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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,17:16   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 23 2009,18:01)
We really need to mail Denyse a jr. high grammar textbook:

 
Quote
The evolutionary pyschologists’s “cave men with better haircuts” is just a time-waster in a world where serious neuroscience issues must be addressed.


Either psychologist's or psychologists' would have worked.

ETA linky

BTW: spellchecker didn't like "pyschologists’s", does she not have one?

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,17:33   

Quote (khan @ Jan. 23 2009,18:16)
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 23 2009,18:01)
We really need to mail Denyse a jr. high grammar textbook:

 
Quote
The evolutionary pyschologists’s “cave men with better haircuts” is just a time-waster in a world where serious neuroscience issues must be addressed.


Either psychologist's or psychologists' would have worked.

ETA linky

BTW: spellchecker didn't like "pyschologists’s", does she not have one?

Presumably the spell checker is based on consensus, and Denyse is having none of that.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,17:42   

Quote
gpuccio: 1) Take a digital environment: a computer running some operating system, and any software we like. The digital environment can be stable or change, but the important point is that it should in no way be programmed for the simulation.

It's hard to discern what gpuccio is thinking here. If we model an environment where imperfectly replicating individuals compete for limited resources, then we would have an evolving population. But that does require programming the environment. That's rather the point.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,18:04   

Uncommonly Denyse:
Quote
Look, let me be clear about this: There is stuff in brain science that really is so.

This from the coauthor of the claptrap that is The Spatula Brain.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,18:46   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 23 2009,03:56)
 
Quote (nuytsia @ Jan. 23 2009,03:51)
 
Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 22 2009,09:17)
Denyse... You can put a man on Mars?

She reads them one of her love poems.
You'd be amazed how far they go. :D

Hmmm....  I wonder if she's a Vogon?

A rough draft, but better never than late...

I net-surfed idly as a clod
Intending for my brain to fill,
When all at once I said “My God!”
“A host of dumb creationist shills!
In Telic Thoughts, in U. Dissent,
In AIG, the same thing’s meant!”

Continuous as the curse of tax
There emanated, by the yard,
From that whining horde of hacks
A glutinous stream of lumpy tard.
I cried: “Let’s make this book-list longer:
If they are wrong, let me be wronger!”

The other creos sought to write
Simple parodies of science,
They never rivalled my pure shite,
And lacked the force of my deniance:
Proving Darwin was transitional–
(And probably a homosishnal.)

Now oft, while counting out my dough
I think of those who pay my bills:
The credulous, the simply slow,
And those for whom school held no thrills;
I dream of all the vacant gapes
As I point out “There still are apes!”

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,18:48   

Damn, you're good.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,18:57   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 23 2009,16:04)
Uncommonly Denyse:
 
Quote
Look, let me be clear about this: There is stuff in brain science that really is so.

This from the coauthor of the claptrap that is The Spatula Brain.

Think of the relief that the thousands of neurologists in the world must be feeling now.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,19:01   

Patrick reveals how distant he is from reality:
Quote
If Creationists–or any other organization or group–misrepresent the scientific information then that would indeed be a problem.

LINK

Although the cake needs no cherry he adds it anyway
Quote
I’ve personally said for years than any smart designer would build in the capability to adapt to environments that may change radically, either through latent unexpressed information or by other means such as the above.

I think you've had enough Patrick.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,09:35   

Gil Dodgen
 
Quote
The thing that intrigues me is that in all Darwinian speculating, whether bio or psycho, no one ever asks the hard questions, like: How did the particular trait that offers a survival advantage originate? What mutations or random genetic accidents would be required to engineer the trait? What is the probability of these accidents occurring? How many individuals and reproductive events would be required for the trait to be selected and preserved in the population? In other words, could the probabilistic resources have been up to the task of overcoming the improbabilities?

The thing that intrigues me is that in all Dodgen's whining there is not an iota of curiosity.  How about googling around a bit, Gil?  

N. B. Sutter and E. A. Ostrander, Dog star rising: the canine genetic system, Nature Reviews Genetics 5, 900 (2004).  doi:10.1038/nrg1492.
 
