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Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2010,13:27    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 14 2010,19:17) Oleg: http://www.sciencenews.org/view....Feynman Is their server a 52ko hosted in Narnia? I can't reach the page... -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2010,20:48    This is interesting. From the abstract: Quote Pathogenic Gram-negative bacteria use a type three secretion system (TTSS) to deliver virulence factors into host cells. Although the order in which proteins incorporate into the growing TTSS is well described, the underlying assembly mechanisms are still unclear. Here we show that the TTSS needle protomer refolds spontaneously to extend the needle from the distal end. We developed a functional mutant of the needle protomer from Shigella flexneri and Salmonella typhimurium to study its assembly in vitro. We show that the protomer partially refolds from ?-helix[alpha helix - afarensis] into ?-strand [beta strand - afarensis] conformation to form the TTSS needle. Reconstitution experiments show that needle growth does not require ATP. Thus, like the structurally related flagellar systems, the needle elongates by subunit polymerization at the distal end but requires protomer refolding. Our studies provide a starting point to understand the molecular assembly mechanisms and the structure of the TTSS at atomic level. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 15 2010,12:16    Article on a protein that mutates quickly and drives speciation. Quote It’s logical then to ask what specifies or controls hotspot location. Scientists have gathered evidence that three different mechanisms are involved in controlling location and activity. First, the genomic sequence around each hotspot seems to be important; for example, 40 percent of human hotspots are associated with a repeating 13-basepair motif. However, because only a portion of hotspots correlates with a specific sequence, other factors must be involved. For example, evidence is accumulating that hotspot locations are associated with certain histone modifications. The third proposed mechanism implies that a soluble factor or protein must control the location and distribution of hotspots. Remarkably, a single protein appears to satisfy all three conditions. Read more: Sticky fingers - The Scientist - Magazine of the Life Sciences http://www.the-scientist.com/article/display/57466/#ixzz0qwWLH2d2 -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 15 2010,14:49    A query to y'all sciency types: I was reading Nick Lane's "The 10 Great Inventions of Evolution" last week. At one point he is describing the historical path to understanding how RNA led to protein formation, and the realization that amino acids didn't just attach to random spots on the mRNA chain, instead the ribsome mediated the growth of the protein as it walked the length of the messenger RNA. I was suddenly struck by the question of whether any protein folding algorithm actually works the same the way the ribosome does. My general impression of ab initio protein folding algorithms is that they start with the whole linear string of peptides floating freely in a solvent, and then let the whole string twist and collapse under the influence of local force fields. They don't, to my knowledge, build up the protein one AA at a time from one end which is tethered to a large object (ribosome + mRNA). Not surprisingly, they often don't fold into the native conformation. Reinforcing my general impression, a google search on 'incremental protein folding algorithm' didn't generate any decent hits. So I ask you - do you know of any such algorithm? Is this an idea that has been tried and discarded? It would seem to me to be much faster in some ways. Any suggestions on where/who could provide better insights? -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

REC Posts: 638 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 15 2010,15:02    Quote (dvunkannon @ June 15 2010,14:49) A query to y'all sciency types: I was reading Nick Lane's "The 10 Great Inventions of Evolution" last week. At one point he is describing the historical path to understanding how RNA led to protein formation, and the realization that amino acids didn't just attach to random spots on the mRNA chain, instead the ribsome mediated the growth of the protein as it walked the length of the messenger RNA. I was suddenly struck by the question of whether any protein folding algorithm actually works the same the way the ribosome does. My general impression of ab initio protein folding algorithms is that they start with the whole linear string of peptides floating freely in a solvent, and then let the whole string twist and collapse under the influence of local force fields. They don't, to my knowledge, build up the protein one AA at a time from one end which is tethered to a large object (ribosome + mRNA). Not surprisingly, they often don't fold into the native conformation. Reinforcing my general impression, a google search on 'incremental protein folding algorithm' didn't generate any decent hits. So I ask you - do you know of any such algorithm? Is this an idea that has been tried and discarded? It would seem to me to be much faster in some ways. Any suggestions on where/who could provide better insights? The search you're looking for is "algorithm cotranslational protein folding" Since co-translational folding is a known (but fought over) mechanism, that makes solution folding of a whole denatured protein and the folding of a nascent peptide during translation different, this is important. http://www.jbc.org/content/275/22/16597.full And people are starting to work on it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1523309/ "Molecular Simulations of Cotranslational Protein Folding: Fragment Stabilities, Folding Cooperativity, and Trapping in the Ribosome"

