Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::FTK Research Thread

Posted: June 26 2007,16:05

Quote

I'm rather enjoying the conversation with her.

I do rather think I'm going to have to look up conversation. It must not mean what I think it means.

I do wish that she would have an actual conversation with anyone sometime. It might be truly entertaining. But, she just can't get herself to talk to anyone. All the people she already knows and shares a worldview with don't really provide conversation--just reinforcement, not the same thing at all.

Of course, all of us who treat her as a piranha aren't worthy of a conversation because she's already said everything that needs to be said to us (though where she might have said these things will remain enshrouded for eternity). She even closed down a conversation that jc and I were having at her blog because she didn't like the way it was going. JC being, ostensibly, on her side and behaving so strangely that even Ftk realized he was hurting the cause, it was time to close it down, despite her pet peeve of civility not being a problem in the thread.

It's sad to think of going through your entire life and never having a real conversation.

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But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:10

Quote (blipey @ June 26 2007,16:05)

Quote

I'm rather enjoying the conversation with her.

I do rather think I'm going to have to look up conversation. It must not mean what I think it means.

I do wish that she would have an actual conversation with anyone sometime. It might be truly entertaining. But, she just can't get herself to talk to anyone. All the people she already knows and shares a worldview with don't really provide conversation--just reinforcement, not the same thing at all.

Of course, all of us who treat her as a piranha aren't worthy of a conversation because she's already said everything that needs to be said to us (though where she might have said these things will remain enshrouded for eternity). She even closed down a conversation that jc and I were having at her blog because she didn't like the way it was going. JC being, ostensibly, on her side and behaving so strangely that even Ftk realized he was hurting the cause, it was time to close it down, despite her pet peeve of civility not being a problem in the thread.

It's sad to think of going through your entire life and never having a real conversation.

I used the word because there wasnt anything else that seemed to fit.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:14

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:04)

well, if you wanted to, you could start another thread, and politely ask the rest of us to keep out of it.

I'd bet most of us would respect that.

Frankly, I don't care about most of it, it's just the occasions when the thread gets away from me a bit. (In all honesty, I might need the help, I'm certain there are answers to all of the stuff in the book, but I don't always know them myself, such as the one I commented on on one of the previous pages.)

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,16:15

your avatar kinda reminds me of that actor from the "Transporter" movie series.

ah, no, through the wonders of the internet, and a decent search engine on the BBC's website, I'm guessing it's a pic of Alan Johnston.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6243170.stm

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"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:16

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:15)

your avatar kinda reminds me of that actor from the "Transporter" movie series.

Jason Statham? It's not. It's captured BBC reporter Alan Johnston.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,16:18

heh. crosspost.

probably would have figured it out faster if I had bothered to read your sig.

*doh!*

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:24

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:18)

heh. crosspost.

probably would have figured it out faster if I had bothered to read your sig.

*doh!*

Hah, well it doesn't matter.

Ok, anyone explain what this is all about? (The "letter" thing, I mean is it real, or just an excersise in futility?)

Weird Walt Brown Letter thing.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,16:25

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:14)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:04)

well, if you wanted to, you could start another thread, and politely ask the rest of us to keep out of it.

I'd bet most of us would respect that.

Frankly, I don't care about most of it, it's just the occasions when the thread gets away from me a bit. (In all honesty, I might need the help, I'm certain there are answers to all of the stuff in the book, but I don't always know them myself, such as the one I commented on on one of the previous pages.)

as an alternative then, you should feel free to post a thread entirely about Brown's book, where you can freely pose any questions you have about what it says.

never know, somebody around here might have something interesting in response, beyond the standard response from the Talk Origins Archive (which you should always check first, btw).

I know that Deadman and others have taken time out to specifically research in gory detail a lot of the claims in Brown's book during their "discussions" with AirheadDave both in this forum and on dawkins.net.

asking FTK to explain something in Brown's book is no more productive than asking her to explain something in the basic biology text Alby sent her.

IOW, if you have real questions, you're wasting you time asking her for answers.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:31

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:25)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:14)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:04)

well, if you wanted to, you could start another thread, and politely ask the rest of us to keep out of it.

I'd bet most of us would respect that.

Frankly, I don't care about most of it, it's just the occasions when the thread gets away from me a bit. (In all honesty, I might need the help, I'm certain there are answers to all of the stuff in the book, but I don't always know them myself, such as the one I commented on on one of the previous pages.)

as an alternative then, you should feel free to post a thread entirely about Brown's book, where you can freely pose any questions you have about what it says.

never know, somebody around here might have something interesting in response, beyond the standard response from the Talk Origins Archive (which you should always check first, btw).

I know that Deadman and others have taken time out to specifically research in gory detail a lot of the claims in Brown's book during their "discussions" with AirheadDave both in this forum and on dawkins.net.

asking FTK to explain something in Brown's book is no more productive than asking her to explain something in the basic biology text Alby sent her.

