k.e..
Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007
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| Quote (Joe G @ Jan. 05 2018,04:31) | | Quote (k.e.. @ Jan. 04 2018,20:15) | | Quote (Joe G @ Jan. 05 2018,03:29) | keiths continues to puke all over himself when it comes to nested hierarchies. And even though it has been proven that Doug Theobald is totally wrong keiths continues to reference him on nested hierarchies. Theobald wrongly spews:
| Quote | | The only known processes that specifically generate unique, nested, hierarchical patterns are branching evolutionary processes. |
WRONG! Linnaean Taxonomy is an objective nested hierarchy and it doesn't have anything to do with branching evolutionary processes. Corporations can be placed in objective nested hierarchies and again they have nothing to do with branching evolutionary processes. The US Army is a nested hierarchy and it too has nothing to do with branching evolutionary processes.
Clearly Theobald is ignorant of nested hierarchies. He goes on to spew:
| Quote | | It would be very problematic if many species were found that combined characteristics of different nested groupings |
Umm, TRANSITIONAL FORMs have combined characteristics of different nested groups, Dougy. And your position expects numerous transitional forms.
But Doug's biggest mistake was saying that phylogenies form a nested hierarchy- they don't as explained in the Knox paper- “The use of hierarchies as organizational models in systematics”, Biological Journal of the Linnaean Society, 63: 1–49, 1998.
And for fuck's sake even Darwin knew that if you tried to include all of the alleged transitional forms you couldn't form distinguished groups:
| Quote | | Extinction has only defined the groups: it has by no means made them; for if every form which has ever lived on this earth were suddenly to reappear, though it would be quite impossible to give definitions by which each group could be distinguished, still a natural classification, or at least a natural arrangement, would be possible.- Charles Darwin chapter 14 |
Nested hierarchies require distinct and distinguished groups- again see Linnaean Taxonomy. AND nested hierarchies are artificial constructs.
So only by cherry picking would Common Descent yield a nested hierarchy.
And I understand why the losers here don't want to discuss it.
Zachriel, Alan Fox and John Harshman are also totally ignorant when it comes to nested hierarchies. Now I know why I was banned from the skeptical zone- so I couldn't refute their nonsense to their faces. This way they can continue to ignore reality and prattle on like a bunch of ignoramuses.
Sad, really. Here is another hint from the Knox paper:
| Quote | | Regardless of what is eventually learned about the evolution of Clarkia/Heterogaura, the complex nature of evolutionary processes yields patterns that are more complex than can be represented by the simple hierarchical models of either monophyletic systematization or Linnaean classification. |
Notice the either or at the end? Only Linnaean classification is the objective nested hierarchy with respect to biology. And what does UC Berkley say about Linnaean classification?:
| Quote | | Most of us are accustomed to the Linnaean system of classification that assigns every organism a kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species, which, among other possibilities, has the handy mnemonic King Philip Came Over For Good Soup. This system was created long before scientists understood that organisms evolved. Because the Linnaean system is not based on evolution, most biologists are switching to a classification system that reflects the organisms' evolutionary history. |
and
| Quote | | *The standard system of classification in which every organism is assigned a kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species. This system groups organisms into ever smaller and smaller groups (like a series of boxes within boxes, called a nested hierarchy). |
It was based on a common design scheme.
Davey's ignorant call of "special pleading" is just its cowardice. Davey will never be able to actually make a valid case for it. And I am more than OK with that.
My Challenge to Davey still stands- I will gladly debate him on a neutral forum about nested hierarchies. And then have the readers vote on who won |
You haven't been banned from here Joe this is as neutral as it gets.
All your "debating" is just special pleading.
Your argument is insufficient to convince anyone. Debating that is not only a waste of time it will not change the fact that PubMed has nothing to support your argument.
If you want to meet up for a beer book a ticket to Baghdad and you can show me where TPTB ran their failed experiment and fucked you up. |
LoL! If facts aren't enough to convince anyone then fuck them. If proof that what Theobald says is flat-out wrong isn't enough to convince anyone then fuck them.
If the people who aren't convinced by those facts and proof cannot actually make a coherent argument against my post, then fuck them- they aren't worth the time. |
Special Pleading
| Quote | A person accepts a certain set of criteria for judging something, and applies this in a way appearing consistent and completely exhaustive. Said person finds themselves somehow restricted by their own criteria, and declares their own case "special" without any real justification and excludes themselves from their own principles to make their case.
This is a fallacy because they are claiming that they are exempt from certain principles or standards, yet they provide no good reason for their exemption. A real exception would either be easily justifiable or apparent in the conditions they make in the first place, such as "these standards apply to x, y, and z because of a, b and c" and people can then agree with this and the reasoning. Simply demanding that an exception be made is not enough.
The fallacy is circular in structure. The only reason that example X is not disproven by evidence Y is because example X is disproven by evidence Y. |
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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin
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