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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Joe G.'s Tardgasm

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OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,17:15    Hmm.. interesting.. so, Joe, before the knowledge of stall speed and wing vortexes... bees really couldn't fly?   The laws ARE Joe.  We don't have to know how they work to make use of them.  No one knows exactly how mass warps spacetime to create what we call gravity.  As has been stated several times, that doesn't stop anyone from using the known principles of gravity to determine a result. Speaking of which, hey Joe.  has anyone ever used a principle of ID to determine a result (other than 'it looks designed'). Since you have absolutely failed chemistry and brought up the concept of "information", I guess it's time to begin the test.  Are you ready.  This is going to be so much fun. Joe, here are two DNA sequences.  Since I know how big you are on context, I'll tell you a little bit about them.  Both of the sequences are exactly the same length.  Indeed, except for the bolded nucleotide, they are exactly the same.  Both produce a protein that is required for humans to live.  Both produce a slightly different form of that protein, but a person with either one will live a long live (all other things being equal... this protein won't prevent you from tearing you anus and bleeding to death while kicking yourself in the ass). What I'd like is you to use some principles of ID to tell me something about these two sequences.  Which came first?  Which is more functional, etc. However, because we both know that you will never do this.  What I'd like you to do is define information and then tell us which sequence has more information.  You get to pick which kind of information we talk about.  We just need a definition so that we're all on the same page. So, define information and which one has more information. Sequence the first: ATG GTG GAC CTG ACT CCT GTG GAG AAG TCT GCC GTT ACT GCC CTG TGG GGC AAG GTG AAC GTG GAT GAA GGT GGT GTT GAG GCC CTG GGC AGGTTGGTATCAAGGTTACAAGACAGGTTTAAG GAGACCAATAGAAACTGGGCATGTGGAGACAGAGAAGACTCTTGGGTTTCTGATAGGCACTGACTCTCTCTGCCTATT GGTCTATTTTCCCACCCTTAG G CTG CTG GTG GTC TAC CCT TGG ACC CAG AGG TTC TTT GAG TCC TTT GGG GAT CTG TCC ACT CCT GAT GCT GTT ATG GGC AAC CCT AAG GTG AAG GCT CAT GGC AAG AAA GTG CTC GGT GCC TTT AGT GAT GGC CTG GCT CAC CTG GAC AAC CTC AAG GGC ACC TTT GCC ACA CTG AGT GAG CTG CAC TGT GAC AAG CTG CAC GTG GAT CCT GAG AAC TTC AGG GTGAGTCTATGGGACCCTTGATGTTTTCTTTCCCCTTCTTTTCTATGGTTAAGTTCATGTC ATAGGAAGGGGAGAAGTAACAGGGTACAGTTTAGAATGGGAAACAGACGAATGATTGCATCAGTGTGGAAGTCTCA GGATCGTTTTAGTTTCTTTTATTTGCTGTTCATAACAATTGTTTTCTTTTGTTTAATTCTTGCTTTCTTTTTTTTTCT TCTCCGCAATTTTTACTATTATACTTAATGCCTTAACATTGTGTATAACAAAAGGAAATATCTCTGAGATACATTAAG TAACTTAAAAAAAAACTTTACACAGTCTGCCTAGTACATTACTATTTGGAATATATGTGTGCTTATTTGCATATTCAT AATCTCCCTACTTTATTTTCTTTTATTTTTAATTGATACATAATCATTATACATATTTATGGGTTAAAGTGTAATGTT TTAATATGTGTACACATATTGACCAAATCAGGGTAATTTTGCATTTGTAATTTTAAAAAATGCTTTCTTCTTTTAATA TACTTTTTTGTTTATCTTATTTCTAATACTTTCCCTAATCTCTTTCTTTCAGGGCAATAATGATACAATGTATCATGC CTCTTTGCACCATTCTAAAGAATAACAGTGATAATTTCTGGGTTAAGGCAATAGCAATATTTCTGCATATAAATATTT CTGCATATAAATTGTAACTGATGTAAGAGGTTTCATATTGCTAATAGCAGCTACAATCCAGCTACCATTCTGCTTTTA TTTTATGGTTGGGATAAGGCTGGATTATTCTGAGTCCAAGCTAGGCCCTTTTGCTAATCATGTTCATACCTCTTATCT TCCTCCCACAG CTC CTG GGC AAC GTG CTG GTC TGT GTG CTG GCC CAT CAC TTT GGC AAA GAA TTC ATC CCA CCA GTG CAG GCT GCC TAT CAG AAA GTG GTG GCT GGT GTG GCT AAT GCC CTG GCC CAC AAG TAT CAC TAA GCTCGCTTTCTTGCTGTCCAATTTCTATTAAAGGTTCCTTTGTT CCCTAAGTCCAACTACTAAACTGGGGGATATTATGAAGGGCCTTGAGCATCTGGATTCTGCCTAATAAAAAACATTTA TTTTCATTGCAATGATGTATTTAAATTATTTCTGAATATTTTACTAAAAAGGGAATGTGGGAGGTCAGTGCATTTAAA ACATAAAGAAATGATGAGCTGTTCAAACCTTGGGAAAATACACTATATCTTAAACTCCATGAAAGAA Sequence the second ATG GTG GAC CTG ACT CCT GAG GAG AAG TCT GCC GTT ACT GCC CTG TGG GGC AAG GTG AAC GTG GAT GAA GGT GGT GTT GAG GCC CTG GGC AGGTTGGTATCAAGGTTACAAGACAGGTTTAAG GAGACCAATAGAAACTGGGCATGTGGAGACAGAGAAGACTCTTGGGTTTCTGATAGGCACTGACTCTCTCTGCCTATT GGTCTATTTTCCCACCCTTAG G CTG CTG GTG GTC TAC CCT TGG ACC CAG AGG TTC TTT GAG TCC TTT GGG GAT CTG TCC ACT CCT GAT GCT GTT ATG GGC AAC CCT AAG GTG AAG