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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 3

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Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2011,19:14    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,April 02 2011,18:30) Forman is probably sitting in the basement playing himself in checkers and feeling p-r-e-t-t-y s-m-u-g at that clever post.  Yes sirree Bob.  Yepper.  That really showed them, by heck!   Frill is trying to reach critical tard but is limited by his paltry imagination Frill is trying to reach critical tard but is limited by his carefully impoverished imagination FIFY, courtesy R Dawkins. -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 02 2011,19:37    I think GilDo just hit all the Dodgenator3000 options except 'C' in a single post. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,01:00    This must hurt: Amazon is already already clearance selling "The Nature of Nature   Quote 2 April 2011 The Nature of Nature — Get it at Amazon.com William Dembski Even though THE NATURE OF NATURE was printed close to two months ago, it seems that it’s only now finally out and widely available. If you haven’t bought it yet, let me suggest Amazon.com, which is selling it for $17.94, which is an incredible deal for a 7?x10? 1000-page book with, for most of us, no tax and no shipping charge (it costs over $10 to ship this monster priority mail). Obviously, not too many were willing to pay $29.00 despite all the month long trumpeting at UD. So again another "BUY MY BOOK":   Quote This is a must-have book if you are interested at all in the ID debate.   Quote Seven years in the making just show that WMAD has been either lazy or not really interested because at the end it's just a compilation.   Quote at 500,000 words, indeed quite an achievement taking into account that Drs. KF and BA77 didn't contribute to the opus.   Quote with three Nobel laureate contributors, did Crick, de Duve or Weinberg say anything positive about ID Quote this is the most thorough examination of naturalism to date. To date? Isn't this the status of 2004? ID-creationism didn't evolve much since then but the world kept turning and we have seen things like the Dover decision aka Waterloo since then. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Freddie Posts: 371 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,05:54    Quote (sparc @ April 03 2011,01:00) This must hurt: Amazon is already already clearance selling "The Nature of Nature     Quote 2 April 2011 The Nature of Nature — Get it at Amazon.com William Dembski Even though THE NATURE OF NATURE was printed close to two months ago, it seems that it’s only now finally out and widely available. If you haven’t bought it yet, let me suggest Amazon.com, which is selling it for $17.94, which is an incredible deal for a 7?x10? 1000-page book with, for most of us, no tax and no shipping charge (it costs over $10 to ship this monster priority mail). Obviously, not too many were willing to pay $29.00 despite all the month long trumpeting at UD. So again another "BUY MY BOOK":     Quote This is a must-have book if you are interested at all in the ID debate.     Quote Seven years in the making just show that WMAD has been either lazy or not really interested because at the end it's just a compilation.     Quote at 500,000 words, indeed quite an achievement taking into account that Drs. KF and BA77 didn't contribute to the opus.     Quote with three Nobel laureate contributors, did Crick, de Duve or Weinberg say anything positive about ID   Quote this is the most thorough examination of naturalism to date. To date? Isn't this the status of 2004? ID-creationism didn't evolve much since then but the world kept turning and we have seen things like the Dover decision aka Waterloo since then. Interesting for a couple of reasons ... 1. There are posts in that thread from February. so it looks like this has just been bumped with a new date of April 2 on the thread to reflect its new status on Amazon. 2. Is he suggesting that purchases over the Internet in the US are not subject to sales tax for 'most of us'?  I haven't lived there for a few years and I know Internet buys were typically not reported by anyone then, but a few friends are telling me recently that this year the IRS is starting to look more closely at this ... maybe he should give Kent Hovind a call to check out the legal aspects. -------------- Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy. Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people. Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,06:21    Quote maybe he should give Kent Hovind a call to check out the legal aspects. Bwahahahahaha!!! ETA: Best 1000th post ever! Totally worth it! -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

Raevmo Posts: 235 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,08:17    Lewontin alarm! -------------- After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM. --GilDodgen

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,14:28    Well, all comments posted since 8PM last night are in moderation, in spite of the fact that a new thread challenging me to answer two questions has been put up since then, so it makes no sense that the comments haven't cleared yet. Only I can see them.

