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  Topic: Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,05:56   

I usually prefer to discuss the scientific issues, but Uncommon Descent is becoming Uncommonly Silly.

After having banned most everybody who disagrees, GilDodgen is now triumphantly declaring, "Defending the indefensible is a difficult task that requires a great deal of passion."

Meanwhile, DaveScot fights strawmen.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1679

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,06:08   

It's interesting to watch how the rational posters who manage to fly under the radar on UD do so by using the same faux niceness all the so called Xtians over there pat each other on the back for.

The hard core idiots can't pick they are being spammed until it's too late then the old knee jerks and as a wise man once said "time wounds all heals"

A nice little bit of culture jamming.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,07:36   

Remember all that really dumb stuff Gil said? Now he says he was just kidding.

Quote
53. GilDodgen  // Oct 1st 2006 at 8:08 pm

In my original post about mutating the CPU instruction set, the OS, etc., I was being somewhat sarcastic. Obviously, this would be silly, and I wouldn’t expect anyone to take such an experiment seriously. My point was that if mutations are genuinely random, we should expect that in a biological system (e.g., a cell) they would interfere with or modify all aspects of a cell’s basic functioning, which would affect the ability of the cell to survive and reproduce. If random mutations killed off a significantly large percentage of cells or made them sterile before they had a chance to reproduce, pass on their genetic information, and for natural selection to work its magic, the rest of the simulation would be rendered invalid.

My point was just that simple, but apparently I didn’t make it clear.

My point was also not that genetic algorithms and evolutionary computing are not useful and powerful tools in a wide variety of problem-solving domains.

I should probably also have been more explicit about the bottom line of my contention: Ridiculously exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims have been made for the real-world relevance of computer simulations of biological evolution. For example, Avida was touted in a premier international science journal as having refuted Michael Behe’s irreducible-complexity challenge to random mutation and natural selection as a viable mechanism to explain away obvious difficulties.

Avida did nothing of the sort, but the claims made on its behalf were soaked up uncritically.

Comment by GilDodgen — October 1, 2006 @ 8:08 pm

   
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,07:37   

This post belongs on the DaveScot's Greatest Hits album:
Quote
Actually Tom, they’re mosfets if you want to get techincal about it, and there are two mosfets in the most basic logic gate (inverter). A NAND gate requires four mosfets. Even assistant professors of computer science at Texas Tech should know that all other logic gates can be constructed from NAND gates.

What assistant computer science professors at Texas Tech probably don’t know is that microprocessor simulations, prior to creating the first mask, absolutely have to model at the gate level because of something called propagation delay which can result in something called race conditions. I was whipping out the fuse programming for programmable logic arrays while you were still in high school and I didn’t have the benefit of simulators way back then. Prop delays had to be calculated by hand to eliminate race conditions just as they had to be when designing with discrete TTL logic which I did for many years before logic arrays were invented. In 1991 I implimented the core logic for an 80486 motherboard in 19 discrete PALs with nothing but PALASM and hardware design genius.

Google it in all the spare time you have now that you’ve been booted off Uncommon Descent for your nasty habit of getting personal.

Condescension, ignorance, and braggadocio all rolled up in a few short paragraphs, topped off by a sociopathic and hypocritical booting of one of the few knowledgeable participants at UD.

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"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,07:43   

Followed immediately by someone making the point that the "T" in "MOSFET" stands for "transistor", along with a couple other takedowns of Dave.

Tom English, R.I.P.  May we all drink to his memory.

  
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,07:46   

Scott has a serious reading comprehension problem.  After Karl specifically said that Avida does not prove biological evolution, and Tom reiterated Karl's statement, Scott says:
 
Quote
Now, your challenge is to demonstrate how Avida proves that blind, comatose, natural mechanisms can build highly complex, specified, cellular machinery which requires all of it’s components simultaneously to function.
(Emphasis in original.)

