Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Civility

Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:20

Quote (demallien @ Feb. 01 2007,06:48)

Anyway, the answer is "because you're a blithering idiot".

You forgot "pig-ignorant".

:)

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demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:25

Quote

Louis, for me, this whole discussion has been about Lenny's abusive behaviour, and whether or not it's acceptable. You now claim that it's not.

Erm sorry, just where have I said this? Thus far I have, quite deliberately, made no comment about whether or not I consider Lenny's "abusive behaviour" "acceptable" or otherwise.

I meant that you claim that the whole discussion wasn't about whether Lenny's comments were acceptable or not, not that you considered Lenny's comments as unacceptable. Sheesh!

Quote

Fine, I've already said, I'll respond to your "argument", whatever it is, but in the interest of reducing the possibility of misunderstanding, I've asked you to give it to me in a few concise sentences. That way everyone is clear.

And you still haven't answered my questions...

And I say again:

READ.THE.THREAD.

Louis, I've read the thread. I'm not trying to pull a swifty on you. I honestly do not know what argument you are trying to make. Please, for the love of sanity, give it to me clearly and concisely, so that this discussion can actually go forwards!

In the interim, I'm going to hasard my best guess. Feel free to correct me if this wasn't what your argument was all about:

Louis' Argument: That being obtuse, or lying is very rude, and worse than abusing people!!!

There, how did I go?

In answer to that:
Alli's Response (yes, I see you've discovered my real name 2 'l's though! Maybe this silliness about me being Avocationist in disguise can be put to bed now....)

Being obtuse is not rude, lying is rude, but difficult to prove, and abusing people is bad too, but much easier to demonstrate. In all cases, specific circumstances should be taken into account.

Now, how about an answer to my questions: a) were Lenny's comments abusive? and b) Are abusive comments acceptable on this forum?

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:26

Quote

Well this is hardly a formal debate with a mediator to assure opponents are kept on track. If it were, I'd be laying complaints about every ID'er I encounter based on "lack of education" and "wasting time" because they end up getting a FREE education (unless there is a way to charge them for condensing 6 years of biology into single threads).

"How DARE you abuse my TIME"

I also consider Benny Hinn's hair to be abusive.

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!

The one and only correct answer! ;)

I don't mind educating the IDCists. I don't mind providing them with a wealth of info and data. I don;t mind that they ignore it. I DO mind when they lie about it or expect their ignorance to be authoritative and I do mind when they make grandiose unsupported claims based on their stated agenda. I may have made mention of this sort of thing up thread.

Benny Hinn's hair? Doesn't even hold a candle to the offensiveness of the continued existence of Dembski. In a decently ordered universe he'd have to suffer the consequences of his anti-reason. (I'm thinking comedy here people, not violence. I have a mental image of a capricious deity suddenly taking great offense at ID and poofing IDCists out of existence, then recanting, poofing them back in, poofing them a flagellum etc. Basically messing about with poofery! )

Louis

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:28

"control freak" seems appropriate, along with "sanctimonious hypocrite " and blithering idiot.

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demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:33

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 01 2007,07:20)

Quote (demallien @ Feb. 01 2007,06:48)

Anyway, the answer is "because you're a blithering idiot".

You forgot "pig-ignorant".

:)

Lol :-)

Lenny, I would never presume to dream of being able to reach your level of abuse.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:35

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 02 2007,00:17)

Quote (demallien @ Feb. 01 2007,06:30)

Louis, for me, this whole discussion has been about Lenny's abusive behaviour, and whether or not it's acceptable.

I have not been "abusive". �I have been TRUTHFUL. �Avo ***IS*** a pig-ignorant uninformed dolt who should get her uneducated ass to a library and learn what she is talking about BEFORE she talks about it.

Sorry if Avo doesn't like it.

Sorry if YOU don't like it either.

(shrug)

I agree, what Dr. Lenny just said isn't "abusive". Brusque, CHECK! Honest, CHECK! Made me laugh, CHECK!

demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:37

Quote (Fractatious @ Feb. 01 2007,07:35)

I agree, what Dr. Lenny just said isn't "abusive". Brusque, CHECK! Honest, CHECK! Made me laugh, CHECK!

Actually, truth be known, if I had found Lenny's insults original, and hence amusing, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the original post to start with. It was because of the constant boring repetition that he finally annoyed me enough to complain...

You must be easy to make laugh Fractatious...