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 16 2010,06:36    Quote (REC @ June 15 2010,16:02)   Quote (dvunkannon @ June 15 2010,14:49) A query to y'all sciency types: I was reading Nick Lane's "The 10 Great Inventions of Evolution" last week. At one point he is describing the historical path to understanding how RNA led to protein formation, and the realization that amino acids didn't just attach to random spots on the mRNA chain, instead the ribsome mediated the growth of the protein as it walked the length of the messenger RNA. I was suddenly struck by the question of whether any protein folding algorithm actually works the same the way the ribosome does. My general impression of ab initio protein folding algorithms is that they start with the whole linear string of peptides floating freely in a solvent, and then let the whole string twist and collapse under the influence of local force fields. They don't, to my knowledge, build up the protein one AA at a time from one end which is tethered to a large object (ribosome + mRNA). Not surprisingly, they often don't fold into the native conformation. Reinforcing my general impression, a google search on 'incremental protein folding algorithm' didn't generate any decent hits. So I ask you - do you know of any such algorithm? Is this an idea that has been tried and discarded? It would seem to me to be much faster in some ways. Any suggestions on where/who could provide better insights? The search you're looking for is "algorithm cotranslational protein folding" Since co-translational folding is a known (but fought over) mechanism, that makes solution folding of a whole denatured protein and the folding of a nascent peptide during translation different, this is important. http://www.jbc.org/content/275/22/16597.full And people are starting to work on it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1523309/ "Molecular Simulations of Cotranslational Protein Folding: Fragment Stabilities, Folding Cooperativity, and Trapping in the Ribosome" Thanks, REC! From a recent publication:   Quote BMC Bioinformatics. 2010 Apr 7;11:172. Directionality in protein fold prediction. Ellis JJ, Huard FP, Deane CM, Srivastava S, Wood GR. Department of Statistics, Macquarie University, Sydney, NSW 2109, Australia. Abstract BACKGROUND: Ever since the ground-breaking work of Anfinsen et al. in which a denatured protein was found to refold to its native state, it has been frequently stated by the protein fold prediction community that all the information required for protein folding lies in the amino acid sequence. Recent in vitro experiments and in silico computational studies, however, have shown that cotranslation may affect the folding pathway of some proteins, especially those of ancient folds. In this paper aspects of cotranslational folding have been incorporated into a protein structure prediction algorithm by adapting the Rosetta program to fold proteins as the nascent chain elongates. This makes it possible to conduct a pairwise comparison of folding accuracy, by comparing folds created sequentially from each end of the protein. RESULTS: A single main result emerged: in 94% of proteins analyzed, following the sense of translation, from N-terminus to C-terminus, produced better predictions than following the reverse sense of translation, from the C-terminus to N-terminus. Two secondary results emerged. First, this superiority of N-terminus to C-terminus folding was more marked for proteins showing stronger evidence of cotranslation and second, an algorithm following the sense of translation produced predictions comparable to, and occasionally better than, Rosetta. CONCLUSIONS: There is a directionality effect in protein fold prediction. At present, prediction methods appear to be too noisy to take advantage of this effect; as techniques refine, it may be possible to draw benefit from a sequential approach to protein fold prediction. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 16 2010,06:58    Good news (from the IEEE Spectrum) for intelligent-designer-philes like Sal! Engineer/computer geek develops sex robots.   Quote Hines devised the skin by encasing a woman—a fine-art model—in silicone and cutting the material away after it solidified. “Roxxxy has three inputs and motors where it counts,” explains Hines. “There’s a lot of heat buildup, so we installed a convection system. Other motors simulate a heartbeat and responsive gestures.” Chunkdz will have to wait for a bit.   Quote A male version, Rocky, is planned by year’s end. “My wife wants to be a beta tester, which is just desserts for my spending time in the middle of the night with girls covered in silicone,” he says. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

ppb Posts: 325 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 16 2010,15:51    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ June 16 2010,07:58) Good news (from the IEEE Spectrum) for intelligent-designer-philes like Sal! Engineer/computer geek develops sex robots.     Quote Hines devised the skin by encasing a woman—a fine-art model—in silicone and cutting the material away after it solidified. “Roxxxy has three inputs and motors where it counts,” explains Hines. “There’s a lot of heat buildup, so we installed a convection system. Other motors simulate a heartbeat and responsive gestures.” Chunkdz will have to wait for a bit.     Quote A male version, Rocky, is planned by year’s end. “My wife wants to be a beta tester, which is just desserts for my spending time in the middle of the night with girls covered in silicone,” he says. It's just more proof of ID theory.  Sex couldn't have evolved.  It requires a designer!   -------------- "[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd." - Richard P. Feynman

