Ftk
Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007
|
| Quote | | Wow, I just got back from camping in Wyoming (pictures to be uploaded later), where we saw lots of neat critters, including moose. I found myself wondering how Noah handled (and fed!) those quys on the Ark. |
I don’t think it’s as miraculous an event as one might think, but hell will freeze over before I discuss that one further. I’ll tell ya one thing....it would be one heck of a lot easier to come up with an explanation for the Noah scenario that to believe that a freakin’ blob is responsible for everything we observe in nature today.
| Quote | | What is the difference between what you say in this comment, and what a theistic evolutionist would say? |
You must have linked to the wrong comment...I don’t see anything in that post that has anything to do with what a TE might say.
| Quote | | And if you get time, please let us know some examples of unwarranted "speculation" that you found in that college-level intro biology book. |
I wouldn’t even know where to begin. On second thought, I’ve mentioned one of them on this thread already. The picture series of a little microbe evolving on it’s own...get real.
| Quote | I consider myself to be open minded just as you consider yourself to be. So, let's just leave it that, shall we?
At the risk of derailing this thread (again) into a discussion of religion, I think a couple of things need to be pointed out. Please understand, FtK, I am NOT asking you to discuss religion; I AM asking you to reflect on why nobody here (except yourself) considers you to be "open-minded".
Please contrast how you approach issues of religion and science. In your religious views, you apparently believe, based on what you have heard from authority figures (unless, of course, you are fluent in Aramaic, Hebrew, Geek and other languages not including Portuguese) several totally illogical and unsupported things. Those would include the notion of a creator God who made humans and then got very irritated when they disobeyed his commands. To show his irritation, He did many harsh things not only to the sinners but to all of their descendants. But to prove His benevolence, He decided to send himself (aka his son) to tortured and killed in order for him to be able to forgive the descendants (who were not guilty of the original crime). Back off a bit from that stuff and ask yourself
1) Is that logical? |
I’m not so sure that God “did many harsh things” to “show his irritation” when “people disobeyed his commands” in the way that you seem to believe it panned out. Free will exists, and though most of us inherently know good from evil, we are tempted on a daily basis to fuck up. Regardless of whether you believe this is due to evolutionary causes or free will provided by the Creator, it’s a fact. We obviously need rules given as a reminder as to how we should behave. Judges, courts, laws, etc. exist even today so I don’t know why it is so odd to think that God would not provide a set of laws and guidelines to follow that would aid in leading a productive life. Obviously, the mistakes that we make even today affect us and our descendants, and it seems clear that God pointed this out several times to the people of Israel...you fuck up, your actions are going to affect others besides yourself.
Yes, God sent His son to be tortured and killed for the sins of all believers. We all sin irregardless of whether we were in the garden or not. I think of God as a father figure, and any loving father would lay down his life for his child. I’m not sure there is a greater love than that which a parent has for their child. This ultimate sacrifice is something that on a human level we can understand and appreciate. Perhaps that is why God chose this particular scenario.
We can certainly question whether the creator should have come up with a more “logical” plan, but if there is an ultimate Creator and we are allowed the free will to lead our lives as we see fit, it wouldn’t matter what His ultimate plan entailed....there would always be those who would believe it to be illogical, unfair, or insane.
And, please don’t think for even one second that I haven’t considered all of these issues before.
| Quote | | 2) What is the factual and verifiable evidence for that story? |
Mercy....where on earth would I start. I guess the problem for me is that after searching endlessly for evidence for and against this “story”, I simply can’t reject it because the evidence that supports scripture is stronger than the arguments against it. If you want me to share that evidence, you’re in for a very long ride. It would also mean that I would have to further address my views about religion (which is something you have stated several times you do not want to discuss). If you want me to point you to several good books on the topic, let me know privately. I won’t hold my breath waiting for that to occur.
| Quote | | Contrast that to your attitude about science. You refuse to accept the positions of authority figures, despite the reality that their positions are backed by both logic and factual, verifiable evidence. |
Dave, there is no “logical, factual, and verifiable evidence” for the blob story. You can give me examples of simple microevolutionary changes for eternity, but that doesn’t give me verifiable evidence for a blob being accountable for the information and complexity we observe in nature today.
| Quote | | Is this double standard evidence for "open-mindedness"? How can you apply two entirely different approaches to these areas, and retain any credibility when you claim to be open-minded??? |
I guess I could ask you the same thing.
| Quote | | All we are asking for is consistency. If you want to be skeptical, be skeptical in all arenas. |
Back atcha again. You’re certainly skeptical about religious beliefs while admitting you don’t have much background on the topic. Yet, you unquestioningly accept that all aspects of the ToE are supported by logical, factual, and verifiable evidence.
BTW, I question religious claims in the same way I question scientific claims. I took a very in-depth look at biblical history with a group about 5 years ago and questioned my instructors to no end.
| Quote | | NB - Please don't use this as a jumping off point to discuss your religious beliefs. |
Goodness no, I wouldn’t do that. I certainly wouldn’t want to have to make you consider how close minded you are about matters that don’t pertain to science. In other words... Dude, do you need a mirror?
--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero
|