GCT CAT GGC AAG AAA GTG CTC GGT GCC TTT AGT GAT GGC CTG GCT CAC CTG GAC AAC CTC AAG GGC ACC TTT GCC ACA CTG AGT GAG CTG CAC TGT GAC AAG CTG CAC GTG GAT CCT GAG AAC TTC AGG GTGAGTCTATGGGACGCTTGATGTTTTCTTTCCCCTTCTTTTCTATGGTTAAGTTCATGTC ATAGGAAGGGGAGAAGTAACAGGGTACAGTTTAGAATGGGAAACAGACGAATGATTGCATCAGTGTGGAAGTCTCA GGATCGTTTTAGTTTCTTTTATTTGCTGTTCATAACAATTGTTTTCTTTTGTTTAATTCTTGCTTTCTTTTTTTTTCT TCTCCGCAATTTTTACTATTATACTTAATGCCTTAACATTGTGTATAACAAAAGGAAATATCTCTGAGATACATTAAG TAACTTAAAAAAAAACTTTACACAGTCTGCCTAGTACATTACTATTTGGAATATATGTGTGCTTATTTGCATATTCAT AATCTCCCTACTTTATTTTCTTTTATTTTTAATTGATACATAATCATTATACATATTTATGGGTTAAAGTGTAATGTT TTAATATGTGTACACATATTGACCAAATCAGGGTAATTTTGCATTTGTAATTTTAAAAAATGCTTTCTTCTTTTAATA TACTTTTTTGTTTATCTTATTTCTAATACTTTCCCTAATCTCTTTCTTTCAGGGCAATAATGATACAATGTATCATGC CTCTTTGCACCATTCTAAAGAATAACAGTGATAATTTCTGGGTTAAGGCAATAGCAATATTTCTGCATATAAATATTT CTGCATATAAATTGTAACTGATGTAAGAGGTTTCATATTGCTAATAGCAGCTACAATCCAGCTACCATTCTGCTTTTA TTTTATGGTTGGGATAAGGCTGGATTATTCTGAGTCCAAGCTAGGCCCTTTTGCTAATCATGTTCATACCTCTTATCT TCCTCCCACAG CTC CTG GGC AAC GTG CTG GTC TGT GTG CTG GCC CAT CAC TTT GGC AAA GAA TTC ATC CCA CCA GTG CAG GCT GCC TAT CAG AAA GTG GTG GCT GGT GTG GCT AAT GCC CTG GCC CAC AAG TAT CAC TAA GCTCGCTTTCTTGCTGTCCAATTTCTATTAAAGGTTCCTTTGTT CCCTAAGTCCAACTACTAAACTGGGGGATATTATGAAGGGCCTTGAGCATCTGGATTCTGCCTAATAAAAAACATTTA TTTTCATTGCAATGATGTATTTAAATTATTTCTGAATATTTTACTAAAAAGGGAATGTGGGAGGTCAGTGCATTTAAA ACATAAAGAAATGATGAGCTGTTCAAACCTTGGGAAAATACACTATATCTTAAACTCCATGAAAGAA Feel free to compare them using grep (you do know what grep is right?) BTW: While we're talking about it.  I would like to remind you that using the known laws of science... There is NOTHING that would prevent life from arising from non-live.  Believe me, I've studied this for years.  There's a lot of exciting research coming out.  Not only is it possible, it is likely to have happened via multiple pathways. Again, this is how science works.  You make a claim, you support it. My claim is that there is nothing in the laws of the universe that would prevent life coming from non-life.  So far, 50 years of research and thousands of scientific papers support my views. Your claim is that it is impossible.  However, your requirements are hypocritical in that you demand stuff from science that you don't demand from your own notions.  Again, you are making the claim that thousands of experiments are wrong.  You support it. All it takes is one experiment to prove me wrong, yet it hasn't ever happened yet.  Why don't you learn what a mole is, get a degree in chemistry, and then do the experimental world to prove me wrong. Oh that's right, your too scared it will alter your world view.  You aren't interested in science, you are just interested in playing internet tough guy. I fully expect you to run away from this challenge too. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,17:18    page bump bug -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,17:22    -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,17:40    BOLG SCEINCE FIGHT!!!!!!!11!!! NOT SURE WHICH ONE IS TROLLING WHICH -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Tom A Posts: 28 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,17:49    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 07 2012,15:43) Quote (Tom A @ Mar. 07 2012,08:41) Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 07 2012,07:15) And BTW you don't even understand what I said about the second law- so perhaps you could start by demonstrating an understanding of what i said and then perhaps we can get into some calculations. What you have to say about the second law is totally irrelevent. It's clear that if you don't understand one of the basic principles of chemistry--molarity--there's no way in hell you learned anything about thermodynamics. You have exposed yourself as a total fraud. I'm the fraud because you morons cannot grasp my argument? How does that work? Joe keeps referring to "arguments" or "theories" or "data" that he has revealed, but I've never seen any of it--or all his proclamations are so obtuse that that they make no sense. It's probably the latter. The only thing that he makes clear are his threats and his desire to be dominated by some of the other posters.

