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Amadan Posts: 1337 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,08:35    Forastero, A little tip from the grown-ups. Ad hominem is the logical fallacy of arguing that a proposition is false because of a characteristic of the person proposing it. For example, it would be an ad hominem for me to tell reader to disregard what you say because you have red hair or are left-handed. Describing you or the assertions you inflict on us as stupid is not ad hominem. It is a mixture of verbal abuse, fair comment and entertaining derision. You will find that it tends to stop (or at least ease off a bit) if you present evidence and argument in support of your position. But it's been a while since there was a half-way decent chew-toy for the scientists here, so carry on as you were. -------------- "People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011 JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,09:50    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Oct. 25 2011,15:47)   Quote (Louis @ Oct. 25 2011,08:35)     Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Oct. 25 2011,13:24)     Quote Do you really think that anymore reading miles outside your peer level looking for loop holes like some tree house lawyer is going to fix your comprehension problem? baaahaha no but he can probably troll up some meat while he looks for the glory loop hole.  after all it's not so much of a comprehension problem as it is a mental retardation He doesn't have to be retarded, he merely has to be ignorant and incompetent in the relevant fields of study. Messers Dunning and Kruger strike again. Louis he doesn't have to be....  it just works out that way i think refusing to understand something you deny anyway is even dumber than i can imagine hmmm in f's case as a cool ID dude sitting on the shit pile that is ID refusing counts as understanding. We know he isn't Behe who is probably the only card carrying IDist who could grock any actual biology and even then there would be so much arm waving he could get a gig in Las Vagas as a magicians assistant. Fuckface on the otherhand would have difficulty getting getting a start as a ventriloquist's dummy. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,09:52    Quote Btw, chimps and humans actually differ by around 5% and chimps.  Mice and human share about 98 %. That's comparing numbers that came from measuring different aspects of the DNA. Quote No wonder y’all wont try  to explain to me  the origin of the up to 100 different Cambrian phyla. My take on that is that the species of that time period diverged from each other before they had acquired specialized limb structures, and so wound up developing different limb structures. Quote So thats your excuse to avoid explaining your so called natural mutation selection? Those are basic concepts in the subject matter. Anybody seriously arguing about the subject would have already studied the basics. Quote but in my opinion, if two critters can interbreed and produce fertile offspring then they should be considered the same species no matter how separated they are. That would change how the word is used; it would have no effect on the underlying subject matter.

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,11:20    Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,01:04) Quote (jeannot @ Oct. 24 2011,00:32)   Quote (forastero @ Oct. 23 2011,17:20) Hmm..you guys sure are taking a long time to find a robust critter the horse? the blue whale? EDIT: given the billion of species that existed I'm pretty sure you can find an ancestor that was more robust than a extant descendent... or weaker. Depends on which ancestor you pick. What's your point? So you want to add multi-toed beasts to horses ey? Then here's a Hyracodontid (in the background to the right) http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature.....e_1.jpg P.S I had to delete your image and mine because for some strange reason I can no longer post or qote anything with images So is the blue whale a robust critter of not? What about the horse? Why is this relevant to the debate?

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,12:37    Quote (jeannot @ Oct. 25 2011,11:20) Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,01:04) Quote (jeannot @ Oct. 24 2011,00:32)   Quote (forastero @ Oct. 23 2011,17:20) Hmm..you guys sure are taking a long time to find a robust critter the horse? the blue whale? EDIT: given the billion of species that existed I'm pretty sure you can find an ancestor that was more robust than a extant descendent... or weaker. Depends on which ancestor you pick. What's your point? So you want to add multi-toed beasts to horses ey? Then here's a Hyracodontid (in the background to the right) http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature.....e_1.jpg P.S I had to delete your image and mine because for some strange reason I can no longer post or qote anything with images So is the blue whale a robust critter of not? What about the horse? Why is this relevant to the debate? Honestly, I'm not even sure what the debate is anymore. forastero is like a guy that I just put into moderation on my blog... so lacking science that it is impossible to actually hold a conversation with them. What has happened to creationists?  AFDave was wrong about many things, in complete denial, and monumentally dunning-krueger, but he wasn't a complete moron. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,14:19    Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 24 2011,18:10) Quote (Wolfhound @ Oct. 24 2011,14:03) Quote (Amadan @ Oct. 24 2011,13:37) Falando do quem, has AFDave been seen anywhere recently? He discovered an[other] exciting business opportunity when Febble et al painted him into the corner of a zircon crystal at TalkOrigins a few months ago. It would be such as shame to lose the Internet's premier resource for countering creationism. I'd been wondering, myself.  Deadman and I wax nostalgic about him once in a while.  Lousy pillow talk but still amusing. I'd imagine it's an excellent contraceptive. Not as good as my personality. -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

