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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
The whole truth



Posts: 979
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2012,01:25   

Gary, for the sake of discussion let's say that insects are intelligent, and that molecules are intelligent, and that atoms are intelligent. And by 'intelligent' I mean that learned people agree that 'intelligent' is the correct word to describe certain features (or actions/processes) of insects, molecules, and atoms. Now, where, how, and when did the intelligence that ended up in those things ultimately originate? Who or what was/is the original cause (the designer-creator) of intelligence and/or anything else? What tests or research can be done to determine who or what is the ultimate original cause, or to determine whether there was/is an intentional original cause?

joe g regularly says that ID is all about origins and in a way he's right, but neither he nor anyone else has ever shown any evidence of the ultimate original cause of anything that he or any other ID pusher claims is caused ('intelligently designed'), nor any evidence of the existence of the ultimate original causer ('the designer'). Unless an ID pusher can show testable, verifiable evidence of the ultimate origin and cause of the universe, life, intelligence, or whatever ID pushers claim was caused ('intelligently designed'), and can show evidence of the original causer (the first 'designer' and the 'cause' of that 'designer'), I don't see what ID has to offer.

One of the things you do is apply the word 'intelligent' or 'intelligence' to particles, organisms, molecules, actions, events, or processes that most scientists would not describe with those words. In a way that doesn't matter because the labels that humans apply to things are just that, labels. What really matters, at least regarding your claims and the claims of other ID pushers, is how things (like so-called 'intelligence') came about.  

For instance, it's one thing to say that humans are 'intelligent' but does that automatically mean that some other 'intelligence' (a designer-god) caused (deliberately created) human intelligence? Is there any testable, verifiable evidence to show that? Is it just a matter of opinion? Should the biased opinions of people who believe in religious fairy tales be taken seriously? If so, which people who believe in which religious fairy tales should be taken seriously?

Does merely labeling something as 'intelligent' automatically make it intelligent (intelligent in the sense that it can consciously think, learn, plan, guess, and/or alter its function, processes, actions, etc.), and does merely labeling something as 'intelligent' show the ultimate origin or cause of that thing or its alleged 'intelligence'? And doesn't it take a lot more than applying a label to something to show that that something was/is intelligently, intentionally designed by some designer-god?

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
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