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,17:53    I'm sorry, I find it odd that we assume that Joe knows what a mole is; he never defined it or talked about it. How about it, Joe?  What is a mole? -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,21:36    Quote How about it, Joe???What is a mole? Isn't it a spy who has infiltrated the enemy spy organization? No wait, it was one of the bad guys from an episode of an early Superman TV series? Then again, it might be a critter digging holes in your garden, maybe looking for avocados? Henry

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,21:37    But on a more serious note, the atoms of which organisms are made are the same types of atoms of which the planet around us is made. Those atoms and molecules have the same reactions inside an organism as they do elsewhere. There is therefore no reason to assume a priori that the formation of a simple self replicating system couldn't have happened using some of those same chemical processes. Plus, there's no other observed process that even begins to explain any of the observed patterns in the relevant evidence. Henry

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2012,21:44    Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 07 2012,21:37) But on a more serious note, the atoms of which organisms are made are the same types of atoms of which the planet around us is made. Those atoms and molecules have the same reactions inside an organism as they do elsewhere. There is therefore no reason to assume a priori that the formation of a simple self replicating system couldn't have happened using some of those same chemical processes. Plus, there's no other observed process that even begins to explain any of the observed patterns in the relevant evidence. Henry Which is why Joe is a big ole hypocrite. He demands levels of evidence for science that he can't even begin to show for his own notions. He demands that science prove every step of every possible chemical reaction (and physics principle) that explains all life, all proteins, and (indeed) all the universe, yet refuses to provide the simplest evidence that his ideas are even testable. Go ahead Joe, prove me wrong.  But we both know you won't and you can't. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,02:02    Joe is never ever going to take your DNA challenge. He's got too many CCG repeats in his FMR-1 region. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:51    Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 07 2012,17:15) Hmm.. interesting.. so, Joe, before the knowledge of stall speed and wing vortexes... bees really couldn't fly?   The laws ARE Joe.  We don't have to know how they work to make use of them.  No one knows exactly how mass warps spacetime to create what we call gravity.  As has been stated several times, that doesn't stop anyone from using the known principles of gravity to determine a result. Speaking of which, hey Joe.  has anyone ever used a principle of ID to determine a result (other than 'it looks designed'). Since you have absolutely failed chemistry and brought up the concept of "information", I guess it's time to begin the test.  Are you ready.  This is going to be so much fun. Joe, here are two DNA sequences.  Since I know how big you are on context, I'll tell you a little bit about them.  Both of the sequences are exactly the same length.  Indeed, except for the bolded nucleotide, they are exactly the same.  Both produce a protein that is required for humans to live.  Both produce a slightly different form of that protein, but a person with either one will live a long live (all other things being equal... this protein won't prevent you from tearing you anus and bleeding to death while kicking yourself in the ass). What I'd like is you to use some principles of ID to tell me something about these two sequences.  Which came first?  Which is more functional, etc. However, because we both know that you will never do this.  What I'd like you to do is define information and then tell us which sequence has more information.  You get to pick which kind of information we talk about.  