IOW, if you have real questions, you're wasting you time asking her for answers.

See, thing is I do look in talk.origins (it was how I found my way here, in fact) but occasionally. VERY occasionally, they don't have the goods on something, so I ask around here. (Although admittedly, I do bring things up here if I want to hear what she has to say)

Of course, I also wish to hear FtKs opinion on it, whether she thinks these claims are any good, what happened to the Egyptians (no FtK, I haven't dropped that one yet, you said you had answers, I want 'em), and what drugs she thinks Walt Brown was smoking, because it IS only fair, and I do make sure I hear both sides of an argument. If one side is pitifully weak, of course, I expect it to get crushed, and my opinion will go to the one with more to back it up.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,16:35

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:24)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:18)

heh. crosspost.

probably would have figured it out faster if I had bothered to read your sig.

*doh!*

Hah, well it doesn't matter.

Ok, anyone explain what this is all about? (The "letter" thing, I mean is it real, or just an excersise in futility?)

Weird Walt Brown Letter thing.

do a search on "evolutionary algorithms" over on PT and on Pharyngula to find this discussed in MANY threads.

be warned: this will end up launching you into a far more complex discussion of actual algorithms quite rapidly.

bottom line: In the case of the link you posted, Brown is just using yet another mistaken argument based merely on incredulity, in this case his incredulity of the amount of base pairs found in human DNA.

I think there is a tangential thread on PT looking at the issue of genome size, that you might want to check out as well.

of course the issue of information and how creationists constantly misuse it wrt to genetics is covered in the TO archives:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/information/infotheory.html

likely you will also find direct reference to the idiotic model Brown tries to use in the link you provided as well.

...and genetic algoritms are covered as well:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/genalg/genalg.html

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,16:41

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:16)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:15)

your avatar kinda reminds me of that actor from the "Transporter" movie series.

Jason Statham? It's not. It's captured BBC reporter Alan Johnston.

Who was the previous avatar?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:55

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2007,16:41)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:16)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:15)

your avatar kinda reminds me of that actor from the "Transporter" movie series.

Jason Statham? It's not. It's captured BBC reporter Alan Johnston.

Who was the previous avatar?

Tut tut, that was Robert DeNiro.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:56

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:35)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:24)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:18)

heh. crosspost.

probably would have figured it out faster if I had bothered to read your sig.

*doh!*

Hah, well it doesn't matter.

Ok, anyone explain what this is all about? (The "letter" thing, I mean is it real, or just an excersise in futility?)

Weird Walt Brown Letter thing.

do a search on "evolutionary algorithms" over on PT and on Pharyngula to find this discussed in MANY threads.

be warned: this will end up launching you into a far more complex discussion of actual algorithms quite rapidly.

bottom line: In the case of the link you posted, Brown is just using yet another mistaken argument based merely on incredulity, in this case his incredulity of the amount of base pairs found in human DNA.

I think there is a tangential thread on PT looking at the issue of genome size, that you might want to check out as well.

of course the issue of information and how creationists constantly misuse it wrt to genetics is covered in the TO archives:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/information/infotheory.html

likely you will also find direct reference to the idiotic model Brown tries to use in the link you provided as well.

...and genetic algoritms are covered as well:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/genalg/genalg.html

It wasn't the argument I was curious about, it was the "conversation" itself.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Henry J

Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

Posted: June 26 2007,16:58

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:10)

I used the word [conversation] because there wasnt anything else that seemed to fit.

Maybe "exchange of comments"?

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,16:59

Quote (Henry J @ June 26 2007,16:58)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:10)

I used the word [conversation] because there wasnt anything else that seemed to fit.

Maybe "exchange of comments"?

I like it. Very politician.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,17:04

Quote

It wasn't the argument I was curious about, it was the "conversation" itself.

oops.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,17:06

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,17:04)

Quote

It wasn't the argument I was curious about, it was the "conversation" itself.

oops.

Again, no worries, I was just wondering if it was a real conversation, or if it was just a made up load of rubbish to show what scientists "really" think and say etc.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,17:08

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:55)

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2007,16:41)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:16)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:15)

your avatar kinda reminds me of that actor from the "Transporter" movie series.

Jason Statham? It's not. It's captured BBC reporter Alan Johnston.

Who was the previous avatar?

Tut tut, that was Robert DeNiro.

Really?

From what film?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,17:09

sorry, haven't the slightest clue for sure, but it don't sound like any conversation I ever had with any scientist, even the ones who claimed to be religious.

it also doesn't jive with any conversations resulting from work on the human genome, if you look at things like even ultra religious folk like Francis Collins (who headed the project) have to say.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,17:09

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2007,17:08)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:55)

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2007,16:41)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,16:16)

Quote (Ichthyic @ June 26 2007,16:15)

your avatar kinda reminds me of that actor from the "Transporter" movie series.