Mark Frank Posts: 46 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,15:45    Quote (lkeithlu @ April 03 2011,14:28) Well, all comments posted since 8PM last night are in moderation, in spite of the fact that a new thread challenging me to answer two questions has been put up since then, so it makes no sense that the comments haven't cleared yet. Only I can see them. I am not in moderation - I will point this out.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,16:02    Quote (Mark Frank @ April 03 2011,16:45) Quote (lkeithlu @ April 03 2011,14:28) Well, all comments posted since 8PM last night are in moderation, in spite of the fact that a new thread challenging me to answer two questions has been put up since then, so it makes no sense that the comments haven't cleared yet. Only I can see them. I am not in moderation - I will point this out. But will it last? Quote 2 markf 04/03/2011 2:49 pm You should be aware that for some reason KL has been put into moderation and his comments are not being released for viewing. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,18:22    Quote (didymos @ April 02 2011,19:37) I think GilDo just hit all the Dodgenator3000 options except 'C' in a single post.   Quote * Oh, by the way, I was once a Richard Dawkins clone. Once I began to discover the evidence and think logically, I asked myself, “How could you have been so stupid? How could you have bought such an obvious, ridiculous, destructive lie?” Juuuust a little question, Dodge - when did you "begin" to "think logically"? It would appear that this was after you swallowed not spat ID. Was that after you became an aerospace software designer or before? If after, WTF does your incessantly repeated aerospace software design have to do with anything, and why do you keep flogging that obvious, ridiculous, and self-destructive horse? (Do you see me walking around saying, despite my ALA rubber stamp, "As an information scientist, I..." or "Do you know that I am an information scientist?" or "My credentials as an information scientist entitle me..." Heck, no. Those guys would probably mistake it for information theory, anyway. "She thinks she's the equivalent of Dembski now, despite only having a Master's!" No, no. I have no ambition to measure down to that Pathetic height of Detail.) -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,18:31    Quote aerospace software designer That would mean old Gilly writes his stuff by a wing and a prayer.

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,18:39    I'm not sure what's going on. They have acknowledged that my posts are stuck, but nothing is happening. I'm not being obnoxious or profane, although I did post a couple times in a row to apologize for typos (I have a bad cold and am kind of loopy) and they said that doing that sometimes activates the spam filter. But they have had plenty of time to read my posts. I wonder what's wrong? Anyhoo, I've saved both threads as of this morning in case they never show up. (I can see my own stuck posts when I'm logged in) I have a different user name-I went to UD before I found PT.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,19:11    Quote She thinks she's the equivalent of Dembski now, despite only having a Master's!" Kristine - Pretty darned sneaky information for a witch!@  CONGRATULATIONS!  You is now a Master. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

utidjian Posts: 185 Joined: Oct. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,19:25    OMFG is this the record for the shortest KF ever? LINK I count only 48 words in that post, including his .sig. Perhaps it was so short because it looks like he was actually trying to think in that post. He fails of course. Still inane speculation. Anyhow I spotted it and if there is a prize for such a rare find I want it donated to Louis's mom. -DU- -------------- Being laughed at doesn't mean you're progressing along some line. It probably just means you're saying some stupid shit -stevestory

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,19:44    Back in moderation again! I tried my best to post only once and to be polite, but I want the interchange to stay on track. I am familiar with the work of several prominent anthropologists, and a good number of younger, mid-career anthropologists, geologists and primate researchers. (some are family or close friends) and this thread claimed that they are all deluded, they're making it all up and their work is wrong. Is it unreasonable to ask them to explain the hominid/ early primate fossil record from the perspective of their alternate paradigm? Those are pretty profound claims, IMHO. They keep going off into areas I can't follow, or asking me questions (in areas I don't know) and my comments are stuck in moderation for hours.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,19:48    Quote (lkeithlu @ April 03 2011,19:39) I'm not sure what's going on. They have acknowledged that my posts are stuck, but nothing is happening. I'm not being obnoxious or profane, although I did post a couple times in a row to apologize for typos (I have a bad cold and am kind of loopy) and they said that doing that sometimes activates the spam filter. But they have had plenty of time to read my posts. I wonder what's wrong? Anyhoo, I've saved both threads as of this morning in case they never show up. (I can see my own stuck posts when I'm logged in) I have a different user name-I went to UD before I found PT. They seem to have cut you loose now, your comments have appeared. (Edited for clarity.) Edited by Lou FCD on April 03 2011,20:49 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,19:54    I'm afraid those are the comments from last night and this morning. The ones from the last couple of hours are still in moderation; in the meantime other posters have commented, which is going to make mine look out of context when it finally appears.