Quote
Purebred dogs are providing invaluable information about morphology, behaviour and complex diseases, both of themselves and humans, by supplying tractable populations in which to map genes that control those processes. The diversification of dog breeds has led to the development of breeds enriched for particular genetic disorders, the mapping and cloning of which have been facilitated by the availability of the canine genome map and sequence. These tools have aided our understanding of canine population genetics, linkage disequilibrium and haplotype sharing in the dog, and have informed ongoing efforts of the need to identify quantitative trait loci that are important in complex traits.


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,09:54   

Quote (olegt @ Jan. 24 2009,09:35)
Gil Dodgen
     
Quote
The thing that intrigues me is that in all Darwinian speculating, whether bio or psycho, no one ever asks the hard questions, like: How did the particular trait that offers a survival advantage originate? What mutations or random genetic accidents would be required to engineer the trait? What is the probability of these accidents occurring? How many individuals and reproductive events would be required for the trait to be selected and preserved in the population? In other words, could the probabilistic resources have been up to the task of overcoming the improbabilities?

The thing that intrigues me is that in all Dodgen's whining there is not an iota of curiosity.  How about googling around a bit, Gil?  

N. B. Sutter and E. A. Ostrander, Dog star rising: the canine genetic system, Nature Reviews Genetics 5, 900 (2004).  doi:10.1038/nrg1492.
     
Quote
Purebred dogs are providing invaluable information about morphology, behaviour and complex diseases, both of themselves and humans, by supplying tractable populations in which to map genes that control those processes. The diversification of dog breeds has led to the development of breeds enriched for particular genetic disorders, the mapping and cloning of which have been facilitated by the availability of the canine genome map and sequence. These tools have aided our understanding of canine population genetics, linkage disequilibrium and haplotype sharing in the dog, and have informed ongoing efforts of the need to identify quantitative trait loci that are important in complex traits.

Not to mention:  nobody asks  "How many individuals and reproductive events would be required for the trait to be selected and preserved in the population?"?  Really?  Then what is it that population geneticists do all day?

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,10:06   

Uncommonly Denyse shows more sparkling scholarship as she remarks upon another review of yet another book she hasn't read:
                         
Quote
Evolutionary psychology: So they really DON’T believe all that rot?
O'Leary

I’ve been trying for years, to get hold of some evidence that anyone at all who thinks Darwinian evolution plausible actually stops short of the Big Bazooms theory of human evolution - something so completely ridiculous that no one who takes it seriously can be considered a contributor to rational thought.

Apparently, some do stop short. And nice to know, for sanity’s sake.

In “On Second Thought … Scientists are supposed to change their minds when evidence undercuts their views. Dream on” (January 3, 2009), Newsweek’s Sharon Begley, co-author of The Mind and the Brain, spills the beans (as if we hadn’t seen them spilled all over the floor a long time ago - but never mind)

Begley has commented upon the book What Have You Changed Your Mind About, which is described on Amazon thusly: "In this wide-ranging assortment of 150 brief essays, well-known figures from every conceivable field demonstrate why it's a prerogative of all thoughtful people to change their mind once in a while." Denyse is excited and quotes Begley extensively:
                         
Quote
The most fascinating backpedaling is by scientists who have long pushed evolutionary psychology. This field holds that we all carry genes that led to reproductive success in the Stone Age, and that as a result men are genetically driven to be promiscuous and women to be coy, that men have a biological disposition to rape and to kill mates who cheat on them, and that every human behavior is "adaptive"—that is, helpful to reproduction. But as Harvard biologist Marc Hauser now concedes, evidence is "sorely missing" that language, morals and many other human behaviors exist because they help us mate and reproduce. And Steven Pinker, one of evo-psych's most prominent popularizers, now admits that many human genes are changing more quickly than anyone imagined. If genes that affect brain function and therefore behavior are also evolving quickly, then we do not have the Stone Age brains that evo-psych supposes, and the field "may have to reconsider the simplifying assumption that biological evolution was pretty much over" 50,000 years ago, Pinker says. How has the view that reproduction is all, and that humans are just cavemen with better haircuts, hung on so long? "Even in science," says neuroscientist Roger Bingham of the University of California, San Diego, "a seductive story will sometimes … outpace the data." And withstand it, too.

Always interesting to peel one of Denyse's stinking onions.