rossum Posts: 289 Joined: Dec. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,15:39    Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,01:10) No wonder y’all wont try  to explain to me  the origin of the up to 100 different Cambrian phyla. Some advice.  You really need to check your information before posting here.  We have only identified 13 phyla that were present during the Cambrian, and four of then were also present in the Vendian, before the Cambrian started. It is possible that a few other phyla were present during the Vendian or Cambrian, it is just that we do not have any fossil record of them -- think small and squishy marine invertebrates that don't fossilize well. It is worth pointing out that all land plant phyla started after the Cambrian.  Not a lot of ID sites wittering on about the "Cambrian Explosion" tell you about that.  Yet another reason to check your sources carefully. rossum -------------- The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2011,20:48    Quote Not as good as my personality. POTW!!! 1111 -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2011,02:01    Quote (rossum @ Oct. 25 2011,16:39) Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,01:10) No wonder y’all wont try  to explain to me  the origin of the up to 100 different Cambrian phyla. Some advice.  You really need to check your information before posting here.  We have only identified 13 phyla that were present during the Cambrian, and four of then were also present in the Vendian, before the Cambrian started. It is possible that a few other phyla were present during the Vendian or Cambrian, it is just that we do not have any fossil record of them -- think small and squishy marine invertebrates that don't fossilize well. It is worth pointing out that all land plant phyla started after the Cambrian.  Not a lot of ID sites wittering on about the "Cambrian Explosion" tell you about that.  Yet another reason to check your sources carefully. rossum c'mon, rossum. 13 rounded up to the nearest hundred is 100. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2011,06:29    Quote (Wolfhound @ Oct. 25 2011,22:19) Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 24 2011,18:10) Quote (Wolfhound @ Oct. 24 2011,14:03)   Quote (Amadan @ Oct. 24 2011,13:37) Falando do quem, has AFDave been seen anywhere recently? He discovered an[other] exciting business opportunity when Febble et al painted him into the corner of a zircon crystal at TalkOrigins a few months ago. It would be such as shame to lose the Internet's premier resource for countering creationism. I'd been wondering, myself.  Deadman and I wax nostalgic about him once in a while.  Lousy pillow talk but still amusing. I'd imagine it's an excellent contraceptive. Not as good as my personality. Your personality, AFDave inspired pillow talk and contraceptives in the one thought... You know if you could bottle that creationism would be cured forever. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2011,20:28    Did we break it? Hey forastero, there's something that WAS more robust in the past... creationists.  These modern guys have no stamina. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2011,20:47    Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,04:20)       Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,06:07) Again, as soon as one of ya explain to me whats currently accepted <snip> ,,,and I will read these soon and right after I read another article that Jeannot provided for me. ,,,hmmm If/when I start seeing links to YouTube quantum woo, the design inference will become compelling. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2011,21:58    Quote (OgreMkV @ Oct. 26 2011,20:28) Did we break it? Hey forastero, there's something that WAS more robust in the past... creationists.  These modern guys have no stamina. What are the odds he/she actually learned how much they did not know, and went to learn some science? -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2011,23:36    Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Oct. 26 2011,19:58) Quote (OgreMkV @ Oct. 26 2011,20:28) Did we break it? Hey forastero, there's something that WAS more robust in the past... creationists.  These modern guys have no stamina. What are the odds he/she actually learned how much they did not know, and went to learn some science? As if. Went cherry-picking, more likely. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,01:27    Forastero, in addition to all your explosions it seems there are some implotions you'll have to come to terms with too. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,11:56    Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Oct. 26 2011,19:58) Quote (OgreMkV @ Oct. 26 2011,20:28) Did we break it? Hey forastero, there's something that WAS more robust in the past... creationists.  These modern guys have no stamina. What are the odds he/she actually learned how much they did not know, and went to learn some science? Zero. He wasn't here to learn.  He was here to preach. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,12:03    naah he was looking for a date -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,14:07    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Oct. 27 2011,12:03) naah he was looking for a date "Big Bang"? I just stayed out of this. I remember when another creationist showed up and Lenny just lashed out with a, "Dude, do you have to recycle all the old canards, uuggghhh, how boooring!" and I thought, "Well, that's a little rude." I don't think it's rude anymore! These people do not have Alzheimer's, so what is their excuse? I'm sick of playing the standard chess opening all the time with them. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,15:23    Creationist comes in and asks questions, is generally polite, refers to evidence, debates with intellectual honesty (even to the point of saying "I can't accept that but I'll go and read about it"), I will welcome him with open arms and call him brother. Creationist comes in and waves his arrogant little wee-wee around like Forastero and pretends to knowledge he clearly doesn't have, debates in bad faith and is generally rude, I will mock him and treat him with the scorn he deserves or simply ignore him. Simple! Louis -------------- Bye.

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,16:36    Quote (Kristine @ Oct. 27 2011,15:07) I don't think it's rude anymore! These people do not have Alzheimer's, so what is their excuse? I'm sick of playing the standard chess opening all the time with them. And you'd think they'd tire of being pwned at K4. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,18:00    And there's no banning involved. He really seems to have decided that discussion is not what he wants. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,18:13    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 27 2011,18:00) And there's no banning involved. He really seems to have decided that discussion is not what he wants. No, it didn't really seem like forastero was much interested in discussing anything. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,19:54    Probably just fulfilling the course requirements for Dembski's Brainless Trolling 101 course at Southwestern Jesus and Barbeque. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,20:19    Quote (Lou FCD @ Oct. 27 2011,19:54) Probably just fulfilling the course requirements for Dembski's Brainless Trolling 101 course at Southwestern Jesus and Barbeque. Happy Jaysustween, everybody! -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2011,21:18    Now THAT is what I call a shimmy! Hurrah! Louis -------------- Bye.

