Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Posted: May 15 2008,11:59

Quote (JonF @ May 15 2008,12:41)

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 15 2008,11:23)

Quote (Nerull @ May 15 2008,11:19)

I've noticed it before, but now its happened to one of my posts...

Are the admins aware that the board doesn't create a new page for the first post on that page? You can get to it by URL manipulation, but the link doesn't appear until the second post on that page. Which should be this one. ;)

Long threads weird out sometimes, which necessitates a minor fix. Should be good now.

It's not.

I was just finishing up moving stuff to the BW when you posted that.

I just clicked into the thread and got just where I'm s'posed to be, and your comment was the only one on the page.

Quote

raspberries, by Marko_K

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â€œWhy do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linkyâ€œ. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Albatrossity2

Posts: 2780
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Posted: May 15 2008,15:46

On the latest O'Dreary post re David Brooks' recent musings on mind and soul and neurobiology, commenter allanius (I still think that the "i" in his name is a mistake), tards out

Quote

(quoting Brooks)“…people are equipped to experience the sacred, to have moments of elevated experience when they transcend boundaries and overflow with love.”

“People are equipped” to experience love is a meaningless statement from the materialist point of view but potentially quite meaningful if it is true that: a) humankind was created in the image of God; b) “God is love”; and c) “Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.”

Besides the overt scriptural search for justification, this is a remarkably ignorant statement, even by UD standards. Yep, there's no "materialist" explanation for human emotional attachments to mates, children, and other family members (aka "love"). It's simply meaningless from the "materialist" point of view. So clearly, goddidit.

What an ignorant git...

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
- Pattiann Rogers

Dr.GH

Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

Posted: May 15 2008,16:42

The varying chemistry of tears is relevant to this question. Tears of anger, pain, fear, and joy have different chemistries. The brain is leaking when overwhelmed with transmitters and neuroactive peptides.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Reciprocating Bill

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Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: May 15 2008,16:49

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ May 15 2008,16:46)

On the latest O'Dreary post re David Brooks' recent musings on mind and soul and neurobiology, commenter allanius (I still think that the "i" in his name is a mistake), tards out

Quote

(quoting Brooks)“…people are equipped to experience the sacred, to have moments of elevated experience when they transcend boundaries and overflow with love.”

“People are equipped” to experience love is a meaningless statement from the materialist point of view but potentially quite meaningful if it is true that: a) humankind was created in the image of God; b) “God is love”; and c) “Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.”

Besides the overt scriptural search for justification, this is a remarkably ignorant statement, even by UD standards. Yep, there's no "materialist" explanation for human emotional attachments to mates, children, and other family members (aka "love"). It's simply meaningless from the "materialist" point of view. So clearly, goddidit.

What an ignorant git...

You got it. He has it exactly backward. People are equipped to experience love first because they are mammals and possess brain structures associated with the mammalian strategy of live birth and caregiving. This is the foundation of the evolution of human pair bonding and parenthood. These idiots seem to be baffled by the notion that these affective and behavioral resources originate in our bodies and have a history. Theirs is an impoverished view of the human experience.

Panksepp's "Affective Neuroscience" is a good start on description of the inherent affective neurodynamics of the human brain.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

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- Barry Arrington

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Posted: May 15 2008,17:17

Quote (Richardthughes @ May 15 2008,12:40)

Bonus Tard (I'll keep this one on UD)

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-288689

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47

tribune7

05/15/2008

9:37 am
Meat, unlike metal and silicon, can repair itself. It’s almost like it was fearfully and wonderfully designed or something.

You know, not that ID has anything to do with religion or christianity.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. (Psalm 139:14 NIV)

Mr_Christopher

Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 15 2008,17:23

I predict at least one thread on the California Supreme Court decision today will grace the cover of UD by tomorrow. I mean it has to.

Well know the ghays lead to Nazis and intelligent design theorists will show us the science soon!

