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  Topic: Wildlife, What's in your back yard?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2009,22:23   

Quote (clamboy @ April 03 2009,19:44)
Today's take: starlings too numerous to mention; 3 great blue herons; several American coots (not including me); classic mergansers, male and female; bubbleheads; what looked like a pond turtle, but should not be; several red-winged blackbirds; red-tailed hawk; shovelers; pied-billed grebes; cormorants; Anna's hummingbirds; crows; violet-green swallows; an American goldfinch; a Northern flicker; black-capped chickadees; robins; Canada geese; junchos; mallards; wrens; warblers; and a gold-crowned sparrow!

I was getting my motorcycle out of the garage today when an Anna's hummingbird flew in and tried to get nectar out of the bright red tag hanging from the garage door emergency release cable.  Gorgeous bird.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2009,22:26   

Quote (clamboy @ April 03 2009,19:44)
Today's take:  several American coots...bubbleheads...shovelers...

Visited UD, eh?

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,00:01   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 25 2009,18:44)
Excellent advice, Wes. I have been very slow to convert to digital cameras. I have instead used the college computer lab's slide copier.

I am ready to buy one for myself.

Any recommendations?

With the lens-first advice, one needs to figure out what subjects are most likely to attract your attention. Pick the lens to suit that, then pick the body to provide the convenience features that you want/need. Good glass costs real money. Even good third-party lenses that have the right specs are going to be a significant fraction of the cost of most camera-brand lensmaker's products... except if one is talking Leitz or Zeiss. Picking good third-party lenses does open up the choices on camera systems, since the third-party manufacturers usually offer the same lens design in a variety of mounts.

For general wildlife and mid-scale subjects at modest distances, one can hardly go wrong with a 70-200mm f/2.8 constant aperture zoom lens, especially with image stabilization. Both Nikon and Canon make outstanding examples of these sorts of lenses, but expect to pay a bit over $1,600 new for either. Third-party lens makers often have good glass in this specification, but not often with image stabilization. Those are considerably cheaper. Nikon's legendary 80-200mm f/2.8 zoom is right around $1,000, and that has no image stabilization. One can get image stabilization in the camera body in Sony and Pentax DSLRs, giving another path to getting all the features together.

For scenics, wide is good. Recent years have seen the introduction of many ultra-wide lenses. Myself, I got the Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 lens. The 12mm covers a full-frame view on a 35mm camera, so I have shot some film specifically to take advantage of that.

If you want to do wildlife that is smaller or at longer distances, you need good telephoto gear. If you want to take photos of wildlife that isn't out in full daylight, your wallet is going to take a walloping. Long, fast lenses are the high-ticket items in photography. The entry level into that sort of gear would include the Canon 300mm f/2.8 lens at $4,100. One f-stop difference, as in the Canon 300mm f/4 lens, drops the price tag to $1,200. Step up to a 500mm lens, and Nikon offers an f/4 with image stabilization for $8,100. If you want to go the economy route, you can spend a fraction of the money to get a mirror lens and a good tripod. The mirror telephoto lenses offer long focal lengths in a compact and light package. The downside is that they are also usually slower, offer only a single aperture, and introduce odd out-of-focus background artifacts because of the lens design. Long lenses of whatever sort require more discipline to get good results.

If you don't need extreme shot-to-shot speed, you can likely get a camera body billed as being for digital SLR entry level. A few years ago, there were lots of ways to argue for particular cameras or camera systems. Now, just about any recent DSLR design is going to offer a good imager. Most people aren't really going to need anything beyond about 6 megapixels. If you are looking to publish, image editor resolution requirements have been rising with the capabilities of DSLRs, but otherwise 6 megapixels should be considered a sufficient baseline.

Some recent DSLRs also offer "live view" and HD video recording. If those features are needed, that will limit your choices. There are cameras with those features in the Canon and Nikon lineups.