skeptic reborn Posts: 16 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 16 2010,23:46    Quote (dvunkannon @ June 15 2010,12:16) Article on a protein that mutates quickly and drives speciation.   Quote It’s logical then to ask what specifies or controls hotspot location. Scientists have gathered evidence that three different mechanisms are involved in controlling location and activity. First, the genomic sequence around each hotspot seems to be important; for example, 40 percent of human hotspots are associated with a repeating 13-basepair motif. However, because only a portion of hotspots correlates with a specific sequence, other factors must be involved. For example, evidence is accumulating that hotspot locations are associated with certain histone modifications. The third proposed mechanism implies that a soluble factor or protein must control the location and distribution of hotspots. Remarkably, a single protein appears to satisfy all three conditions. Read more: Sticky fingers - The Scientist - Magazine of the Life Sciences http://www.the-scientist.com/article/display/57466/#ixzz0qwWLH2d2 Wonderful stuff!  Studies like these are just the beginning.  One of these days, fifty years from now, we'll be able to tell our great-grandchildren (hopefully) that we once believed evolution was random.  As the famous chaos theorisist once said, "life finds a way."

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 17 2010,00:29    Quote (skeptic reborn @ June 16 2010,21:46) Wonderful stuff!  Studies like these are just the beginning.  One of these days, fifty years from now, we'll be able to tell our great-grandchildren (hopefully) that we once believed evolution was random.  As the famous chaos theorisist once said, "life finds a way." Who is "we", kimosabe?  Random is not a word currently used to describe evolution, except by creato strawmakers. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 18 2010,23:54    Self replication in Conway's Life: http://www.newscientist.com/article....or.html -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2010,07:46    Oh boy.  I can hear the creationist yelling "victory" over this one. Canyon carved in just three days "ScienceDaily (June 20, 2010) — In the summer of 2002, a week of heavy rains in Central Texas caused Canyon Lake -- the reservoir of the Canyon Dam -- to flood over its spillway and down the Guadalupe River Valley in a planned diversion to save the dam from catastrophic failure. The flood, which continued for six weeks, stripped the valley of mesquite, oak trees, and soil; destroyed a bridge; and plucked meter-wide boulders from the ground. And, in a remarkable demonstration of the power of raging waters, the flood excavated a 2.2-kilometer-long, 7-meter-deep canyon in the bedrock." Michael P. Lamb, Mark A. Fonstad. Rapid formation of a modern bedrock canyon by a single flood event. Nature Geoscience, 2010; DOI: 10.1038/ngeo894 -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2010,07:18    Some of you may have heard of the TransOcean/BP/Halliburton/Macondo Prospect/Mississippi Canyon 252 incident/oil spill currently ongoing in the Gulf of Mexico. I've been pitching an idea around concerning acoustic monitoring of snapping shrimp. If you don't already know, these are small shrimp that use one oversized claw to "snap", an abrupt motion that causes a cavitation event. This can stun or kill outright small prey items. The snaps are also very, very loud. Where there are snapping shrimp, there tend to be quite high numbers of them: in seagrass, in rocks, in coral reefs. Thus, in the near-shore, structured environments favored by snapping shrimp, there is usually a pervasive noise from the collective snapping of the whole population of these shrimp. The noise is broadband, with a peak frequency up around 50kHz. But because the energy is broadband, there's plenty to be heard in the usual human audio range of 20Hz to 20kHz. I'm aiming toward a citizen scientist project based on acoustic monitoring of snapping shrimp. The first installment on that is here. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2010,17:37    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 25 2010,05:18) Some of you may have heard of the TransOcean/BP/Halliburton/Macondo Prospect/Mississippi Canyon 252 incident/oil spill currently ongoing in the Gulf of Mexico. I've been pitching an idea around concerning acoustic monitoring of snapping shrimp. If you don't already know, these are small shrimp that use one oversized claw to "snap", an abrupt motion that causes a cavitation event. This can stun or kill outright small prey items. The snaps are also very, very loud. Where there are snapping shrimp, there tend to be quite high numbers of them: in seagrass, in rocks, in coral reefs. Thus, in the near-shore, structured environments favored by snapping shrimp, there is usually a pervasive noise from the collective snapping of the whole population of these shrimp. The noise is broadband, with a peak frequency up around 50kHz. But because the energy is broadband, there's plenty to be heard in the usual human audio range of 20Hz to 20kHz. I'm aiming toward a citizen scientist project based on acoustic monitoring of snapping shrimp. The first installment on that is here. When does the Snapping Shrimp Orchestra CD come out? Christmas? -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2010,19:14    Some people like rain forest sounds. For myself, a nice chorus of snapping shrimp is about as soothing as it gets. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2010,19:30    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 25 2010,19:14) Some people like rain forest sounds. For myself, a nice chorus of snapping shrimp is about as soothing as it gets. For some reason, all I can think of is the prologue to West Side Story. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

rhmc Posts: 340 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2010,20:16    Quote (carlsonjok @ June 25 2010,20:30) For some reason, all I can think of is the prologue to West Side Story. and that reminds me of: when you're a jet you're a jet all the way. from your first cigarette til your last dying day... alice cooper.  school's out.

