Stephen Elliott
Posts: 1776
Joined: Oct. 2005
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| Quote (IanBrown_101 @ July 06 2007,12:42) | Irrespective of whether you think the poverty line is poverty or not, did the figures rise, yes/no?
If yes, is this a good or bad thing?
Did the economy suffer under Thatcher, yes/no?
Did Thatcher crush the powers of unions, yes/no?
If yes is this a good or bad thing?
Did Thatcher completely destroy what was left of the british primary (eg mining, farming etc.) economy, yes/no?
(by destroy I mean remove it as a truely competative sector)
Did she destroy the British secondary economy, yes/no?
Tally up the results, if you have more yeses than nos what does this tell you? |
I am fairly sure that you could find poverty figures that rose during Thatcher's premiership. Wether that is a good or bad thing is irelevant unless you can come to a concrete statement about what poverty is. Using the 50% average income scale could mean that every single person in the UK could have rising living standards while figures show poverty rising. I consider that absurd.
I don't think that the economy suffered because of Thatcher. In 1976 (IIRC) Britain had to be bailed out by the IMF, I don't recal that happening under Thatcher.
Thatcher did crush union power (or at least seriously reduced it). Good or bad thing? Both. Union power needed to be reduced but I think she went too far.
Did thatcher destroy any part of the economy? I am uncertain but tend to believe that she just stoped UK tax money bailing out failing uncompetitive industries. Good or bad thing? Not sure. It may have been less costly to continue to subsidise/protect the mining industry (for example) than to throw open the doors to international competition, at least in the short term. In the longer term it may well have been a good thing. Coming from Wigan I had many friends in the mining industry and it was certainly costly to them in the imediate aftermath of mine closures, however they are all financialy better off now and in far less stessfull jobs. This may be completely different in the Welsh valleys however where an entire town could depend upon coal mining.
So in conclusion, I believe that on the whole Britain improved in the 80s for most people.
You can't just take the Thatcher years in isolation. Look at what proceeded it. In the 70s we had shortages in shops and power cuts depriving people of warmth and light and had to have the IMF bail out a completely messed up economy.
Your description as "milk snatcher" is also...iluminating. It is an obvious atempt to demonise. She did not "snatch" milk at all. She stopped taking money from tax-payers to subsidise it. Good or bad thing? Bad. I do not mind subsidising a childs diet. Just don't make it sound as though she stole the milk when that is not the case.
Why are you so resistant to put a pactical easy to measure description on poverty? I "bang on" about it because you keep stating that poverty increased where my experience differs from that claim.
In the 60s my nuclear family lived in my mothers parents house. 6 people living in a 3 bedroom small terrace in Bootle, Liverpool. In winter we had overcoats on the bed to keep us warm and awoke to a cold house until the coal fire was lit. The floor was covered in lino with the odd rug to keep the chill off and we had no motor transport. Food was shopped for daily as we had no refigerator and nothing was wasted as we would eat left-overs as something called scouse. Washing was done by hand and dried in front of the fire or in the yard.
In the 70s my nuclear family (4 of us) lived in a 3 bedroom house. We had storage heating and a gas fire. We had a car, refrigeration and a washing machine. My mother would go to every shop in town to save a penny on a product. We had shortages in the shops sometimes and had blackouts. Fod could be shopped for 2 or 3 times a week. We had carpetting throughout most of the house.
In the 80s we had no shortages of life depending products. Food was plentifull(ish) and the whole house had fited carpets. Washing and drying could be done by machine. Almost every adult had a car.
Yet you seem to be trying to tell me that I was sinking into poverty. Maybe I missunderstand. I hope so. Well not me specifically but I am an average UK citizen and so are most people that I know.
| Quote (JohnW Posted on July 06 2007 @ 11:07) | | Quote |
Clasing poverty as earning less than half the average income is crazy. By that criteria it would be damn near impossible to be rid of poverty. |
Why? |
Ask your question better and I will answer. Do you expect me to give an explanatory answer to the question "Why?" Be clearer. Your question could mean 2 things. If it was the first part I have already explained in the post that you queried.
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