BWE
Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006
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OK, I have to throw my 2cents into that post Lenny,
| Quote | | The problem, once again, is that you are still insisting upon pushing a window between yourself and everything around you. You still filter everything through all of the "authoritative" mental frameworks, constructs and categories that you have imposed upon the world (and they come from you -- no matter where you learned them from, *you* are the one who puts them there, and you are the only one who can take them away). |
-I think what Lenny's trying to say here is that, by asking that kind of a question, you create an artificial worldview. It sounds an awful lot like a condescending "Sit down my young student. You are here to learn." but I can verify the truthiness of the idea. I can't remember before I could meditate very well but I do remember that learning to empty my mind changed my worldview. I don't know how significant it was but it's hard to imagine not meditating in the morning. In fact, I just finished sitting at my shrine for about 20 minutes.  That oughtta get the fundies up, eh?
| Quote | | What you need to do is *remove* that framework. |
-the word "need" may be a little strong there.
| Quote | | Here's an experiment for you to try, Skeptic -- it *may* help teach you how to do that (if indeed you are ready for that), and it will take less time than reading a single book will . . . . |
-ready? How 'bout, "Things look different if you know this little trick. It's a lot harder than it sounds at first but if you're into it, you might get a lot out of it. It's worth a try if you're up for it."
| Quote | | Find a nice quiet spot, and make yourself comfortable. Now, count silently to yourself, to nine. Then do it again. Keep doing that. |
-You really should sit with a straight back (not rigid) and cross-legged. Honest, it makes it easier. Also, the nine thing will drive you crazy if you start right off with that. An easier way to warm up to it is just to think about your breath. Be conscious of each inhale and exhale. Sounds easy but your mind will drift. Don't worry, just get back to the focus once you notice. After a while (1/2 hour a day for 7-14 days?) you will be able to see the things your mind is doing and it gets a little easier to tame it.
| Quote | | Sounds simple, huh? But, as you will see, it is not. Your mind will continually intrude with all sorts of thoughts, and you will invariably find yourself not paying attention to what you are doing, and counting "eleven . . . twelve . . . thirteen". Every time that happens, stop, remind yourself what you are doing, then do it again. |
-Like I said, the nine thing will be nearly impossible for you. Shame on you Lenny.
| Quote | What you are learning to do by this exercise is to quiet your mind, to discipline it, and to focus it where you want to focus it.
It may take a long time. With practice, though, you will learn how to quiet your mind, and how to prevent your mind from interfering with your experiences by filtering everything through your mental framework. At that point, you will begin to enter a nonverbal state of awareness in which descriptive words are not only unnecessary, but actually get in the way. You will learn to look at things and experience them directly, without any need to intellectually categorize or pigeonhole them. The Chinese refer to this state as "tathata", or "of itself so". For the first time, you will be experiencing reality directly, instead of mediating it through all your mental filters. It will be a jarring experience for you. |
-That last bit is not mumbo jumbo. It's true. We don't live in the present. We live in our constructs. It's very hard to explain this but we make a little movie of the world and see what we look for rather than what is there. However, meditation can alert you to this dilemma but, unless you go seriously all out, you still live that way. It's just that you can catch your most eggregious constructs. Maybe you could call it expectations.
| Quote | Once you are regularly able to produce this nonverbal state of awareness (and you will know it once you've experienced it), then the lesson turns into extending this period of awareness. With practice, you will be able to enter this state at will, for as long as you like. While in it, you will be able to look at your surroundings and experience them directly -- a far far more vivid experience than any description can be. (Being in Yellowstone is far far more exciting than any photograph of Yellowstone ever could be.)
With more practice, you will be able to see directly, for yourself, that everything around you forms a vast interconnecting web, where everything both causes and is caused by everything else. |
-That's not how I would describe it exactly.
| Quote | Some people refer to that vast interconnecting web of reality as "Tao". Some refer to it as "Brahma".
You, I expect, would refer to it as "God".
Whaddya say, Skeptic? Are you ready to throw away your descriptive Book and experience "God" for yourself . . . ? |
-It's definitely worth it but don't expect miracles.
Stephen Elliot,
Don't go longer than 15-25 minutes at a go at first. You will just get frustrated. Also, note my comment about the counting to nine technique.
I highly recommend doing it. Start with watching your breath though. It's always there and you don't have to think to make it go. Just watch it. When you realize that you've gone off into next week's rugby match, just go back to watching your breath. You really will know it when you get there. It's really different.
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Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far
The Daily Wingnut
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