rhmc Posts: 340 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2010,20:25    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 25 2010,08:18) Some of you may have heard of the TransOcean/BP/Halliburton/Macondo Prospect/Mississippi Canyon 252 incident/oil spill currently ongoing in the Gulf of Mexico. I've been pitching an idea around concerning acoustic monitoring of snapping shrimp. If you don't already know, these are small shrimp that use one oversized claw to "snap", an abrupt motion that causes a cavitation event. This can stun or kill outright small prey items. The snaps are also very, very loud. Where there are snapping shrimp, there tend to be quite high numbers of them: in seagrass, in rocks, in coral reefs. Thus, in the near-shore, structured environments favored by snapping shrimp, there is usually a pervasive noise from the collective snapping of the whole population of these shrimp. The noise is broadband, with a peak frequency up around 50kHz. But because the energy is broadband, there's plenty to be heard in the usual human audio range of 20Hz to 20kHz. I'm aiming toward a citizen scientist project based on acoustic monitoring of snapping shrimp. The first installment on that is here. That's interesting stuff.   I collect biological specimens for an ichthyologist  at the University of Miami. We fish, seine and throw a cast net alot and send samples, two by two if possible.   East of Savannah. We see a little bit of everything. Wife has participated in some of the Caretta Research projects monitoring egg laying on the nearby barrier islands. Caretta caretta is an awesome critter. The UGA Skidaway Institute is not far from here and we do some stuff with them. They've not broken out a hydrophone yet.  Perhaps I should mention such? I'll see if I can send some of those folks to your site.  Or is there a better place to send such marine folk?

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 26 2010,04:25    I don't know offhand of a better place to send them. If I knew of some group doing recordings to assess invertebrate populations, I'd be trying to help them out. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 26 2010,13:50    I'll make some comments about gear for recording snapping shrimp. At the minimal, low-cost end, one can demonstrate that snapping shrimp are active at a particular place and time with just an audio recording. For this level of documentation, one should have an audio recorder and either a hydrophone or a water-resistant microphone. If you already have an audio recorder (cassette tape, DAT, digital recorder, voice recorder, video camcorder, etc.) and a hydrophone, you are set. You can make a hydrophone or water-resistant microphone inexpensively. If you go with making a microphone water-resistant, it is best to think of it as a disposable item. In other words, think Coby, not Sennheiser, when picking a microphone to deploy in saltwater, unless you have cash to burn. A common way to make a microphone water-resistant is to slide it into an unlubricated condom and seal the condom's open end to the microphone cable. This can be done with alternating layers of good electrical tape (i.e., 3M Scotch Super 33+) and a sealing compound (i.e., 3M Scotchkote (preferred) or rubber cement (OK in a pinch)). I'd do at least two layers of seal. Obviously, a dynamic microphone rather than an electret will be easier to deal with, since the electret mics require a battery or phantom power. Let's say that you buy a dynamic mic for $20 or less, the Scotchkote is about $20 at Home Depot the last time I got it there, and Super 33+ is about $4 a roll. I don't recall the cost on unlubricated condoms, but let's just call this do-it-yourself project about $50 for the first one, and less than $25 each for subsequent ones. A do-it-yourself hydrophone can be prepared using a piezoelectric element with cabling, sealed against saltwater intrusion. Here is a source of piezo disks, 6 for $1.50. You'll need a cable, so make one of suitable length. Coax is better for the small signals coming out of the piezo disk. You need to solder the cable at one end to each side of the disk; for the disks linked above, that would be one solder connection anywhere on the metal backing, and one on the visible disk material. For a somewhat more sophisticated project, add a preamplifier circuit and a line for power for it. Putting a preamplifier right with the transducer helps reduce transmission loss, especially if you want to use a long cable. Another unlubricated condom can be used to cast the disk and exposed cable connections (and pre-amp, if it is used) with some casting material (urethane, epoxy, or silicone caulk in order of preference). At the other end, add a signal connector for your equipment. You will likely need an amplifier to go between a piezo disk hydrophone and a recorder. Radio Shack's Mini Audio Amplifier has adjustable gain, a speaker, and a headphone jack for $15. If you use it, you'll want to put an 1/8" mini-plug end on the hydrophone, and get a 1/8" mini-plug cable to go to your recorder. The RS amp is also useful to check out function of components simply by listening to the speaker output. Toting up, let's say $5 for piezo disks and shipping, $10 for coax cable, $15 for the mini amp, $5 for the plug for the cable, $5 for a connecting cable, and $10 for casting material. That's about $50 for a do-it-yourself hydrophone system. I'll discuss getting better recordings and how the price goes up for that later. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2010,11:20    Quote mine in 3...2...1 http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-06/afot-tbt062910.php Quote Turning back the cellular clock Tel Aviv University develops method for tracking adult stem cells as they regress   Cell reprogramming calls The Curious Case of Benjamin Button to mind. Reprogramming = computer!!!!11111one -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2010,21:20    A new endosymbiotic relationship appears in fruit flies ? I'm sure ID predicted this.

