Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Posted: Sep. 11 2007,14:34

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Genetic Entropy IS THE LOSS OF INFORMATION!!!!!

OH REALLY????!!!1???

Glad I wasn't drinking when I read that. Good on you, Bob-Oh.

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"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,15:07

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We might know a shit lot more from the content of the signal (message).

Actually, no. The SETI folks have even issued a FAQ-type statement that they are looking for a narrowband signal, and that they are not looking at "content" at all.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Albatrossity2

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,15:09

More tard from the Genetic Entropy discussion. Bornagain77, whose neurological entropy must be approaching staggering levels, opines

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I would like to comment, since I support the �strong� ID position of later implementation of information, that the front loaded position, while somewhat tenable, is by no means set in stone for the ID theory.

By no means, indeed! If, in fact, it turns out to be inviable, then they can have another bogus "strong" prediction that is just as consistent with the think-poof model that is ID today. I'm thinking of something more sexy than Genetic Entropy, perhaps, say, Genomic Transubstantiation. Or perhaps Metabolomic Infundibular Liquefaction...

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,15:15

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 11 2007,15:07)

Quote

We might know a shit lot more from the content of the signal (message).

Actually, no. The SETI folks have even issued a FAQ-type statement that they are looking for a narrowband signal, and that they are not looking at "content" at all.

That's not to say there wouldn't be one in there?

If you're going to shout across the cosmos, you might say more than "Hey!"

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Erasmus, FCD

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,15:24

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If you're going to shout across the cosmos, you might say more than "Hey!"

perhaps... "Have you any grey poupon?"

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You're obviously illiterate as hell.�Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

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carlsonjok

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,15:27

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 11 2007,15:15)

If you're going to shout across the cosmos, you might say more than "Hey!"

In contrast to what? �Beeming out cheesy old reruns? Can you imagine what that would lead to?

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. �We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,15:31

IIRC, the SETI FAQ discusses how signal content is lost based on distance and power, and that by only looking for the narrowband carrier, they can expand their search radius for signals to something like 3000 light years. If they limited their search to signals to those where content could be recovered, the search radius would be a fraction of that.

IOW, the odds are that if SETI is successful, it will be because they picked up evidence of a narrowband carrier from a source too distant to extract content from.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Hermagoras

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,15:58

Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 11 2007,15:27)

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 11 2007,15:15)

If you're going to shout across the cosmos, you might say more than "Hey!"

In contrast to what? Beeming out cheesy old reruns? Can you imagine what that would lead to?

"By Grabthar's hammer, by the sons of Worvan, you shall be avenged."

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"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,18:44

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 11 2007,04:07)

In a slurry of new posts over at OW Patrick Demands

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if you would be so kind as to list one major observed instance of unguided Darwinian processes producing more than 2 CCC events or possibly even CSI I'd appreciate it. Please list a major scientific journal or a place where research is reported. Links to Panda's Thumb or Talk Origins don't count.

So it's evidence you want now is it Patrick? Shame you don't demand evidence for your own position really!

Show me the evidence

I've been thinking about his "and no TalkOrigins or Panda's Thumb" all day with a grin. The ID people can only be comfortable in their little sheltered world. In the real world, ID is junk, and TalkOrigins and Panda'sThumb are the places to go to see why.

Arden Chatfield

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,19:42

This is a deep cover troll, right? Right?

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Support Conservapedia

quizzlestick
There's a new wiki and it's going to blow Wikipedia out of the water. Imagine an educational resource like Wikipedia but free of the Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Pro-materialistic bias.
I'm sure WIkipedia is great if you want to learn about "Gangsta Rap", "Gang-banging" or catch up with the latest gossip about Britney Spears, but is that what we want our kids to be learning? Our kids should be learning about scientific facts like ID, and the history of America our Christian founding fathers.
Conservapedia is just the right sort of thing for those of us who are homeschooling. Where else can you find an accurate reference for all of the world's most interesting issues, and be sure that the articles are 100% free of bias, spin and political correctness.
This page explains the fundamental differences between WIkipedia and Conservapedia. I do hope you will join me and submit a few articles. May I suggest that with the author's permission, some articles from this site might be donated to help build Conservapedia?

