Antievolution.org :: Antievolution.org Discussion Board The Critic's Resource on Antievolution

Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Science Break

Pages: (59) < ... 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 21 ... >

Thought Provoker Posts: 530 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2009,11:15    Thanks for having this thread Lou. At the risk of appearing lost in hero worship... I have noticed Penrose has been having some interesting ideas lately on the origins of the Big Bang. Here is a video of a recent lecture... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OutKE3tyG94 As I understand it, the short version is that because of the discovery of Hawking Radiation the presumption is that near the end of the universe there will be nothing left but evaporating Black Holes.  And once the last of the Black Holes totally evaporate all that will be left is photons traveling along the null geodesics which literally means the end of time. Again, if I am understanding correctly, Penrose is suggesting this null-time state matches the Big Bang state.  Therefore, another Big Bang occurs and another universe is started. Penrose is suggesting that this idea might be supportable by analysing the Big Bang echo for ripples corresponding to point sources of photons.  Similar to ripples in a pond caused by raindrops. I welcome the opinions of others (especially Oleg).

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2009,14:43    Well, I can see how it means the end of clocks by which to  measure time, but the end of time? And will it also mean the end of space? There will still be distance between photons which didn't exist in the first big bang, won't there?  Won't there? What will become of dark matter and it's effect on the dimensions of space? eta correct italic tags. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Thought Provoker Posts: 530 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2009,15:58    Hi Fnxtr, I expect Oleg to jump on me with both feet any time now (I say that with all due respect). Therefore, I will try not to make too much a fool out of myself. Sir Roger Penrose wroteThe Road to Reality: A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe.  It is around 1000 pages long. In it, Penrose walks the reader through thinking about the geometry of the universe and Quantum Mechanics as he, a mathematician, looks at it. About half way through the book, he gets to Minkowskian geometry.  This is the space-time concept we learned in school. Most people think of the universe similar to a movie but in 3D.  Each 3D frame being a slice in time as time marches on. This concept does not match observations.  Minkowskian geometry has time as a fourth dimension and it mathematically explains things like the Twin Paradox (Special Relativity). But is this reality or just a mathematical trick? Even Oleg has indicated Minkowskian geometry has become so accepted that it is much more than just math. At this point in his book, Penrose starts the process of combining General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics into a single reality.  The result, Twistor space. In Twistor Space, null geodesics are single points. To me, this has explanatory power for Quantum Experiments where photons seem to interact with each other even when separated in space and time.  They are the same point in Twistor Space. By this view, if all that’s left in the universe is photons then the universe has no volume in Twistor Space. But is Twistor Space just a mathematical trick or is it real? Twistor Space is providing explanatory power to modern string theory.  I suspect it is also helping Penrose picture how the Big Bang may have worked. Oleg may have a different opinion.

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2009,01:34    Mars madness! A special issue of  Icarus is dedicated to MROs HiRISE camera, with full text available online.