Ken Rockwell offers the advice of getting the Nikon D40. If you are getting all-new gear, it is worth looking at. I believe that Rockwell also elsewhere argues for buying a film SLR and having the negatives or slides scanned, noting that the price of a used pro-quality film SLR is way cheaper than a new pro digital SLR. I've shot almost exclusively digital since 2002, basically only using film to get the most out of my ultra-wide angle lens. The single biggest thing you get with digital is immediacy of feedback. You can check the shot right then. That single thing is, IMO, worth it alone.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,01:45   

When choosing a lens, you need to know the size of the image sensor. This is not an obvious or widely promoted feature of digital cameras, because it doesn't correlate with megapixel count.

But a full size sensor (the same size as a 35mm film frame) will give the same results with the same focal length as a film camera.

Most affordable cameras have smaller sensors, so the lenses seem "longer" than they would in the35mm world. A 24mm lens, for example, is not very wide.

To make this more complicated, some lenses are optimized for the smaller sensors, giving sharper results on the correct camera. If you are dropping a couple of grand on equipment, it's worth your time reading up on these issues.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,02:14   

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but my first real job was at Altman's.

http://www.photoreporter.com/article....eID=962

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,14:38   

Quote

To make this more complicated, some lenses are optimized for the smaller sensors, giving sharper results on the correct camera.


Mostly, lenses for smaller sensors simply don't have image circles that cover the larger sensor size, or don't cover the larger sensor size through all the zoom range. Improvement in resolution is a different consideration. It would be better to say that lenses designed to provide those smaller image circles can be produced more cheaply to attain similar MTF performance as lenses that must cover the larger image circle needed for full-frame film or sensors. There's nothing magic about MTF, and a lens with a particular MTF is going to perform the same at the center of the frame for any set of sensors with the same pixel pitch no matter the sensor size. It certainly is not the case that all lenses designated as being only for smaller sensors will perform better on those sensors with respect to resolution than a full-frame-capable lens.

Small pixel pitch to go with the small sensor makes things harder on a lens designer to achieve high resolution. An APS-C sized sensor is only capable of about 3/4ths the resolution of a 36x24mm sensor given the same number of total pixels and the same lens used on both, as I took up in an exercise several years ago and just reposted.

An excellent site for comparing lens data is Photodo.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,15:22   

Quote
Step up to a 500mm lens, and Nikon offers an f/4 with image stabilization for $8,100.

Nearly two decades ago, when I made the decision to upgrade from my old Minolta system to one offering a 600/4 for bird photography, I had my heart set on buying a Nikon system.

Then I priced out a full system and was staggered by the price differential for long lenses.  Canon was noticably cheaper *and* had fully integrated auto-focus.

Still true today - Canon's 500/4 with image stabilization is about $6K, enough cheaper than the Nikon price quoted above for one to toss in an additional 300/4 image stabilized lens, a 1.4x teleextender, and an extension tube for close focusing (500mm lenses typically only focus down to 5m, for songbirds it's nice to be able to focus a bit closer).

And, no, you're not going to lose quality.  Even Art Wolfe is shooting Canon these days (when did *that* happen?).

Not trying to start a brand war here - both Nikon and Canon are great, and Nikon offers the advantage of there being a huge pool of manual focus lenses available that will at least mount on modern bodies (autofocus is pretty meaningless for extreme wide-angle, or macro, lenses, though macro lenses generally are excellent for all-around use where AF will be more greatly appreciated).

For wildlife shooting I highly favor APS-sized sensors.  I've just upgraded from Canon's 20D to the 50D, but even the 8MP 20D allowed me to make extremely sharp and salable 14x20 prints.  Modern scaling algorithms used in PhotoShop along with a subtle bit of sharpening can yield some extremely impressive results.  Publishers tend to want more megapixels, but gladly accept uprez'd images from my 20D.

Question for Wes: when you did your resolution analysis for the same number of pixels on APC vs. full-frame, did you take into account resolution falloff at the edges?  One advantage of APC is that you're cutting out the sharper, center portion of the image circle when you use it with a lens designed for a full 35mm frame.

Anyway, I'd venture that in the field, any resolution difference due to sensor size when shooting wildlife with a long lens isn't worth worrying about.

One nice thing about digital is that the modern bodies perform extremely well at ISO 200, better than something like Sensia pushed to 200 (well, at least at the time I tried it - is Fuji still investing in improving their film?  I doubt it).

