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Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,11:51    Quote (Ftk @ June 27 2007,15:29) Ian, I guess I'm having an Icky moment.  Read the last few pages (or the whole thread for that matter) and let me know if you would respond in an environment like this if the tables were turned and this venue were a hostile ID forum. There's really no point in dialogue on these topics because it does nothing other than stoke the fires.  Answer one question, up pops another...there's no end to it (from both sides).  We're never going to see eye to eye. This just isn't productive, and I'd be better off spending more time with my family than wasting my time here. But, if Richard sticks around, I'm might be compelled to chime in from time to time... ;)  I really have no idea why I am so attracted to that cute little tard hat. That is not exactly a symmetric comparison.  Rationalists like to troll the fundatic websites too.  But they tend not to be seen because they don't get through the censorship as easily as creo's do here.  And that is at websites that allow commenting at all.  Many do not.  Very revealing, don't you think? -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,11:59    Quote (Paul Flocken @ June 28 2007,11:51) Quote (Ftk @ June 27 2007,15:29) Ian, I guess I'm having an Icky moment.  Read the last few pages (or the whole thread for that matter) and let me know if you would respond in an environment like this if the tables were turned and this venue were a hostile ID forum. There's really no point in dialogue on these topics because it does nothing other than stoke the fires.  Answer one question, up pops another...there's no end to it (from both sides).  We're never going to see eye to eye. This just isn't productive, and I'd be better off spending more time with my family than wasting my time here. But, if Richard sticks around, I'm might be compelled to chime in from time to time... ;)  I really have no idea why I am so attracted to that cute little tard hat. That is not exactly a symmetric comparison.  Rationalists like to troll the fundatic websites too.  But they tend not to be seen because they don't get through the censorship as easily as creo's do here.  And that is at websites that allow commenting at all.  Many do not.  Very revealing, don't you think? It seems this point may have been brought up before; I can't remember. How about you, Ftk?  Have you ever given any thought to this? -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,12:03    Quote Ftk wrote: That's simply your opinion, and you're welcome to it. She is simply going to bury herself in relativism.  Well atleast she seems to have more of a live and let live attitude then phelps and his ilk. -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,12:08    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 27 2007,18:17) Archaeology:  Erm? Name that Pharoah! List of Pharoahs -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,12:09    As regards Phelps, yep.  But he truly is one of the more despicable human beings to have ever walked around.  Comparisons to him are not warranted in many (if any) cases. The relativism angle is one that has always fascinated me.  Fundies (and to a greater extent, Conservatives in general) use up a lot of oxygen bemoaning the relativism of liberals and anyone else they don't like.  However, when it comes to defending their pet theories, it's relative away. Weird. -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,12:23    Quote (Ftk @ June 27 2007,21:59) If you want an itemized list, it might be a while.  This site is typical of every other evo site out there.  Answer one question, 20 new ones are thrown back at you.  If I have time to answer one of those, the other 19 cry foul.  If I answer the other 19, 50 additional new questions pop up.  Sigh... You just might be on the cusp of realizing that all that questioning is because the world is a great deal more complicated than can be accommodated in a few pages of a single book so old that man could not write when it was being dreamed up and orally handed down and was barely able melt copper and tin when it was written.  You don't have far to jump.  And I think some here have tried hard because they think you just might be able to jump that far. -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,12:24    FTK, Time and again I've asked you nice questions, time and again I've been so polite my heair hurt and time and again you've handwaved/ignored all my (and those of many other's also) to engage you in reasonable discussion on ANY topic, let alone science. Hence why my scepticism towards your claims of open, honest desire for discussion has blossomed. Claims that we are all horribly biased and evil and god hating naughty persons butters no parsnips. Time and again you've been given golden opportunities to back up your claims and time and again you haven't. Since (as I mentioned before) claims to "having read lots of journal articles" doesn't move me at all (for the reasons mentioned) I would like you to answer one question, i.e. support one claim with some evidence and defend it. You claim that in the biology textbook that Albatrossity2 sent you there are claims based on nothing more than assertion and speculation alone. List a few and show where they are supported by assertion and speculation alone. You claim this to be the case, so it should be simple for you to do it. I'm not asking for it right this second, I'm not asking you to disprove centuries of science, I'm not asking for you to prove the whole of ID creationism, I'm not asking you to prove god exists or doesn't or is the one you believe in. I am just asking you to put your money where your mouth is. You are fond of making these big claims and running away or crying "persecution" whenever asked to support them. No meaningful dialogue can ever develop when you behave this dishonestly. And to answer your question, yes, if I ever went over to UD or somewhere like it (not that this is an equal or valid comparison at all) and made the same sort of claims you do I would damned well support it (until I was undoubtedly booted). So come on FTK, you have NO excuse not to support this claim that YOU have made. No one forced you to make it, no one is making you believe it or post it on any website, you have done this of your own volition. Since I am a curious person I would like to see what evidence you have to support this claim you make. Show me the evidence or retract the claim. Why is that hard for you to do? Louis -------------- Bye.