We just need a definition so that we're all on the same page. So, define information and which one has more information. Sequence the first: ATG GTG GAC CTG ACT CCT GTG GAG AAG TCT GCC GTT ACT GCC CTG TGG GGC AAG GTG AAC GTG GAT GAA GGT GGT GTT GAG GCC CTG GGC AGGTTGGTATCAAGGTTACAAGACAGGTTTAAG GAGACCAATAGAAACTGGGCATGTGGAGACAGAGAAGACTCTTGGGTTTCTGATAGGCACTGACTCTCTCTGCCTATT GGTCTATTTTCCCACCCTTAG G CTG CTG GTG GTC TAC CCT TGG ACC CAG AGG TTC TTT GAG TCC TTT GGG GAT CTG TCC ACT CCT GAT GCT GTT ATG GGC AAC CCT AAG GTG AAG GCT CAT GGC AAG AAA GTG CTC GGT GCC TTT AGT GAT GGC CTG GCT CAC CTG GAC AAC CTC AAG GGC ACC TTT GCC ACA CTG AGT GAG CTG CAC TGT GAC AAG CTG CAC GTG GAT CCT GAG AAC TTC AGG GTGAGTCTATGGGACCCTTGATGTTTTCTTTCCCCTTCTTTTCTATGGTTAAGTTCATGTC ATAGGAAGGGGAGAAGTAACAGGGTACAGTTTAGAATGGGAAACAGACGAATGATTGCATCAGTGTGGAAGTCTCA GGATCGTTTTAGTTTCTTTTATTTGCTGTTCATAACAATTGTTTTCTTTTGTTTAATTCTTGCTTTCTTTTTTTTTCT TCTCCGCAATTTTTACTATTATACTTAATGCCTTAACATTGTGTATAACAAAAGGAAATATCTCTGAGATACATTAAG TAACTTAAAAAAAAACTTTACACAGTCTGCCTAGTACATTACTATTTGGAATATATGTGTGCTTATTTGCATATTCAT AATCTCCCTACTTTATTTTCTTTTATTTTTAATTGATACATAATCATTATACATATTTATGGGTTAAAGTGTAATGTT TTAATATGTGTACACATATTGACCAAATCAGGGTAATTTTGCATTTGTAATTTTAAAAAATGCTTTCTTCTTTTAATA TACTTTTTTGTTTATCTTATTTCTAATACTTTCCCTAATCTCTTTCTTTCAGGGCAATAATGATACAATGTATCATGC CTCTTTGCACCATTCTAAAGAATAACAGTGATAATTTCTGGGTTAAGGCAATAGCAATATTTCTGCATATAAATATTT CTGCATATAAATTGTAACTGATGTAAGAGGTTTCATATTGCTAATAGCAGCTACAATCCAGCTACCATTCTGCTTTTA TTTTATGGTTGGGATAAGGCTGGATTATTCTGAGTCCAAGCTAGGCCCTTTTGCTAATCATGTTCATACCTCTTATCT TCCTCCCACAG CTC CTG GGC AAC GTG CTG GTC TGT GTG CTG GCC CAT CAC TTT GGC AAA GAA TTC ATC CCA CCA GTG CAG GCT GCC TAT CAG AAA GTG GTG GCT GGT GTG GCT AAT GCC CTG GCC CAC AAG TAT CAC TAA GCTCGCTTTCTTGCTGTCCAATTTCTATTAAAGGTTCCTTTGTT CCCTAAGTCCAACTACTAAACTGGGGGATATTATGAAGGGCCTTGAGCATCTGGATTCTGCCTAATAAAAAACATTTA TTTTCATTGCAATGATGTATTTAAATTATTTCTGAATATTTTACTAAAAAGGGAATGTGGGAGGTCAGTGCATTTAAA ACATAAAGAAATGATGAGCTGTTCAAACCTTGGGAAAATACACTATATCTTAAACTCCATGAAAGAA Sequence the second ATG GTG GAC CTG ACT CCT GAG GAG AAG TCT GCC GTT ACT GCC CTG TGG GGC AAG GTG AAC GTG GAT GAA GGT GGT GTT GAG GCC CTG GGC AGGTTGGTATCAAGGTTACAAGACAGGTTTAAG GAGACCAATAGAAACTGGGCATGTGGAGACAGAGAAGACTCTTGGGTTTCTGATAGGCACTGACTCTCTCTGCCTATT GGTCTATTTTCCCACCCTTAG G CTG CTG GTG GTC TAC CCT TGG ACC CAG AGG TTC TTT GAG TCC TTT GGG GAT CTG TCC ACT CCT GAT GCT GTT ATG GGC AAC CCT AAG GTG AAG GCT CAT GGC AAG AAA GTG CTC GGT GCC TTT AGT GAT GGC CTG GCT CAC CTG GAC AAC CTC AAG GGC ACC TTT GCC ACA CTG AGT GAG CTG CAC TGT GAC AAG CTG CAC GTG GAT CCT GAG AAC TTC AGG GTGAGTCTATGGGACGCTTGATGTTTTCTTTCCCCTTCTTTTCTATGGTTAAGTTCATGTC ATAGGAAGGGGAGAAGTAACAGGGTACAGTTTAGAATGGGAAACAGACGAATGATTGCATCAGTGTGGAAGTCTCA GGATCGTTTTAGTTTCTTTTATTTGCTGTTCATAACAATTGTTTTCTTTTGTTTAATTCTTGCTTTCTTTTTTTTTCT TCTCCGCAATTTTTACTATTATACTTAATGCCTTAACATTGTGTATAACAAAAGGAAATATCTCTGAGATACATTAAG TAACTTAAAAAAAAACTTTACACAGTCTGCCTAGTACATTACTATTTGGAATATATGTGTGCTTATTTGCATATTCAT AATCTCCCTACTTTATTTTCTTTTATTTTTAATTGATACATAATCATTATACATATTTATGGGTTAAAGTGTAATGTT TTAATATGTGTACACATATTGACCAAATCAGGGTAATTTTGCATTTGTAATTTTAAAAAATGCTTTCTTCTTTTAATA TACTTTTTTGTTTATCTTATTTCTAATACTTTCCCTAATCTCTTTCTTTCAGGGCAATAATGATACAATGTATCATGC CTCTTTGCACCATTCTAAAGAATAACAGTGATAATTTCTGGGTTAAGGCAATAGCAATATTTCTGCATATAAATATTT CTGCATATAAATTGTAACTGATGTAAGAGGTTTCATATTGCTAATAGCAGCTACAATCCAGCTACCATTCTGCTTTTA TTTTATGGTTGGGATAAGGCTGGATTATTCTGAGTCCAAGCTAGGCCCTTTTGCTAATCATGTTCATACCTCTTATCT TCCTCCCACAG CTC CTG GGC AAC GTG CTG GTC TGT GTG CTG GCC CAT CAC TTT GGC AAA GAA TTC ATC CCA CCA GTG CAG GCT GCC TAT CAG AAA GTG GTG GCT GGT GTG GCT AAT GCC CTG GCC CAC AAG TAT CAC TAA GCTCGCTTTCTTGCTGTCCAATTTCTATTAAAGGTTCCTTTGTT CCCTAAGTCCAACTACTAAACTGGGGGATATTATGAAGGGCCTTGAGCATCTGGATTCTGCCTAATAAAAAACATTTA TTTTCATTGCAATGATGTATTTAAATTATTTCTGAATATTTTACTAAAAAGGGAATGTGGGAGGTCAGTGCATTTAAA ACATAAAGAAATGATGAGCTGTTCAAACCTTGGGAAAATACACTATATCTTAAACTCCATGAAAGAA Feel free to compare them using grep (you do know what grep is right?) BTW: While we're talking about it.  I would like to remind you that using the known laws of science... There is NOTHING that would prevent life from arising from non-live.  Believe me, I've studied this for years.  There's a lot of exciting research coming out.  