Antievolution.org :: Antievolution.org Discussion Board The Critic's Resource on Antievolution

Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Science Break

Pages: (59) < ... 25 26 27 28 29 [30] 31 32 33 34 35 ... >

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,12:43    Quote (dvunkannon @ Jan. 25 2011,12:28) Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 25 2011,11:55) Language doesn't precisely reflect reality when describing change. Is birth a process or a result? How about reproduction in general? What is the *result* of speciation? Absolute reproductive isolation? Probabilistic reproductive isolation? That is an interesting way of arriving at an answer to the original question. If speciation is the process, isolation is the result. If X is the process, speciation is the result. I have trouble filling in X, so I prefer the first version! OK, but couldn't it just as easily be Isolation is the process and speciation is the result? Where isolation equals physical, anatomical, behavioral, etc? -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,17:03    How about incremental change is the process; isolation is the result; speciation is the applied term? -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,17:13    How about look at the definition of "speciation", and see if it describes the process or the result. Of course, if there are multiple definitions of "speciation", both answers might be produced depending on which definition is selected. (Whether that selection is natural or artificial doesn't matter here.)

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2011,10:18    Free Lunch? http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-scientists-erase-energy.html "Scientists show how to erase information without using energy" -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2011,10:26    Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 25 2011,17:13) How about look at the definition of "speciation", and see if it describes the process or the result. Of course, if there are multiple definitions of "speciation", both answers might be produced depending on which definition is selected. (Whether that selection is natural or artificial doesn't matter here.) Well, in a scientific sense, speciation is divided into 'types' (like sympatric speciation and allopatric speciation) by the process that results in the speciation. That's why my thought was the 'speciation' by itself should be a result instead of a process. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2011,13:52    13% of H.S. Biology Teachers Advocate Creationism in Class   Quote The majority of high-school biology teachers don't take a solid stance on evolution with their students, mostly to avoid conflicts, and fewer than 30 percent of teachers take an adamant pro-evolutionary stance on the topic, a new study finds. Also, 13 percent of these teachers advocate creationism in their classrooms. This is sad.  Not unexpected, but sad nonetheless -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2011,16:06    Quote (sledgehammer @ Jan. 28 2011,14:52) 13% of H.S. Biology Teachers Advocate Creationism in Class   Quote The majority of high-school biology teachers don't take a solid stance on evolution with their students, mostly to avoid conflicts, and fewer than 30 percent of teachers take an adamant pro-evolutionary stance on the topic, a new study finds. Also, 13 percent of these teachers advocate creationism in their classrooms. This is sad.  Not unexpected, but sad nonetheless Given my own experiences with my kids' history teachers, I'm only shocked the percentage is so low. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2011,20:33    you might remember that cool story blogged on the Loom a few years ago about canine transmissible venereal tumors.  Macroevolution in human observed time. Last week in Science is a sweet phylogeny that suggests CTVT mitochondrial capture events have happened multiple times, even in house dogs, wolves and coyotes.  What a freak show -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 29 2011,13:29    This is really cool! A novel resource–service mutualism between bats and pitcher plants. Here is the abstract: Quote Mutualistic relationships between vertebrates and plants apart from the pollen and seed-dispersal syndromes are rare. At first view, carnivorous pitcher plants of the genus Nepenthes seem to be highly unlikely candidates for mutualistic interactions with animals, as they form dimorphic terrestrial and aerial pitchers that trap arthropods and small vertebrates. Surprisingly, however, the aerial pitchers of Nepenthes rafflesiana variety elongata are poor insect traps, with low amounts of insect-attractive volatile compounds and low amounts of digestive fluid. Here, we show that N. rafflesiana elongata gains an estimated 33.8 per cent of the total foliar nitrogen from the faeces of Hardwicke's woolly bats (Kerivoula hardwickii hardwickii) that exclusively roost in its aerial pitchers. This is the first case in which the faeces-trapping syndrome has been documented in a pitcher plant that attracts bats and only the second case of a mutualistic association between a carnivorous plant and a mammal to date. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Sol3a1 Posts: 110 Joined: July 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 29 2011,13:58    Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 28 2011,16:06) Quote (sledgehammer @ Jan. 28 2011,14:52) 13% of H.S. Biology Teachers Advocate Creationism in Class Quote The majority of high-school biology teachers don't take a solid stance on evolution with their students, mostly to avoid conflicts, and fewer than 30 percent of teachers take an adamant pro-evolutionary stance on the topic, a new study finds. Also, 13 percent of these teachers advocate creationism in their classrooms. This is sad.  Not unexpected, but sad nonetheless Given my own experiences with my kids' history teachers, I'm only shocked the percentage is so low. If I'm correct Lou, you live in the south as I do. At least I live by 4 major Universities which helps quell the TARD to Reality Index, TTRI