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2010,23:50    Yikes, us primates are doomed, doomed I tells ya Quote Researchers first recorded the incident in 2005 when a group of eight pied tamarins were feeding in a ficus tree. They then observed a margay emitting calls similar to those made by tamarin babies. This attracted the attention of a tamarin "sentinel," which climbed down from the tree to investigate the sounds coming from a tangle of vines called lianas. While the sentinel monkey started vocalizing to warn the rest of the group of the strange calls, the monkeys were clearly confounded by these familiar vocalizations, choosing to investigate rather than flee. Four other tamarins climbed down to assess the nature of the calls. At that moment, a margay emerged from the foliage walking down the trunk of a tree in a squirrel-like fashion, jumping down and then moving towards the monkeys. Realizing the ruse, the sentinel screamed an alarm and sent the other tamarins fleeing. Apparently the behavior occurs in a wide variety of South American felines. I think they are transitional species to LOL cats.... Edit to add: Okay a quick search reveals this was actually published in Neotropical Primates last year. I'm not sure why it is just now hitting Science Daily. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 12 2010,02:00    The Earth is younger than previously thought! Is the Darwinist tent is big enough to include the Young Earth Darwinists (4.467 billion) and the Old Earth Darwinsts (4.537 billion) ?

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 12 2010,12:45    Standards Framework for K-12 Science - Public Comments Open This link takes you to a proposed draft document for national level science standards.  The document is open for public comment from now until August 2nd. A survey will be posted in a few days. I would appreciate any with strong interest and/or training in science or education reading this (long) document and making any comments for improvement that you can find. Wes, might it be possible to post this to the PT main page? Thanks -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Raevmo Posts: 235 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 12 2010,17:35    The end of gravity? Now is the time to buy those mcdonalds stock options, before the rest of the world learns that weight is just an illusion... -------------- After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM. --GilDodgen

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 12 2010,22:20    Quote Is the Darwinist tent is big enough to include the Young Earth Darwinists (4.467 billion) and the Old Earth Darwinsts (4.537 billion) ? What's 60 million years between friends? (If I did the math right.) Henry

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 13 2010,19:32    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFwgblszf6s -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 13 2010,21:19    Similar patterns of cortical expansion during human development and evolution Here is the abstract: Quote The cerebral cortex of the human infant at term is complexly folded in a similar fashion to adult cortex but has only one third the total surface area. By comparing 12 healthy infants born at term with 12 healthy young adults, we demonstrate that postnatal cortical expansion is strikingly nonuniform: regions of lateral temporal, parietal, and frontal cortex expand nearly twice as much as other regions in the insular and medial occipital cortex. This differential postnatal expansion may reflect regional differences in the maturity of dendritic and synaptic architecture at birth and/or in the complexity of dendritic and synaptic architecture in adults. This expression may also be associated with differential sensitivity of cortical circuits to childhood experience and insults. By comparing human and macaque monkey cerebral cortex, we infer that the pattern of human evolutionary expansion is remarkably similar to the pattern of human postnatal expansion. To account for this correspondence, we hypothesize that it is beneficial for regions of recent evolutionary expansion to remain less mature at birth, perhaps to increase the influence of postnatal experience on the development of these regions or to focus prenatal resources on regions most important for early survival. The article is open access. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 14 2010,03:37    Quote (midwifetoad @ July 14 2010,01:32) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFwgblszf6s WTF?!? Ok, the "Evil Owl" is pretty disturbing... -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

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