First, it is worth noting that the book of which Begley is co-author is fully entitled, The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force. Her co-co-author is Jeffrey M. Schwartz. If you've read The Spatula Brain, you'll recognize Schwartz as the psychiatrist who specializes in the application of neuroplasticity to the treatment of OCD. His schtick is utterly unapologetic dualism: the mind is not the brain; the mind can reprogram the brain. He is also a supporter of IDC, and is honored with extensive appearances in the movie Expelled! No Intelligence Displayed. Begley herself is not a neuroscientist. She is a journalist. She has authored or co-authored a number of books that pedal a similar schtick, with titles such as,

    Inside The Mind Of God: Images And Words Of Inner Space (with Michael Reagan)

    Train Your Mind, Change Your Brain: How a New Science Reveals Our Extraordinary Potential to Transform Ourselves

So Begley has a stake, and probably a steak, in a bad outcome for evolutionary psychology, which understands that the mind is in fact instantiated in the brain and is, along with human culture, a highly derived component of the natural world. Which raises the question, could Begley possibly have quotemined Hauser and Pinker, above?

As it happens, the essays presented in What Have You Changed Your Mind About are also available online at www.edge.org. Including Pinker's and Hauser's. Best to restore Begley's nuggets of quote-ore to their contexts.

Begley quotes Hauser:
                         
Quote
But as Harvard biologist Marc Hauser now concedes, evidence is "sorely missing" that language, morals and many other human behaviors exist because they help us mate and reproduce.

Hauser himself:  
                         
Quote
Although it is certainly reasonable to say that language, morality and music have design features that are adaptive, that would enhance reproduction and survival, evidence for such claims is sorely missing. Further, for those who wish to argue that the evidence comes from the complexity of the behavior itself, and the absurdly low odds of constructing such complexity by chance, these arguments just don’t cut it with respect to explaining or predicting the intricacies of language, morality, music or many other domains of knowledge.

In fact, I would say that although Darwin’s theory has been around, and readily available for the taking for 150 years, it has not advanced the fields of linguistics, ethics, or mathematics. This is not to say that it can’t advance these fields. But unlike the areas of economic decision making, mate choice, and social relationships, where the adaptive program has fundamentally transformed our understanding, the same can not be said for linguistics, ethics, and mathematics. What has transformed these disciplines is our growing understanding of mechanism, that is, how the mind represents the world, how physiological processes generate these representations, and how the child grows these systems of knowledge.

So Hauser observes that an evolutionary perspective has fundamentally transformed our understanding of economic decision making, mate choice, and social relationships. And where evolutionary psychology has failed, progress is being made through increasing understanding of the physiological and developmental processes that underlie mental representation. These subtleties don't seem to come across in Begley's article, or Denyse's twice removed ruminations.

Begley's Pinker:
                         
Quote
And Steven Pinker, one of evo-psych’s most prominent popularizers, now admits that many human genes are changing more quickly than anyone imagined. If genes that affect brain function and therefore behavior are also evolving quickly, then we do not have the Stone Age brains that evo-psych supposes, and the field “may have to reconsider the simplifying assumption that biological evolution was pretty much over” 50,000 years ago, Pinker says.

And Pinker in context:
                         
Quote
If these results hold up, and apply to psychologically relevant brain function (as opposed to disease resistance, skin color, and digestion, which we already know have evolved in recent millennia), then the field of evolutionary psychology might have to reconsider the simplifying assumption that biological evolution was pretty much over and done with 10-000 — 50,000 years ago.

And if so, the result could be evolutionary psychology on steroids. Humans might have evolutionary adaptations not just to the conditions that prevailed for hundreds of thousands of years, but also to some of the conditions that have prevailed only for millennia or even centuries. Currently, evolutionary psychology assumes that any adaptation to post-agricultural ways of life are 100% cultural.

Though I suspect some revisions will be called for, I doubt they will be radical, for two reasons. One is that many aspects of the human (and ape) environments have been constant for a much longer time than the period in which selection has recently been claimed to operate. Examples include dangerous animals and insects, toxins and pathogens in spoiled food and other animal products, dependent children, sexual dimorphism, risks of cuckoldry and desertion, parent-offspring conflict, risk of cheaters in cooperation, fitness variation among potential mates, causal laws governing solid bodies, presence of conspecifics with minds, and many others. Recent adaptations would have to be an icing on this cake -- quantitative variations within complex emotional and cognitive systems.

