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Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2013,13:28    Quote there is a very simple proof Unfortunately, space does not permit me to go into it rigorously here. Granville's Last Theorem. We should be so lucky. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2013,13:29    Fictional causes are always superior to empirical ones, since they aren't limited by physics. That's why God did it is no problem, while pitiful "natural causes" are wholly inadequate. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2013,15:52    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 01 2013,14:10) granville: Quote Here are a couple of difficult mathematical problems for you to work on, in your spare time: And here is a difficult problem from biology: [longish snip] The proofs that the above mathematical problems are impossible to solve were quite difficult, but there is a very simple proof that the biological problem posed above is impossible to solve. All one needs to do is realize that if a solution were found, we would have proved something obviously false, that a few (four, apparently) fundamental, unintelligent forces of physics alone could have rearranged the fundamental particles of physics into libraries full of science texts and encyclopedias, computers connected to monitors, keyboards, laser printers and the Internet, cars, trucks, airplanes, nuclear power plants and space shuttles. A very simple �proof�, but I cannot imagine how anything in science could ever be proved more conclusively, it is all the proof I need, at least. linky argument from incredulity creationists are just so boring. Declaring something "obviously false" is all the proof Sewell needs?  It must be easy to get an A in his math classes.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2013,16:13    Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 01 2013,13:52) Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 01 2013,14:10) granville:   Quote Here are a couple of difficult mathematical problems for you to work on, in your spare time: And here is a difficult problem from biology: [longish snip] The proofs that the above mathematical problems are impossible to solve were quite difficult, but there is a very simple proof that the biological problem posed above is impossible to solve. All one needs to do is realize that if a solution were found, we would have proved something obviously false, that a few (four, apparently) fundamental, unintelligent forces of physics alone could have rearranged the fundamental particles of physics into libraries full of science texts and encyclopedias, computers connected to monitors, keyboards, laser printers and the Internet, cars, trucks, airplanes, nuclear power plants and space shuttles. A very simple �proof�, but I cannot imagine how anything in science could ever be proved more conclusively, it is all the proof I need, at least. linky argument from incredulity creationists are just so boring. Declaring something "obviously false" is all the proof Sewell needs? �It must be easy to get an A in his math classes. All that science and mathematics is unnecessary if you know you're right.   Anyone who disagrees is either stupid or part of the conspiracy to get you.  Obviously.  Because you know you're right. See also: Gary Gaulin. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2013,19:05    Quote A �cost� is a �goal� February 1, 2013 Posted by niwrad under Intelligent Design 7 Comments The researchers have simulated �25,000 generations of evolution within computers� and believe to have discovered why biological systems show modularity. Darwinists always said that evolution works because of a �cost of unfit� only. Today they add a �cost of wiring� to get modules. I suspect tomorrow they will add a �cost of blindness� to get eyes, the day after tomorrow they will add a �cost of immobility� to get legs � and so on. __ Also, Darwinists always said that evolution is blind and has no goal. But each �cost� is a �goal�. So, what they call �deeper understanding of the evolution of complexity� seems to me simply additional contradictions of their theory. No, each cost is a cost. Modules were a consequence of wiring cost. There is nothing contradictory to evolution here, it's evolution explaining shit. Science. eta linky Edited by stevestory on Feb. 01 2013,20:08