For those of us who grew up shooting Fuji Velvia at ISO 40 in order to give magazine editors the saturation and pallette they wanted (though in later years I found they loved Kodak 100SW, and I really loved that extra stop), decent performance at reasonable speeds like ISO 200 combined with image stabilization can make the difference between chasing stuff with a heavy, awkward tripod or skating around blithely with a nice, easily-handled monopod.

With APC sensor bodies, a 500/4 is adequate for bird photography, especially if you invest in a same-manufacturer 1.4x teleextender.  I bought my 600/4 back in the film days (and am looking to sell it, without much luck, thus far) but a 500/4 on an APC body is equivalent in field of view to an 800/4 on a film body.  Nice.

A 500/4 is noticably lighter than a 600/4 (Canon's is 8.5 lbs vs. 11.8 lbs) and cheaper.

I think it's true that Nikon still beats out Canon at the wide end, though Canon's high-end wide-angle zooms have greatly improved in the last decade.

I second Wes's endorsement of 80-200/2.8 lenses.

I've also been in love with my Canon 28-70/2.8 (now offered as a 24-70 2.8) for many, many years now.  Blindingly sharp.  So sharp, actually, that a manufacturer of a system to print digital images on photo paper (similar to the chromera system) selected one of my images shot with that lens to show off the level of fine detail and fine color rendition their printing system can deliver.  I'm old enough that I remember the days when zooms of any length were a real compromise regarding image quality.  Not so with today's better ones - however, they're expensive.

Hmm ... well, here's the image the printer manufacturer chose ... Canon 1N, Fuji Velvia, EF 28-70/2.8L at roughly 50mm, tripod, mirror lockup, and Monterey Bay giving me a nice neutral background for this pretty guy sitting on the railing of the Monterey Pier.


  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,19:19   

Quote

Question for Wes: when you did your resolution analysis for the same number of pixels on APC vs. full-frame, did you take into account resolution falloff at the edges?  One advantage of APC is that you're cutting out the sharper, center portion of the image circle when you use it with a lens designed for a full 35mm frame.


Nope. For long prime lenses of high quality, the MTF curves are far more similar center to edge than for wider lenses. For an example, see this page's MTF curves: once stopped down to f/8 or less, the center and edge performance is virtually identical. The particular  issue that I was addressing in the photo post was specifically about what the size of the sensor implied about resolution. APS-C and full-frame sensors of the same megapixel capacity have a clear resolution difference in favor of the larger sensor; whether that is balanced by edge resolution drop-off or not is going to depend on the specific lens: for some, that is a live issue, and for others it will not make that much of a difference. Generically, though, the back-of-the-envelope calculation I've done makes it such that a lens specifically for the APS-C needs about 1.5x the resolution capability overall of one for full-frame in order to make the total resolution come out even. I haven't done a survey of DX-style lens MTF figures, but I'd doubt offhand that those would generally exceed full-frame designs by that much in resolving power.

Quote

Anyway, I'd venture that in the field, any resolution difference due to sensor size when shooting wildlife with a long lens isn't worth worrying about.


I know that I could be getting  better resolution than my current camera offers by dropping $3,700 on a D700, $4,500 on a D3, or >$8,000 on a D3x, but given those are impossible numbers on my budget, I certainly don't worry about using APS-C sized sensors instead.

Once one starts running the sensor ISO setting up one isn't showing  ultimate concern for resolution, anyway. I often shoot at ISO 800 as a matter of course for outings with the dogs and hawks, just to keep the shutter speeds on the good side of 1/1,000th of a second as long as possible.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on April 05 2009,09:56

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2009,11:18   

Quote (dhogaza @ April 03 2009,18:37)
Quote
If the shit ever hits the fan big enough at Oak Ridge maybe I'll come be an Apache.

That's magic country ... the chiricahuas, dos cabezas, huachucas, animas ...

indeed, i was amazed at how much water there was, everywhere.  even fish in the streams.  wish i had grabbed a few.  can't weight to go back.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2009,15:18   

Quote
I know that I could be getting  better resolution than my current camera offers by dropping $3,700 on a D700, $4,500 on a D3, or >$8,000 on a D3x, but given those are impossible numbers on my budget, I certainly don't worry about using APS-C sized sensors instead.