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2009,01:48    Thanks, TP, I'll see if our library has it. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2009,10:28    http://www.newscientist.com/article....lf.html Quote FIRST it was planes, trains and automobiles that benefited from computer-aided design technology. Now, as synthetic biologists attempt to build artificial life forms, a CAD system has been developed to allow them to redesign the stuff of life much faster and more easily. ... -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2009,13:29    http://periodictable.com/ Cool, good for teachers? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2009,17:56    Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 31 2009,11:29) http://periodictable.com/ Cool, good for teachers? Tres Cool  But they left off Unobtanium, an element crucial to many perpetual motion machines. Happy New Decadium, AtBC! -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2009,18:18    Quote (sledgehammer @ Dec. 31 2009,18:56) Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 31 2009,11:29) http://periodictable.com/ Cool, good for teachers? Tres Cool  But they left off Unobtanium, an element crucial to many perpetual motion machines. Happy New Decadium, AtBC! Also Warp Drives, which I mentioned on Facebook just this morning. :) -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Badger3k Posts: 861 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2009,18:58    Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 31 2009,18:18) Quote (sledgehammer @ Dec. 31 2009,18:56) Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 31 2009,11:29) http://periodictable.com/ Cool, good for teachers? Tres Cool  But they left off Unobtanium, an element crucial to many perpetual motion machines. Happy New Decadium, AtBC! Also Warp Drives, which I mentioned on Facebook just this morning. :) Floating mountains too, from what I hear. -------------- "Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2009,19:01    I cracked the firewall at Discovery and found this: -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2009,19:58    Quote (Badger3k @ Dec. 31 2009,16:58) Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 31 2009,18:18) Quote (sledgehammer @ Dec. 31 2009,18:56)   Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 31 2009,11:29) http://periodictable.com/ Cool, good for teachers? Tres Cool  But they left off Unobtanium, an element crucial to many perpetual motion machines. Happy New Decadium, AtBC! Also Warp Drives, which I mentioned on Facebook just this morning. :) Floating mountains too, from what I hear. You're thinking of upsidaisium. Ve must get sqvirrel! -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2010,04:37    Quote To me, this has explanatory power for Quantum Experiments where photons seem to interact with each other even when separated in space and time.  They are the same point in Twistor Space. If mathematics is required in order to (really) understand the universe, I haven't got a chance. But I am interested anyway. And since Laughlin's "A Different Universe" is quite an entertaining read, you have at least made me pick it up once again. I know entanglement is mentioned. For the rest of you, have phun. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2010,17:02    Quote If mathematics is required in order to (really) understand the universe, Well, the math is needed to compute predictions from the theory. Some of the ideas can be loosely described without making specific predictions. Henry

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2010,08:59    Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 01 2010,17:02) Quote If mathematics is required in order to (really) understand the universe, Well, the math is needed to compute predictions from the theory. Some of the ideas can be loosely described without making specific predictions. Henry Guess I can live with that. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2010,20:49    Prion evolution: 'Lifeless' prion proteins are 'capable of evolution' "Scientists have shown for the first time that "lifeless" prion proteins, devoid of all genetic material, can evolve just like higher forms of life." So prions replicate by inducing configuration changes in "normal" proteins?  (IANOB) Fascinating. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2010,09:09    http://discovermagazine.com/2009....than-us One for SassanFrancis. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2010,09:10    Quote (sledgehammer @ Jan. 02 2010,20:49) Prion evolution: 'Lifeless' prion proteins are 'capable of evolution' "Scientists have shown for the first time that "lifeless" prion proteins, devoid of all genetic material, can evolve just like higher forms of life." So prions replicate by inducing configuration changes in "normal" proteins?  (IANOB) Fascinating. Quote "This means that this pattern of Darwinian evolution appears to be universally active. Quotemine THAT, bitches. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2010,09:52    Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 04 2010,07:10)   Quote (sledgehammer @ Jan. 02 2010,20:49) Prion evolution: 'Lifeless' prion proteins are 'capable of evolution' "Scientists have shown for the first time that "lifeless" prion proteins, devoid of all genetic material, can evolve just like higher forms of life." So prions replicate by inducing configuration changes in "normal" proteins?  (IANOB) Fascinating.   Quote "This means that this pattern of Darwinian evolution appears to be universally active. Quotemine THAT, bitches. Yeah, yeah, but they're still just proteins. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2010,18:55    Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 04 2010,09:09) http://discovermagazine.com/2009....than-us One for SassanFrancis. I've seen it. Hawks takes it down quite nicely here and here. This is much more interesting and via Bob O'H I have the article from Current Biology... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2010,22:24    Hubble shows stuff happening 13.2 billion years ago.  That takes us back to within half a billion years of the Big Bang. -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2010,13:38    Quote Researchers report in this week's issue of Nature that bornaviruses, a group of negative sense RNA viruses, integrated into the DNA of humans and other primates, rodents, and elephants millions of years ago. These snippets represent a source of additional mutation in the mammal genomes they inhabit and a potential source of genomic innovation, the authors suggest. Is it too much to ask that there be a bornavirus 77? -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2010,15:18    Quote (ppb @ Jan. 05 2010,22:24) Hubble shows stuff happening 13.2 billion years ago.  That takes us back to within half a billion years of the Big Bang. by 13.2 you mean 0.0000006 -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2010,10:34    Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 06 2010,16:18) Quote (ppb @ Jan. 05 2010,22:24) Hubble shows stuff happening 13.2 billion years ago.  That takes us back to within half a billion years of the Big Bang. by 13.2 you mean 0.0000006 13.2 billion years or 6 thousand.  It's somewhere in that range. What difference does several orders of magnitude make among friends? -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2010,07:06    What came first in the origin of life? Quote ScienceDaily (Jan. 9, 2010) — A new study published in Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences rejects the theory that the origin of life stems from a system of self-catalytic molecules capable of experiencing Darwinian evolution without the need of RNA or DNA and their replication. I'd love to read the paper, if anyone has access. Quote Vera Vasasa, Eörs Szathmáry and Mauro Santosa. Lack of evolvability in self-sustaining autocatalytic networks: A constraint on the metabolism-first path to the origin of life. PNAS, January 4, 2010 DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0912628107 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