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2013,23:16    vjtorely is just disgusting. � Quote The Holocaust of the Jews is often cited as an example of an example of objective moral evil. And by definition the murderers must have been atheists committing their crimes to promote teaching evolution theory in 21 century US schools undermining morality in the country and the rest of the world. Doesn't this twit have any idea about the history of antisemitism? Taliban christian apologists like VJ and KF with their arrogant moral supremacy attitude don't respect the victims but rather abuse them. By pointing to "judeo-christian" traditions they decry Judaism as an independent religion. For God's sake it were Jews who have been killed in Auschwitz not US evangelical christians! And many of those involved in organizing and running the holocaust were indeed Sunday church goers. Evolution theory �may be a problem for religious people that deserves to be seriously discussed. But I am sick of all those VJs and KFs who stylize themselves as being persecuted and as the next coming martyrs. I am sick of their self-centered intolerant thaught masturbation and the stains their multiple brain come leaves at UD. BTW, I have to apologize that I once criticized The Whole Truth for being to harsh towards KF. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,02:45    Quote The fact that you believe that 9/11 was not an inside job and the fact that we ate supposed to give importance to the scientific method on these threads and yet deliberately ignore the scientific evidence out of pychological conveniences smacks of outright dishonesty to me. Source What could draw someone with such a disregard for proper inference from the evidence toward ID? Such mysteries may never be fathomed. Glen Davidson PS, of course I know that many Truthers were not creationists, however in this case it really is pretty clear that the optionality of truth typical in IDiots is quite consistent with the optionality of truth about 9/11 for this Muslim IDiot, and it's fun to watch Xian IDiots who are appalled at such lack of respect for truth in this case. �And it was so charming when he was just hating on science. -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,02:51    LOL. That muslim dude that popped up recently is proselytizing at the UDites by enlightening them to the fact that Christianity is actually based on the heretical lies of one Mr. Paul ( n�e Saul) of Tarsus. On the whole, this has not been very well received. Still, KF and Batshit seem to be making the most of this opportunity to preach it like it is. Oh, and Muslim Dude has decided it was also a fantastic time to inform everyone there that 9/11 was an inside job. �And additionally, the work of the Jews. Money quote: Quote 9/11 and 7/7 to name but a few are clearcut inside jobs so come to terms with it and get over it! Can't decide if Poe or not. �In any case, I expect there will be an involuntary departure from the Big Tent in due course. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,02:54    Quote (sparc @ Feb. 01 2013,21:16) vjtorely is just disgusting. �   Quote The Holocaust of the Jews is often cited as an example of an example of objective moral evil. And by definition the murderers must have been atheists committing their crimes to promote teaching evolution theory in 21 century US schools undermining morality in the country and the rest of the world. Doesn't this twit have any idea about the history of antisemitism? Taliban christian apologists like VJ and KF with their arrogant moral supremacy attitude don't respect the victims but rather abuse them. By pointing to "judeo-christian" traditions they decry Judaism as an independent religion. For God's sake it were Jews who have been killed in Auschwitz not US evangelical christians! And many of those involved in organizing and running the holocaust were indeed Sunday church goers. Evolution theory �may be a problem for religious people that deserves to be seriously discussed. But I am sick of all those VJs and KFs who stylize themselves as being persecuted and as the next coming martyrs. I am sick of their self-centered intolerant thaught masturbation and the stains their multiple brain come leaves at UD. BTW, I have to apologize that I once criticized The Whole Truth for being to harsh towards KF. Sparc, I appreciate that, seriously. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,03:08    Quote (sparc @ Feb. 01 2013,21:16) vjtorely is just disgusting. �   <snip> I really liked this bit of his giant TARD bolus: Quote A community which declares that morality is merely a social construct debases itself. It also lays itself open to the possibility of anti-social individuals saying: �I don�t want to play that game. I�m going to change the rules.� Hey, dipshit: anti-social individuals will do that anyway, objective morality or no. That's kind of a defining characteristic of sociopaths. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

REC Posts: 638 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,10:31    Quote (didymos @ Feb. 02 2013,02:51) LOL. That muslim dude that popped up recently is proselytizing at the UDites by enlightening them to the fact that Christianity is actually based on the heretical lies of one Mr. Paul ( n�e Saul) of Tarsus. On the whole, this has not been very well received. Still, KF and Batshit seem to be making the most of this opportunity to preach it like it is. Oh, and Muslim Dude has decided it was also a fantastic time to inform everyone there that 9/11 was an inside job. �And additionally, the work of the Jews. Money quote:   Quote 9/11 and 7/7 to name but a few are clearcut inside jobs so come to terms with it and get over it! Can't decide if Poe or not. �In any case, I expect there will be an involuntary departure from the Big Tent in due course. I don't think that is a Poe. It has YouTube posts going back years under that name. Nope-UD has attracted yet another genuine crackpot.