And all this assumes you can fill the frame in the first place, while the truth is that a bird ain't necessarily going to let me get closer just because I'm using an $8K full-frame sensor body rather than my $1050 50D.  What I find is that I use my 1.4x extender a lot less often than I did shooting with a full-frame sensor (umm ... film).

And the film body didn't do 20 FPS HDTV, either.

I just gave away the last of my 35mm film, 27 rolls of B&W, about 75 rolls of chrome, to people happy to be living in the film age.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2009,19:32   

72 blacks and greys, including a bunch of thimbles.  about 20 big fat black ones, and probably 18 or so little tiny grey ones.  i love them, they are so dense and little.  very different cap color than all the others.  it is time, it is on, and i am stoked.  was afraid i'd miss the opening while i was out in the bush on holiday but it is all good.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2009,12:39   

A call from a local USFWS employee alerted us to the presence of 5 Whooping Cranes about 8 miles east of here. The migratory path of this endangered species, recovering but still perilously close to extinction, does not usually include our area, so this is a rare and exciting event. We scurried out to see them, and hear them trumpeting. It makes for a fine resurrection story on this Easter Sunday.



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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
rhmc



Posts: 340
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2009,18:59   

i went to visit the 2nd most threatened river in the u.s.
http://www.americanrivers.org/our-wor....nt.html

we were at a place called sprewell's bluff.
http://www.gastateparks.org/info/sprewell/

saw birdsfoot violets, trout lillies and many native azaleas...lots of granite cliffs and some serious whitewater...

we were supposed to take a 2 day canoe trip down the river and take out at sprewell's bluff but the recent deluges swamped our plans.  river was way too high to canoe safely...hell, it ain't all that safe at much lower levels.

'twere just as well as friday evening severe thunderstorms with embedded tornadoes swept through the area.  

tent camping isn't very reassuring in those conditions.
granma's house was much more comfortable...

we'll try again in early summer....

  
hereoisreal



Posts: 745
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 20 2009,17:36   

http://www.flixxy.com/cougar-vs-bear.htm

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360  miracles and more at:
http://www.hereoisreal.com/....eal.com

Great news. God’s wife is pregnant! (Rev. 12:5)

It's not over till the fat lady sings! (Isa. 54:1 & Zec 9:9)

   
rhmc



Posts: 340
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2009,19:19   

found a 4' black racer in the yard.  it was playing the "i'm a rattler" game.  it must be after the bumper crop of anoles and skinks we had last summer.

the last two michelia figo blooms of the season opened today.
no banana ever smelled that good.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2009,12:09   

Caught this feller this morning. Jays are pretty and there are plenty of them around my yard for me to practice on.



ETA: Canon EOS Rebel xs with standard 18 - 55 stabilized lens. ISO was set at 1600, manual focus, shutter speed 1/1000, F5.6 (I'm still figuring out what all that means and how to tweak it). Taken from about 20 yards, and this is a 40% image reduction and cropped for your viewing pleasure.

ETAA: Twitpic apparently will not allow me to hotlink my shot, so I uploaded to WordPress. WP may have done further compression.

Edited by Lou FCD on May 10 2009,13:21

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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2009,21:47   

An Eastern Bluebird on my gutter:



Somebody looks unhappy at having his photo taken:



and here's a better look at the bluebird's friend.



A few weeks ago I caught a luna moth with the cell camera:



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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2009,11:45   

I tried dropping the ISO and shutter speed to see what would happen.

I shot this red-bellied woodpecker out my bedroom window.



I think I went too low.

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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2009,12:28   

lou if you sprinkle salt on that little bastard's tail you can catch it

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2009,14:06   

I've seen a blue heron  couple times overhead.  Today I saw two bumblebees (I think they were having a property dispute).

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2009,15:04   

These are cropped versions of the two best shots I got of this little guy.