The other is the empirical fact that human races and ethnic groups are psychologically highly similar, if not identical. People everywhere use language, get jealous, are selective in choosing mates, find their children cute, are afraid of heights and the dark, experience anger and disgust, learn names for local species, and so on. If you adopt children from a technologically undeveloped part of the world, they will fit in to modern society just fine. To the extent that this is true, there can't have been a whole lot of uneven psychological evolution postdating the split among the races 50-100,000 years ago (though there could have been parallel evolution in all the branches).

I came away from Begley/Denyse briefly wondering if Pinker had abandoned the perspective of evolutionary psychology. A closer squint finds that he is now entertaining the notion of "evolutionary psychology on steroids."

Begley caps her comments with a quote from Roger Bingham:
           
Quote
How has the view that reproduction is all, and that humans are just cavemen with better haircuts, hung on so long? “Even in science,” says neuroscientist Roger Bingham of the University of California, San Diego, “a seductive story will sometimes … outpace the data.” And withstand it, too.

A summary of Bingham's preferred model is in order:
           
Quote
Although this is not the place to detail the arguments, we suggested that the selective pressures of navigating ancestral environments — particularly the social world — would have required an adaptively flexible, on-line information-processing system and would have driven the evolution of the neocortex.  We claimed that the ultimate function of the mind is to devise behavior that wards off the depredations of entropy and keeps our energy bank balance in the black. So our universal evolutionary heritage is not a bundle of instincts, but a self-adapting system that is responsive to environmental stimuli, constantly analyzing bioenergetic costs and benefits, creating a customized database of experiences and outcomes, and generating minds that are unique by design.

We also explained the construction of selves, how our systems adapt to different 'marketplaces', and the importance of reputation effects — a richly nuanced story, which explains why the phrase "I changed my mind" is, with all due respect, the kind of rather simplistic folk psychological language that I hope we will eventually clean up. I think it was Mallarmé who said it was the duty of the poet to purify the language of the tribe. That task now falls also to the scientist.

This model of the mind that I have now subscribed to for about a decade is the bible at the Church of Theoretical Evolutionary Neuroscience (of which I am a co-founder). It was created in alignment with both the adaptationist principles of evolutionary biologists and psychologists (who, at the time, tended to pay little attention to the actual workings of the brain at the implementation level of neurons) and the constructivist principles of neuroscientists (who tended to pay little attention to adaptationism). It would be unrealistic, however, to claim that the two perspectives have yet been satisfactorily reconciled.

Surprise! Bingham's view of human cognition and human neuroscience is thoroughly evolutionary and thoroughly adaptionist. It differs from the Barkow/Cosmides/Tooby brand of evolutionary psychology in that it eschews the radical cognitive modularity those authors espouse. And, pace Beauregard, Schwartz, O'Leary and Begley, Bingham explicitly rejects folk notions such as "I changed my mind."  

Denyse gets it wrong. Dog bites man.

[edits of this and that]

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,10:35   

That was a very informative post R.Bill.  Thanks.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,12:57   

I respond to Begley.

Quote

Maybe a question in the journalist profession could be the basis for changes of mind, too, specifically whether anything filling column-inches is better than a far more accurate void.


--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,13:37   

Quote (olegt @ Jan. 24 2009,10:35)
Gil Dodgen
 
Quote
The thing that intrigues me is that in all Darwinian speculating, whether bio or psycho, no one ever asks the hard questions, like: How did the particular trait that offers a survival advantage originate? What mutations or random genetic accidents would be required to engineer the trait? What is the probability of these accidents occurring? How many individuals and reproductive events would be required for the trait to be selected and preserved in the population? In other words, could the probabilistic resources have been up to the task of overcoming the improbabilities?

The thing that intrigues me is that in all Dodgen's whining there is not an iota of curiosity.  How about googling around a bit, Gil?  

Poor dumb Gil has to show everyone that he's completely ignorant of the scientific literature.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,17:35   

I still can't parse what gpuccio would consider a reasonable simulation.

