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Robert O'Brien Posts: 348 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,15:02    Quote (Lou FCD @ April 22 2008,14:59) Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,15:58) Quote (Lou FCD @ April 22 2008,14:56)   Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,15:53)   Quote (Richardthughes @ April 22 2008,14:49) There is a biblical tradition of God mandated genocide. In the Hebrew Scriptures!   Quote [1] And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. [2] And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. [3] And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. [4] And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. [5] And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. [6] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. [7] And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. [8] And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Revelation, chapter 6 I do not see a call to genocide in your citation. Can you see it better now? No. There is a distinct difference between saying "a lot of bad **** is going to go down" and the Israelites slaughtering the inhabitants of Jericho (for example). -------------- Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,15:08    Just for emphasis, the phrase "that they should kill one another" uses a word different from the usual one translated as "murder". It's more a word used for slaying an animal for sacrifice or butchering an animal for the table. So it's particularly nasty.  Not just "go out and have a war", but "slaughter each other like animals". Nice god you got there. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,15:10    Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,16:02) Quote (Lou FCD @ April 22 2008,14:59) Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,15:58)   Quote (Lou FCD @ April 22 2008,14:56)   Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,15:53)     Quote (Richardthughes @ April 22 2008,14:49) There is a biblical tradition of God mandated genocide. In the Hebrew Scriptures!     Quote [1] And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. [2] And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. [3] And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. [4] And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. [5] And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. [6] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. [7] And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. [8] And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Revelation, chapter 6 I do not see a call to genocide in your citation. Can you see it better now? No. There is a distinct difference between saying "a lot of bad **** is going to go down" and the Israelites slaughtering the inhabitants of Jericho (for example). No, it's a deliberate action of the rider to remove peace specifically so that men can slaughter each other.  It's not a general prediction of "man is bad" it's definitive cause and effect. Read for comprehension. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,15:12    Let's move this thread back on topic. This is neither the time nor the place for biblical exegesis. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,15:16    [quote=Robert O'Brien,April 22 2008,13:51]   Quote (Lou FCD @ April 22 2008,14:47)   That only signifies theism. I do not think Hitler was an atheist but neither do I think he was a Christian. Just what qualifies one as a 'Christian' anyway? Many fundamentalists will claim that Catholics aren't Christian either.  Catholics of course will disagree. No one knows exactly what went on in Hitler's mind and what he truly believed.  He consistently claimed to be doing God's (the Almighty Creator) work and upheld Christ as an Aryan (not a jew). It is of course irrelevent whether Hitler was a Christian or just cynically used Christianity to achieve his ends.  Neither reflects well on the German Christians who actually committed the atrocities and the Churches that promoted anti-semitism from the pulpit.   The church preached hatred against Jews from pre Augustine times     Quote "the Church admits and avows the Jewish people to be cursed, because after killing Christ they continue to till the ground of an earthly circumcision, an earthly Sabbath, an earthly passover, while the hidden strength or virtue of making known Christ, which this tilling contains, is not yielded to the Jews while they continue in impiety and unbelief, for it is revealed in the New Testament. While they will not turn to God, the veil which is on their minds in reading the Old Testament is not taken away... the Jewish people, like Cain, continue tilling the ground, in the carnal observance of the law, which does not yield to them its strength, because they do not perceive in it the grace of Christ" St. Augustine through to WWII   Quote In 1941, Bishop Ivan Saric of Sarajevo appropriates Jewish property for his own use. His diocesan newspaper declares that "Jewish greed increases. The Jews have led Europe and the world towards disaster, moral and economic disaster. Their appetite grows till only domination of the whole world will satisfy it." Bishop Aksamovic of Djakovic teaches that "today it is the sacred duty of every citizen to prove his Aryan origins." Meanwhile, Archbishop Aloys Stepinac of Zagreb preaches in a sermon that "it is forbidden to exterminate Gypsies and Jews because they are said to belong to an inferior race" It was only until the Second Vatican Council in 1965 that the Church publicly stated that jews should not be blamed for the death of Christ. Quote "True, authorities of the Jews and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be blamed upon all the Jews then living, without distinction, nor upon the Jews of today... The Jews should not be presented as repudiated or cursed by God... The Church decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone" It all seems a bit silly too in light of Christian theology.  If Jesus hadn't been crucified there would be no blood sacrifice and therefore no salvation -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,15:21    Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,12:53) Quote (Richardthughes @ April 22 2008,14:49) There is a biblical tradition of God mandated genocide. In the Hebrew Scriptures! Does anyone else see this as just a way of basically saying "No.  It was those bloodthirsty Jews"?  And, don't many Christians take the position that even though, maybe, God no longer mandates that sort of thing, at one time he did, and therefore it was to the good? -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Robert O'Brien Posts: 348 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,15:29    Quote (didymos @ April 22 2008,15:21) Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,12:53) Quote (Richardthughes @ April 22 2008,14:49) There is a biblical tradition of God mandated genocide. In the Hebrew Scriptures! Does anyone else see this as just a way of basically saying "No.  It was those bloodthirsty Jews"?  And, don't many Christians take the position that even though, maybe, God no longer mandates that sort of thing, at one time he did, and therefore it was to the good? If you want to discuss this in another thread I am willing. -------------- Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

