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ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,13:01   

Dave, here's the thing. You claim that you're here in pursuit of the "truth," and that you want to show us "evolutionists" the "truth," and the error of our ways. You claim that we're blind to the "truth," and if we would only open our eyes to the "truth" you're revealing to us, we'll be, oh, I don't know, "saved," I guess.

But then you get caught in clumsy, obvious lies, over and over again. What do you suppose that does to your credibility as a "bringer of truth"? What do you think that does for your credibility as someone who claims to be able to distinguish between "truth" and "falsity"?

You've been caught over and over in outright lies, misrepresentations, lies by omission, overstatements of your case, and denials of having said something when it's easy enough for someone to go back and demonstrate that you actually did say it. At this point, anyone would have to be an idiot to think that you're any sort of source of "truth" on any subject.

It's not a witch hunt, Dave. It's a credibility assessment. And by now, you ain't got any. Credibility, that is.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,13:04   

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 01 2006,17:03)
Oh wow.  Here we go again on a "AFDave Witch Hunt".  I guess this will be like those other ones about my career and the Wai wai Indians.  Except this one's about Glenn Morton.  I guess Aftershave and Deadman are bored again.  How many miles will they get out of this one?  We'll see!!

Well, you could cut the whole thing off at the pass by openly discussing your readings of Morton's work and how you respond to the very detailed explanations he gives as to why he renounced his YEC. Or, I suppose, you could continue to claim that you don't know much about him or his work, even though we all now have seen the proof that you have indeed studied Morton's work.

WWJD?

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,13:26   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Oct. 01 2006,19:04)
WWJD?

...for a Klondike bar?

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,14:03   

Quote
WWJD?


Dave Lies For Jesus routinely, but I haven't seen any evidence that Jesus lied for himself (or Dave).

Dave's not the greatest advertisement for his faith.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
TangoJuliett



Posts: 12
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,14:03   

[quote=ScaryFacts,Oct. 01 2006,18:26][/quote]
Quote
...for a Klondike bar?

No... for another one of AFDavie's sweet pungent meadow muffins.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,14:12   

Quote (Dave Hawkins at SoundingTheTrumpet @ April 19th, 2006 at 11:29)

Answers for Ivy Privy …

GLENN MORTON
I read Glenn Morton’s story … does his 30,000 ft sedimentary layer have a name or an exact location that you could give me for investigation? It appears to me that his main problem with Flood Geology is that he thinks much more time would be required than is available in the Biblical account. At first glance, it appears that he may not realize that the Creationist view of the Flood involves HUGE upheavals including precipitation of some massive quantity of atmospheric water not present today–possibly a vapor canopy, volcanism and seismic upheaval, collapse of massive underground water reservoirs, massive tectonic activity, massive, global sedimentation and fossilization, and uplift of mountains.

I followed his link and got almost there, but to read the article required a subscription.
3-D seismic reflection tomography on top of the GOCAD depth modeler


 
Quote (Dave Hawkins @ Sep. 30 2006,16:12)
   
Don't know much about Glenn Morton.  Maybe he encountered somebody obnoxious like those redneck creationists Steve Story grew up with and got turned off of YECs.


Dave, why did you lie about not knowing Glenn Morton's story, or his other geologic evidence for an old Earth articles?

Does your ministry teach it's OK to lie like you continually do Dave?

Is lying a sin Dave?

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,14:40   

Okay, let me point out some things, LiarDave. First, it was purely by accident that I found your comments on that thread -- the fact of the matter is that I was going to merely post your photo as an illustration of humanoid pond scum, so I was looking for your website and found that. It amused me to post it.
So what's your response? it's to claim martyrdom and persecution, in a typically feeble AirHeadDave ploy:
   
Quote
I guess this will be like those other ones about my career and the Wai wai Indians.

Now that you're implying that you were somehow persecuted about the WaiWai,  let's review what I just posted a few pages ago in this thread:
 
Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 29 2006,14:28)
DumbAssDaveTheHabitualLiar says;
   
Quote
I had Deadman speculating that my dad never contacted the Wai-wai Indians in Brazil and that I am getting rich off of Kids4Truth.