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:45

Quote

You must be easy to make laugh Fractatious...

Well, in PM, we were certainly laughing over your histrionic double-speak hypocrisy, yeah.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:46

Quote (demallien @ Feb. 02 2007,00:33)

Quote (demallien @ Feb. 01 2007,06:48)

Lenny, I would never presume to dream of being able to reach your level of abuse.

Demallien,

Pig-ignorant is apt. Ever chase pigs around a paddock? Ever wonder why they eventually end up running in circles making lots of noises? This is the most amusing part of my job when I go visit clients and end up being Farmer Joe having to chase bloody chooks because the male is strapped up to police monitor that will trigger security if he goes into the paddock and his elderly mother who looks like she'll drop dead just trying to climb the fence, THEN having to chase silly little pigs with a dog after you - oh yes, PIG IGNORANT is a good term. They cause a catastrophe in their wake because they run around with no clear direction! *scowls*

Louis,

Benny Hinn's hair is VERY abusive. Dembski merely reminds me of a contender for the special olympics - javlin up the ass competitor. (Oh god lords, I may be considered as abusive now - bite me). ID'ers and Creationists formulate their lives on purposely sifting through data to get to presuppositional bullshit, then engage in debates and DEMAND scientific substantiation. Lying then becomes a norm in order to overlook being corrected.

On the "For the Love of.. " thread, I addressed Avo's points on LoT and zilch. Even with her admittance of not knowing maths, she still made a claim towards LoT, I responded and zilch. Phhttt. This is the internet, I'm sure if ID'ers can log onto a board, they can websearch for information on biology, thus saving time. Instead of wasting it.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,07:47

Quote

I meant that you claim that the whole discussion wasn't about whether Lenny's comments were acceptable or not, not that you considered Lenny's comments as unacceptable. �Sheesh!

Gosh so you DO realise that it's possible for one person to write something and for another person to read it, put an interpretation on it that was not intended and run with it. Consider that an object lesson, "Houston, we have progress"! I was wondering just how hard I was going to have to beat you over the head with this little example! ARGH NO WAIT, METAPHOR! METAPHOR!!!! NOT ABUSE!!! HELP!!! ;) See humour, not hostility. Different, really!

Please may I call you Allison? I can't bloody spell Demallien! Louis is my real name btw. I have to say I prefer real names, they make things.....nicer somehow I suppose. I thought I'd do a rapid google to see if you really were GoP or not. I was extremely gratified (see above) to find you weren't.

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Louis' Argument: �That being obtuse, or lying is very rude, and worse than abusing people!!!

There, how did I go?

Not too terribly. �I would quibble with "obtuse" and "abusing" because I'd like to know what you mean by them, otherwise roughly ok, but you missed out all the good bits about dishonesty being anathema to rational discourse especially in a limited forum such as this etc. I liked those bits!

Quote

Being obtuse is not rude, lying is rude, but difficult to prove, and abusing people is bad too, but much easier to demonstrate. �In all cases, specific circumstances should be taken into account.

I'd go along with that to a large extent, again depending on what is meant by obtuse and abuse. Define what you mean if you don't mind.

Quote

Now, how about an answer to my questions: a) were Lenny's comments abusive? and b) Are abusive comments acceptable on this forum?

Ah ah aaaaaahh! Not yet, we're getting warmer. The nuance of the argument is important too and you really need to answer the questions I asked, not the versions of them you like.

Tell you what, I'll do 50%. b) Are abusive comments acceptable on this forum? No idea, I'm not the management. Are abusive comments acceptable to me? Depends on your definition of abuse and the context in which they are made. Telling a proven liar they are a liar is not abuse. Calling someone a "cunt" for simply being a creationist is abuse. I have no problem with the former (even if the word fucking is included) and a massive problem with the latter. I do make a distinction between "abuse" and "not very nice" or "blunt" or "harsh". I don't think harshness, unsympathetic assessment or bluntness is "abuse". Thus I don't think you calling Deadman "a blithering idiot" is abusive. I think it's staggeringly inaccurate and massively hypocritical (dare I say fucking hypocritical?), but very far from abusive (except in the sense, dictionary defined, that it is erroneous).

Louis

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demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:02

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 01 2007,07:47)

Quote

Please may I call you Allison?