themadlolscientist Posts: 19 Joined: April 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,17:25    Quote He's a pundit? Quote [H]e needed to earn more than his $168,000 White House salary. "I ran out of money," said Snow.... o noes! his harblz iz showin! (Arden, you tewtally RAWK!) (BTW, Revelation almost didn't make it into the Bible. I can't help thinking the world would have been much better off if it hadn't.)

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,18:13    Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,15:29) Quote (didymos @ April 22 2008,15:21) Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,12:53)   Quote (Richardthughes @ April 22 2008,14:49) There is a biblical tradition of God mandated genocide. In the Hebrew Scriptures! Does anyone else see this as just a way of basically saying "No.  It was those bloodthirsty Jews"?  And, don't many Christians take the position that even though, maybe, God no longer mandates that sort of thing, at one time he did, and therefore it was to the good? If you want to discuss this in another thread I am willing. This other thread... it will be like Seinfeld.  A thread about .... nothing!   All the concepts and arguments about the Little Man That Wasn't There.  Except that people get all worked up about their own LMTWT, vs the other guys LMTWT. A thread about nothing, really. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,18:44    Quote (J-Dog @ April 22 2008,19:13) This other thread... it will be like Seinfeld.  A thread about .... nothing! This other thread is not happening, so we can move on now. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,19:18    Alrighty then.  Moving on.... -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,19:21    Quote (didymos @ April 22 2008,20:18) Alrighty then.  Moving on.... It's just not topical for this forum. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,20:30    Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair). -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,21:43    Quote (Lou FCD @ April 22 2008,17:21) Quote (didymos @ April 22 2008,20:18) Alrighty then.  Moving on.... It's just not topical for this forum. No, I know.  I just though it was amusing that everyone basically collectively agreed to that, and then all conversation ceased.  Not that there's anything wrong with that. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,21:57    Quote (didymos @ April 22 2008,22:43) Quote (Lou FCD @ April 22 2008,17:21) Quote (didymos @ April 22 2008,20:18) Alrighty then.  Moving on.... It's just not topical for this forum. No, I know.  I just though it was amusing that everyone basically collectively agreed to that, and then all conversation ceased.  Not that there's anything wrong with that. I thought maybe I'd killed every conversation on the board there... It really did just suddenly get silent after that. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

themadlolscientist Posts: 19 Joined: April 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,22:31    Quote He's a pundit? Quote [H]e needed to earn more than his $168,000 White House salary. "I ran out of money," said Snow.... o noes! his harblz iz showin! (Arden, you tewtally RAWK!) (BTW, Revelation almost didn't make it into the Bible. I can't help thinking the world would have been much better off if it hadn't.)

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,22:55    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,20:30) Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair). Did you guys already know about this interview?  You have to watch it if you haven't.  Ben says they have other projects planned after this one and he says all sorts of other crazy shit.   He's a lunatic who is out of touch with what comes out of his mouth.  Watch the interview! -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Quidam Posts: 229 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,23:33    Wow.  just watched it.  Ben gives the lie to himself so many times.   He assures us that Darwin - if he were alive today wold say that we should follow the evidence. Er we have Ben, what we haven't done is follow scrtipture.  And we know that we don't need God to explain the motions of planets (as Ben claims we do).   Towards the end he forgets he's only supposed to be anti-darwinist and unleashes his  anti-science hatred "the last time a scientist told my people what to do, it was to go to a gas chamber" -------------- The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,23:38    Quote He's a lunatic who is out of touch with what comes out of his mouth.  Watch the interview! How the planets stay in their orbits???  You can't investigate that?  Or does he mean that angels push them around? He's qualified to comment on biology because he's an economist and was on the The Wonder Years for 3 years? The religion of Darwinism???  Can they please some up with something new?  At least a little effort? "Where science can't touch God"???!!!>!!11!1!!  Do they really want that to happen?  Really? Darwin was wrong because he thought a cell was tomato soup? And Evolution = OoL, can I slap someone? Blabbering from incredulity. Aliens can't have designed man because it isn't Biblical? Yet ID isn't religion because Aliens could have designed man?  Jesus! Ftk, can you actually hear any of this?  Do you listen?  Can you explain? Since you commented on your children and Aliens, could you comment on the bolded part above? Also, Ftk, Ben Stein said this movie wasn't very serious or heavy handed.  You thought it was.  What do you think HE was aiming for? -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,01:10    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,22:55) Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,20:30) Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair). Did you guys already know about this interview?  You have to watch it if you haven't.  Ben says they have other projects planned after this one and he says all sorts of other crazy shit.   He's a lunatic who is out of touch with what comes out of his mouth.  Watch the interview! I think I see their problem.  Somebody stuck an LCD TV screen in front of their lens.  And they're looking at the back end of it.