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IanBrown_101

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,19:47

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 11 2007,23:42)

This is a deep cover troll, right? Right?

Quote

Support Conservapedia

quizzlestick
There's a new wiki and it's going to blow Wikipedia out of the water. Imagine an educational resource like Wikipedia but free of the Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Pro-materialistic bias.
I'm sure WIkipedia is great if you want to learn about "Gangsta Rap", "Gang-banging" or catch up with the latest gossip about Britney Spears, but is that what we want our kids to be learning? Our kids should be learning about scientific facts like ID, and the history of America our Christian founding fathers.
Conservapedia is just the right sort of thing for those of us who are homeschooling. Where else can you find an accurate reference for all of the world's most interesting issues, and be sure that the articles are 100% free of bias, spin and political correctness.
This page explains the fundamental differences between WIkipedia and Conservapedia. I do hope you will join me and submit a few articles. May I suggest that with the author's permission, some articles from this site might be donated to help build Conservapedia?

If it isn't, that's one mentally ill human being.

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You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,19:51

They have money to fund research, hundreds of 'scientists' to do the research, and their own Journal to publish it in, and they still can't get any done.

You have to be pretty dim to still think ID is a scientific revolution.

Reciprocating Bill

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,19:59

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 11 2007,20:51)

They have money to fund research, hundreds of 'scientists' to do the research, and their own Journal to publish it in, and they still can't get any done.

You have to be pretty dim to still think ID is a scientific revolution.

Well, I'm pretty dim, and I STILL don't think ID is a scientific revolution.

So there.

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,20:15

Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 11 2007,12:07)

N.B. I didn't create this. Steve found it over at PZs.

I wonder if he's still cutting his hair with that pocketknife.

Henry J

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Posted: Sep. 11 2007,23:28

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Actually, no. The SETI folks have even issued a FAQ-type statement that they are looking for a narrowband signal, and that they are not looking at "content" at all.

Until they find a signal, anyway - if/when that happens I'd expect then they'd start looking for content.

Henry

djmullen

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,01:01

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 11 2007,15:31)

IIRC, the SETI FAQ discusses how signal content is lost based on distance and power, and that by only looking for the narrowband carrier, they can expand their search radius for signals to something like 3000 light years. If they limited their search to signals to those where content could be recovered, the search radius would be a fraction of that.

IOW, the odds are that if SETI is successful, it will be because they picked up evidence of a narrowband carrier from a source too distant to extract content from.

If SETI finds narrowband carriers, then they've discovered a civilization that's not much more advanced than ours. �

In a standard AM transmitter, the carrier takes one half of the total power transmitted and it is a pure waste of energy. �The receivers beat/mix the sidebands with the carrier to recover the original modulation. �If you can generate a carrier locally, in the receiver, you can beat/mix the sidebands with it and the transmitter can stop transmitting the carrier and save the energy.

Single sideband transmitters and recievers do just that. �The transmitter just transmits one sideband and the receiver generates a signal to mix with it and the original audio pops out.

Presently, the earth is transmitting scads of high powered narrow band carrier signals. �They're called television stations. �That are all scheduled to go to digital modulation in a couple of years and that will be the end of their carrier signals because the digital transmitters don't waste energy transmitting them.

That would leave FM radio stations as just about the only source of carriers that make it through the atmosphere and they won't last much longer. �HD radio is ready to replace them as soon as enough people are equipped to receive them. �The HD signals don't transmit carriers either. �

Then there will only be high powered radars searching for incoming ballistic missiles for alien SETI researchers to hunt for. �Hopefully we'll get rid of the missiles soon and then the radars won't have anything to look for, so they'll be turned off. �What's that - about a 150 year window for a civilization to be easily detectable?