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,20:38    Still no answer from Mr. Focus, just something about information. Is my question unreasonable, given the claim in the original thread?

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,21:04    Quote (lkeithlu @ April 03 2011,19:54) I'm afraid those are the comments from last night and this morning. The ones from the last couple of hours are still in moderation; in the meantime other posters have commented, which is going to make mine look out of context when it finally appears. That's the name of the game. Let enough posts show up to bury yours. That and delay yours until the whole thread is buried. In hopes you will give up. And if you don't give up, no one will notice anyway. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Jim_Wynne Posts: 1208 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,21:13    Quote (didymos @ April 01 2011,23:47) GilDo's got a "new" post. A1. Duly acknowledged -------------- Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,21:17    Yeah, again I get a lecture on metaphysics when what I asked for was explanation of the fossil record from their paradigm. It takes way too long to make progress when a) they won't address the original claim of the post, which by the way was THEIR claim, not mine and b) my posts spend hours (12 or more) in moderation while others post on; when mine finally appears it's way too old. I thought my question was appropriate. The fossils exist, so explain them. Think evolution is the wrong paradigm? Fine-explain them using another. They kept switching to cell biology or computer stuff, neither of which seems to apply. Oh well; could have spent my day doing something else. Now I really see that there is nothing out there except evolutionary theory. If I thought it would help, I would have dropped some names but it was clear they didn't care if I was friends with Einstein himself. I found there statements about physical anthropologists really shocking and presumptuous, especially in light of the fact that they appeared to know almost nothing about the fossil record, and still felt they had the authority to dismiss it and the work of many scientists as nonsense. That takes a lot of moxey. I don't think you could get away with that in the real world, only in the virtual world. (or at least I hope not)