bfish Posts: 267 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2010,01:01    Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 09 2010,05:06) I'd love to read the paper, if anyone has access. PDF winging it's way to your gmail address.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2010,11:47    Quote (bfish @ Jan. 10 2010,02:01) Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 09 2010,05:06) I'd love to read the paper, if anyone has access. PDF winging it's way to your gmail address. Thou rocketh. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2010,14:17    Quote (fnxtr @ Dec. 28 2009,14:43) Well, I can see how it means the end of clocks by which to  measure time, but the end of time? And will it also mean the end of space? There will still be distance between photons which didn't exist in the first big bang, won't there?  Won't there? What will become of dark matter and it's effect on the dimensions of space? eta correct italic tags. Just a quest/ion: What is time apart from its measurement? Phenomena exist apart from memory and our ability to measure, but does time? Is time a phenomenon, like chemical interactions, or a way that we organize phenomena, like "species"? -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2010,16:32    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/327/5962/148 Quote Despite much debate in the United States ( 4), surprisingly little attention has been given to the growing scientific evidence of the negative impacts of MTM/VF. Our analyses of current peer-reviewed studies and of new water-quality data from WV streams revealed serious environmental impacts that mitigation practices cannot successfully address. Published studies also show a high potential for human health impacts. Quote U.S. rules have considered stream creation a valid form of mitigation while acknowledging the lack of science documenting its ef?cacy (30). Senior of? cials of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (ACOE) have testi? ed that they do not know of a successful stream creation project in conjunction with MTM/VF MTM= mountain top mining (mountaintop removal) VF=  valley fill) dumping of mine spoil in streams and watercourses money shot Quote Clearly, current attempts to regulate MTM/ VF practices are inadequate. Mining permits are being issued despite the preponderance of scienti?c evidence that impacts are pervasive and irreversible and that mitigation cannot compensate for losses. Considering environmental impacts of MTM/VF, in combination with evidence that the health of people living in surface-mining regions of the central Appalachians is compromised by mining activities, we conclude that MTM/VF permits should not be granted unless new methods can be subjected to rigorous peer review and shown to remedy these problems. Regulators should no longer ignore rigorous science. The United States should take leadership on these issues, particularly since surface mining in many developing countries is expected to grow extensively ( 32).(2007). ouch -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2010,17:17    Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 10 2010,12:17)   Quote (fnxtr @ Dec. 28 2009,14:43) Well, I can see how it means the end of clocks by which to  measure time, but the end of time? And will it also mean the end of space? There will still be distance between photons which didn't exist in the first big bang, won't there?  Won't there? What will become of dark matter and it's effect on the dimensions of space? eta correct italic tags. Just a quest/ion: ;) What is time apart from its measurement? Phenomena exist apart from memory and our ability to measure, but does time? Is time a phenomenon, like chemical interactions, or a way that we organize phenomena, like "species"? If the universe were massless, would it still have dimensions? Can there just be space, with nothing in it? -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Pages: (59) < ... 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 21 ... >

Track this topic	Email this topic	Print this topic

© 2002-2009 Antievolution.org Powered by Ikonboard 3.0.2a © 2001 Ikonboard