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,01:11    Anyone have any good suggestions for dealing with Expelled battle fatigue?  ??? -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,01:55    I don't know, but does this help? Quote PannenbergOmega 04/22/2008 6:38 pm Very cool. “Compass into a world bustling with riches yet to be discovered.” Ben Stein said something about your research potentially curing Cancer. I may be mistaken, but if you do, that would make one heck of a story. Expelled 2: How We Cured Cancer. I just don't even know what to say to that. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,02:00    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,22:55) Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,20:30) Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair). Did you guys already know about this interview?  You have to watch it if you haven't.  Ben says they have other projects planned after this one and he says all sorts of other crazy shit.   He's a lunatic who is out of touch with what comes out of his mouth.  Watch the interview! I can kinda see why he makes those claims. Don't get me wrong here, he is wrong but I can (maybe) understand why he is making his claims. Many people want absolute answers to things they consider important. They may have an affliction that requires absolute truths. I did.

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,02:27    Quote (didymos @ April 23 2008,01:55) I don't know, but does this help? Quote PannenbergOmega 04/22/2008 6:38 pm Very cool. “Compass into a world bustling with riches yet to be discovered.” Ben Stein said something about your research potentially curing Cancer. I may be mistaken, but if you do, that would make one heck of a story. Expelled 2: How We Cured Cancer. I just don't even know what to say to that. Ask "Wool, cotton or artificial fibres?"? -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,03:50    Quote (Robert O'Brien @ April 22 2008,14:53)   Quote (Richardthughes @ April 22 2008,14:49) There is a biblical tradition of God mandated genocide. In the Hebrew Scriptures! Christians usually refer to the "Hebrew Scriptures" as the "Old Testament".  Are you denying Scripture?  On second thought, don't answer that.  Nobody cares.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,03:52    Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,20:30) Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair). Did anybody else's Gaydar go off as soon as Paul Crouch Jr. started talking?  Mark my words, we're going to hear about this boy someday.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,09:33    I'm calling Sal a liar Quote Walt Ruloff mentioned that in filming Expelled he observed there is active suppression of the exploration of RNA synthesis at places like the NIH. These discoveries would overturn much of neo-Darwinism but these medical advances can’t be funded because they violate the party line. Link Sal, we know you would say anything to advance your cause, but do you have the slightest bit of evidence to back this up? To me it seems that "expelled" could have focussed on this issue, if true, and had a blockbuster on their hands about how "darwinists" were holding up the cure for cancer. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,09:38    Quote (CeilingCat @ April 23 2008,03:52) Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,20:30) Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair). Did anybody else's Gaydar go off as soon as Paul Crouch Jr. started talking?  Mark my words, we're going to hear about this boy someday. Well, the apple wouldn't have fallen far from the alleged tree. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,09:48    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ April 23 2008,10:33) I'm calling Sal a liar I'm calling the sky blue. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

charlie d Posts: 56 Joined: Oct. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,10:05    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ April 23 2008,09:33) I'm calling Sal a liar     Quote Walt Ruloff mentioned that in filming Expelled he observed there is active suppression of the exploration of RNA synthesis at places like the NIH. These discoveries would overturn much of neo-Darwinism but these medical advances can’t be funded because they violate the party line. Link Sal, we know you would say anything to advance your cause, but do you have the slightest bit of evidence to back this up? To me it seems that "expelled" could have focussed on this issue, if true, and had a blockbuster on their hands about how "darwinists" were holding up the cure for cancer. LOL, sure.  There has been no hype at all in the professional literature about RNA-mediated gene regulation. And what better and more cunning way for the NIH to suppress the study of the role of miRNAs in cancer than funding grants with titles like: "Small RNA targeted gene activation for the treatment of prostate cancer" "Tumor targeted RNAi by novel nanovectors for molecular therapy of prostate cancer" "PPAR-gamma regulation of micro RNA metabolism in colon cancer" "Analysis of BRCA1/non-coding RNA interactions" "Typing the Transcriptome in Cancer Using Splicing Array" "RNA interference" (NCI-funded) And these are just the most obviously relevant titles in the first 50 grants (of 1,150 total) retrieved by a search of the CRISP database of NIH-funded projects with the terms "Cancer AND RNA".  Outside of the cancer field, "RNAi" retrieves 671 grants, "miRNA" 130, "RNA interference" (phrase) 1318, and I could go on. The Darwinist orthodoxy cabal is diabolical that way.

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