Quote
gpuccio: Indeed, the fitness function is an ambiguous abstraction. Let’s say that it is the replicator itself which survives or not survives, according to the resources it has (in NS); while it survives or not survives according to the planned expectations of the programmer (in IS). That is a lot of difference. The “fitness function” of the natural world, whatever it nay be, incorporates no design and no intelligence. The fitness function in an algorithm is a well defined product of design, and incorporates a lot.

Yes, and nature incorporates a lot too.

We can't hope to model every aspect of a natural ecosystem or even the workings of a single organism, but we can model some limited aspects of the evolutionary process sufficient to demonstrate the basic principle. However, there is no way to take gpuccio's comments and know that we have met his vague criteria.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,18:59   

Quote (Amadan @ Jan. 23 2009,18:46)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 23 2009,03:56)
 
Quote (nuytsia @ Jan. 23 2009,03:51)
   
Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 22 2009,09:17)
Denyse... You can put a man on Mars?

She reads them one of her love poems.
You'd be amazed how far they go. :D

Hmmm....  I wonder if she's a Vogon?

A rough draft, but better never than late...

I net-surfed idly as a clod
Intending for my brain to fill,
When all at once I said “My God!”
“A host of dumb creationist shills!
In Telic Thoughts, in U. Dissent,
In AIG, the same thing’s meant!”

Continuous as the curse of tax
There emanated, by the yard,
From that whining horde of hacks
A glutinous stream of lumpy tard.
I cried: “Let’s make this book-list longer:
If they are wrong, let me be wronger!”

The other creos sought to write
Simple parodies of science,
They never rivalled my pure shite,
And lacked the force of my deniance:
Proving Darwin was transitional–
(And probably a homosishnal.)

Now oft, while counting out my dough
I think of those who pay my bills:
The credulous, the simply slow,
And those for whom school held no thrills;
I dream of all the vacant gapes
As I point out “There still are apes!”

Damn, them Irish Poets sure does some nice damn stuff with words!

I'd buy you a pint of Guiness if you were here!  Thanks for the chuckles and chortles.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,21:50   

Everyone who wants uncensored UD should check out the computer thread.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,23:07   

Tribune7 should get his money back on those European History classes:

Quote
OTOH, there were 4 centuries between Luther and the Holocaust. Hitler was born just seven years (and 1 day) after Darwin's death while Haeckel & Hitler's lives overlapped.


Because up until the Holocaust, nobody in Europe ever persecuted any Jews...

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,02:20   

Mark Frank struggles with gpuccio's tard modality

Quote


89

Mark Frank

01/25/2009

2:37 am


gpuccio

No. The replicator must survive or not survive for its intrinsic capacity to survive or not survive in the environment. In other words, the variation must increase the true replicating ability of the replicator: it’s not the designer that has to decide who survives according to a predetermined, and searched for, function.

I am really struggling with this. What are you asking for? This is a simulation not the real thing. No simulated life form is going to die or survive unless there is a mechanism in the software for doing that. The programmer must create that mechanism.

What does an “intrinsic” capacity to survive mean in this context?

What is the “true” replicating ability as opposed to any other replicating ability?

It is almost as if you want the environment and the die/survive mechanism to develop through evolution as well as the individuals that live in that environment.

Go back to the example of artificial selection. In this case the real world fitness function is the product of a designer. If I breed pigeons I decide which ones survive and on what basis. Suppose I breed pigeons on the basis of speed and the result is a pigeon that has a radically different breast bone structure (I don’t design the breast bone structure - in fact I may not even know it exists). Would this not be an impressive demonstration of Darwinian mechanisms in action? But the selection mechanism (speed) is completely designed.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,02:26   

Ahhhh I love the good tard.



I can quit this stuff whenever I feel like.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,02:46   

dnmlthr (How am I supposed to pronounce that, btw?) put up the Yahoo pipes thing in the computer thread Jan 9. I referred to it here yesterday at 22:50. Since then there have been 6 comments made on UD, none of which has shown up at the Yahoo Pipes thing. Is Yahoo Pipes slow to update? Or are the UD people so hell-bent on censoring their site that they shut Yahoo's access down within minutes of us noting it on the UD thread?

Never in my life have I seen people so scared of being held accountable.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,02:57   

Davem

Quote


15

Davem

01/24/2009

10:41 pm

If the Bible didn’t tell us otherwise, most likely we would think that this is how the world is supposed to be. Also, if there was no death, we probably would have run out of room by now.


