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  Topic: Presidential Politics & Antievolution, Tracking the issue< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2008,19:30   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 13 2008,23:54)
{snip}

The way forward is not a cultish worship of Most Holy Ronald. The way forward for the GOP is to understand why young, passionate, educated people are fleeing the GOP like it's a chemical fire. If you look at the demographic trends, a party that primarily appeals to the old, white, southern, rural, and uneducated is a party that is F*$%ed.

I always find this fascinating in that I completely fail to understand the Republican mindset.  On a completely academic level I get it, but I really don't understand it in a personally relevant way.

Republicans (at least the base) are socially conservative and philosophically conservative.  They are reactionary, not progressive.  They are the party of inertia, not of change.  IMO, they are afraid of change; they like the status quo more than they would ever back change of any kind.

This is closely related to the GOP Base's opinion of and behavior toward academia--a group of people who's very purpose in life is to seek out the new.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2008,20:31   

Quote (blipey @ Nov. 15 2008,19:30)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 13 2008,23:54)
{snip}

The way forward is not a cultish worship of Most Holy Ronald. The way forward for the GOP is to understand why young, passionate, educated people are fleeing the GOP like it's a chemical fire. If you look at the demographic trends, a party that primarily appeals to the old, white, southern, rural, and uneducated is a party that is F*$%ed.

I always find this fascinating in that I completely fail to understand the Republican mindset.  On a completely academic level I get it, but I really don't understand it in a personally relevant way.

Republicans (at least the base) are socially conservative and philosophically conservative.  They are reactionary, not progressive.  They are the party of inertia, not of change.  IMO, they are afraid of change; they like the status quo more than they would ever back change of any kind.

This is closely related to the GOP Base's opinion of and behavior toward academia--a group of people who's very purpose in life is to seek out the new.

There was an interesting article in the NY Times a few days back, comparing the current Republican defeat with the situation of the Tories in the UK a while back. One suggestion for the Repubs from the article - "they had to look as if they actually liked the country they sought to govern, rather than wishing they could turn back time."

Not likely to happen anytime soon...

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,12:46   

I've pretty much gone cold turkey on politics since the election, but this report caught my eye. If true, Obama is off to a poor start.

Excerpt:
Quote
But Mr. Obama's decision to use complete sentences in his public pronouncements carries with it certain risks, since after the last eight years many Americans may find his odd speaking style jarring.

According to presidential historian Davis Logsdon of the University of Minnesota, some Americans might find it "alienating" to have a President who speaks English as if it were his first language.

"Every time Obama opens his mouth, his subjects and verbs are in agreement," says Mr. Logsdon.  "If he keeps it up, he is running the risk of sounding like an elitist."


--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,12:59   

Quote

For his part, Mr. Bush took few questions from reporters today, saying that he had to return to the Oval Office to order random airstrikes over Belgium.


We'd certainly have the advantage of surprise.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
dheddle



Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,13:00   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Nov. 18 2008,12:46)
I've pretty much gone cold turkey on politics since the election, but this report caught my eye. If true, Obama is off to a poor start.

Excerpt:
   
Quote
But Mr. Obama's decision to use complete sentences in his public pronouncements carries with it certain risks, since after the last eight years many Americans may find his odd speaking style jarring.

According to presidential historian Davis Logsdon of the University of Minnesota, some Americans might find it "alienating" to have a President who speaks English as if it were his first language.

"Every time Obama opens his mouth, his subjects and verbs are in agreement," says Mr. Logsdon.  "If he keeps it up, he is running the risk of sounding like an elitist."

Oh, I think there's nothing to worry about.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,14:36   

Heddle - You, my man, have this to worry about.

PalinSpeak

Remember:  Palin is to talkin' what Denyse is to writin', also, she will be presidin' in that their too.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,14:49   

David,

At least Obama was cognizant that he was having difficulty getting the right words together in that particular case. Self-awareness hasn't been one of the things either Bush or Palin has been cursed with. And I wouldn't mind seeing an ethological analysis of a large ensemble of speaking opportunities from those three. I'd bet that Obama's proportion of complete, grammatically correct sentences would be far and away higher than for either Bush or Palin. He might even beat the added proportions for Bush and Palin.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Henry J



Posts: 5787
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,14:54   

Well sure, but can he see Russia from an island in his state of residence? Hmmm? ;)

  
Sealawr



Posts: 54
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,15:57   

Quote
Well sure, but can he see Russia from an island in his state of residence? Hmmm?