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,11:00    Quote (REC @ Feb. 02 2013,11:31) Quote (didymos @ Feb. 02 2013,02:51) LOL. That muslim dude that popped up recently is proselytizing at the UDites by enlightening them to the fact that Christianity is actually based on the heretical lies of one Mr. Paul ( n�e Saul) of Tarsus. On the whole, this has not been very well received. Still, KF and Batshit seem to be making the most of this opportunity to preach it like it is. Oh, and Muslim Dude has decided it was also a fantastic time to inform everyone there that 9/11 was an inside job. �And additionally, the work of the Jews. Money quote: � Quote 9/11 and 7/7 to name but a few are clearcut inside jobs so come to terms with it and get over it! Can't decide if Poe or not. �In any case, I expect there will be an involuntary departure from the Big Tent in due course. I don't think that is a Poe. It has YouTube posts going back years under that name. Nope-UD has attracted yet another genuine crackpot. Almost time to pull the string....

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,14:02    They say the Christian church represents the victory of Paul over James, and Protestantism represents the victory of Paul over Jesus. I forget who "they" is. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,15:05    Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 02 2013,14:02) They say the Christian church represents the victory of Paul over James, and Protestantism represents the victory of Paul over Jesus. I forget who "they" is. And both represent the victory of Paul over reality.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2013,16:14    Nagle has been yanking my chain for almost four decades now. �He's most well known for his 1974 paper, What is it like to be a bat? �The gist of that paper is: 1: Bats have some kind of subjective mental life. 2: We (meaning every conscious organism on the planet except the one bat under discussion) have no access to this mental life. 3: We don't understand how the physical activities of the brain generate subjective mental life. 4: Therefore, magic. Actually, it's not quite that bad. �Nagle is an atheist or agnostic, I forget which, so he actually concludes: 4: Therefore, something we don't understand is happening. � His best guess is that the universe has something teleological going on that's responsible for thought although he has no idea what it does because we don't understand how consciousness works. Ironically, he inadvertently describes what this teleology is in his latest book: � � � Quote I am drawn to a fourth alternative natural teleology, or teleological bias ... ... teleology would have to be restrictive in what it makes likely, but without depending on intentions or motives. �This would probably have to involve some conception of an increase in value through the expanded possibilities provided by the higher forms of organization toward which nature tends: not just any outcome could qualify as a telos. �That would make value an explanatory end, but not one that is realized through the purposes or intentions of an agent. "Mind and cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False" �Kindle location 1165-1171 Nagle doesn't seem to realize that he is describing Darwinian evolution "guided" by natural selection. �The "value" is successful reproduction and when a mutation makes an individual better at reproducing than his ancestors, natural selection restricts only these favored individuals to tend to increase with time and eventually the whole population embodies this "value" of more successful reproduction. �(And if the mutation decreases chances of successfully reproducing, it and the unlucky individual who possess it are restricted to decreasing.) And all this is done without "...the purposes or intentions of an agent." Dr. Nagle doesn't believe that a whole string of such valued mutations could ever arise naturally, so he attributes their appearance to magic/some sort of vague undefined teleology. Anyone who has a sock they'd like to waste can post a reply to Dr. Torley explaining this. �It won't succeed. �Like the rest of the UD crew, Torley's misunderstanding of how the world works is of great comfort to him and he won't give it up easily. Edited to fix mistypings because you can't copy and paste from a Kindle. Edited by CeilingCat on Feb. 02 2013,16:20