I'd prefer not. I generally try to keep the two separate, mostly because I don't like the idea of future employers being able to Google me and read up on personal details. As it is, that dumb ruby list that you found decided to put profile information in the post header - I've been getting spam on my mail account ever since! Anyway, I'm now going to have to wait for that forum, and now THIS forum to disappear off Google's memory banks before I have a nicely separated online persona again...

Anyways, demallien is easy. Dem Allie N, where N is my surname, and Dem was from the fact that I was a member of the Australian Democrats whilst living in Oz...

Anyway Louis, I've played your game, don't go shifting the goal posts. I've answered your questions, and your argument, now answer mine (the full version of question b was about your opinion of whether abuse on this forum is acceptable or not, not what were the current rules).

Calling anyone that can confuse me with Avocationist a blithering idiot is merely a statement of fact, not innaccurate, or hypocritical. Repeated use of the term may however be abusive... Again, circumstances...

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:03

Quote (demallien @ Feb. 02 2007,00:37)

Quote (Fractatious @ Feb. 01 2007,07:35)

I agree, what Dr. Lenny just said isn't "abusive". Brusque, CHECK! Honest, CHECK! Made me laugh, CHECK!

Actually, truth be known, if I had found Lenny's insults original, and hence amusing, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the original post to start with. �It was because of the constant boring repetition that he finally annoyed me enough to complain...

You must be easy to make laugh Fractatious...

Inanity amuses me. Emotive verbiage amuses me. Sarcasm amuses me. I consult Diogenes of Sinope for my amusement.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:05

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 02 2007,00:45)

Quote

You must be easy to make laugh Fractatious...

Well, in PM, we were certainly laughing over your histrionic double-speak hypocrisy, yeah.

Well yes there was that, and your teaching me how to flex my buttocks.

demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:10

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 01 2007,07:45)

Quote

You must be easy to make laugh Fractatious...

Well, in PM, we were certainly laughing over your histrionic double-speak hypocrisy, yeah.

deadman, if you have nothing to offer other than negative blithering, feel free to go away.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:13

Quote

deadman, if you have nothing to offer other than negative blithering, feel free to go away.

BWAHAHA...after I accurately point out that while I didn't insult you, you saw fit to insult me first, while you were crying and moaning and having palpitations over other people's use of language?

And now you want to try to direct the conversation away from that? You've merely further reinforced my opinion of you as an�ersatz control-freak hypocrite and fool.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:14

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 02 2007,00:47)

Quote

I have to say I prefer real names, they make things.....nicer somehow I suppose.

Hi Louis, I'm Jo (short for Josephine). My boss already knows how bad I can be both online and off so I have no problem saying I work for a Health and Social Services Provider. Google will just bring up THIS - its a considerabl waste of my time to hide my identity online, and especially on this forum where Deadman is on. Even if he was not here, it wouldn't worry me.

I vehemently agree on your discussion on liars and hypocrites. Also on what you term as abuse.

I'd like to reiterate again, people are not forced to read or even post. If this board does not have an ignore function, I'm sure people have the ability to just scroll past the people that they consider abusive and who they do not want to read.

Jo

[editted]

demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:17

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 01 2007,08:13)

Quote

deadman, if you have nothing to offer other than negative blithering, feel free to go away.

BWAHAHA...after I accurately point out that while I didn't insult you, you saw fit to insult me first, while you were crying and moaning and having palpitations over other people's use of language?

And now you want to try to direct the conversation away from that? You've merely further reinforced my opinion of you as a ersatz control-freak hypocrite and fool.

Everyone else has moved on deadman. We've actually started to get to the heart of the matter. But feel free to blither on in your corner...

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:18

Quote

Thus I don't think you calling Deadman "a blithering idiot" is abusive.

I do. I'm wounded to the quick, and my quick doesn't need any more abuse. I'm crying softly to myself even as I type.

I may have to call up the thread police and issue a whiny complaint, or should I instead try to get everyone to agree with my ideas of civility instead? Being a control freak, I'll do the latter. So:

Louis, you ignorant French slut, please realize that MY standards are the standards that the entire universe should conform to if they wish to be known as civil. Do try and rise to my arbitrary level of decency, there's a good chap, K? thnx.

Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 14 2007,22:35)

I -- being the extremely sensitive and civilized sort -- cannot abide the fearful extremities of language I have encountered here; blasphemy, cursing, insults and vulgarities of the lowest, basest sort.