Dave, don't post when you're high buddy.

(Speaking of that, why is it 4 hours past midnight Saturday night and I'm not lit? I've got to get more serious about my drinking.)

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,03:01   

I have a general rule about not commenting while I'm drinking. So when there's an embarrassment of riches at UD it seriously interferes with my Friday & Saturday lifestyle. UD is like Niagra Falls with tard instead of water. I have to have more discipline in the future, and know when to put the UD down so I can pick the Seagram's up.

   
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,03:57   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 25 2009,08:46)
dnmlthr (How am I supposed to pronounce that, btw?) put up the Yahoo pipes thing in the computer thread Jan 9. I referred to it here yesterday at 22:50. Since then there have been 6 comments made on UD, none of which has shown up at the Yahoo Pipes thing. Is Yahoo Pipes slow to update? Or are the UD people so hell-bent on censoring their site that they shut Yahoo's access down within minutes of us noting it on the UD thread?

stevestory: I believe pipes is pretty CPU-intensive on yahoo's side, so it'd make sense from their point of view to cache it.

The thing works like this: the main UD rss feed is downloaded, then the (comment) rss feeds of all the posts referenced in the rss feed are downloaded one at a time and combined to a single rss output.

So there are a few things that might prevent this from working:
1. Yahoo pipes is broken in some way
2. Yahoo pipes refuses to run often enough for this to work
3. The delayed publishing due to moderation on UD messes up the way yahoo processes their feeds.
4. The discussion you're after happens in entries not in the main rss feed of the site.
5. I messed up somehow, but I've rechecked the pipe and it seems to work.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,04:08   

are you getting anything after Tribune7's comment at 22:45? Right now I'm not, and it's been 6 hours.

   
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,04:36   

No, I didn't. Wonder if it could have been something with the sorting. I've changed it around so that all comments are sorted by date.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,04:52   

We'll see how it plays out over the next few days.

   
hereoisreal



Posts: 745
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,05:41   

I just received an E from Dr. Dembski saying, “Please remove me
from your mailing list.” which I did and E’d him confirmation.
Actually, I don’t have a mailing list.  I only try to contact those
people to whom I wish to talk.  At least I now know he knows how
he can reach me without posting on this site.  My door is open.
There was a big jump on the hits on my website today so that made my day.

Zero

ps: no, you can't have his E
edit/add/don't ask

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360  miracles and more at:
http://www.hereoisreal.com/....eal.com

Great news. God’s wife is pregnant! (Rev. 12:5)

It's not over till the fat lady sings! (Isa. 54:1 & Zec 9:9)

   
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,09:09   

RB said

If I dare offer my opinion:

Every action taken by man is an expression of the tendency to remain and stay alive. That extends across the entire spectrum, from copulation to suicide.

Copulation is obvious - even if it may not actually contribute to the survival of the perpetrating couple; it has the potential of propagating their genes, and that is survival.

At the other end of the spectrum we may wonder about suicide, but the connection is: Suicide in most cases is the solution to a more or less existential problem. The problem is effectively solved, albeit with the undesirable side effect of also terminating that particular life, a fine example of the truism that you can't both eat your cake and keep it too.

But that's life.

When people's behaviour doesn't always seem to correspond with the formula it is because we cannot read people's minds, we have no means of determining the causes of any particular act. Man is not guided by his genes and instincts only, we are the victims of heavy conditioning and indoctrination whether we like it or not.

It is pretty obvious that someone like Denyse is absolutely incapable of understanding subjects of this complexity - they require a mind with at least a rudimentary capacity for subtlety. (I am not satisfied with the wording but it is the best I can manage right now. Maybe I should have hit Escape right now...)

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Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,09:10   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 25 2009,02:57)
Davem

Quote


15

Davem

01/24/2009

10:41 pm

If the Bible didn’t tell us otherwise, most likely we would think that this is how the world is supposed to be. Also, if there was no death, we probably would have run out of room by now.


Dave, don't post when you're high buddy.

Davem is almost up to Malthus's An Essay on the Principle of Population (1798) or even Franklin's Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc. (1751). Maybe he will go on to independently discover the principles of evolutionary theory.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
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