Well, he can see Canada.  That, at least, would be useful when Denyse "rears her head and comes into the air space of the United States of America."  

He could be a busy man.

--------------
DS: "The explantory filter is as robust as the data that is used with it."
David Klinghoffer: ""I'm an IDiot"

  
Henry J



Posts: 5787
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,16:08   

Quote
Well, he can see Canada.

Not from Illinois. ;)

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 18 2008,21:36   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Nov. 18 2008,22:49)
David,

At least Obama was cognizant that he was having difficulty getting the right words together in that particular case. Self-awareness hasn't been one of the things either Bush or Palin has been cursed with. And I wouldn't mind seeing an ethological analysis of a large ensemble of speaking opportunities from those three. I'd bet that Obama's proportion of complete, grammatically correct sentences would be far and away higher than for either Bush or Palin. He might even beat the added proportions for Bush and Palin.

Yeah.

Somehow I think there might be something in the 'sounding like' an elitist thing.

To anyone with a half decent languages education having someone as eloquent as Jacques Chirac (giggle) in the White house is going to be a minty fresh taste burst for the ears.

However Caribou Barbie and ex-Pres. Shrub were cynically selected and very carefully constructed personae/masks intended for mass consumption by an equally carefully constructed great unwashed thanks to free as it has turned out  unlimited revolving Regan/Thatcher 'credit', 24 hour 'news', actually party propaganda and an education system where any test for actual reality based truth aka 'the scientific method' or *shriek* 'Darwinism" has been etoilated.

They 'sound like' ....erm very plain low grade no name carnival bubble gum incomparison.

Could you get anymore elitist than either of them?

Groomed for power and fed their lines from an early age they are as close as you will get to a monarchy in the so called republic.

Heck self awareness is the enemy, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT!

Bush was nothing if not the consummate and perfect politician for his masters. Using a mixture of hokey god talk and 'no fat yogurt' magical social reality his internal voices instinctively knew how not to spook the heard(sic).

Using newspeak sound grabs and pumping it through Big Rupert's pipes direct to the speaker in the ceiling while purging the 'public service' apparatus right  from school boards up to the skull and bones club of state, military, education and industry almost ensured no one was going to step out of line lest they feared the torches, pitch forks, and assault rifles outside their ivory towers at midnight.

Those simpletons down in the village can be whipped up anytime into a force of righteous indignation by the PTB, GOP or DEM.

So I suggest that Obama get hisself into the Homer Simpson ....uh 'speakering in public skool' school. Oh and send a couple of (small) oil companies broke but not before trading his and his friends shares in them before they go under, smoke some crack mixed with the best sens., get seriously bent for years on the best sour mash whiskey money can buy, learn to fly a jet in a private air force for the very rich chosen few draft dodgers when there is a war going on on the other side of the world, misunderestimate Haliburton's fuel and cafeteria bill in Iraq then suppress the body count to midnight, hook up with Osama's brothers and sisters on a few building projects in the UAE, play a lot of golf with other princes of the republic, go hunting and fishing with the non combatants running the industrial military complex. Accept Jesus (again).  Bug everyone for crimethink.

....He's doomed isn't he?

"Oranges and lemons
Say the bells of St. Clements
I owe you five farthings
Say the bells of St. Martins
When will you pay me?
Say the bells at Old Bailey
When I grow rich
Say the bells at Shoreditch
When will that be?
Say the bells of Stepney
I'm sure I don't know
Says the great bell of Bow

Here comes a candle to light you to bed
Here comes a chopper to chop off your head

Chip chop chip chop the last man's HEAD!

George Orwell "1984"


Edited lots of times ....for the fun of it.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,08:15   

oh you are so cynical.

<hiccup>

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,08:22   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Nov. 19 2008,16:15)
oh you are so cynical.

<hiccup>

thankyou

<snirk>

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,09:20   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Nov. 19 2008,06:15)
oh you are so cynical.

<hiccup>

Get a room, fella(s).  :angry:

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:18   

shorter Kathleen Parker: 'The religious right is a bunch of tards'.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:24   

http://washingtonmonthly.com/

Quote
Al-Zawahri says in an audio message, which appeared on militant Web sites Wednesday, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X. He calls Obama a "house negro."


Will republicans side with Obama? Or with the terrorists?