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,01:13

I thought they were looking at lasers as a possible source of emissions? Also, you could hypothetically get a capsule (slow transit, but higher information content?)

(edit)

http://www.seti.org/seti/projects/oseti/

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,02:01

SETI has very little chance of success IMO.

The biggest problem is the inverse square power ratio for radio wave propagation. Yes laser lessens that problem but then you have to know where the receiver is to make use of it. Even then to get a signal to cross galaxies you would need a laser with the same energy output as a small sun ....it would be easier just to use a sun to send that message.

The next problem is time. Keep in mind that those very first VHF TV signals bringing soap commercials to Ma and Pa Alien are a whole 60 light years away from earth. Only next door in terms of cosmic scale. That is like posting a letter to your neighbor by moving it 1 foot per year closer to his letterbox.

The two way round trip to the centre of the universe is 13 billions years roughly, even if the two communicating civilizations were just brains in bottles the whole idea verges on the ridiculous one message may get through but you could write off thinking about sending a reply.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

heddle

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,05:55

ke,

[quote]The two way round trip to the centre of the universe [/blockquote]

Center of the universe!

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Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,06:21

Quote (heddle @ Sep. 12 2007,13:55)

ke,

[quote]The two way round trip to the centre of the universe [/blockquote]

Center of the universe!

Hahahahahahaha

Heddle you could have had a lot more fun with my post that that!!

There is no such place of course, but if there was it would make a perfect home for jesus. He would only be 13/2 (or so) billion light years away from it now.

It appears that RTH might be right about the lasers. If the wiki SETI page is anything to go by. It still doesn't overcome the time problem. Remember those desert island cartoons from Larson ? That probably describes our situation vis a vi the universe.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,06:27

Oh Heddle just noticed your sig ....quite good.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,06:38

Needless to say if SETI were a sucess we would be bombarded with messages....such as "Want Cheap Viagra? Get it on Alpha Centauri".

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Steverino

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,06:46

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 11 2007,20:15)

Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 11 2007,12:07)

N.B. �I didn't create this. �Steve found it over at PZs.

I wonder if he's still cutting his hair with that pocketknife.

Hey, the 80's called!....They want their sweater back!

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,07:00

That sweater was the gear he was wearing June 17th, 2001, for the dust-up at Haverford College in the "Interpreting Evolution" conference held there.

My picture of him does seem to make the rounds.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,07:30

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 12 2007,15:00)

That sweater was the gear he was wearing June 17th, 2001, for the dust-up at Haverford College in the "Interpreting Evolution" conference held there.

My picture of him does seem to make the rounds.

What was he thinking?

"I have nothing to declare sir but my hopeless dress sense" doesn't exactly have a Wildean noteriety about it does it.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,08:35

Quote (k.e @ Sep. 12 2007,07:38)

Needless to say if SETI were a sucess we would be bombarded with messages....such as "Want Cheap Viagra? Get it on Alpha Centauri".

LOL I've never thought of that.

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,08:56

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 12 2007,07:00)

That sweater was the gear he was wearing June 17th, 2001, for the dust-up at Haverford College in the "Interpreting Evolution" conference held there.

My picture of him does seem to make the rounds.

POST, POST, POST, POST!

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,09:03

It is posted. It's the one marked up in LOL fashion and linked in this comment.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Arden Chatfield

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Posted: Sep. 12 2007,09:21

Quote (k.e @ Sep. 12 2007,07:30)

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 12 2007,15:00)

That sweater was the gear he was wearing June 17th, 2001, for the dust-up at Haverford College in the "Interpreting Evolution" conference held there.

My picture of him does seem to make the rounds.

What was he thinking?

"I have nothing to declare sir but my hopeless dress sense" doesn't exactly have a Wildean noteriety about it does it.

I'm no expert on Oscar Wilde, but dear old Oscar would not have liked that sweater.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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