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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 3, The Beast Marches On...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2010,09:09   

Quote (keiths @ Aug. 23 2010,14:28)

Quote
Heh. Jurassicmac buys some time:
Quote
I will read that article when I have a free moment, Lewis is one of my favorite authors and perhaps one of the best apologetic minds of the 20th century.


Whew...!

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2010,10:45   

Quote (Robin @ Aug. 24 2010,07:09)
[quote=keiths,Aug. 23 2010,14:28][/quote]
Quote
Heh. Jurassicmac buys some time:
 
Quote
I will read that article when I have a free moment, Lewis is one of my favorite authors and perhaps one of the best apologetic minds of the 20th century.


Whew...!

It's like that insurance commercial where the guy follows up the "You're heavier than you look" comment to his wife with, "Uh... I love you?"

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2010,10:51   

gpuccio clarifies the often confusing world of FSICISICIS
Quote
The bits of FSCI regard one object (or one system) and one function. FSCI is the number of functional information necessary to achieve one specific function. So, FSCI is not simply additive, as I have shown in my previous anser for you.
The concept is that any single object or system performing a specific function which results from at least a certain number of Fits (functional bits) of information (and 1000 is really an upper level threshold: IMO, 150 bits is a much more appropriate threshold for all biological contexts) is an object (or system) exhibiting FSCI. All such objects, as far as we know, are products of design, and have never a non designed origin.

The only exception is exactly the set of objects about which we discuss: biological objects, like genomes and proteomes.

2) FSCI is quantifiable, especially in its digital form (dFSCI).


That clears that up then! All designed objects are designed.....

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2010,14:33   

Quote (fnxtr @ Aug. 24 2010,10:45)

Quote
Quote (Robin @ Aug. 24 2010,07:09)
Quote (keiths @ Aug. 23 2010,14:28)

 
Quote
Heh. Jurassicmac buys some time:
 
Quote
I will read that article when I have a free moment, Lewis is one of my favorite authors and perhaps one of the best apologetic minds of the 20th century.


Whew...!

It's like that insurance commercial where the guy follows up the "You're heavier than you look" comment to his wife with, "Uh... I love you?"



:D

Ain't that the truth!

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2010,21:58   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Aug. 24 2010,10:51)
gpuccio clarifies the often confusing world of FSICISICIS
 
Quote
The bits of FSCI regard one object (or one system) and one function. FSCI is the number of functional information necessary to achieve one specific function. So, FSCI is not simply additive, as I have shown in my previous anser for you.
The concept is that any single object or system performing a specific function which results from at least a certain number of Fits (functional bits) of information (and 1000 is really an upper level threshold: IMO, 150 bits is a much more appropriate threshold for all biological contexts) is an object (or system) exhibiting FSCI. All such objects, as far as we know, are products of design, and have never a non designed origin.

The only exception is exactly the set of objects about which we discuss: biological objects, like genomes and proteomes.

2) FSCI is quantifiable, especially in its digital form (dFSCI).


That clears that up then! All designed objects are designed.....

I guess Drs. Dembski and Behe still haven't commented on FSCI, dFSCI etc.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,01:19   

BTW, does anybody know what has become of Kairosfocus dFSCI (whatever the d may stand for)?

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,02:38   

digital Functional Specified Complex Information

... which seems to be exactly the same as Dembski's Complex Specified Information.  But, thinking up new names and acronyms for the Same Old Crap keeps the Tard's minds occupied, so I don't correct them.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,05:26   

Is Denyse losing her audience?  

Her latest post, about the End of the World was written Tuesday and so far has attracted two responses, one clarifying the likely end of the world and the other saying, "Great Post!"

Her next latest post, a Coffee!! post about Bats being more dangerous than mothballs(sic) was also posted Tuesday and so far has attracted no replies.

Her next next latest post, Memory treatment is possible was written Monday and has 1 reply, which says "Cool Story."

Even Cornelius is doing better than that.  I know the average UD poster has not suddenly gotten a lot smarter, so I am forced to speculate that the problem is on O'Leary's end.  And I don't want to think about that.

Thong.

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,05:47   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Aug. 25 2010,06:26)
Is Denyse losing her audience?  

Her latest post, about the End of the World was written Tuesday and so far has attracted two responses, one clarifying the likely end of the world and the other saying, "Great Post!"

Her next latest post, a Coffee!! post about Bats being more dangerous than mothballs(sic) was also posted Tuesday and so far has attracted no replies.

Her next next latest post, Memory treatment is possible was written Monday and has 1 reply, which says "Cool Story."

Even Cornelius is doing better than that.  I know the average UD poster has not suddenly gotten a lot smarter, so I am forced to speculate that the problem is on O'Leary's end.  And I don't want to think about that.

Thong.

It is the August low, even the crackpots have gone to the beach.

Besides, Denyse's real audience is here!