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:30   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,12:24)
http://washingtonmonthly.com/

 
Quote
Al-Zawahri says in an audio message, which appeared on militant Web sites Wednesday, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X. He calls Obama a "house negro."


I'm confused. Isn't Obama supposed to be a Muslim terrorist?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:31   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,14:24)
http://washingtonmonthly.com/

Quote
Al-Zawahri says in an audio message, which appeared on militant Web sites Wednesday, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X. He calls Obama a "house negro."


Will republicans side with Obama? Or with the terrorists?

It's a small step from sleeping with an Alaskan Secessionist to Palling Around With Terrorists, so I say the Repubs will side with the terrorists.

What Do I win, now that I got the correct answer?

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:37   

I should have linked to Parker's actual column. She basically says that if the GOP appeals to its base in the future they'll be totally boned.

http://townhall.com/columni....?page=1

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:39   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 19 2008,15:30)
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,12:24)
http://washingtonmonthly.com/

   
Quote
Al-Zawahri says in an audio message, which appeared on militant Web sites Wednesday, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X. He calls Obama a "house negro."


I'm confused. Isn't Obama supposed to be a Muslim terrorist?

He's a crypto-muslim terrorist. So crypto that the other muslim terrorists don't know about him. He's like the Mission Impossible muslim terrorist.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:44   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,12:37)
I should have linked to Parker's actual column. She basically says that if the GOP appeals to its base in the future they'll be totally boned.

http://townhall.com/columni....?page=1

Quote
Simply put: Armband religion is killing the Republican Party.


'Armband religion'. Ouch.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:46   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 19 2008,15:44)
http://townhall.com/columni....?page=1[/quote]
Quote
Simply put: Armband religion is killing the Republican Party.


'Armband religion'. Ouch.

I would hate to be a republican strategist these days. How do you figure out how to appeal to young, smart, unbigoted people, while simultaneously keeping your base of bigoted anti-science people?

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:50   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,12:39)
   
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 19 2008,15:30)
     
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,12:24)
http://washingtonmonthly.com/

         
Quote
Al-Zawahri says in an audio message, which appeared on militant Web sites Wednesday, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X. He calls Obama a "house negro."


I'm confused. Isn't Obama supposed to be a Muslim terrorist?

He's a crypto-muslim terrorist. So crypto that the other muslim terrorists don't know about him. He's like the Mission Impossible muslim terrorist.

Sort of a Manchurian Candidate type thing?

Gotta admit, that *is* pretty cool. Makes McCain look pretty damn boring. Perhaps Obama should pass the time with a game of solitaire?

Oh, speaking of Grampa McCain... (be sure and click on the captions)

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
dheddle



Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:53   

Wait, this just in, we're catching up! The electoral college will not be televised!

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:57   

And the base responds by trying to disown Parker.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,14:59   

Quote (dheddle @ Nov. 19 2008,12:53)
Wait, this just in, we're catching up! The electoral college will not be televised!

So if it's not Missouri anymore, who *is* America's current bellwether state? Colorado? Ohio?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,15:02   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,14:46)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 19 2008,15:44)
http://townhall.com/columni....?page=1

 
Quote
Simply put: Armband religion is killing the Republican Party.


'Armband religion'. Ouch.[/quote]
I would hate to be a republican strategist these days. How do you figure out how to appeal to young, smart, unbigoted people, while simultaneously keeping your base of bigoted anti-science people?

Promise them all the free drugs and sex they want as long as they are willing to relocate to Guantanamo Bay.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,15:06   

Quote (dheddle @ Nov. 19 2008,14:53)
Wait, this just in, we're catching up! The electoral college will not be televised!

Scenes from McCain-Palin 2008 headquarters.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,15:25   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 19 2008,14:30)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,12:24)
http://washingtonmonthly.com/

     
Quote
Al-Zawahri says in an audio message, which appeared on militant Web sites Wednesday, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X. He calls Obama a "house negro."


I'm confused. Isn't Obama supposed to be a Muslim terrorist?

Of course they will side with the terrorists. Is there a scintilla of difference between Al-Zawahiri's rhetoric and Limbaugh's "Barack the Magic Negro" ditty?

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2008,15:29   

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 19 2008,15:37)
I should have linked to Parker's actual column. She basically says that if the GOP appeals to its base in the future they'll be totally boned.

http://townhall.com/columni....?page=1

Quote
One party was brimming with energy, youth and diversity; the other felt like an annual Depends sales meeting.


--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
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