The fact is that this entire exchange about "contacting WaiWai indians in Brazil" is on pages 88-93 of the previous "AirHead Dave's Wild-Ass Guess " thread part1. Here is how it went. First, Dave makes a stupid claim:      
Quote
There is not a single Wai-wai village that my dad has not had contact with. What in the world are you talking about?
I said that I doubted that, for specific reasons:      
Quote
(p. 91) What I **DID** say was that you lied about me, Dave. You lied about my theistic views, you lied about my charity and social work, you lied about me "never dealing with a jungle tribe" you lied about your father contacting every WaiWai village--How do I know your Dad did NOT contact them? because they were NOT contacted until the 80's-90's, Dave-- You lied about the numbers of CIIPR researchers, you lied about him being the ONLY white person they'd seen " in the 20th century." Your father did not contact every WaiWai group...he could not have. He was not the first white man there in the 20th century, you lied about the CIIPR researchers. Other WaiWai are doing fine without your daddy's help, and in fact your daddy's group would have made it through, too...probably by moving to the highlands as other groups did, from Shefarimo and Masemakari I
and
   
Quote
(p 93): The fact remains that other villages, uncontacted by your father...survived. You may idolize your father to the point of being willing to lie and exaggerate, Dave, but that won't change the facts there. Your father was not in fact the first white man they had seen in the 20th century. The American Museum of Natural History has collections of WaiWai featherwork and weaving collected in the 1920's from that very village. I'm glad that he tried to help. I am not glad that he completed the destruction of their original belief system for that group. Fortunately, other WaiWai held on to theirs. Your father was simply misguided, as you are, Dave. I doubt that you'd show him these pages of your insane lying, though.
The only one that's off his rocker here is you, Dave. You lied about me for no reason other than sheer hubris, as I said. You came into this thread preening about yourself, you continuously degraded others and then cried foul when people returned it. You then proceeded to lie utterly about me and others.
I challenged you to cite any place that I lied, Dave, and you rightly ignored that because you can't find any such place. You deliberately falsely claimed that you knew about me, my views on theology, my work, my life, my emotions, even --as if your belief system makes you some kind of prophet or psychic. Your alligator ego writes checks your mosquito brain can't cash, Dave, so I advise that you get yourself some genuine professional help.

The reason I said I knew Dave's father had not contacted EVERY Brazilian WaiWai group was precisely because the Human Resource Area Files (HRAF) relied on by every anthropologist in the field...stated clearly that specific villages of WaiWai had NOT been contacted by any whites after moving to the Brazilian Highlands regions. They moved before Davey's daddy got there. He did not contact them.

Did Davey's daddy lie to little Davey? Is this where little Davey LEARNED to lie?

You lied about ME long before you brought up the WaiWai. You lied about knowing my religious views, my work experience, you claimed to know I "didn't care about kids" etc., a whole host of things about me on the pages cited. Then you lied about your father's accomplishments. Multiple times. Now you are caught lying again, blatantly. What do you do? YOU IMPLY PERSECUTION????? How low are you, scumboy? Like others have pointed out, this thread is really about your ego, Dave. It's NOT about honesty, science, your religion, really -- It's about YOU and YOUR self-image. and the image it shows under scrutiny is one of fanatical, lying sickness. Congratulations!!

P.S. How ya like me now, Dave? Bend over and talk to me, baby boy.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,14:50   

Argystokes...
Quote
So what's your take on Glenn Morton?


AFD...
Quote
Don't know much about Glenn Morton.  Maybe he encountered somebody obnoxious like those redneck creationists Steve Story grew up with and got turned off of YECs.


Aftershave...
Quote
Dave, why did you lie about not knowing Glenn Morton's story, or his other geologic evidence for an old Earth articles?


Er ... what lie?  Aftershave you're seeing things again. Where did I say I don't know Glenn Morton's story?  I said I don't know much about Glenn Morton.  I have read his online piece and I have heard your propaganda about him.  I am telling the truth ... I DON'T know much about Glenn Morton.  I know he's a geologist and he used to be a YEC.  Poor confused guy!  Why on earth would I lie about my knowledge of Glenn Morton.  Do you have any idea how much I care about what Glenn Morton says?  Zero.

Hey Deadman, give it up ... your speculations about my father and the Wai wais were crazy ... then you tried to say I was getting rich off Kids4truth.  And then you tried to play mind games with me to make think you were physically threatening me if I came to meet you at the Grand Canyon.  Then you started talking about legal action.  