Not only is it possible, it is likely to have happened via multiple pathways. Again, this is how science works.  You make a claim, you support it. My claim is that there is nothing in the laws of the universe that would prevent life coming from non-life.  So far, 50 years of research and thousands of scientific papers support my views. Your claim is that it is impossible.  However, your requirements are hypocritical in that you demand stuff from science that you don't demand from your own notions.  Again, you are making the claim that thousands of experiments are wrong.  You support it. All it takes is one experiment to prove me wrong, yet it hasn't ever happened yet.  Why don't you learn what a mole is, get a degree in chemistry, and then do the experimental world to prove me wrong. Oh that's right, your too scared it will alter your world view.  You aren't interested in science, you are just interested in playing internet tough guy. I fully expect you to run away from this challenge too. Umm you still have retard issues kevin- 1- I need to see those DNA sequences 2- There isn't any evidence that demonstrates blind and undirected processes can produce any sequence of DNA- so that would be a problem for you. 3- Yes I know the laws are kevin- but just saying that is not scientific 4- Design principles are used on a daily basis to determine design 5- YOUR position also claims to be able to determine design from nature, operating freely- duh 6- And you need something that ALOLOWS for a living organism to arise from non-living matter via purely chemical and physical reactions 7- All it takes is ONE experiment to falsify ID yet evotards are too agraid to conduct it 8- mole- can be a unit of measure - basically a measure of the amount of elemetary entities some substance has as there are in 12 grams of pure carbon-12 9- Your sorry-ass position can't even explain the existrence of water beyond saying "it just is"- again your position is unscientific But you wouldn't know because you are ignorant of science. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:54    Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 07 2012,21:44) Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 07 2012,21:37) But on a more serious note, the atoms of which organisms are made are the same types of atoms of which the planet around us is made. Those atoms and molecules have the same reactions inside an organism as they do elsewhere. There is therefore no reason to assume a priori that the formation of a simple self replicating system couldn't have happened using some of those same chemical processes. Plus, there's no other observed process that even begins to explain any of the observed patterns in the relevant evidence. Henry Which is why Joe is a big ole hypocrite. He demands levels of evidence for science that he can't even begin to show for his own notions. He demands that science prove every step of every possible chemical reaction (and physics principle) that explains all life, all proteins, and (indeed) all the universe, yet refuses to provide the simplest evidence that his ideas are even testable. Go ahead Joe, prove me wrong.  But we both know you won't and you can't. Fuck you kevbo- You don't have anything- No one has gone into a lab and had a new protein complex "evolve" No one has gone into a lab and performed targeted mutagenesis on fish embryos to see if a fishapod would develop. IOW don't blame me because your position is unscientific- no testable hypotheses and no supporting evidence- then again you don't know what evidence is. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:55    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:51) But you wouldn't know because you are ignorant of science. Seems to me that after the ass kicking you just got over at TSZ this response of yours is to be expected. Same old blah, same old Joe. IOW it's as if that ass kicking never happened. No doubt you've already spun some mental picture of a great victory up. Yet it's all there, in black and white. It seems that the best way to prevent an attack of Joeism is to bring some equations into it. That'll soon scare him off! -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:55    Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 07 2012,21:37) But on a more serious note, the atoms of which organisms are made are the same types of atoms of which the planet around us is made. Those atoms and molecules have the same reactions inside an organism as they do elsewhere. There is therefore no reason to assume a priori that the formation of a simple self replicating system couldn't have happened using some of those same chemical processes. Plus, there's no other observed process that even begins to explain any of the observed patterns in the relevant evidence. Henry The world is awaiting your confirming experiments. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:56    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 08 2012,06:55) Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:51) But you wouldn't know because you are ignorant of science. Seems to me that after the ass kicking you just got over at TSZ this response of yours is to be expected. Same old blah, same old Joe. IOW it's as if that ass kicking never happened. No doubt you've already spun some mental picture of a great victory up. Yet it's all there, in black and white. It seems that the best way to prevent an attack of Joeism is to bring some equations into it. That'll soon scare him off! Ass licking- evotards are famous for their ass-LICKING Yup and it is all there- all of your drooling ignorance -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:58    Going straight to guano now, Joe? -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:58    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:54) No one has gone into a lab and performed targeted mutagenesis on fish embryos to see if a fishapod would develop. Your stupid ideas are not science. Tell me, you say "targeted" but in what way are you using the word target here? What is this "target" you would use? -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:59    1- Forensics says it can determine design from nature, operating freely 2- Archaeology claims it can determine design from nature, operating freely 3- evotards claim they can determine design from nature, operating freely Yet kevin "thinks" his strawman of a challenge only applies to ID- talk about retarded... -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,06:59    Quote (olegt @ Mar. 08 2012,06:58) Going straight to guano now, Joe? :D Well considering it is an evotard forum that is to be expected. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:00    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 08 2012,06:58) Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:54) No one has gone into a lab and performed targeted mutagenesis on fish embryos to see if a fishapod would develop. Your stupid ideas are not science. Tell me, you say "targeted" but in what way are you using the word target here? What is this "target" you would use? Your position isn't science but you are stiill an asshole wanker. And obvioulsy ignorant too-- -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:00    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:55) The world is awaiting your confirming experiments. No, it's just you and your unrealistic expectations. The funny thing is you are so transparent. You desperately want to have faith, in whatever it is you currently believe, because you are scared that this is all there is. And you don't like that idea because, well, look at you! So you set the bar at "DVD of the creation of the universe" before you'll believe anything but a designer did it. That keeps your belief system, such as it is, up on the high shelf away from nasty old rationality. You are a sniviling coward at heart and I feel sorry for you. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:01    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,07:00) Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 08 2012,06:58) Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:54) No one has gone into a lab and performed targeted mutagenesis on fish embryos to see if a fishapod would develop. Your stupid ideas are not science. Tell me, you say "targeted" but in what way are you using the word target here? What is this "target" you would use? Your position isn't science but you are stiill an asshole wanker. And obvioulsy ignorant too-- Is that what you'll write on the application form for lab time? It's a simple question Joe. You are suggesting a targeted process, I'm asking what the target will be. You don't know? Color me surprised! -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:02    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 08 2012,07:00) Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:55) The world is awaiting your confirming experiments. No, it's just you and your unrealistic expectations. The funny thing is you are so transparent. You desperately want to have faith, in whatever it is you currently believe, because you are scared that this is all there is. And you don't like that idea because, well, look at you! So you set the bar at "DVD of the creation of the universe" before you'll believe anything but a designer did it. That keeps your belief system, such as it is, up on the high shelf away from nasty old rationality. You are a sniviling coward at heart and I feel sorry for you. Yes I realize I have unrealistic expectations when I ask evoTARDS to support the claims of their position. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:03    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 08 2012,07:01) Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,07:00) Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 08 2012,06:58)   Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:54) No one has gone into a lab and performed targeted mutagenesis on fish embryos to see if a fishapod would develop. Your stupid ideas are not science. Tell me, you say "targeted" but in what way are you using the word target here? What is this "target" you would use? Your position isn't science but you are stiill an asshole wanker. And obvioulsy ignorant too-- Is that what you'll write on the application form for lab time? It's a simple question Joe. You are suggesting a targeted process, I'm asking what the target will be. You don't know? Color me surprised! targeted mutagenesis- look it up- and obvioulsy they would target developmental sequences- dumbass -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:04    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,07:03) targeted mutagenesis- look it up- and obvioulsy they would target developmental sequences- dumbass And which ones are those Joe? Give that we "don't even know if the transformations are even possible" what sequences would those be? -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:04    oldmanwithhisheaduphisass: -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:05    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:51)   Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 07 2012,17:15) Sequence the first: ATG GTG GAC CTG ACT CCT GTG GAG AAG TCT GCC GTT ACT GCC CTG TGG GGC AAG GTG AAC GTG GAT GAA GGT GGT GTT GAG GCC CTG GGC AGGTTGGTATCAAGGTTACAAGACAGGTTTAAG GAGACCAATAGAAACTGGGCATGTGGAGACAGAGAAGACTCTTGGGTTTCTGATAGGCACTGACTCTCTCTGCCTATT GGTCTATTTTCCCACCCTTAG G CTG CTG GTG GTC TAC CCT TGG ACC CAG AGG TTC TTT GAG TCC TTT GGG GAT CTG TCC ACT CCT GAT GCT GTT ATG GGC AAC CCT AAG GTG AAG GCT CAT GGC AAG AAA GTG CTC GGT GCC TTT AGT GAT GGC CTG GCT CAC CTG GAC AAC CTC AAG GGC ACC TTT GCC ACA CTG AGT GAG CTG CAC TGT GAC AAG CTG CAC GTG GAT CCT GAG AAC TTC AGG GTGAGTCTATGGGACCCTTGATGTTTTCTTTCCCCTTCTTTTCTATGGTTAAGTTCATGTC ATAGGAAGGGGAGAAGTAACAGGGTACAGTTTAGAATGGGAAACAGACGAATGATTGCATCAGTGTGGAAGTCTCA GGATCGTTTTAGTTTCTTTTATTTGCTGTTCATAACAATTGTTTTCTTTTGTTTAATTCTTGCTTTCTTTTTTTTTCT TCTCCGCAATTTTTACTATTATACTTAATGCCTTAACATTGTGTATAACAAAAGGAAATATCTCTGAGATACATTAAG TAACTTAAAAAAAAACTTTACACAGTCTGCCTAGTACATTACTATTTGGAATATATGTGTGCTTATTTGCATATTCAT AATCTCCCTACTTTATTTTCTTTTATTTTTAATTGATACATAATCATTATACATATTTATGGGTTAAAGTGTAATGTT TTAATATGTGTACACATATTGACCAAATCAGGGTAATTTTGCATTTGTAATTTTAAAAAATGCTTTCTTCTTTTAATA TACTTTTTTGTTTATCTTATTTCTAATACTTTCCCTAATCTCTTTCTTTCAGGGCAATAATGATACAATGTATCATGC CTCTTTGCACCATTCTAAAGAATAACAGTGATAATTTCTGGGTTAAGGCAATAGCAATATTTCTGCATATAAATATTT