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 29 2011,13:59    Very cool! I always thought the "pitchers" looked like elongated chamberpots.  Apparently the bats do as well. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 29 2011,16:31    Quote (afarensis @ Jan. 29 2011,11:29) This is really cool! A novel resource–service mutualism between bats and pitcher plants. Here is the abstract:   Quote Mutualistic relationships between vertebrates and plants apart from the pollen and seed-dispersal syndromes are rare. At first view, carnivorous pitcher plants of the genus Nepenthes seem to be highly unlikely candidates for mutualistic interactions with animals, as they form dimorphic terrestrial and aerial pitchers that trap arthropods and small vertebrates. Surprisingly, however, the aerial pitchers of Nepenthes rafflesiana variety elongata are poor insect traps, with low amounts of insect-attractive volatile compounds and low amounts of digestive fluid. Here, we show that N. rafflesiana elongata gains an estimated 33.8 per cent of the total foliar nitrogen from the faeces of Hardwicke's woolly bats (Kerivoula hardwickii hardwickii) that exclusively roost in its aerial pitchers. This is the first case in which the faeces-trapping syndrome has been documented in a pitcher plant that attracts bats and only the second case of a mutualistic association between a carnivorous plant and a mammal to date. Let me beat Henry J to saying that's some batshit crazy stuff. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2011,09:21    Quote (Sol3a1 @ Jan. 29 2011,14:58) Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 28 2011,16:06) Quote (sledgehammer @ Jan. 28 2011,14:52) 13% of H.S. Biology Teachers Advocate Creationism in Class Quote The majority of high-school biology teachers don't take a solid stance on evolution with their students, mostly to avoid conflicts, and fewer than 30 percent of teachers take an adamant pro-evolutionary stance on the topic, a new study finds. Also, 13 percent of these teachers advocate creationism in their classrooms. This is sad.  Not unexpected, but sad nonetheless Given my own experiences with my kids' history teachers, I'm only shocked the percentage is so low. If I'm correct Lou, you live in the south as I do. At least I live by 4 major Universities which helps quell the TARD to Reality Index, TTRI You're correct. I live across the street from my uni in Wilmington, NC, so it's a bit attenuated here, but my son still lives in Jacksonville, home to the largest Marine Corps base in the world and lots and lots of seriously deranged Christians. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

George Posts: 316 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2011,07:38    While I'm here, I have to add the pitcher plant - bat mutualism story is way cool.

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2011,10:24    Let's talk planets!! http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/kepler/news/kepler_data_release.html 5 near Earth-like planets in their habzones! Extrapolating from our own solar system, at least one of those should be closer to an Earth than a Venus or Mars. Can someone tell me which way Kepler is pointed? Is it looking inwards toward the galactic center, or along a tangent to Sol's radius from the galactic center? -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2011,10:32    Here's a link to the Nature article. ETA   Quote The mean velocity of -57.16 kms-1 is measured relative to the Solar System barycenter; compared to the local velocity dispersion of ~30 kms-1, this Galactic velocity suggests that Kepler-11 is a member of the thick disk of the Milky Way. Here's a non-paywalled .pdf of Supplementary Data on the Kepler-11 system that might help. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 05 2011,22:19    http://cshperspectives.cshlp.org/cgi/collection/rna_worlds If you liked the Cold Spring Harbor subject collection on the origins of life, this collection on RNA World topics will also make you happy. For the KrisBob trolls out there, here's a quote from Steven Benner's article "Setting the Stage: The History, Chemistry, and Geobiology behind RNA"   Quote No community-accepted scientific methods are available today to guide studies on what role RNA played in the origin and early evolution of life on Earth. Further, a definition-theory for life is needed to develop hypotheses relating to the “RNA First” model for the origin of life. Four approaches are currently at various stages of development of such a definition-theory to guide these studies. These are (a) paleogenetics, in which inferences about the structure of past life are drawn from the structure of present life; (b) prebiotic chemistry, in which hypotheses with experimental support are sought that get RNA from organic and inorganic species possibly present on early Earth; ( c) exploration, hoping to encounter life independent of terran life, which might contain RNA; and (d) synthetic biology, in which laboratories attempt to reproduce biological behavior with unnatural chemical systems. Science, he's doin it rite. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

Sol3a1 Posts: 110 Joined: July 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2011,08:49    Howdy people, I ran into this: "Trisha Gura, "Bones, Molecules or Both?" and when I typed it in to get a search, holy deep quote mine batman, in addition to the site of the magazine, Nature, that published it, it seems that this is a "major find" for every ID or Creation website out there. Even though I am not a biologist, after reading what the writer stated and then what the ID sites think she said there's is a reach. I think that the ID and YEC sites are in the words of the great philosopher Inigo Montoya Quote You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means or am I the one missing something?