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"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,07:56   

it's amazing how they demand "proof" of everything except their own outlandish claims!

All mouth, no trousers.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,08:08   

DaveScot:  
Quote
Those of who know things don’t always scale like that need better proof of concept than “Poof! Chance did it.”

An IDer coopting the "Poof" criticism is the kind of thing that makes irony meters scream for mercy.

This thread is rivalling the old thermodynamics thread for sheer UD embarrassment value.  I hope that BUUD is still archiving.

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"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,08:24   

Quote (2ndclass @ Oct. 03 2006,12:37)
This post belongs on the DaveScot's Greatest Hits album:
Quote
Actually Tom, they’re mosfets if you want to get techincal about it, and there are two mosfets in the most basic logic gate (inverter). A NAND gate requires four mosfets. Even assistant professors of computer science at Texas Tech should know that all other logic gates can be constructed from NAND gates.

What assistant computer science professors at Texas Tech probably don’t know is that microprocessor simulations, prior to creating the first mask, absolutely have to model at the gate level because of something called propagation delay which can result in something called race conditions. I was whipping out the fuse programming for programmable logic arrays while you were still in high school and I didn’t have the benefit of simulators way back then. Prop delays had to be calculated by hand to eliminate race conditions just as they had to be when designing with discrete TTL logic which I did for many years before logic arrays were invented. In 1991 I implimented the core logic for an 80486 motherboard in 19 discrete PALs with nothing but PALASM and hardware design genius.

Google it in all the spare time you have now that you’ve been booted off Uncommon Descent for your nasty habit of getting personal.

Condescension, ignorance, and braggadocio all rolled up in a few short paragraphs, topped off by a sociopathic and hypocritical booting of one of the few knowledgeable participants at UD.

Davetard's learning ended in 1994.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,08:33   

Quote

Google it in all the spare time you have now that you’ve been booted off Uncommon Descent for your nasty habit of getting personal.


Your?

The sentence makes far better sense if you swap in "because of my" for the "for your".

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,08:42   

By the way, Wes, are you still not archiving select passages of UD?  And if not, is there hope of doing so again?

It would be nice if they could not so easily pour their more egregious errors down the memory hole, though I recognize that what's left is pretty wretched as well.

Glen D

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,08:43   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 03 2006,10:56)
I usually prefer to discuss the scientific issues, but Uncommon Descent is becoming Uncommonly Silly.

Is becoming?  Oh, that point is long since passed.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,08:54   

Quote (GCT @ Oct. 03 2006,14:43)
Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 03 2006,10:56)
I usually prefer to discuss the scientific issues, but Uncommon Descent is becoming Uncommonly Silly.

Is becoming?  Oh, that point is long since passed.

Like PZ once said,

"Reading this new ID blog is like going to a circus where they've fired all the acrobats and animal trainers and it's clowns, clowns, clowns all the time."

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,09:24   

Quote (dhogaza @ Oct. 03 2006,12:43)
Followed immediately by someone making the point that the "T" in "MOSFET" stands for "transistor", along with a couple other takedowns of Dave.

Tom English, R.I.P.  May we all drink to his memory.

Any way we can find out who he was and invite him here? A lot of our best posters start out as refugees from UD...

Quote
"Reading this new ID blog is like going to a circus where they've fired all the acrobats and animal trainers and it's clowns, clowns, clowns all the time."


Or like H.L. Mencken said, like a variety show performed by the residents of a home for retarded children.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,09:29   

Tom English lives here.

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,09:36   

SteveS said:
.
Quote
Like PZ once said,

"Reading this new ID blog is like going to a circus where they've fired all the acrobats and animal trainers and it's clowns, clowns, clowns all the time."


Hey don't besmirch the fine art of clowning, no what is left at UD is the guys that they don't let in the tent during showtime, the sh*t shovelers and the carney's with one leg shorter than the other, or a hump.

