressing his boss. Dembski + Church Lady = Dumb and Dumber I wish Dave Tard got along with the Church Lady, the three of them would have been a howler to be sure.  A Tard Threesome! Chris -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 21 2006,05:55    Yeah, if you thought Uncommonly Dense would lose its high Tard Rating, you thought wrong.

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