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

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Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: May 15 2008,17:38

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 15 2008,15:23)

I predict at least one thread on the California Supreme Court decision today will grace the cover of UD by tomorrow. I mean it has to.

Well know the ghays lead to Nazis and intelligent design theorists will show us the science soon!

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Robert O'Brien

Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: May 15 2008,18:24

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 15 2008,17:23)

I predict at least one thread on the California Supreme Court decision today will grace the cover of UD by tomorrow. I mean it has to.

Well know the ghays lead to Nazis and intelligent design theorists will show us the science soon!

I now live in fear that I will be compelled to gay marry Arden.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

Richardthughes

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 15 2008,18:26

Quote (didymos @ May 15 2008,17:38)

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 15 2008,15:23)

I predict at least one thread on the California Supreme Court decision today will grace the cover of UD by tomorrow. I mean it has to.

Well know the ghays lead to Nazis and intelligent design theorists will show us the science soon!

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal....-closes

Quote

15 May 2008
Good News for teh boys at “After The Bar Closes”
DaveScot
California’s top court legalizes gay marriage

Hat Tip to Wesley Elsberry’s message board for homozygous church burnin’ ebola boys After the Bar Closes.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: May 15 2008,20:00

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 15 2008,16:24)

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 15 2008,17:23)

I predict at least one thread on the California Supreme Court decision today will grace the cover of UD by tomorrow. I mean it has to.

Well know the ghays lead to Nazis and intelligent design theorists will show us the science soon!

I now live in fear that I will be compelled to gay marry Arden.

And why is that? Could it be that, with the striking down of this outmoded legal barrier, you now feel your own barriers of rationalization crumbling? Crumbling away to reveal a hidden fire: hot flames of pink and lavender, once damped but now growing ever higher? Do you hear hints of strange whispers in the crackling of that homophilic fire, and fear what they command? As it builds to a raging, fabulous inferno in the island of your heart, will you begin to hear the chant: Arden, Arden, Arden, Arden......?

Or did you have something else in mind? Just askin'.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 15 2008,20:36

Dumbski says:

Quote

The day Darwinism and Intelligent Design can be fairly discussed without fear of reprisal represents the removal of a barrier even greater than the Berlin Wall.

...says the guy who routinely bans scientists from his blog.

Quote

30 November 2005
Why I ruthlessly edit comments on this blog
William Dembski

Here’s an email from someone I banned from this blog.
...

http://www.uncommondescent.com/educati....is-blog

How many people has Dembski banned from his blog this year? 75? 100? (AtBC, for the record, is at 0 or 1, depending on how you count.)

Annyday

Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

Posted: May 15 2008,22:43

Was our mention of the Cali decision a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Quote

Good News for the boys at “After The Bar Closes”
DaveScot

California’s top court legalizes gay marriage

Hat Tip to Wesley Elsberry’s message board for homozygous church burnin’ ebola boys After the Bar Closes.

The homozygous agenda is powerful. Since we homozygotes have no mutations of our own, we must recruit those of your children. We long for a day when our homozygocity breaks down all mutational values, leading the way to perpetual stasis and the inevitable end of the species.

Christ's Warriors are all that stands between us and this lofty goal. Still, with the help of the Anti-Christian Lawyer's Union, our victory is inevitable.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

bystander

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Posted: May 15 2008,22:59

Least it's proof that Dave does read this thread.

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Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: May 15 2008,23:23

William Wallace is such a little shit. I have no idea how old the guy actually is. Doesn't matter. He's still a little shit:

Quote

William Wallace

05/15/2008

9:15 pm

I wonder if a certain evolander’s daughter is working to decriminalize bestiality.

Oh, don't be so coy, Willy. Or is that cowardly?

Quote

Darwinism: If you believe in Darwinism and environmentalism, doesn’t that lead to thinking we should limit the amount of precious natural resources homosexuals consume? Or something like that?

I'm pretty sure that little fantasy is all yours, William.

Quote

Nevermind.