The spot lights are off and the sad motley crew of broom pushers get to fight over the elephant turds, but hey they wouldn't have it any other way, "Leave show business---no way" one of them was heard to say.

Bill 'Mr Big Top' Deeeee-em-ski rounds them up and locks them in the bus whenever he has to put on a show.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,09:51   

Quote (GCT @ Oct. 03 2006,13:43)
Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 03 2006,10:56)
I usually prefer to discuss the scientific issues, but Uncommon Descent is becoming Uncommonly Silly.

Is becoming?  Oh, that point is long since passed.

Um, but, er, ah, ok.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Thank Dog



Posts: 31
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,10:23   

Quote
Condescension, ignorance, and braggadocio all rolled up in a few short paragraphs, topped off by a sociopathic and hypocritical booting of one of the few knowledgeable participants at UD.

I see less evidence of sociopathy than of compensation. It is common for a di*kless wonder to spend a lifetime making himself into a big di*k.

You left out unresponsiveness. After Tom English said that no one simulates microprocessors at the transistor level, Daveless Wonder dumped into the thread an abstract on verfication of microprocessors at the gate level. Tom pointed out that verification is not simulation and that gates are not transistors. What is hilarious is that Dave then fell back on precisely the wounded-ego "logic" that Gil did in the opening blog. "Tom English pointed out that I said something stupid. But I can't say stupid things, because I am very intelligent and highly accomplished."

  
Thank Dog



Posts: 31
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,11:07   

Quote
Tom English lives here.

Yeah. Daveless Wonder wrote:
   
Quote
Even assistant professors of computer science at Texas Tech should know...

But:
Code Sample
The Tom English Project   Researcher            2003-present
Jackson State University   Associate Professor 2001-2003
The Tom English Project   Researcher            1998-2001
Texas Tech University       Assistant Professor 1990-1998

Is Daveless clueless, or was he trying to make his teeny look bigger by diminishing a detractor?

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,12:11   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 03 2006,17:56)
After having banned most everybody who disagrees, GilDodgen is now triumphantly declaring, "Defending the indefensible is a difficult task that requires a great deal of passion."

I didn't realise Gil banned anyone.  DS banned Tom English  and Scott is looking hard for an excuse to ban Karl Pfluger (and is currently insisting that he demonstrate that "Avida proves that blind, comatose, natural mechanisms can build highly complex, specified, cellular machinery which requires all of it’s components simultaneously to function" when what Karl actually said was that  "Avida has shown that a Darwinian process is capable of producing irreducible complexity."

Gil has retreated to proclaiming that his sound drubbing at the hands of Tom and co. shows how much he has hurt them, and countered with an ID standard argument from personal incredulity (this time about bat evolution), and the guys are rallying around to help rebuild his ego.

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,16:15   

Quote (steve_h @ Oct. 03 2006,17:11)
 
Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 03 2006,17:56)
After having banned most everybody who disagrees, GilDodgen is now triumphantly declaring, "Defending the indefensible is a difficult task that requires a great deal of passion."

I didn't realise Gil banned anyone.


I understand that the intricacies and personalities of Uncommon Descent is of some interest to this forum. I might have been more precise. "After the moderators at Uncommon Descent banned almost everybody who disagrees, while cowing those who would object ..."

However, GilDodgen is an Uncommon Descent blogger, and it was his own thread. Having others do the dirty work and then remaining silent does not absolve him. The problem is endemic to the blog, and that includes all of those who represent the community.

Having a closed forum is more than acceptable, but inviting comment, while banning reasonable argument, then crowing how no one has an answer, is beyond the pale.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,16:26   

Thank-you, k.e., for defending clowns.  I don't want to speak for all clowns, but I think it safe to say we don't want to associate with DaveScot or any of the other IDiots.

Except, of course, when I see him in Austin next spring.  You do remember, Dave, right?  Don't be gone...it'd be really embarrassing to have it get out that you're running away from clowns.