Besides all that, your a really nice guy.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,15:22   

Quote
your speculations about my father and the Wai wais were crazy ... then you tried to say I was getting rich off Kids4truth

I posted precisely what I DID say. I can repost every bit of it if you wish. It's no big deal to me. And I didn't say "rich," ever. I said you were making money off kids and gullible parents. This happens to be factually true, regardless of how you frame it. It is also a fact that your father could not have contacted every WaiWai group, unless both the WaiWai and every outside researcher is lying, including evangelicals who assist in HRAF reports. Are you going to call your fellow religionists liars now, too, because they disagree with you? Face, it, Stupid, you got caught lying far too many times for me to give you the benefit of the doubt.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,15:28   

Dave, you forgot a quote. This is what your post should look like:

 
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 01 2006,19:50)
Argystokes...    
Quote
So what's your take on Glenn Morton?


AFD...    
Quote
Don't know much about Glenn Morton.  Maybe he encountered somebody obnoxious like those redneck creationists Steve Story grew up with and got turned off of YECs.


Aftershave...    
Quote
Dave, why did you lie about not knowing Glenn Morton's story, or his other geologic evidence for an old Earth articles?


 
Quote
GLENN MORTON
I read Glenn Morton’s story … does his 30,000 ft sedimentary layer have a name or an exact location that you could give me for investigation? It appears to me that his main problem with Flood Geology is that he thinks much more time would be required than is available in the Biblical account. At first glance, it appears that he may not realize that the Creationist view of the Flood involves HUGE upheavals including precipitation of some massive quantity of atmospheric water not present today–possibly a vapor canopy, volcanism and seismic upheaval, collapse of massive underground water reservoirs, massive tectonic activity, massive, global sedimentation and fossilization, and uplift of mountains.

I followed his link and got almost there, but to read the article required a subscription.


Er ... what lie?  Aftershave you're seeing things again. Where did I say I don't know Glenn Morton's story?  I said I don't know much about Glenn Morton.  I have read his online piece and I have heard your propaganda about him.  I am telling the truth ... I DON'T know much about Glenn Morton.  I know he's a geologist and he used to be a YEC.  Poor confused guy!  Why on earth would I lie about my knowledge of Glenn Morton.  Do you have any idea how much I care about what Glenn Morton says?  Zero.

Hey Deadman, give it up ... your speculations about my father and the Wai wais were crazy ... then you tried to say I was getting rich off Kids4truth.  And then you tried to play mind games with me to make think you were physically threatening me if I came to meet you at the Grand Canyon.  Then you started talking about legal action.  

Besides all that, your a really nice guy.


Do you see why you have no credibility around here? You even quote-mine yourself. And don't start splitting hairs about not knowing Glenn Morton's story; you do too know what his story is.

Quote (Seven Popes @ Jun. 2, 2006,13:36)
While reading about the sad state of "research" conducted by RATE, I found THIS ARTICLE.
It suggests that a few years in the petroleum industry shook Glenn Morton's (a former YEC) belief system rather badly.


Or are you admitting you never read any of the links provided to you?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,15:39   

Quote
Besides all that, your a really nice guy.

This is amusing on two levels,AirHead. (1) It's an obvious and patently sickening attempt at manipulation, because (2) You don't KNOW me in the least, other than what I have said here in the forum, or what little you may be able to glean from online posts. Just as you could NOT "know" my emotions, my charity work, my feelings about kids, my religious views, my work with the Maya, or anything else you lyingly claimed to "know." For all you "know," I could be a nice guy, a mean guy, a psychotic guy, or virtually any kind of guy. You have no idea about who I am, and frankly, I prefer to keep it that way, since I personally *don't* view you as a "nice" guy, and I certainly mean each and every insult I give you. There remains the slim possibility that you MIGHT change, but I doubt that, so I also foresee no need to change my view of you as a hypocritical willful liar who thinks he speaks for God.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
TangoJuliett



Posts: 12
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,16:06   

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 01 2006,19:50)
Why on earth would I lie about my knowledge of Glenn Morton.

So you won't have to deal with the facts of why he is no longer a YEC, of course.  You seem to be much more interested in brown-nosing that dear sweet loving bigoted dictator you worship than dealing with facts.  Poor lying Davie-Delta-Alpha on the run again....

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,16:31   

Quote (AFDave @ Oct. 01 2006,19:50)

Er ... what lie?   I am telling the truth ...