I wonder if California will attempt to institute an exit tax for its citizens who decide to flee persecution…

No, William. We fully intend to round them up into camps and gas them. It'll be paid for many times over when we confiscate all their property. I think it's item 23 on the Joint Gay/Evolander Agenda. Fucking jackass.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

http://www.uncommondescent.com/philosophy/frustration/

Posted: May 15 2008,23:49

Richard Dawkins uses analogy, Gil Dodgen wrings hands.

Quote

15 May 2008
Frustration
GilDodgen

Quote

Richard Dawkins is certainly not a stupid person, but I find it amazing that he cannot see the obvious problem here.

Too cute. Por Gil. This isn't the first time he's used that exasperated formulation. 'How come this expert doesn't understand the obvious thing a layman like me understands about his field?!!?!?!?' I guess he's never been on the other side, where a layman is certain about something that he, as an expert, knows to be wrong.

Poor guy. Maybe he'll get a little humility and wisdom at some point.

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Posted: May 15 2008,23:51

Quote (didymos @ May 16 2008,00:23)

Quote

William Wallace

Darwinism: If you believe in Darwinism and environmentalism, doesn’t that lead to thinking we should limit the amount of precious natural resources homosexuals consume? Or something like that?

Poor WW is too young to have learned the difference between prescriptive and descriptive. Or too thick. I'm hoping too young.

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 15 2008,23:58

Upon reading the Dawkins quote further, it looks like he might not have been making a metaphor, but something more like 'show us how the ID occured.' There's a link to the Dawkins essay which presumably provides the context, but frankly it was a long day, and then there was an hour or so here

and now this stuff

isn't just going to drink itself, so I'll leave further analysis to others.

Reed

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

Posted: May 16 2008,00:09

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 15 2008,16:24)

I now live in fear that I will be compelled to gay marry Arden.

If by "compelled" you mean "forced", you can rest easy. Non-voluntary marriages are typically found in highly traditional societies, frequently in conjunction with religious extremism.

@didymos
Excellent observation. Funny that todays "materialists" and their liberal allies overwhelmingly support gay rights, while the "materialist" nazis were decidedly against them. It's almost as if the nazis got the idea somewhere else. Naw, couldn't be, because the Bible is the source of all that is good and compassionate. Right ?

Richardthughes

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Posted: May 16 2008,00:19

Tarden and RO'B.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
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"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: May 16 2008,00:33

Quote (stevestory @ May 15 2008,21:58)

Upon reading the Dawkins quote further, it looks like he might not have been making a metaphor, but something more like 'show us how the ID occured.' There's a link to the Dawkins essay which presumably provides the context, but frankly it was a long day, and then there was an hour or so here

Yeah, it's a scenario he's gone into before, notably in The Ancestor's Tale.It's worth noting that Gil mangles the quote. It's a mash-up that leaves out a lot of intervening text. The first part is:

Quote

In fact, natural selection is the very opposite of a chance process, and it is the only ultimate explanation we know for complex, improbable things. Even if our species was created by space alien designers, those designers themselves would have to have arisen from simpler antecedents -- so they can't be an ultimate explanation for anything. No matter how god-like our interstellar aliens may be, and no matter how vast and wonderful their starships, they cannot have designed the universe because, like human engineers and all complex things, they are late arrivals in it.

The rest comes from this:

Quote

We need a better explanation, such as evolution by natural selection or an equally workable account of the painstaking R&D that must underlie complex, statistically improbable things. Gods, if they are complex enough to be capable of designing anything, are, by virtue of their very complexity, not in a position to design themselves.

It's pretty obvious in context that Dawkins is saying we know of two mechanisms for generating complexity: evolution and deliberate design by us. Both leave their own trails of evidence, and the human design trails themselves lead back to natural selection. Gil is simultaneously getting and missing the whole point, which is a pretty neat trick, I have to say.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: May 16 2008,00:47

Quote (didymos @ May 15 2008,21:23)

William Wallace is such a little shit. I have no idea how old the guy actually is. Doesn't matter. He's still a little shit:

Quote

William Wallace

05/15/2008

9:15 pm

I wonder if a certain evolander’s daughter is working to decriminalize bestiality.