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But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,18:00   

Quote (blipey @ Oct. 03 2006,21:26)
Except, of course, when I see him in Austin next spring.  You do remember, Dave, right?  Don't be gone...it'd be really embarrassing to have it get out that you're running away from clowns.

Blipey,

Be sure to bring a video camera with you.  There's likely to be a huge comedic payoff in a face-to-face meeting with Il Tardissimo.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,20:15   

From OverwhelminglyDense:

Quote
Design inference
Cameron's picture
Cameron

You are alone in your house when suddenly you are surrounded by creatures who announce that they are from another planet. You aren't sure that you are awake--this could be a dream, but it feels very real.

Next you are aboard a spaceship, flying through the solar system. The aliens tell you that they have checked in on earth life periodically since it first started. They tell you that one day they abducted a lifeform from earth and changed it. They then returned it to earth.

Your alien captors give you a chance to guess what it was they changed. If you guess wrong, you will be killed. If you guess correctly, you will be returned to earth.

They give you two options. They say that one was designed by them, the other resulted from the Darwinian mechanism:

a) they changed a bacteria by adding a flagellum

b) they changed a beak on a finch on a Gallapagos island, which Darwin later attributed to natural selection.

Which do you choose? Which do you think was more likely to have been designed, and which is more likely to have resulted from the Darwinian mechanism?

If one thing is more likely to have been designed than another thing, that is a design inference.


(beads of sweat appearing on brow)

...must...not...make Occam comments....so...hard....

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2006,20:20   

Church Lady Admits Cluelessness

She finds ...  NOTHING!

Dave: I know you're listening, so can you toddle off and explain to Ms O'Leary how to use colons please.

Bob

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2006,00:17   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Oct. 04 2006,01:20)
Church Lady Admits Cluelessness
...
Bob


Rather interesting as she calls Beckwith a "law prof" after Anonymous had already politely informed her otherwise, then she calls Anonymous a vulgar name even as she admits Beckwith is not a law professor.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2006,04:38   

We should start an official Banned at UD thread that would consist of, well, the thing that got someone banned from UD.  it could also server as a place for mourning that great loss.  It would be an entertaining way of documenting the wholesale banning that goes on over there.

Wouldn't that be a fun thread to read? :-) Nothing but commentary that got folks banned at UD.


Chris

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2006,05:44   

DaveScot:
 
Quote
I never said anyone modeled microprocessors at the transistor level. That’s a straw man. Tom English put those words in my mouth. He said modeling evolution at the protein level is like modeling processors at the transistor level. I replied with an article talking about modeling processors at the gate level. I presumed Tom knew that gates are just a few transistors each and wouldn’t quibble. But of course to save your egos both of you did continue to quibble.

The funny thing is that even after his backpedaling, he's still wrong.  The difference between transistor-level and gate-level modelling is far more than a quibble.  Gate-level models deal with boolean logic, while transistor-level models deal with actual voltage levels.

 
Quote
You’re done here, Karl. I find your dishonesty offensive.

Dave is shocked! shocked! to find dishonesty at UD.  Well, I don't blame him for banning Karl.  After all, Karl claimed to have a certified IQ of 150+, when in fact Karl has never taken an IQ test.

Oh wait, that was someone else...

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"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2006,05:53   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Oct. 04 2006,10:38)
We should start an official Banned at UD thread that would consist of, well, the thing that got someone banned from UD.  it could also server as a place for mourning that great loss.  It would be an entertaining way of documenting the wholesale banning that goes on over there.

Wouldn't that be a fun thread to read? :-) Nothing but commentary that got folks banned at UD.


Chris

I often repost here, the moments when someone gets deleted. Watching people get banned is an integral part of the UD experience.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2006,06:08   

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 04 2006,10:53)

I often repost here, the moments when someone gets deleted. Watching people get banned is an integral part of the UD experience.

One might well argue that it is indeed the only authentic action that UD ever takes...

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
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