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2013,08:51    Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 02 2013,23:05) Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 02 2013,14:02) They say the Christian church represents the victory of Paul over James, and Protestantism represents the victory of Paul over Jesus. I forget who "they" is. And both represent the victory of Paul over reality. I blame Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2013,18:25    Quote Removed for offensive language. Regarding the sins of Western civilisation, you � and the onlooker � may find Bernard Lewis� remark commented on here helpful once you have calmed down. And no, your behaviour in public gives me no reason to try to spend time on a personal email exchange. if you had been serious about a civil exchange, you could easily have commented in the previous thread, or even created a blog. Derailing is simply not acceptable. And, I think the astute onlooker will be able to see how I have �faced the truth� about Western Civilisation, which, despite its many flaws is well worth defending. And I say that as a descendant of slaves, one who understands the role the gospel played in the liberation of my ancestors. KF Evidence-free bigotry not welcome at UD, unless it's against atheists and scientists. � Not that the Muslim IDiot wasn't as bad as KF says, of course, it's just clear that it's 'do as we say, not as we do,' when their own toes are uncomfortably pressed. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2013,16:54    Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 03 2013,08:51) Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 02 2013,23:05)   Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 02 2013,14:02) They say the Christian church represents the victory of Paul over James, and Protestantism represents the victory of Paul over Jesus. I forget who "they" is. And both represent the victory of Paul over reality. I blame Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. Ishmael? - Which one? ps: �can't we blame GEM of ICKY instead? Edited by J-Dog on Feb. 04 2013,16:55 -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 05 2013,06:07    Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 04 2013,16:54) Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 03 2013,08:51)   Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 02 2013,23:05) � Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 02 2013,14:02) They say the Christian church represents the victory of Paul over James, and Protestantism represents the victory of Paul over Jesus. I forget who "they" is. And both represent the victory of Paul over reality. I blame Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. Ishmael? - Which one? ps: �can't we blame GEM of ICKY instead? Whichever one, he never called me. -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 05 2013,19:35    Quote Cornelius Hunter: You probably never wondered how plants know which direction to grow. Well, Darwin did. Then experimentally demonstrated blue light�induced phototropic response. Quote Phototropism: Bending towards Enlightenment: Charles Darwin (1809�1882) further explored the inductive nature and mechanistic connection between phototropism and gravitropism. He proposed that the back and forth circumnutation associated with plant growth could be directed by a stimulus such as light or gravity (Darwin, 1880). Although Darwin's circumnutation theory of tropism served to propose a common mechanism underlying gravitropism and phototropism, the most significant discovery from his studies of plant movements was his demonstration that the site of photoperception at the shoot tip and the location of curvature are separable. From his observations, Darwin was able to propose that a transmissible substance produced in the tip is responsible for inducing curvature in lower regions of the plant (Darwin, 1880). This insightful discovery eventually lead to the discovery of the first plant hormone, auxin. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2013,11:53    William J. Murray brings the stupid Quote Q3: Why isn�t the first question an evolutionary materialist asks in a debate something like:�How many offspring are you responsible for?�as a means of determining if whatever their opponent believes is something they should consider believing?

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2013,11:59    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,11:53) William J. Murray brings the stupid   Quote Q3: Why isn�t the first question an evolutionary materialist asks in a debate something like:�How many offspring are you responsible for?�as a means of determining if whatever their opponent believes is something they should consider believing? Every bit as good as asking, how many Japanese (Germans, Jews, Maori, whatever) have you killed? Because surely "Darwinism" is a religion to be followed. I just content myself with causing species extinctions in order to demonstrate my devotion to Darwin. �We'll see what the future brings. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2013,13:17    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,11:53) William J. Murray brings the stupid Actually, I kind of like this question:   Quote Q2: �If we hold that �success of progeny� is the only significant measure of the success of evolution in any particular species unit, and thoughts and beliefs are evolution-generated features, why argue about whether or not any belief or thought is �true�, when what matters is only if the biological entity with those beliefs produces more successful progeny than those with different beliefs? There's nothing in principle wrong with this perspective, except that evolution focuses more on groups of a species members and all their offspring, rather than a single individual's offspring. Of course, your question presumes that there would be no correlation between "true" beliefs and thoughts and the success of offspring, which actually has been studied and found to be quite strong actually. The problem, William, is that you appear to be completely unaware of how long it takes for �erroneous thoughts and beliefs to get weeded out of the human population and you seem to imply that it isn't actually occurring. You might want to take a look at the history of given beliefs and chart how long they lasted and whether they are still around. You might be surprised to find out that humans have been shedding beliefs and relying more and more on evidence-based knowledge over the course of our history and we are, by and large, becoming more secular over time. ETA: Oh and William - your EQ is actually 1 or maybe two (if you have some really unique allele or more). The reason? Unless all of your children and their children are only having offspring from sex with each other and are never leaving your side, your particular set of genes and nurturing that have lead to you particular delusions are going to be diluted by your offspring's spouse's genes and outside influences. And their offspring's genetic disposition to fallacious thinking will also be diluted and so on. After about four or so generations, your particular brand of faulty thinking will all but be a lost characteristic. Edited by Robin on Feb. 11 2013,13:28 -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. �Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2013,13:35    Quote WJM: This reveals an obvious categorical disconnect that many � if not most � atheistic, darwinistic materialists don�t understand about their own position. Why are they arguing? That's easy William - because evolutionary theory doesn't actually reflect the strawman of your "atheistic, darwinistic materialism". The fact is, while there is some genetic predisposition to certain thought patterns and beliefs, those thought patterns and beliefs are still modified by outside influences (such as education, social conformity, cultural exposure, general information, societal norms, fads, etc.). So, arguing with idiots like you to poke holes in your claims helps reduce the number of people who might fall for your erroneous thinking and beliefs. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. �Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2013,14:07    Quote There's nothing in principle wrong with this perspective If applied to memes, one would expect the growth of populations of empiricists to outpace the populations of poofists. Edited by midwifetoad on Feb. 11 2013,14:08 -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2013,11:21    Dembski's "proof" of God never even reached the ersatz "proofiness" that I expected of that dull nerd, with him just droning on while assuming the truth of his "search" methods. To put it shortly and really quite adequately, all ID "methods of design detection" are much worse than science's causal means of determining actual human designs, and succeed at doing only one thing--smearing out the glaring differences between designed objects and life in the worst abuse of reductionism yet known. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