--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Mike PSS



Posts: 428
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,17:02   

AFDave,
Don't be distracted by those mean and nasty people calling you a liar.  Let's talk about real data and evidence.

I'm putting my summary together about the Isochron graph but first, just like a lawyer would do at a trial, I'll show you all my evidence up front.

I'll be refrencing this site for my arguments about time interpretation of the Isochron graph.  Pretty good site, found it on a Google search while looking for "abundance of elements on the earth".  It's written for high-school or freshman college level so I think it's in our ballpark for discussion.

But first, with all the other noise about lying going on I think you missed my question earlier.
Quote
Do you agree that measured half-live values of Isotopes are acurate?

This means that scientists have acurately measured the decay rate of Isotopes and that, for example, in 48.8billion years from today (or tomorrow, I'll give you that one) then half of the Rb87 found on earth will undergo decay.  I'm not saying anything (yet) about looking backward in time.


Thanks,
Mike PSS

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,17:09   

Yes, all that nonsense makes the thread long to wade through to get to the substance.  Oh well.  Can a leopard change his spots?

Yes, I think the measured half-lives are accurate.  And remember, my only claim is that whole rock isochrons have the possibility (or likelihood) of being mixing diagrams.  I contend that Deep Timers cannot prove that they are not.

And I am hoping you are going to attempt to show me how mineral isochrons prove Deep Time.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Mike PSS



Posts: 428
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,17:31   

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 01 2006,23:09)
Yes, all that nonsense makes the thread long to wade through to get to the substance.  Oh well.  Can a leopard change his spots?

Yes, I think the measured half-lives are accurate.  And remember, my only claim is that whole rock isochrons have the possibility (or likelihood) of being mixing diagrams.  I contend that Deep Timers cannot prove that they are not.

And I am hoping you are going to attempt to show me how mineral isochrons prove Deep Time.

WAIT AFDAVE.  YOU AGREED TO MY SUMMARY.    
Quote (afdave @ Sep. 30 2006,18:18)
Mike PSS ... you are arguing something I don't even have any disagreement with.  Why are you wasting your keystrokes?  Do something productive ... like convince me that the Mineral Isochron method proves Deep Time.
YOU DON'T GET TO ARGUE ABOUT MIXING LINES IF YOU AGREE TO MY SUMMARY.  THAT'S WHAT THE SUMMARY IS ADDRESSING.  IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY SUMMARY THEN PLEASE REREAD IT AND ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS.

Even Deadman liked my summary.  
Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 30 2006,17:29)
Mike : That was nicely done. Now watch Dave run. Run, Dave, run. Evilushuns are after you! Eeeeeeee...
Thank you Deadman.

AFDAVE,
What do you find wrong with my summary about whole rock Isochrons?
I can't begin to mention time until you address this issue.  Your assertions about mixing lines doesn't even need time or half-lives mentioned.  Only that the method of testing whole rock samples to create Isochron graphs is valid.

Please review and respond to the summary.  If you have any questions about it then ask.

Mike PSS

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,17:34   

careful, mike, you're a hairbreadth away from calling AFdumbass a liar!

go figure.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Mike PSS



Posts: 428
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,17:42   

Quote (Ichthyic @ Oct. 01 2006,23:34)
careful, mike, you're a hairbreadth away from calling AFdumbass a liar!

go figure.

Is that what I was doing?  :O
{faux innocence}
I thought I was pointing out to AFDave the inconsistant nature of his most recent statement when held next to a statement he made a day ago that totally contradicts his recent statement.
{/faux innocence}

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,17:44   

*snicker*

I swear, this whole thread feels like throwing balls to dunk the clown.

...and it's gotten to the point where everyone has gotten so practiced at it that it only takes one ball.

everybody gets a prize!

and Dave just gets wetter.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,18:23   

Quote
everybody gets a prize!

I want a pony. Or one of those flying butt monkeys everyone was talking about WAYYYY in the beginning of this thread (Pt.1). Speaking of butt monkeys, how's that sphincter, Dave? Still tender and throbbing?

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,18:31   

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 01 2006,22:09)
Yes, I think the measured half-lives are accurate.  And remember, my only claim is that whole rock isochrons have the possibility (or likelihood) of being mixing diagrams.  I contend that Deep Timers cannot prove that they are not.