CTGCATATAAATTGTAACTGATGTAAGAGGTTTCATATTGCTAATAGCAGCTACAATCCAGCTACCATTCTGCTTTTA TTTTATGGTTGGGATAAGGCTGGATTATTCTGAGTCCAAGCTAGGCCCTTTTGCTAATCATGTTCATACCTCTTATCT TCCTCCCACAG CTC CTG GGC AAC GTG CTG GTC TGT GTG CTG GCC CAT CAC TTT GGC AAA GAA TTC ATC CCA CCA GTG CAG GCT GCC TAT CAG AAA GTG GTG GCT GGT GTG GCT AAT GCC CTG GCC CAC AAG TAT CAC TAA GCTCGCTTTCTTGCTGTCCAATTTCTATTAAAGGTTCCTTTGTT CCCTAAGTCCAACTACTAAACTGGGGGATATTATGAAGGGCCTTGAGCATCTGGATTCTGCCTAATAAAAAACATTTA TTTTCATTGCAATGATGTATTTAAATTATTTCTGAATATTTTACTAAAAAGGGAATGTGGGAGGTCAGTGCATTTAAA ACATAAAGAAATGATGAGCTGTTCAAACCTTGGGAAAATACACTATATCTTAAACTCCATGAAAGAA Sequence the second ATG GTG GAC CTG ACT CCT GAG GAG AAG TCT GCC GTT ACT GCC CTG TGG GGC AAG GTG AAC GTG GAT GAA GGT GGT GTT GAG GCC CTG GGC AGGTTGGTATCAAGGTTACAAGACAGGTTTAAG GAGACCAATAGAAACTGGGCATGTGGAGACAGAGAAGACTCTTGGGTTTCTGATAGGCACTGACTCTCTCTGCCTATT GGTCTATTTTCCCACCCTTAG G CTG CTG GTG GTC TAC CCT TGG ACC CAG AGG TTC TTT GAG TCC TTT GGG GAT CTG TCC ACT CCT GAT GCT GTT ATG GGC AAC CCT AAG GTG AAG GCT CAT GGC AAG AAA GTG CTC GGT GCC TTT AGT GAT GGC CTG GCT CAC CTG GAC AAC CTC AAG GGC ACC TTT GCC ACA CTG AGT GAG CTG CAC TGT GAC AAG CTG CAC GTG GAT CCT GAG AAC TTC AGG GTGAGTCTATGGGACGCTTGATGTTTTCTTTCCCCTTCTTTTCTATGGTTAAGTTCATGTC ATAGGAAGGGGAGAAGTAACAGGGTACAGTTTAGAATGGGAAACAGACGAATGATTGCATCAGTGTGGAAGTCTCA GGATCGTTTTAGTTTCTTTTATTTGCTGTTCATAACAATTGTTTTCTTTTGTTTAATTCTTGCTTTCTTTTTTTTTCT TCTCCGCAATTTTTACTATTATACTTAATGCCTTAACATTGTGTATAACAAAAGGAAATATCTCTGAGATACATTAAG TAACTTAAAAAAAAACTTTACACAGTCTGCCTAGTACATTACTATTTGGAATATATGTGTGCTTATTTGCATATTCAT AATCTCCCTACTTTATTTTCTTTTATTTTTAATTGATACATAATCATTATACATATTTATGGGTTAAAGTGTAATGTT TTAATATGTGTACACATATTGACCAAATCAGGGTAATTTTGCATTTGTAATTTTAAAAAATGCTTTCTTCTTTTAATA TACTTTTTTGTTTATCTTATTTCTAATACTTTCCCTAATCTCTTTCTTTCAGGGCAATAATGATACAATGTATCATGC CTCTTTGCACCATTCTAAAGAATAACAGTGATAATTTCTGGGTTAAGGCAATAGCAATATTTCTGCATATAAATATTT CTGCATATAAATTGTAACTGATGTAAGAGGTTTCATATTGCTAATAGCAGCTACAATCCAGCTACCATTCTGCTTTTA TTTTATGGTTGGGATAAGGCTGGATTATTCTGAGTCCAAGCTAGGCCCTTTTGCTAATCATGTTCATACCTCTTATCT TCCTCCCACAG CTC CTG GGC AAC GTG CTG GTC TGT GTG CTG GCC CAT CAC TTT GGC AAA GAA TTC ATC CCA CCA GTG CAG GCT GCC TAT CAG AAA GTG GTG GCT GGT GTG GCT AAT GCC CTG GCC CAC AAG TAT CAC TAA GCTCGCTTTCTTGCTGTCCAATTTCTATTAAAGGTTCCTTTGTT CCCTAAGTCCAACTACTAAACTGGGGGATATTATGAAGGGCCTTGAGCATCTGGATTCTGCCTAATAAAAAACATTTA TTTTCATTGCAATGATGTATTTAAATTATTTCTGAATATTTTACTAAAAAGGGAATGTGGGAGGTCAGTGCATTTAAA ACATAAAGAAATGATGAGCTGTTCAAACCTTGGGAAAATACACTATATCTTAAACTCCATGAAAGAA Umm you still have retard issues kevin- 1- I need to see those DNA sequences -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:05    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,07:02) Yes I realize I have unrealistic expectations when I ask evoTARDS to support the claims of their position. Citation please. You make those claims up specifically so you can claim they have not been met. It's all in your "mind". -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:06    Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,15:00) Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 08 2012,06:58) Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,06:54) No one has gone into a lab and performed targeted mutagenesis on fish embryos to see if a fishapod would develop. Your stupid ideas are not science. Tell me, you say "targeted" but in what way are you using the word target here? What is this "target" you would use? Your position isn't science but you are stiill an asshole wanker. And obvioulsy ignorant too-- Joe go down to Home Depot buy some 2 x 4s, build a bridge AND GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:23    Quote 5- YOUR position also claims to be able to determine design from nature, operating freely- duh DRINK!!! Quote 1- Forensics says it can determine design from nature, operating freely DRINK!!! Quote 2- Archaeology claims it can determine design from nature, operating freely drrrrink!!!!1!! Quote 3- evotards claim they can determine design from nature, operating freely fuckn drinn.... Edited by Erasmus, FCD on Mar. 08 2012,08:23 -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

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