MichaelJ Posts: 462 Joined: June 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 30 2011,00:08    Quote (afarensis @ Oct. 28 2011,09:13) Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 27 2011,18:00) And there's no banning involved. He really seems to have decided that discussion is not what he wants. No, it didn't really seem like forastero was much interested in discussing anything. Not necessarily watching Byers and IBIG here, I've noticed that when real science happens they disappear for awhile until the uncomfortable questions get pushed far enough down the line.

forastero Posts: 458 Joined: Oct. 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 01 2011,01:44    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 25 2011,06:13) Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,06:07) Again, as soon as one of ya explain to me whats currently accepted Sigh. Perhaps you should read this: http://www.amazon.com/Greates....&sr=1-4 So, here's what is currently accepted: The origin of species that we observe around us has no telic input whatsoever. Unguided evolution is the origin of biological diversity. A specific example:  Yanoconodon allini shows a transition between modern mammals and their distant ancestors which illustrates a transitional structure in the long process of evolution of mammal ears. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....-action Evolution explains the origin of mammalian ears via a series of such data points. How does ID explain the origin of mammalian ears? I doubt if there are any blind watch makers and genes are not really selfish And your second link is just more pseudoempiricism and circular reasoning. I mean, to resurrect so called ancestral genes, y’all are implementing modern evolutionism to infer so called primordial evolution in order to infer modern evolutionism. Plus, no small mutations are known to fine-tune anything, especially these hopeful monsters In all honesty articles like these just sadden me because they only prove to me how desperately lost so many of you really are.

forastero Posts: 458 Joined: Oct. 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 01 2011,01:57    Quote (jeannot @ Oct. 25 2011,11:20) Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,01:04) Quote (jeannot @ Oct. 24 2011,00:32)   Quote (forastero @ Oct. 23 2011,17:20) Hmm..you guys sure are taking a long time to find a robust critter the horse? the blue whale? EDIT: given the billion of species that existed I'm pretty sure you can find an ancestor that was more robust than a extant descendent... or weaker. Depends on which ancestor you pick. What's your point? So you want to add multi-toed beasts to horses ey? Then here's a Hyracodontid (in the background to the right) http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature.....e_1.jpg P.S I had to delete your image and mine because for some strange reason I can no longer post or qote anything with images So is the blue whale a robust critter of not? What about the horse? Why is this relevant to the debate? Baleen whale fossils are extremely rare but giant fossil whales have been found, including one with a 4-meter skull from Chili and I believe an even larger one was recently found there. I think most blue whale skulls average 3.5 meters without the blubber. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i....286.jpg http://news.discovery.com/animals....il.html Plus, sperm whales in the same Miocene vicinity are larger than modern representatives so ……

forastero Posts: 458 Joined: Oct. 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 01 2011,02:04    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 25 2011,06:13) Quote (forastero @ Oct. 25 2011,06:07) Again, as soon as one of ya explain to me whats currently accepted Sigh. Perhaps you should read this: http://www.amazon.com/Greates....&sr=1-4 So, here's what is currently accepted: The origin of species that we observe around us has no telic input whatsoever. Unguided evolution is the origin of biological diversity. A specific example:  Yanoconodon allini shows a transition between modern mammals and their distant ancestors which illustrates a transitional structure in the long process of evolution of mammal ears. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....-action Evolution explains the origin of mammalian ears via a series of such data points. How does ID explain the origin of mammalian ears? Migrating jaws and ears is just more silly conjectures; and again, so called homologies in no way prove evolution or dismiss intelligent design. In fact, a loving creator not only wants to give all life a fair shake but also to live in ecological balance and harmony. Homologies also instill empathy with man. Plus, this incessant referral to everything found during the so called age of reptiles as reptilian is just one more of the myriad ways that evolutionism retards science. The myriad mammal-like reptiles are actually mammals, many of which can still be found living today. Come to think of it, I bet most Cambrian critters can still be found living today. Oh and while we’re on the subjects of giant mammalian sea critters, some dolphins were bigger and badder than even megalodon (giant great white) P.S. sorry but please ignore the second half of my above response to you for that was actually meant for a different member

forastero Posts: 458 Joined: Oct. 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 01 2011,02:08    Quote (jeannot @ Oct. 23 2011,11:57) This study might also be of interest: cristal structure of an ancient protein This is just more pseudoempiricism and circular reasoning. I mean, to resurrect so called ancestral genes, y’all are just implementing modern evolutionism to infer so called primordial evolution in order to infer modern evolutionism. Plus, no small mutations are known to fine-tune anything, especially these hopeful monsters In all honesty articles like these just sadden me because they only prove to me how desperately lost so many of you really are.

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