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,21:19    here's the thing, when some tard starts crying about "probabilistic resources" they are so far into abstraction land that it doesn't matter what the hell else they are talking about it's bullshit for fucks sake define the "probabilistic resources" that went into me and my lovely wife making this big ass cheesy spinachy asparagussy morel dip yesterday.  you can't because it's horseshit of course but if you try to tell me we didn't eat the absolute fool out of it I will smack you with the turd. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 03 2011,21:31    Quote (lkeithlu @ April 03 2011,21:17) Yeah, again I get a lecture on metaphysics when what I asked for was explanation of the fossil record from their paradigm. It takes way too long to make progress when a) they won't address the original claim of the post, which by the way was THEIR claim, not mine and b) my posts spend hours (12 or more) in moderation while others post on; when mine finally appears it's way too old. I thought my question was appropriate. The fossils exist, so explain them. Think evolution is the wrong paradigm? Fine-explain them using another. They kept switching to cell biology or computer stuff, neither of which seems to apply. Oh well; could have spent my day doing something else. Now I really see that there is nothing out there except evolutionary theory. If I thought it would help, I would have dropped some names but it was clear they didn't care if I was friends with Einstein himself. I found there statements about physical anthropologists really shocking and presumptuous, especially in light of the fact that they appeared to know almost nothing about the fossil record, and still felt they had the authority to dismiss it and the work of many scientists as nonsense. That takes a lot of moxey. I don't think you could get away with that in the real world, only in the virtual world. (or at least I hope not) Fossils exist only as the manifestation of human sin in a once perfect Creation. You silly person! I'm not sure that "moxey" is the word - more like arrogance, but yes, from what I have seen of these jokers, it's convinced me that evolutionary theory is stronger than ever. A lot has changed with the science since the carnival known as the "Little Rock Trial," but the ID carny tent/street theatre shell game has not changed since Scopes, really. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2011,00:06    What's the difference between creationists and philosophers? one of them is a bunch pf people who really have no idea what's going on and arguing about things that don't mean anything to the world and about trying to understand things that don't exist... the others are philosophers. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2011,00:42    Quote (utidjian @ April 03 2011,17:25) OMFG is this the record for the shortest KF ever? No.  I'm pretty sure he had a single-word post once (not counting the sig).  I know for sure he's had a few under 10 before too.  Usually they're an "F/N" or "PP.....S" or whatever. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2011,00:42    Quote (Jim_Wynne @ April 03 2011,19:13) Quote (didymos @ April 01 2011,23:47) GilDo's got a "new" post. A1. Duly acknowledged Lulzy. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2011,01:00    In the Two Challenges for KL ... thread, BS77 brings up a supposed million dollar prize "for proposing a highly plausible natural-process mechanism for the spontaneous rise of genetic instructions in nature sufficient to give rise to life." He gives this URL for more info on the prize: http://www.us.net/life/ When you go there, you find our old friend, David Abel at work again.  This time he has a "foundation".  The address of this "foundation" is given as The Origin-of-Life Science Foundation, Inc 113 Hedgewood Drive Greenbelt, MD, 20770-1610 Oddly enough, if you go to Google Maps and type in that address, then switch to Satellite picture, you find  you're looking at what appears to be an ordinary house in an ordinary residential neighborhood. To win, you seem to have to have your paper printed in a prestegious science journal (as Salvador would say), then their in-house staff scrutinizes it, then they hand it to a ten judge panel.  If 70% of the judges pass it, they hand it to another ten judge panel.  If 70% of those judges pass your idea, it's handed to a third ten judge panel.  And so on until the fifth ten judge panel passes on your idea.  However, the foundation reserves the right to have more than ten judges in any panel. "The final and highest tier of judging will be carried out by a select group of highly respected life-origin investigators and theorists along with Nobel laureates and distinguished members of many National Academies of Sciences who are not necessarily life-origin specialists." They list just about everybody you've ever heard of as judges.  Here's the first few, the rest can be found under "Judging": Freeman J. Dyson, USA, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton A. Graham Cairns-Smith, SCOTLAND, University of Glasgow (ret), Jack W. Szostak, USA, Dept. of Molecular Biology, Massachusetts Gen. Hosp. Jeffrey Tze-Fei Wong, HONG KONG, Biochem., Hong Kong Univ.of Sci.& Tech. Charles H. Townes, USA, Physics Dept, University of California at Berkeley John D. Barrow, U.K., Appl Math & Theor Physics, Cambridge Pier Luigi Luisi, SWITZERLAND, Institut fur Polymere, ETH-Zurich Paul Davies, AUSTRALIA, Professor of Physics, Burnside, South Australia I wonder how many of them have heard of the foundation? Meanwhile, I wouldn't make winning this prize a vital part of your retirement plans.

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2011,05:27    Quote Meanwhile, I wouldn't make winning this prize a vital part of your retirement plans. Someone already tried checking with the accountants to confirm the existence of the prize back in 2007 without much luck.

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2011,06:02    After more than 10 hours stuck in moderation, my departing post is still not up. This is what I said: KL 04/03/2011 8:10 pm Your comment is awaiting moderation. Well, folks, between spending hours in moderation and finding that no one is able to answer the original question, I guess it’s time to move on. Metaphysical arguments against evolution is not the same as explaining the evidence from a different paradigm. In science, if your explanation is better than the last, you should be able to show it, and no one is willing to do so here. I have to conclude that you all are a long way from providing anything that can remotely challenge evolution as the reigning paradigm. I had hoped you would have something. Perhaps you need to find an anthropologist to join you? A anyway, good luck. I think I’ll stick with my spouse and associates on this one, as they can address the specifics about the distribution, age and features of the fossils. You can’t ignore that they exist, so explaining them can’t be avoided. One final point-unless you fix your moderation system, you’ll not have many here offering a different perspective. 8,10,12 hours or more before a post appears is just too long; it disrupts the conversation and makes posts appear out of context.

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: April 04 2011,06:26    Quote After more than 10 hours stuck in moderation, my departing post is still not up. I think the Mathgrrl experiment was a step-too-far that the UD mods (Hi Clive) may not want to repeat!

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