REC Posts: 638 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2013,22:32    Gould: if it were possible to �replay the tape� of evolution, the outcome would almost certainly be very different, both in detail and in general. Contingency. ID: The universal genetic code is only one of many options. Arbitrary......therefore, designed? Can anyone explain the latter? Why are they patting themselves on the back for imagining a different equally functional genetic code could exist? Our design is arbitrary, therefore God? Isn't that the opposite of ID?

Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2013,06:45    Quote (REC @ Feb. 14 2013,04:32) Gould: if it were possible to �replay the tape� of evolution, the outcome would almost certainly be very different, both in detail and in general. Contingency. ID: The universal genetic code is only one of many options. Arbitrary......therefore, designed? Can anyone explain the latter? Why are they patting themselves on the back for imagining a different equally functional genetic code could exist? Our design is arbitrary, therefore God? Isn't that the opposite of ID? Short version: if it does not arise out of 'chemical necessity' or some such bunk, then it can't be the result of 'Natural Processes'. 'Cos Accidents Never Happen. Long version: see any thread started by or mentioning Upright Biped. They have split their chips though - some apparent optimality in the code = Good Design. Possible Other Codes /= 'Nature Operating Freely'. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2013,08:54    Quote To put it shortly and really quite adequately, all ID "methods of design detection" are much worse than science's causal means of determining actual human designs, and succeed at doing only one thing--smearing out the glaring differences between designed objects and life in the worst abuse of reductionism yet known. Perfect, but too long for use as a sig... -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2013,00:45    Is there enough space in the ID universum for another career or are the Discoveroids just promoting the next victim to be EXPELLED? Publishing another journal may be a good start. EN&V presented the the editor and reported that Max Andrews follows some good flagellant tradition though figuratively only (I wonder if he planned to make it into Carl Zimmer's Science Tattoo Emporium or is he in there already and planning to be EXPELLED?). He joined �Discovery Institute�s Summer Seminar on Intelligent Design in 2010. It was actually the social science course. Without Max we would know even less about this course. I especially like this topic: �   Quote The role of genius, beauty, and the aesthetics in design . However, to make a carrer Max followed other topics of which he learned there:   Quote [...] 11. Natural theology in cosmology [...] 12. The multiverse [...] He follows Guillermo Gonzales and is now working on the � � Quote fine-tuning argument from cosmology and physics in multiverse scenarios. I guess this will boil down to something like "even if there are many universes their is only one Priviledged PlanetTM pointing to designTM and the Christian GodTM". -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

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