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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > The Guts/Nelson Alonso Thread

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olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:51    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,15:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Oh leave him alone, guys.  He can't give any answers.  Not qualified. -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:53    Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50) Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose. I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:54    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,15:46) Quote What predictions have been made, on the basis of ID principles, that allowed experimental testing, and for which the results of those experiments supported ID? There are still problematic qualifiers here. Not all predictions lead to actual experiments, there are problems with funding, or something else fundamental. Even post dictions are valid, in which case the experiment or discovery was already made. Indeed they are problematic, but only because ID is problematic. There is no shortage of examples in lots of scientific arenas  where iconoclastic ideas were proposed, scoffed at, and then vindicated at the Nobel Prize level a decade or so later. Here are a few from Biology. Prions. Chemiosmosis. Viruses that cause cancer. Reverse transcriptase. How did that happen? Predictive hypotheses, experiments, replication by other scientists. You know, just science at work, per usual. You can't provide a single example of a single predictive hypothesis and successful experiment made on the basis of ID principles, more than a decade after the notion was first proposed. Not one. But you sure can dance. Bye -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

dnmlthr Posts: 565 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:55    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:53) Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50) Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose. I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum. If that really was the case you could have shut us all up a long time ago. Thanks for playing. -------------- Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:56    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,16:46) Quote What predictions have been made, on the basis of ID principles, that allowed experimental testing, and for which the results of those experiments supported ID? There are still problematic qualifiers here. Not all predictions lead to actual experiments, there are problems with funding, or something else fundamental. Even post dictions are valid, in which case the experiment or discovery was already made. Some predictions do lead to actual experiments. ID has certainly had funding for other activities. Postdiction can be interesting. But prediction is more powerful. So, what predictions have been made, on the basis of ID principles, that allowed experimental testing, and for which the results of those experiments supported ID? That's a valid question, Guts. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:56    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 06 2008,15:45) Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,15:33)   Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,15:32)   Quote So it's ID, and a Journal, but not an ID Journal Nope, they wanted it to be more general than just ID. A second ago you knew nothing about it! I call troll pretending to be Guts. Apparently this troll is indeed the real Gutless. link Guts' admission of trolling has just disappeared from TT.  Classy guy! -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:57    Quote You can't provide a single example of a single predictive hypothesis and successful experiment made on the basis of ID principles, more than a decade after the notion was first proposed. Not one. But you sure can dance. Im trying to tease our your fundmental misunderstanding of science. After admitting your problem, comes healing.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:59    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, and there's nothing ID can explain that evolution can't. Now leave me alone, dumbass!" -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,15:59    Interesting thread. Seems it has a purpose - and that is not about ID. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:01    Quote Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, and there's nothing ID can explain that evolution can't. Now leave me alone, dumbass!" It's a lot more complex than that. Bayes Theorem seems to imply that there is no difference between prediction and accommodation, because the conditional probabilities used in Bayes Theorem are temporally neutral.  There have been attempts to build such a distinction into a Bayesian epistemology, but the more common move among Bayesians is to deny the importance of the distinction.  For example, Einstein's Relativity Theory got support from the fact that it correctly implied the precession of the perihelion of Mercury, though that information was known long before Einstein formulated the theory.  I myself am sympathetic to the view that accurate prediction provides more confirmational support than accommodation, but most Bayesians would not agree.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:02    For the record, here's how it looked: Quote #  steve Says: July 6th, 2008 at 4:28 pm Just a heads-up–over at After the Bar Closes, on the Telic Thoughts thread, someone pretending to be 'Guts' is making an ass of himself. So far he's said that we're 'gay', 'projecting', 'ignorant', 'scientifically illiterate', our board is a 'piece of shit'. etc etc etc. If the real Guts is being unfairly maligned by an impersonator, he can contact Wesley Elsberry to put a stop to it. Comment by steve — July 6, 2008 @ 4:28 pm Quote #  Bradford Says: July 6th, 2008 at 4:38 pm steve: Quote    Just a heads-up–over at After the Bar Closes, on the Telic Thoughts thread, someone pretending to be 'Guts' is making an ass of himself. So far he's said that we're 'gay', 'projecting', 'ignorant', 'scientifically illiterate', our board is a 'piece of shit'. etc etc etc. Steve, insulting people is the norm at that site. Many times the objects of hate are people not even posting at AtBC. So 'Guts' is following the maxim "when in Rome do as the Romans do." Comment by Bradford — July 6, 2008 @ 4:38 pm Quote #  Guts Says: July 6th, 2008 at 4:38 pm I'm just having fun trolling your board, much like you guys come here to troll us. Comment by Guts — July 6, 2008 @ 4:38 pm Quote #  steve Says: July 6th, 2008 at 4:44 pm I actually thought you were being impersonated. Mibad. Over and out. Click to Edit Comment by steve — July 6, 2008 @ 4:44 pm But Guts has now disappeared his comment. Hey, Guts, know how you wanted an edit button? Remember what I told you about why you don't get one?