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,07:01   

I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up confusion about the varieties of CSI. It's really not that hard (if you cook it right):




Ed: Spelling



Edited by Lou FCD on Aug. 26 2010,04:02

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,08:05   

Quote (Amadan @ Aug. 25 2010,07:01)
I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up confusion about the varieties of SCI. It's really not that hard (if you cook it right):


Good stuff!  

But once again, ID's front-loading predicted this... It's why they don't allow posters to insert jpegs at UD.  Which is actually too damed bad, because they could fill pages with the follow up.

Got to go, for some reason I'm hungry.  Need some garlic and some Buttoni!

Yours In JAD,

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,08:14   

Quote (Amadan @ Aug. 25 2010,07:01)
I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up confusion about the varieties of SCI. It's really not that hard (if you cook it right):


Testify, brother. Ramen!



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,09:58   

Quote (Amadan @ Aug. 25 2010,07:01)

Quote
I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up confusion about the varieties of CSI. It's really not that hard (if you cook it right):




Ed: Spelling


Ahhh...so it's actually pasta all the way down?

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,10:05   

Quote (Amadan @ Aug. 25 2010,07:01)
I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up confusion about the varieties of CSI. It's really not that hard (if you cook it right):




Ed: Spelling

 
Quote
Amadan: VermicellSCI (now why would anyone name something to do with ID after worms???

Which brings up some rather peculiar coincidences and how they affect the human imagination. First, Erasmus Darwin's work with vorticella and other microorganisms.



 
Quote
Erasmus Darwin: Thus the vorticella or wheel animal, which is found in rain water that has stood some days in leaden gutters . . .though it discovers no sign of life except when in the water, yet it is capable of continuing alive for many months though kept in a dry state ... in paste composed of flour and water, which has been suffered to become acescent [sour], the animalcules called eels, vibrio anguillula, are seen in great abundance; their motions are rapid and strong ... even the organic particles of dead animals may, when exposed to a due degree of warmth and moisture, regain some degree of vitality.

Paste, flour and water, yum; which is misremembered by Lord Byron and Percy Shelley as vermicelli, which led to 'deep conversations' to which Mary Shelley was a silent listener.



Meanwhile, across the world, Mount Tambora was erupting as a super-colossal event, spewing immense amounts of volcanic dust into the atmosphere. This led to dramatic global cooling, called the Year Without a Summer. It also resulted in some rather nice sunsets.



The "wet, ungenial summer" forced Mary Shelley, John Polidori, Lord Byron and friends to stay indoors, where they told ghost stories. Remembering about bringing the the vermicelli to life, Mary Shelley came up with Frankenstein, or The Modern Prometheus. Polidori wrote The Vampyre, whose main character was based on Byron. As everyone knows, Frankenstein and The Vamypre explored the limits of reason and passion, and spawned a multitude of B-movies.



This was the inspiration for VermicellCSI. So, that's how a fundamental concept in ID was named after worms, er, noodles.



Edited by Lou FCD on Aug. 26 2010,04:03

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,10:12   

Quote (Amadan @ Aug. 25 2010,07:01)
I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up confusion about the varieties of CSI. It's really not that hard (if you cook it right):




Ed: Spelling

PoTW

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,10:25   

Rich, I am, as always, flattened by your attentions (Thursday OK? And fer fecksake bring smooth, not crunchy this time!), but I must decline POTW in favour of Zachriel's massive erudition (that's what Louis's mum called it, anyway).

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,11:36   

We have a tie!

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,11:43   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 25 2010,10:12)
   
Quote (Amadan @ Aug. 25 2010,07:01)
I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up confusion about the varieties of CSI. It's really not that hard (if you cook it right):




Ed: Spelling

PoTW

Pasta of The Week

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,12:16   

Pasta la vista!

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,18:36   

StephenB:
 
Quote
molch, could Mozart, in writing a symphony for piano, have conceived the arrangement, defined the role for every instrument, and synthesized the entire arrangement into a unified whole—without free will.

"Symphony for piano?"

Christ.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 462
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,18:50   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Aug. 25 2010,20:26)
Is Denyse losing her audience?  

Her latest post, about the End of the World was written Tuesday and so far has attracted two responses, one clarifying the likely end of the world and the other saying, "Great Post!"

Her next latest post, a Coffee!! post about Bats being more dangerous than mothballs(sic) was also posted Tuesday and so far has attracted no replies.

Her next next latest post, Memory treatment is possible was written Monday and has 1 reply, which says "Cool Story."

Even Cornelius is doing better than that.  I know the average UD poster has not suddenly gotten a lot smarter, so I am forced to speculate that the problem is on O'Leary's end.  And I don't want to think about that.

Thong.

I just had to look and what struck me first was how literally she takes everything:

"The information race between bats and a favoured prey, moths, is described as an arms race (it is actually a race to interpret clicks. Neither party is armed, and certainly not the moth.)"

Somebody mentioned this about JoeG and I wonder if this is part of their disease. It would explain why they don't have a sense of humour.