Oh, don't be so coy, Willy. Or is that cowardly?

Quote

Darwinism: If you believe in Darwinism and environmentalism, doesn’t that lead to thinking we should limit the amount of precious natural resources homosexuals consume? Or something like that?

I'm pretty sure that little fantasy is all yours, William.

Quote

Nevermind.

I wonder if California will attempt to institute an exit tax for its citizens who decide to flee persecution…

No, William. We fully intend to round them up into camps and gas them. It'll be paid for many times over when we confiscate all their property. I think it's item 23 on the Joint Gay/Evolander Agenda. Fucking jackass.

Looks like Dave nuked Wallace's nasty little TARD. Glad I preserved it for posterity. Now he's flogging Allen McNeil with the macro/micro whip:

Quote

William Wallace

05/16/2008

12:02 am

Allen,

Would you say most biologists who use evolution use macro evolution or micro evolution as a tool?

William, would you say most civil engineers, for example, use the Lambda-CDM model when designing a bridge? Probably not. Must be bullshit then.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: May 16 2008,01:52

ID in a nutshell:

Quote

gleaner63

05/15/2008

11:47 pm

I have never read anything about [Ruth Bader] Ginsberg’s life, but I wonder if it was a hardscrabble existence? My guess is not.

(edited to add: my bolding)

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Quack

Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

Posted: May 16 2008,03:29

Quote (stevestory @ May 15 2008,20:36)

Dumbski says:

Quote

The day Darwinism and Intelligent Design can be fairly discussed without fear of reprisal represents the removal of a barrier even greater than the Berlin Wall.

...says the guy who routinely bans scientists from his blog.

Quote

30 November 2005
Why I ruthlessly edit comments on this blog
William Dembski

Here’s an email from someone I banned from this blog.
...

http://www.uncommondescent.com/educati....is-blog

How many people has Dembski banned from his blog this year? 75? 100? (AtBC, for the record, is at 0 or 1, depending on how you count.)

CharlesW commenting at UcD:

Quote

What Dembski’s atheistic materialist opponents obviously can’t understand is that in this case censorsip is free speech.

How Orwellesque!

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Rocks have no biology.
Robert Byers.

Annyday

Posts: 583
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Posted: May 16 2008,04:33

Quote (didymos @ May 16 2008,00:47)

William, would you say most civil engineers, for example, use the Lambda-CDM model when designing a bridge? Probably not. Must be bullshit then.

I'll do one better and say that many engineers and even physicists treat gravity as negligible for the majority of their work, since they're dealing with unrelated* phenomena. Clearly, this means gravity is a useless and outmoded concept with no utility ...

*Superficially, anyway.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

Lou FCD

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 16 2008,05:40

Quote (didymos @ May 16 2008,01:47)

Looks like Dave nuked Wallace's nasty little TARD.

Good on you, Dave. It takes an especially low kind of bottom feeder to go after a kid because you don't like the parent.

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â€œWhy do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linkyâ€œ. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Reciprocating Bill

Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: May 16 2008,06:49

Gil Dodg'em:

Quote

The F-35 fighter aircraft (for which our company is designing a new pilot ejection parachute), did not come about by throwing out the Wright Flyer biplane, and then throwing out the Piper Cub, and then throwing out the F-16. The impotence of natural selection as a creative force is transparently and logically evident.

This is a relief. I pictured countless Wright Flyers reproducing until Malthusian limits imposed ruthless selection. Only the most effective Flyers left descendants. Aviation red in tail and prop.