And I am hoping you are going to attempt to show me how mineral isochrons prove Deep Time.

But Dave, as I pointed out, you don't need isochrons to prove deep time. Isochrons can tell you how old a particular rock is, but even if they couldn't, your young-earth "hypothesis" still fails observational tests, because if the earth were only 6,000 years old, we would expect to find detectable levels of short-lived radioisotopes such as Pu239.

So even if isochrons were merely "mixing diagrams," a young earth would still be falsified. You've already admitted that measured half-lives are accurate, so where's your escape hatch this time?

What's your explanation for this lack of short-lived radioisotopes? More "miracles"? Or this going to remain one of the very large number of critical objections to your "hypothesis" you're going to continue to ignore?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,18:40   

After intensive research and clandestine x-rays taken at a distance -- I believe we have evidence of AirHeadDave's primary problem.
If that's not proof, I just don't know what IS.
Oh, and thank you, Mike, you do excellent work. Dave's tiny brain is currently racing about the cavernous expanses of his skull, gnawing itself to death.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,18:41   

Mike, I noticed that in your summary which Dave claims he doesn't disagree with, you told him that since he doesn't disagree with your summary, he should instead argue radioactive decay rates. But now he's conceded that radioactive decay rates are accurate as well.

Seems like Dave's sealed off all his own escape routes. No doubt he'll try to unlock those doors, so I suggest you don't let him try the radioactive-decay-rates door unless and until he explains why he was wrong when he said he didn't have a problem with your isochron summary.

I can't compete with you, deadman, and JonF when it comes to radiometric dating methodologies, but at least I can try to keep Dave honest (or at least point out where he's being dishonest, which is most of the time).

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2006,19:08   

Quote
I can't compete with you, deadman, and JonF when it comes to radiometric dating methodologies

Bah, you're too modest, eric. I'm only good at C14; I took some classes with Rainer Berger way back when and did some work with mass spectrometry. Jon and Mike have been handling the load on RM dating, and I'm confident you've got a good handle on it. I'm just enjoying the show. More wine! Bring on the pole dancers! Or Dave in those sweEEeet tidy-whities with the yellow front.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Mike PSS



Posts: 428
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 02 2006,03:17   

Quote (ericmurphy @ Oct. 02 2006,00:41)
Mike, I noticed that in your summary which Dave claims he doesn't disagree with, you told him that since he doesn't disagree with your summary, he should instead argue radioactive decay rates. But now he's conceded that radioactive decay rates are accurate as well.

Seems like Dave's sealed off all his own escape routes. No doubt he'll try to unlock those doors, so I suggest you don't let him try the radioactive-decay-rates door unless and until he explains why he was wrong when he said he didn't have a problem with your isochron summary.

I can't compete with you, deadman, and JonF when it comes to radiometric dating methodologies, but at least I can try to keep Dave honest (or at least point out where he's being dishonest, which is most of the time).

I'm trying to give AFDave a little slack (enough rope to.... well... you get the picture).  He's not in a corner with his argument yet.  I see his "mixing lines/Deep Time" position this way,

Arguing about how "all Isochrons are (insert favorite non-commital phrase here) mixing lines..." doesn't say anything about time or ages or "millionofyearsism".  It only argues against the physical process of sampling and testing rocks.  All you have to show is that a properly identified sample (whole rock or mineral) can result in a linear data set.  I read the tripe from Arndts and Overn and saw through the logical flaws immediately without referencing talkorigins.  Reading other smackdowns of this argument just reinforces how banal is the "mixing" argument.
(Deadman, read through that smackdown, if you haven't already, since it also addresses Humphry's excess Helium halucinations).
Just a reminder, I'm not skilled or detailed with the geology, but the base science that the Isochron method is built upon are used in other areas I am familiar with.

For decay rates, he only agreed that the measured values of decay are accurate.  He didn't say or agree to anything about how to roll these values back in time so this isn't a Catch-22 statement yet.  In fact I don't want to argue that point yet because I need a clear understanding about the present physics before I can show the past.  I don't think Dave understands WHAT arguments are necessary to disprove how physics takes the present measured values of half-lives to validate past time measurements.  His present earth changing events, from initial creation through to the flud, are not the correct arguments against the data.  I don't think AIG or ICR are going to help him on this one with an easy C/P answer.  AFDave will have to fly solo, and we know how skilled he is when that happens. :p

Mike PSS

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 02 2006,04:47   

EVOLUTIONISTS NEED DEEP TIME FOR THEIR THEORY TO WORK



This is a great chart from Michael Denton ... in spite of what the Thumbsters here may say.  Let's look at what they say a little more closely.  