I cringe each time my delicate sensibilites are assaulted by the filthy vileness interwoven amidst the fragile petals of logic and reason in these threads.

Shame on you all! �*shakes his finger roundly*

HAHAHA edit:

Quote

Everyone else has moved on deadman.

wow, you speak for EVERYONE NOW?!?! ####, you're more of a control freak than I thought. And stupid, to boot.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:21

Demallien,

I was joking about it being difficult to spell. {Sigh} One tries to lighten the mood, engage in bluff cameraderie, and gets slapped in the face. Oh well.

No goalposts are being moved, nuances Demallien. The Devil is in the detail. Dammit I WILL have a sensible reading of my argument out of you before christmas! ;)

Like I said, whether or not you have described my argument accurately depends on your ability to define what you consider "abuse" and "obtuse". I've defined what I mean by them, as of course you'd know having read my argument so thoroughly and all. You have my full and complete answer to question b), which isn't simply what the board rules are as you would know if you had read it. Kindly do as you have been asked and you'll get a full and complete answer to question a).

I'm afraid that thus far I'd have to agree with Deadman's and Fractatious's assessments of hypocrisy, hysteria, emotive verbiage and inanity. BUT please prove this assessment wrong. I want to be wrong. I want Deadman and Fractatious to be wrong about this. I beg you show us that we are wrong, please. You might doubt my sincerity here and see sarcasm where none is intended, but play a game, pretend I am not the evil, hostile, judgemental, aggressive, bully you think I am.

Louis

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:28

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 02 2007,01:21)

I want Deadman and Fractatious to be wrong about this.

Woah wait a sec - I'm never wrong! ;)

1. The other board had a good discussion going on.

2. It was brought to a screeching halt with claims of abuse.

3. Louis was considerate enough to shift that thread to a more appropriate thread.

4. Hopefully the previous thread will restart where it left off BEFORE the claims of "abuse".

5. It's almost unanimous, that most posting here will not tolerate lying or hypocrisy.

6. Censorship does not have a strong filter on this board (good).

So, what is an amicable solution - making note that it would be agreeable by all?

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:30

Question: Demallien -- when you say "everyone has moved on now" are you presuming to speak for all other posters, or are you referring to your two faces? Perhaps your other personalities? Maybe you have a mouse or rat in your...er...pocket? Or are you using a royal collective?

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:32

Deadman,

Here's the full quote:

Quote

Thus I don't think you calling Deadman "a blithering idiot" is abusive. I think it's staggeringly inaccurate and massively hypocritical (dare I say fucking hypocritical?), but very far from abusive (except in the sense, dictionary defined, that it is erroneous).

So how about next time IN CONTEXT you syphillitic bastard offspring of a three century dead man-whore. After all in your leap for umbrage you seem to have missed the point that as the Arbiter of All that is Good and Tasteful (and in no way an hysterical sanctimonious hypocrite) it is actually MY set of totally arbitrary standards that rule the Universe for ever and ever and ever, so there. With knobs on.

Anyway, D'Tard said I was a homo, which makes me special. And he's called me a homo more times than he's called you a homo. So there, again, with cherries on top. How do you like that selection box of assorted sweetmeats and candies?

Louis

P.S. Oh FUCK! I'm unconsciously channeling the Tard, JAD and several other loons!

{washes brain out with bleach}

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:36

Yeah, but you're still FRENCH, Louis . I win!!!

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:43

Quote

Woah wait a sec - I'm never wrong! ;)

Jo (thanks btw),

Tchoh! Typical woman! ;)

ARGH NO!!!! STOP!!! WHY ARE YOU HITTING ME??!!?!?!

Oh I get it!

Quote

So, what is an amicable solution - making note that it would be agreeable by all?

Setting fire to sanctimonious hypocrites who complain about the use of the word "fuck"? I'M KIDDING!!!! WHY ARE YOU ALL HITTING ME AGAIN???!?!?! Oh a spanking! Excellent!

No idea. I will attempt to modify my language so that I don't fucking swear so fucking much. As I'm only fucking human, I may fuck up once in a while though, so don't fuck me over about it too fucking often. Lenny should continue as is, and we should all learn to love one another for our differences, not in spite of them.

Louis

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demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:44

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 01 2007,08:30)

Question: Demallien -- when you say "everyone has moved on now" are you presuming to speak for all other posters, or are you referring to your two faces? Perhaps your other personalities? Maybe you have a mouse or rat in your...er...pocket? Or are you using a royal collective?