Jason Statham? It's not. It's captured BBC reporter Alan Johnston.

Who was the previous avatar?

Tut tut, that was Robert DeNiro.

Really?

From what film?

I believe it was The Godfather Part II. I may be wrong.

[Edit] I wasn't.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

silverspoon

Posts: 123
Joined: May 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,17:09

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,17:06)

Again, no worries, I was just wondering if it was a real conversation, or if it was just a made up load of rubbish to show what scientists "really" think and say etc.

A creationist insurance salesman recounts a conversation with an unidentified biologist. Sounds awfully suspicious--- don�t you think?

Check out the guys web site.
http://www.ontherightside.com/

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Grand Poobah of the nuclear mafia

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Posted: June 26 2007,17:11

Quote (silverspoon @ June 26 2007,17:09)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,17:06)

Again, no worries, I was just wondering if it was a real conversation, or if it was just a made up load of rubbish to show what scientists "really" think and say etc.

A creationist insurance salesman recounts a conversation with an unidentified biologist. Sounds awfully suspicious--- don�t you think?

Check out the guys web site.
http://www.ontherightside.com/

That's EXACTLY what I thought.

It does seem to have a genuine reference, but the whole thing looks dodgy.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,17:14

Ok, can't find anything on TO, but this looks awfully suspicious to me.

This IS nonsense, isn't it?

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,17:44

Quote (silverspoon @ June 26 2007,17:09)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,17:06)

Again, no worries, I was just wondering if it was a real conversation, or if it was just a made up load of rubbish to show what scientists "really" think and say etc.

A creationist insurance salesman recounts a conversation with an unidentified biologist. Sounds awfully suspicious--- don�t you think?

Check out the guys web site.
http://www.ontherightside.com/

A hundred to one it's a fraud.

This is an ooooooold creationist strategy. Even Dembski's even done it on slow days when he couldn't think of anything else to post. "Oh, I've privately spoken with dozens of real important science types, and they've all told me that real scientists quit believing in evolution long ago! It's just that with the materialist Darwin police out there, they don't dare express this in public, for fear of losing their jobs!"

Also, the language of "Sam, a molecular biologist" doesn't ring true. It's got the exact same 'gee whiz, golly and shucks' tone that Caylor himself has. In other words, 'Sam' talks far more like a creationist insurance salesman than a molecular biologist.

Maybe it's stories like this that lead Joe G the Maytag man to claim that most scientists don't believe in evolution anymore.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

silverspoon

Posts: 123
Joined: May 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,18:53

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2007,17:44)

Maybe it's stories like this that lead Joe G the Maytag man to claim that most scientists don't believe in evolution anymore.

That sounds like good old Joe G., always good for a laugh.
He once told me the giant gas planets in our solar system were placed there to protect earth from asteroid bombardment. When I asked him how that squared with all the evidence of impacts on the earth he went into hand waving mode. I�m glad to see his entertainment value is still top notch. FTK should take lessons from him. Maybe she already has?

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Grand Poobah of the nuclear mafia

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Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,19:46

Quote (silverspoon @ June 26 2007,18:53)

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2007,17:44)

Maybe it's stories like this that lead Joe G the Maytag man to claim that most scientists don't believe in evolution anymore.

That sounds like good old Joe G., always good for a laugh.
He once told me the giant gas planets in our solar system were placed there to protect earth from asteroid bombardment. When I asked him how that squared with all the evidence of impacts on the earth he went into hand waving mode. I�m glad to see his entertainment value is still top notch. FTK should take lessons from him. Maybe she already has?

Hmm, who is this Joe G of whom you speak?

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: June 26 2007,19:59

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ June 26 2007,19:46)

Quote (silverspoon @ June 26 2007,18:53)

�

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2007,17:44)

Maybe it's stories like this that lead Joe G the Maytag man to claim that most scientists don't believe in evolution anymore.

That sounds like good old Joe G., always good for a laugh.
He once told me the giant gas planets in our solar system were placed there to protect earth from asteroid bombardment. When I asked him how that squared with all the evidence of impacts on the earth he went into hand waving mode. I�m glad to see his entertainment value is still top notch. FTK should take lessons from him. Maybe she already has?

Hmm, who is this Joe G of whom you speak?

Legendary anti-evolution bonehead Joe Gallien.

Isn't Blipey the main one here who ~~heckles~~ engages him? Or is Zachriel more of an expert?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: June 26 2007,20:00

"Why are there evolutionists? It appears that not one can defend the position. IOW it appears that the position of evolutionist rests almost entirely on faith."

The first thing I saw. After blue. LOTS of blue.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

JonF

Posts: 634
Joined: Feb. 2005