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,12:45    Quote (blipey @ June 28 2007,12:09) As regards Phelps, yep.  But he truly is one of the more despicable human beings to have ever walked around.  Comparisons to him are not warranted in many (if any) cases. I will accept that, but only in part.  I am personally familiar enough with fundatics (my sister married into a family of them) that I don't accept phelps as so far from the mean as people might think.  In line with Godwin, though, I will not make that comparison again.     Quote The relativism angle is one that has always fascinated me.  Fundies (and to a greater extent, Conservatives in general) use up a lot of oxygen bemoaning the relativism of liberals and anyone else they don't like.  However, when it comes to defending their pet theories, it's relative away. Weird. I noticed that weirdness myself, too. added in edit:  Yes, an invidious comparison was a poor thing for me to do. -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:03    I guess I proved my point (again).  I answer one of Dave's questions and approx. 12 more popped up.  Let's see...where to begin?   Sigh...I think I'll wait 'till the weekend when I actually have time to take the questions seriously.  But, I have no idea which questions to start with...do I try to use my "telepathy" and answer people who I think might sincerely want to discuss the issue, or do I just start picking off each question from the start of the thread?  That would probably take my entire weekend to get through. Hell, maybe I'll just close my eyes and scan through with my cursor and wherever I stop, I answer that question. Or, better yet, maybe I should join Icky in greener pastures. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:12    Quote (Ftk @ June 28 2007,13:03) I guess I proved my point (again).  I answer one of Dave's questions and approx. 12 more popped up.  Let's see...where to begin? No, you didn't answer them, as I politely pointed out. Let's keep that part straight, at least. Revisionist history won't work here; there is a written record. And unless I am mistaken, at least some of the "new" questions you are upset about are the same old questions which you didn't answer. Read the post by Louis to see this for yourself. Honestly, if you ever did answer a question here, we'd all be so stunned you could probably take a week off, at least. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:19    You know when your kids are lying to you, Ftk?  That's right, it's when they can't stay on topic, switch the subject, and generally talk around any question you ask them. If you can tell wen they're lying (and I'll bet you can), why do you think we can't tell when you do it? For example, when your kids are lying, do they sound like this: Quote Sigh...I think I'll wait 'till the weekend when I actually have time to take the questions seriously.  But, I have no idea which questions to start with...do I try to use my "telephathy" and answer people who I think might sincerely want to discuss the issue, or do I just start picking off each question from the start of the thread?  That would probably take my entire weekend to get through. Hell, maybe I'll just close my eyes and scan through with my cursor and wherever I stop, I answer that question. Notice that I left you one very easy out (perhaps more).  Please use it to continue your poor-me act. -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:20    Quote (Paul Flocken @ June 28 2007,13:45) I am personally familiar enough with fundatics (my sister married into a family of them) I've had relationships with a wide array of women. Rich, poor, smart, dumb, beautiful, ugly.* The only deal breaker is, No Fundies. Fortunately, I've spent the last 8 years of my life in college towns (Raleigh, Durham, and now Chapel Hill) so that's not a problem. * (friend of mine used to say, "big, small, short or tall, I Love Em All)

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:37    Quote (stevestory @ June 28 2007,13:20) Quote (Paul Flocken @ June 28 2007,13:45) I am personally familiar enough with fundatics (my sister married into a family of them) I've had relationships with a wide array of women. Rich, poor, smart, dumb, beautiful, ugly.* The only deal breaker is, No Fundies. Fortunately, I've spent the last 8 years of my life in college towns (Raleigh, Durham, and now Chapel Hill) so that's not a problem. * (friend of mine used to say, "big, small, short or tall, I Love Em All)  :p ie. Steve's post:  Holy crap...dude, you are missing out. The rest of you are full of BS.  I've answered questions, and I've given you a whole freakin' book to consider.  Ians been asking questions about it, and I haven't seen answers to all his questions.  