No deadman, I was referring to the fact that Jo, Louis, and I, the three other active participants in this thread, had moved on to discuss other things. Get a clue, get a life...

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:50

Quote

No deadman, I was referring to the fact that Jo, Louis, and I, the three other active participants in this thread, had moved on to discuss other things. �Get a clue, get a life...

And yet both mentioned your hypocrisy and allude still to your weird behavior, just as I did in noting that you did exactly what you whined about in others. And they continued to do so after you had claimed to speak for them.

As for "having a life"...again, you might want to look in the mirror.

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demallien

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:50

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 01 2007,08:21)

Demallien,

I was joking about it being difficult to spell. {Sigh} One tries to lighten the mood, engage in bluff cameraderie, and gets slapped in the face. Oh well.

No goalposts are being moved, nuances Demallien. The Devil is in the detail. Dammit I WILL have a sensible reading of my argument out of you before christmas! ;)

Like I said, whether or not you have described my argument accurately depends on your ability to define what you consider "abuse" and "obtuse". I've defined what I mean by them, as of course you'd know having read my argument so thoroughly and all. You have my full and complete answer to question b), which isn't simply what the board rules are as you would know if you had read it. Kindly do as you have been asked and you'll get a full and complete answer to question a).

I'm afraid that thus far I'd have to agree with Deadman's and Fractatious's assessments of hypocrisy, hysteria, emotive verbiage and inanity. BUT please prove this assessment wrong. I want to be wrong. I want Deadman and Fractatious to be wrong about this. I beg you show us that we are wrong, please. You might doubt my sincerity here and see sarcasm where none is intended, but play a game, pretend I am not the evil, hostile, judgemental, aggressive, bully you think I am.

Louis

Louis

a) You're not very funny. If you want others to understand that you're joking, may I recommend that you put a smiley face on the remark concerned, so that it's clear.

b) I didn't think giving you the key to the mnemonic for my pseudo was a slap in the face. I was just trying to help...

c)my definitions of 'obtuse' and 'abuse' are those of the dictionary. To help you out a little further, I consider Lenny's comments to be abuse. You can look at the earlier post that contained the full list. that said, context is important. Example: calling a friend "you absolute bastard" because they just won a car in a lottery is not abuse, but calling someone with whom you are having a disagreement an absolute bastard most certainy is abuse. In the case of Lenny, I found that the incessant repeating of the insults, with no other attempt to join in the conversation to be abusive, and hence offensive. But I really can't discuss this sensibly with hypotheticals. Each case must be judged on its merits.

You haven't answered either of my questions Louis. question a) Do you think Lenny's comments on the Avocationist thread are abuse? Question b) Do you think that abuse is OK on this forum.

You specifically did NOT answer question b. Instead you chose to answer question c, which was "Is abuse acceptable to Louis?" This was not the question asked.

But look, I'll let question b) go for now. Just give me a nice quick yes or no to question a.

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:52

Quote

Yeah, but you're still FRENCH, Louis . I win!!!

It maybe be true that on my paternal grandmother's side I have some French ancestry, but did I mention that the three century dead man-whore from whence you were spawned was a BELGIAN?

MWAH HA HA HAAAA!

Louis

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Posted: Feb. 01 2007,08:55

Hi Louis

Quote

Tchoh! Typical woman! ;)

I suppose that's better than being called atypical :D

Quote

ARGH NO!!!! STOP!!! WHY ARE YOU HITTING ME??!!?!?!

Because the chipmunks are taking a 15 minute break.

Quote

Setting fire to sanctimonious hypocrites who complain about the use of the word "fuck"? I'M KIDDING!!!! WHY ARE YOU ALL HITTING ME AGAIN???!?!?! Oh a spanking! Excellent!

I'm a huge campaigner for immolation. I mean, its FREE. Takes very little resources. G'#### chipmunks are still on break!

Quote

No idea. I will attempt to modify my language so that I don't fucking swear so fucking much. As I'm only fucking human, I may fuck up once in a while though, so don't fuck me over about it too fucking often. Lenny should continue as is, and we should all learn to love one another for our differences, not in spite of them.

Lenny is all about the FREEDOM OF SPEECH *screeches off a random national anthem* But I'm curious as to why Deadman is underfire.. I mean he's the most placcid flaccid, hippy tree planting, fungus finding kind of guys! There is NO issue!

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