Like aircraft, organisms don't reproduce. Descent with modification is bunko.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Hereâ€™s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

Zachriel

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: May 16 2008,06:49

Quote

Stash blogs: Kenneth Miller: Darwin’s B.S. Artist

CLAIM 1: He starts by calling intelligent design “repackaged creationism” that “can’t seem to produce any evidence”: “No data, no science, no experiments, just an attempt to sneak a narrow set of religious views into US classrooms.”

REALITY 1: How does science explain the origin of first life — the cell, which is the only life we know? Does Miller have an evolutionary explanation that requires no recourse to intelligence? The cell contains high-tech machinery. Why isn’t this evidence for design? Is the RNA World about to explain the origin of life? Hardly. Of course there’s evidence for intelligent design — if there weren’t, Miller wouldn’t be spending so much time denying it.

You might notice a slight deficiency in Stash's response. He forgot the data, science, and experiments.

Quote

Stash blogs:

CLAIM 2: “Neither Steinberg [sic — Sternberg?] nor any of the other people featured as martyrs in ‘Expelled’ lost jobs as a result of their advocacy of Intelligent Design.”

REALITY 2: What planet does Miller inhabit? The NCSE and Sternberg’s colleagues at the Smithsonian tried to get his research associate position revoked. They took away his office. They created a hostile work environment. Firing would have been easier than what Sternberg endured (click here). And what about Guillermo Gonzalez — does it count as losing a job not to get tenure when your research deserves it? Does it count not to have your contract renewed — as in the case of Caroline Crocker and William Dembski?

Apparently, Miller is on planet Earth where not losing one's job is not the same as losing one's job.

Quote

Stash blogs:

CLAIM 3: Miller complains that the movie avoided interviewing all those good evolutionists who also believe in God because “showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line.”

REALITY 3: So, what would a Miller interview have done to enhance the movie:

Provided balance and credibility. Or as Ken Miller says, "showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line."

Quote

Stash blogs:

CLAIM 4: “By far the film’s most outlandish misrepresentation is its linkage of Darwin with the Holocaust.

REALITY 4: Funny, we never see Mother Teresa being used to justify abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, bestiality, etc.

But for centuries we have seen Jesus being used to justify the murder of Jews. Something about the lying Jews killed Christ.

Quote

Stash blogs:

CLAIM 5: “According to Stein, science leads you to ‘killing people.’ Not to cures and vaccines, not to a deeper understanding of nature, not to wonders like computers and cellphones, and certainly not to a better life. Nope. Science is murder.”

REALITY 5: Read what Stein said in context, Dr. Miller.

Another slight deficiency in Stash's response. He forgot to provide the context.

Quote

Stash blogs:

CLAIM 6: “Stein is doing nothing less than helping turn a generation of American youth away from science.”

REALITY 6: I’ll tell you what’s turning a generation of American youth away from science — it’s elitist prigs like yourself who pretend that evolutionary biology has all the answers and who bully those who beg to differ. Stifling the freedom to dissent is the best way to turn a generation of American youth away from science, and you are doing a fabulous job at it.

Still another slight deficiency in Stash's response. He forgot to mention how Ken Miller was "stifling freedom" by speaking out against Stein's movie.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

carlsonjok

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Joined: May 2006

Posted: May 16 2008,07:23

Quote (Zachriel @ May 16 2008,06:49)

Quote

REALITY 6: I’ll tell you what’s turning a generation of American youth away from science — it’s elitist prigs like yourself who pretend that evolutionary biology has all the answers and who bully those who beg to differ. Stifling the freedom to dissent is the best way to turn a generation of American youth away from science, and you are doing a fabulous job at it.

Still another slight deficiency in Stash's response. He forgot to mention how Ken Miller was "stifling freedom" by speaking out against Stein's movie.

Interestingly, there was a couple of comments earlier this morning by DiEb (no, it isn't me) addressing some of the same points that you raised. They seem, however, to be gone now.

Silence is speech. Bondage is freedom. Uncommon Descent is not afraid of facts.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Zachriel

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