The ones you do answer, you just cut and paste.  Can I cut and paste?  Would that be okay?  Seems whenever I cut and paste, I'm called on that too. You want me to spend hours researching and giving you *my opinion* on these issues.  So, you'll have to wait until I have time.   Blipey...bite me.  You're nuts, you know that?  You've left so many posts on my blog, I'm starting to worry about you.  Seriously.  Do actors have that much spare time on their hands?? -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:48    Quote (Ftk @ June 28 2007,13:37)   Quote (stevestory @ June 28 2007,13:20)   Quote (Paul Flocken @ June 28 2007,13:45) I am personally familiar enough with fundatics (my sister married into a family of them) I've had relationships with a wide array of women. Rich, poor, smart, dumb, beautiful, ugly.* The only deal breaker is, No Fundies. Fortunately, I've spent the last 8 years of my life in college towns (Raleigh, Durham, and now Chapel Hill) so that's not a problem. * (friend of mine used to say, "big, small, short or tall, I Love Em All)  :p ie. Steve's post:  Holy crap...dude, you are missing out. The rest of you are full of BS.  I've answered questions, and I've given you a whole freakin' book to consider.  Ians been asking questions about it, and I haven't seen answers to all his questions.  The ones you do answer, you just cut and paste.  Can I cut and paste?  Would that be okay?  Seems whenever I cut and paste, I'm called on that too. You want me to spend hours researching and giving you *my opinion* on these issues.  So, you'll have to wait until I have time.   Blipey...bite me.  You're nuts, you know that?  You've left so many posts on my blog, I'm starting to worry about you.  Seriously.  Do actors have that much spare time on their hands?? Hilarious. As I predicted on Ian's recently-initiated thread for the Walt Brown Discussion   Quote I'll even promise to stay out of this, since it is clear that she already knows "know where the conversation is going to end up". And so do I. It will end up with her ignoring civil questions until somebody gets uncivil. I just wouldn't have predicted it would happen so quickly! -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:52    Quote You want me to spend hours researching and giving you *my opinion* on these issues. Priceless. You have to research for hours in order to give us your opinion.  Can you tell us exactly who you have to consult in order to receive your opinion? Beautiful. -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:56    Quote Blipey...bite me.  You're nuts, you know that?  You've left so many posts on my blog, I'm starting to worry about you.  Seriously.  Do actors have that much spare time on their hands?? You do realize why I leave you lots of messages?  Might it not be that you have shown you won;t publish comments with actual content?  So, really what's the point of trying to provide content? As to the spare time issue, something to consider: Quote blipey Posts: 366 Joined: June 2006 Quote Ftk Posts: 427 Joined: Mar. 2007 Got anything better?  Or is this the best avoidance ya got? -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,13:59    Dave...one last time, luv.  I will get back with you this weekend.   Oh, and Blipey, please, please refrain from your endless buzzing at my blog. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,14:00    Quote (Ftk @ June 28 2007,13:59) Dave...one last time, luv.  I will get back with you this weekend.   Oh, and Blipey, please, please refrain from your endless buzzing at my blog. Please, please refrain from coming back here unless you plan on answering some questions. Carry on. -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,14:00    Quote (blipey @ June 28 2007,13:56)   Quote Blipey...bite me.  You're nuts, you know that?  You've left so many posts on my blog, I'm starting to worry about you.  Seriously.  Do actors have that much spare time on their hands?? [snip] As to the spare time issue, something to consider:   Quote blipey Posts: 366 Joined: June 2006   Quote Ftk Posts: 427 Joined: Mar. 2007 Got anything better?  Or is this the best avoidance ya got? Ten points for Blipey.   -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:15    Wow, I'm full of BS now? Who knew! Thanks FTK. I see that in your world being (at least relatively) polite, sticking up for someone when they were wronged (remember who complained about that photo) and trying to engage someone on the issues deserves having one's honesty questioned. I'm far from perfect, let's be blunt about that, but I don't think that asking you to support a simple claim that YOU made of your own free will is in any way hostile or unpleasant, and it certainly isn't deserving of being told I am full of BS. How very....what's the word I'm looking for....christian of you. Louis P.S. Oh FYI: Respect for ID creationists? Depends. If they are merely stupid/mislead/mistaken/apathetic/uninformed (which all of us are to some degree and on some occasions)  I have no problem with them. Dishonest is a different matter. I wonder FTK, is the benefit of the doubt that I have given you misplaced? Are you a dishonest creationist? I'd hate to think this was the case, especially after you keep claiming to be so "persecuted", because you see I think dishonest people should be confronted by their dishonesty. In fact you could say I'm pretty merciless about it. Prove me wrong FTK, answer the question. It is, like Albatrossity says, a question you have been asked many times and avoided equally many times. I'm beginning to think you cannot support it and are merely lying about being able to do so. Are you a liar FTK? Are YOU in fact full of BS, not I? -------------- Bye.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:26    Quote Blipey...bite me.  You're nuts, you know that?  You've left so many posts on my blog, I'm starting to worry about you.  Seriously.  Do actors have that much spare time on their hands?? Just to gratuitously rub it in: FTK: 4.59 posts per day Blipey: .97 posts per day Glass houses, stones, all that. I didn't know mothers had that much spare time on their hands. (PS: Yes, yes, I know, 5.85. Shut up, that's why. ) -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:31    Darn, I was hoping that the math might pass her up.  But, now that you're showing it to her...well, okay, that's funny as well. -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:35    Ah the "spare time" insult! As if by posting here people are some how less successful in real life by virtue of wasting their time. I always think this has vastly more to say about the insulter than the insultee. Anyway, even if I were going to stoop to the barrel scraping arse end of my invective repertoire and use this vignette of vitriol, I wouldn't be so butt-quakingly, mind numbingly STUPID as to use it against someone who posted less than I did over a greater period of time. Momma always said stupid is as stupid does. Louis P.S. I think that since FTK is free to lob insults at people who've been polite to her (*almost* exclusively, I'm going for my merit badge dontcherknow) I reckon it's open season on her question avoiding booty. -------------- Bye.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:37    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 28 2007,15:26) (PS: Yes, yes, I know, 5.85. Shut up, that's why. :angry: ) TARDEN CHATTERBOX!!! HAR HAR HAR. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Paul Flocken Posts: 290 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:38    Only .97posts/day?  Well Blipey did have to make that trip to Texas to stare down DaveTard.  That must have been what slowed him down. -------------- "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:38    Quote (blipey @ June 28 2007,15:31) Darn, I was hoping that the math might pass her up.  But, now that you're showing it to her...well, okay, that's funny as well. Uh oh. I didn't ruin another joke you were setting up, did I? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:40    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 28 2007,15:37) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 28 2007,15:26) (PS: Yes, yes, I know, 5.85. Shut up, that's why. ) TARDEN CHATTERBOX!!! HAR HAR HAR. RITCHARD IS JEST JELOUS BECASUE I HAVE A BIG MANLEY 5.85 COMPARD TO HIS WIMPIE GIRLISH 3.66. RAAAAAAAAR!!!!! -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:43    Quote Ah the "spare time" insult! It deserves a name of its own: argumentum ad leisurum? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:47    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 28 2007,15:40) Quote (Richardthughes @ June 28 2007,15:37)   Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 28 2007,15:26) (PS: Yes, yes, I know, 5.85. Shut up, that's why. :angry: ) TARDEN CHATTERBOX!!! HAR HAR HAR. RITCHARD IS JEST JELOUS BECASUE I HAVE A BIG MANLEY 5.85 COMPARD TO HIS WIMPIE GIRLISH 3.66. RAAAAAAAAR!!!!! :angry: IF YOU REMOVE HOMO ELISTIST WORDS THEN MINE ARE BIGGER. YOU JUST PAD YOURS WITH HOMO-CHATTER. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,15:47    Arden, I'd say "Argumentum ad inability to conceive of time management skills greater than one's own and project like a motherfucker" is more accurate, but 'tis a tad wordy. Louis -------------- Bye.

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