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:03    Because you forgot how to configure it because you're stupid?

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:03    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,14:01) Quote Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, and there's nothing ID can explain that evolution can't. Now leave me alone, dumbass!" It's a lot more complex than that. Bayes Theorem seems to imply that there is no difference between prediction and accommodation, because the conditional probabilities used in Bayes Theorem are temporally neutral.  There have been attempts to build such a distinction into a Bayesian epistemology, but the more common move among Bayesians is to deny the importance of the distinction.  For example, Einstein's Relativity Theory got support from the fact that it correctly implied the precession of the perihelion of Mercury, though that information was known long before Einstein formulated the theory.  I myself am sympathetic to the view that accurate prediction provides more confirmational support than accommodation, but most Bayesians would not agree. Revised shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, but I'm cool with that." -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:04    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,14:03) Because you forgot how to configure it because you're stupid? Many of us have edit buttons, Nelson. You've just demonstrated why newcomers don't get them automatically. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:05    Quote Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, but I'm cool with that." Thats not what I said at all.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:06    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,14:05) Quote Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, but I'm cool with that." Thats not what I said at all. No, because that would have entailed more honesty than you're willing to display here. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:06    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53) Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)   Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose. I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum. So what are the first 10? [strikeout]Pussy[/strikeout] (cuz I am tired of Nelson's faggot talk). Edited so not to abuse the edit function by eliminating a potentially embarassing comment or correct errors. Edited by Dr.GH on July 06 2008,14:13 -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:08    Quote No, because that would have entailed more honesty than you're willing to display here. No it would directly contradict what i believe.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:08    Don't descend to Guts's level.

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:09    lol Steve, maybe you should re-read the beginning pages of these threads where there is insult after insult all directed at TT bloggers. It's a little too late to tell people to take the high ground.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:13    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,14:08)   Quote No, because that would have entailed more honesty than you're willing to display here. No it would directly contradict what i believe. Okay, Nelson. You can't name any ID predictions and yet you seem fine with this. This seems not to bother you at all. Yet you said this:   Quote I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum. Name the dozens. Show us how science is done. Put up or shut up, since you're supposedly the only scientifically literate one here. Quit dodging the questions.   Quote ol Steve, maybe you should re-read the beginning pages of these threads where there is insult after insult all directed at TT bloggers. It's a little too late to tell people to take the high ground. Really?   Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:47) I'm not the one that came here and started a mindless thread to attack my website, if you have something substantive to say against anything write, say it. So far, I only see faggotry, which is pathetic. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:14    Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,16:08) Don't descend to Guts's level. No problem. I don't think any of us can get that low... -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:15    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)   Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)   Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose. I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum. So, what are the first ten? -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:15    Oh, yeah, we definitely insult you guys when you act ridiculous. But we don't have to act as cretinous as you. I've never gone to TT and called it a 'piece of shit', for instance.

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:16    Quote Name the dozens. Show us how science is done. Put up or shut up, since you're supposedly the only scientifically literate one here. Quit dodging the questions. You didn't even understand what I wrote, thats why you can't respond. By the way, I only use insults because thats the language that you all speak here. It's the norm. You guys drew first blood.

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:17    Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,16:15) Oh, yeah, we definitely insult you guys when you act ridiculous. But we don't have to act as cretinous as you. I've never gone to TT and called it a 'piece of shit', for instance. Of course not, because it's not a piece of shit. I never called AE a piece of shit, I called it's board functions. But now I see that many of the more complex functions are hidden from new users, so now I'll AE an asshole for not giving me all the functions.

dnmlthr Posts: 565 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:18    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:16) Quote Name the dozens. Show us how science is done. Put up or shut up, since you're supposedly the only scientifically literate one here. Quit dodging the questions. You didn't even understand what I wrote, thats why you can't respond. By the way, I only use insults because thats the language that you all speak here. It's the norm. You guys drew first blood. Stop whining and show us the predictions that you spoke of earlier. -------------- Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

Guts Posts: 226 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:18    "so now I'll call"

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:18    Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,14:15) Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)     Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)     Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose. I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum. So, what are the first ten? Okay, here's where I think Nelson is now: "I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But it's not important, so I won't name any. Now leave me alone, dumbass!" -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,16:18    Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53) Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50) Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49) I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer. Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose. I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum. So, what are the first ten? -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

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