Any ideas on who he is? He was climbing the pine out back like a woodpecker, very small, and a long red streak from his beak, over his head, and down his back.

I took the shots quickly, and I know they suck, but I was afeared he'd get away.







--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2009,15:21   

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 11 2009,15:04)
These are cropped versions of the two best shots I got of this little guy.

Any ideas on who he is? He was climbing the pine out back like a woodpecker, very small, and a long red streak from his beak, over his head, and down his back.

I took the shots quickly, and I know they suck, but I was afeared he'd get away.

Brown-headed nuthatch (Sitta pusilla)

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2009,15:24   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ May 11 2009,16:21)
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 11 2009,15:04)
These are cropped versions of the two best shots I got of this little guy.

Any ideas on who he is? He was climbing the pine out back like a woodpecker, very small, and a long red streak from his beak, over his head, and down his back.

I took the shots quickly, and I know they suck, but I was afeared he'd get away.

Brown-headed nuthatch (Sitta pusilla)

Thanks, Alby!

I looked at that in my Peterson's, but thought it was wrong.

ETA: P.S. He's new to my list. That makes me happy.

Edited by Lou FCD on May 11 2009,16:27

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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
clamboy



Posts: 299
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2009,00:38   

Last weekend: muskrats; ravens; pigeons; deer mice; pocket mice; barn swallows; violet green swallows; some other species of swallow; red-winged blackbirds; a kingbird; a phoebe; canada geese; a gopher snake; a house finch; yellow headed blackbirds; cormorants; tree frogs; (probably) spotted bats; big sage brush; stiff sage brush; cheet grass (an invasive species); (heard) ring-necked pheasants; (heard) coyotes; a song sparrow; osprey; wild onion; etc.

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2009,11:28   

Quote
cheet grass (an invasive species)

Cheat grass - so named because bad guys would sneak the seeds in with whatever seedy/grainy thingy they were selling therefore cheating the purchaser.  Apparently that's how it got there.

Very bad stuff, BTW.  Has totally changed the fire ecology in western rangelands.  It grows quickly and browns early, leading to earlier and hotter fires in areas where it grows thickly (which is almost everywhere it shows up).

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2009,15:42   

We have oodles of turkey vultures around. This one was kind enough to fly over the house a little bit ago:



--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2009,15:47   

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 12 2009,16:42)
We have oodles of turkey vultures around. This one was kind enough to fly over the house a little bit ago:


I see them now and then.

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Richard Simons



Posts: 425
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2009,21:09   

Spring is slowly coming to the north end of Lake Winnipeg. In the past week I've seen various ducks - shoveller, pintail, green-winged teal, mallard, canvasback, redhead, lesser scaup, bufflehead - as well as red-necked and horned grebes and a loon. There are still snow-buntings passing through but the sandhill cranes and great blue herons are back. The birds of prey include bald eagles, merlins and one turkey vulture (well beyond its 'official' range but, as a colleague says, no doubt it knows a good garbage dump when it smells it). Today I saw the first robins, a palm warbler and a chipping sparrow.

The pussy willows are just past their best, the buds on the tamarack (larch) and poplars are starting to swell and if you look carefully at the school playing field the first shoots of grass are visible. Summer is on its way!

On a different topic, a few weeks ago I had a holiday in the Dominican Republic (Aah, sun!  Warmth!). The hotel had a series of ornamental ponds with many fish and frequented by great egrets and green herons. The egrets were mainly after the fish but also ate some of the bread that guests threw in for the fish. The green herons, though, would take a piece of bread, mash it up a bit and carefully put it in the water just within reach. If it did not attract any fish, they would move it to another spot and try again. Has anyone else seen birds using bait to attract prey like that?

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All sweeping statements are wrong.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 13 2009,08:12   

richard believe it or not i saw something like that on one of this shitty TV shows like Americas Funniest Home Videos or something similar

would be really innerstin' to know if there are examples like this from nature or is this a learned behavior that has arisen since people started throwing bread to green herons on boat docks etc

(see that would be intelligent agents introducing information into the environment...  ok i'll quit lol)

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 13 2009,10:18   

A sparrow of some sort?







--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
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