someotherguy
Posts: 398
Joined: Aug. 2006
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| Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 03 2008,18:22) | | Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 03 2008,19:02) | | I've discussed *the point*, which is moral relativism and the fact that atheists have no moral base. Their morality is based on evolutionary change over billions of years. That is why bestiality cannot be deemed *immoral* by an atheist. |
Ftk: All you've done is define "morality" such that your conclusion must be true. To whit: "morals" for you are BY DEFINITION universal, absolute, unchanging, and God-given. Then, of course, atheists must BY DEFINITION lack a moral base, and by implication lack morality.
But here is the definition my (online) dictionary produces:
| Quote | moral |?môr?l; ?mär-|
adjective
concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character : the moral dimensions of medical intervention | a moral judgment.
• concerned with or adhering to the code of interpersonal behavior that is considered right or acceptable in a particular society : an individual's ambitions may get out of step with the general moral code.
• holding or manifesting high principles for proper conduct : he is a caring, efficient, moral man.
• derived from or based on ethical principles or a sense of these : the moral obligation of society to do something about the inner city's problems.
• [ attrib. ] examining the nature of ethics and the foundations of good and bad character and conduct : moral philosophers.
noun
1 a lesson, esp. one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience : the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has.
2 ( morals) a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do : the corruption of public morals.
• standards of behavior that are considered good or acceptable : they believe addicts have no morals and cannot be trusted. |
That's it. You notice the complete absence of "universal," "absolute," "unchanging," and "God-given."
Most atheists, agnostics, and others who don't share your religious predelictions remain interested in a code of interpersonal behavior, proper conduct, ethical principles, standards of behavior and so on. It is only by insisting upon your own, idiosyncratic and inherently religious definition that you can argue that they are not. Indeed, IMHO, they are more likely to have given the ethical questions and dilemmas with which they are confronted real thought, because canned, absolutist, and ultimately authoritarian solutions to those dilemmas are not of interest to them. |
Exactly what I said--only a lot better! :D
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Evolander in training
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