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2011,22:33    Quote (Sol3a1 @ Feb. 06 2011,09:49) Howdy people, I ran into this: "Trisha Gura, "Bones, Molecules or Both?" and when I typed it in to get a search, holy deep quote mine batman, in addition to the site of the magazine, Nature, that published it, it seems that this is a "major find" for every ID or Creation website out there. Even though I am not a biologist, after reading what the writer stated and then what the ID sites think she said there's is a reach. I think that the ID and YEC sites are in the words of the great philosopher Inigo Montoya   Quote You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means or am I the one missing something? Yes, the YEC sites are grasping at straws. IMHO, Gura's article (science journalism, not peer reviewed research) exaggerated issues that existed at the time. Gura's article was taken up almost immediately by the ID crowd. If you go a page or two down into the Google search, you'll find an NCSE site hit. The DI had referenced the Gura article in a bibliography they submitted to the Ohio State BOE, back in 2002. The NCSE site shows that Gura responded to their request for answers to a questionnaire asking if the author agrees that their article questions evolution. (Gura is not quoted by the NCSE, however.) The ID crowd (Casey Luskin, for example) is never going to engage on the level of incongruence in phylogenies vs the overwhelming level of congruence in those same phylogenies. Its not like one method groups dogs and starfish, while the other doesn't. The incongruences are at the twig level compared to the overall tree of life. Places where the data is spotty on both the molecular and morphological sides. And in the end, what is the scientific response to incongruences? http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v115n01/p0127-p0141.pdf Buckle down and find out why, not throw up your hands and say Goddidit. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2011,08:57    GM Crops.  yeah or nay? -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2011,09:10    The problem with GM crops is not biological. If GM crops could be wrested away from the seed and chemical conglomerates (yeah, we're looking at you, Monsanto), there would be some real benefits (salt-tolerant plants, for one). Sadly, that seems very unlikely. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2011,09:23    I'm moving the troll's comments and responses to them to the BW. Religious Vomit, taken by me just for this purpose, on Flickr. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2011,10:49    Epic   Great Balls of Evolution link to paper at the end of the blog post. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2011,11:41    Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 15 2011,11:49) Epic   Great Balls of Evolution link to paper at the end of the blog post. Dang, the big cybertank beats me by less than 1 hour. Yes, epic. A little selection pressure goes a long way. Then serendipity takes over, and you get bacteria that skip all that messy chemistry and head into the realm of Edison. We don't need no stinkin' protons! Electrical bacteria. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2011,11:50    Quote (dvunkannon @ Feb. 15 2011,11:41) Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 15 2011,11:49) Epic   Great Balls of Evolution link to paper at the end of the blog post. Dang, the big cybertank beats me by less than 1 hour. Yes, epic. A little selection pressure goes a long way. Then serendipity takes over, and you get bacteria that skip all that messy chemistry and head into the realm of Edison. We don't need no stinkin' protons! Electrical bacteria. It was very lucky for me.  I happened to be writing an item about chemosynthesis at the time for the AP test. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2011,12:17    Satisfy your drool for OOL. Clay-Armored Bubbles May Have Formed First Protocells: Minerals Could Have Played a Key Role in the Origins of Life http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110207073744.htm We've all heard for donkey's ears about montmorillonite, a common clay, and how helpful it can be as a catalyst and tethering spot for long chain molecules. Now it appears that scientists have found a way for it to form vesicles that may help concentrate longer molecules. Short precursors enter the clay shell through pores. This happens more easily than long molecules escape, leading to a natural buildup of long biologically useful molecules. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2011,12:40    Darwin was wrong (again) (about something he couldn't have known about) (again)!!1! http://www.plosgenetics.org/article....1001284 The real story, of course, is that Darwin was right. Since Darwin didn't know anything about how traits were passed down, evolution is not the RM+NS creationist shorthand meme. Variation and selection, yes, but variation has many sources. HGT means that even an asexually reproducing bacteria can have two parents. We can now make the exciting prediction that Lenski's E. coli cultures aren't going to change in any exciting ways, but if you started with a dozen species of archaea, bacteria, and virus, the results would be very different. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2011,12:04    Yikes! Another electrical bacteria story... http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedi....etworks Hmmm... biomass fuel cell... where have I heard this idea before? -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2011,12:14    Paging Roger Penrose... http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedi....roscope A very cool experiment in which flies are shown to differentiate between two versions of a chemical, one normal, the other where the hydrogen atoms have been swapped out for deuterium. If smell equalled the molecular shape and charge surface, they shouldn't be able to do that. I put the shout out to Penrose up top because he has speculated that free will arises from quantum fluctuations in the human brain. This study is about a quantum phenomena in an extension of the brain. I can't wait for this to be picked up by the Spiritual Brain Drain herself. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2011,13:09    From another site: Quote Binding is a function of molecular shape, polarity and the strength of interactions like hydrogen bonding. On H/D substitution neither shape nor polarity change noticeably, but the hydrogen bonds involving deuterium could indeed vary in energy from those based on normal hydrogen. Cf. "Effect of Deuterium on the Strength of Hydrogen Bonds", by Melvin Calvin, Jan Hermans Jr., Harold A. Scheraga J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1959, 81 (19), pp 5048–5050 -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Pages: (59) < ... 25 26 27 28 29 [30] 31 32 33 34 35 ... >

Track this topic	Email this topic	Print this topic

© 2002-2009 Antievolution.org Powered by Ikonboard 3.0.2a © 2001 Ikonboard