The second thing was this quote:


"As is characteristic of legacy mainstream media, the story must all be interpreted dogmatically through Darwinist theory. But what’s missing from this very interesting account is how – exactly – the information race could evolve. “Natural selection” is increasingly evoked as a mere incantation, in the face of ever-growing awareness of complexity that are beyond its powers. That is, natural selection must be the cause because we “know” it is true."

Complex? Bats have natural variation in click frequencies. Bats that click in a frequency that their prey can't hear don't starve and thus have more kids.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,19:31   

Quote
Complex? Bats have natural variation in click frequencies. Bats that click in a frequency that their prey can't hear don't starve and thus have more kids.


Some sock should ask Denyse what happens if you cork your bat?*




* For all the Euros on this board, corking your bat is an American Baseball custom, if you are a cheater, ala Sammy Sosa and Pete Rose.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 462
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,20:42   

Quote (J-Dog @ Aug. 26 2010,10:31)
Quote
Complex? Bats have natural variation in click frequencies. Bats that click in a frequency that their prey can't hear don't starve and thus have more kids.


Some sock should ask Denyse what happens if you cork your bat?*




* For all the Euros on this board, corking your bat is an American Baseball custom, if you are a cheater, ala Sammy Sosa and Pete Rose.

Was I the only one a little disappointed when "corking the bat" was explained.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,20:42   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Aug. 25 2010,19:50)
I just had to look and what struck me first was how literally she takes everything:

"The information race between bats and a favoured prey, moths, is described as an arms race (it is actually a race to interpret clicks. Neither party is armed, and certainly not the moth.)"

I got a kick out of that too.

Incidentally, it is also true that evolutionary arms races don't involve upper limbs striving for the finish line.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Seversky



Posts: 442
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,20:44   

From Merriam-Webster:
 
Quote

bat·ty

\?ba-t?\ adjective

bat·ti·er  bat·ti·est

Definition of BATTY

1: of, relating to, or resembling a bat

2: mentally unstable : crazy

— bat·ti·ness noun

Examples of BATTY

  <a batty old lady who lives with 100 cats>



  
Ptaylor



Posts: 1180
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,22:31   

Gordon is missing his Japanese pal Nakashima:
 
Quote
PS: Blah blah blah I’d like to see someone explain how there is no true freedom of choice involved in writing Japanese. (We have not heard from our newly wed Nakashima-san, recently.) G

Someone:
 
Quote
Hi KF – Nakashima can’t comment – I am told he has been banned.

Uptight Asshole:
 
Quote
I feel bad for Nak. Clive gave him just enough rope to hang himself, and without even a moment’s thought he did just exactly that.

It really must have hurt. It certainly was embarrassing to watch.


Yeah, the brilliant Clive set a cunning trap and Nakashima being (like all evolutionists) a bit simple minded, fell straight into it. Funny, though, that's not quite how I remember it:
 
Quote
Clive Hayden

06/20/2010

3:11 am
Nakashima is not Asian, it’s a sock puppet name, he’s been banned from here many times...


--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2010,00:22   

MichaelJ  
Quote
I just had to look and what struck me first was how literally she takes everything:

"The information race between bats and a favoured prey, moths, is described as an arms race (it is actually a race to interpret clicks. Neither party is armed, and certainly not the moth.)"

Somebody mentioned this about JoeG and I wonder if this is part of their disease. It would explain why they don't have a sense of humour.


I've wondered the same thing, many times.  I really think that many of the UD big wigs, including Denyse and Dembski, have a mild form of autism.  

Especially Dembski.

Of course, many of them are Just Plain Nuts.

  
Pilchard



Posts: 40
Joined: May 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2010,02:53   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Aug. 26 2010,04:31)
Quote
PS: Blah blah blah I’d like to see someone explain how there is no true freedom of choice involved in writing Japanese. (We have not heard from our newly wed Nakashima-san, recently.) G

How to prove libertarian free-will: ignore the arguments, make a list of things one is incredulous could be done without libertarian free-will. If pressed, mention C.S. Lewis.

I can feel that philosophy PhD coming my way already.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2010,03:05   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Aug. 25 2010,18:50)
(snip)

I just had to look and what struck me first was how literally she takes everything:

"The information race between bats and a favoured prey, moths, is described as an arms race (it is actually a race to interpret clicks. Neither party is armed, and certainly not the moth.)"

When I read her OP, I thought she just saw an occasion to emphasize the IDiots' buzzword, "information" by critisizing "arms race". Of course, however, she takes everything literally. I bet she thinks moths are just those pesky things that want to devour her WAD's cardigan..

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1692
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2010,03:40   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Aug. 26 2010,02:42)
Quote (J-Dog @ Aug. 26 2010,10:31)
Quote
Complex? Bats have natural variation in click frequencies. Bats that click in a frequency that their prey can't hear don't starve and thus have more kids.


Some sock should ask Denyse what happens if you cork your bat?*




* For all the Euros on this board, corking your bat is an American Baseball custom, if you are a cheater, ala Sammy Sosa and Pete Rose.

Was I the only one a little disappointed when "corking the bat" was explained.

No, you weren't.

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
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