First, Incorygible says Michael Denton doesn't understand evolutionary theory because he says that this chart and what it represents should have been considered one of the most astonishing finds of modern science (p. 281 of his "Evolution: A Theory in Crisis" book).  Now this is amazing that Michael Denton, a professional molecular biologist, who still claims to be an evolutionist in spite of his doubts, by the way, would not understand the Theory of Evolution!

In any case, whether Michael Denton understands evolution or not, I would like to understand it ... Soooo ... let's make a nice numbered list which represents the probable steps from Pond Scum to Deadman :-)  We'll disregard all the parts of the "Great Tree of Life" EXCEPT for the line directly from Pond Scum to Humans.  I don't care about plants right now, or anything else that is not in the ancestry of modern humans ...

1) Pond Scum
2) Amino acids
3) Bacterium
4) First Multi-celled organism [example?]
5) Sponges
6) Worms
7) Squids
8) Fish
9) Amphibians
10) Mammals
11) Apes (Deadman)
12) Humans (AFDave)


OK.  Now I am quite sure I DO NOT have this right except for (1), (10), (11) and (12), so that's where YOU come in ...

Help me out, guys.  Help me get this little chart right so I can understand your theory.

Then I will show you why Evolutionists Need Deep Time

************************************

Also, I read Wesley's article which supposedly refutes Denton's conclusions from the above chart.  Now I can see why Evos are losing ground.  His article doesn't make any sense to me.  Best I can tell, he simply asserts that Tetrahymena should have the same amount of sequence difference from modern humans as any other modern organism, then produces a chart which shows that this is so.  Hello?  McFly?  How did you come up with this assertion, Wes?  Maybe one of you can explain this to me in terms my "macaque brain" can handle.

************************************************

For those of you that have not seen my "Watchmaker Dynamation" hop on over to http://airdave.blogspot.com for my latest post (this morning) which gives my first piece of evidence for the God of the Bible.  And thanks to all of you that helped me "skeptic proof" my argument.

**********************************

Mike PSS (Alias "Current Torch Bearer for Team Evo")--

I am waiting for you to show me how Mineral Isochrons prove Deep Time.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 02 2006,04:56   

Glad to see you're trying hard to strike back with your tiny fists of rage, AirHeadLiar. By the way, Stupid -- "pond scum" = algae, for most thinking humans. Therefore amino acids precede them.
Quote
Also, I read Wesley's article which supposedly refutes Denton's conclusions from the above chart...His article doesn't make any sense to me.

That should be a familiar situation for you, Stupid.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 02 2006,05:09   

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,10:47)
Then I will show you why Evolutionists Need Deep Time.

You need to take a step back at this point and show why evolutionists need evolution.  Right now you have failed to provide evidence of any bias towards evolution.  If there is no "need" for evolution as opposed to any other explanatory theory regarding origins of species, then you still don't have a point.

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 02 2006,05:17   

MOLECULES TO MAN EVOLUTION, REV. 1

1) Little pool of chemicals (forget the pond scum)
2) Amino acids
3) Bacterium
4) First Multi-celled organism [example?]
5) Sponges
6) Worms
7) Squids
8) Fish
9) Amphibians
10) Mammals
11) Apes (Deadman)
12) Humans (AFDave)

More revisions, please ... far be it from me to misrepresent ToE.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 02 2006,05:23   

Quote
You need to take a step back at this point and show why evolutionists need evolution

Excellent point. Neither I nor anyone else I know popped out of the womb "needing" evolution. My personal preference for NeoDarwinian theory was simply the result of long hours studying multiple aspects of competing arguments -- religion,philosophy, genetics, fossils, Lamarckism, etc., etc. If creationism actually had greater explanatory value and theoretical/methodological/philosophical substance...I conceivably would have accepted it. Unfortunately for AirHead Dave's stupid-ass hypothesis...it just ain't so. But Dave needs a villain in his little fantasy world, so it's "darwinism,"  just as for Dimsky, it's " philosophical materialism" I honestly think the term "wanker" suits them both perfectly.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
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