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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 491
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2015,20:29   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Jan. 06 2015,18:00)
 
Quote (k.e.. @ Jan. 06 2015,17:15)
   
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 07 2015,00:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Tedious and banal.

GG will probably think. you're referring to a law firm.

But probably not.

--------------
"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

"You could always wrap fresh fish in the paper you publish it on, though, and sell that." - Field Man on how to find value in Gary Gaulin's real-science "theory"

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 491
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2015,20:39   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 31 2014,03:29)
My dental problems are causing me serious agony today, and I'm in no mood for the usual shit from the psychos who enjoy making me suffer.

Gary, as you've frittered away years of your life on an inconsequential, insignificant "theory" in deference to your health, family and work, you alone are the main culprit behind your suffering, dental or otherwise.

You seem to enjoy it.

The 425 pages of evidence at hand strongly suggests you are psycho.

Therefore, you are in no mood for taking shit from yourself.

But here you are...

--------------
"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

"You could always wrap fresh fish in the paper you publish it on, though, and sell that." - Field Man on how to find value in Gary Gaulin's real-science "theory"

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2015,20:41   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 06 2015,16:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Hanging out at frat open houses is, indeed, unproductive.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2015,20:48   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 06 2015,20:41)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 06 2015,16:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Hanging out at frat open houses is, indeed, unproductive.

Gary as Flounder...

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2015,00:39   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 06 2015,18:48)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 06 2015,20:41)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 06 2015,16:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Hanging out at frat open houses is, indeed, unproductive.

Gary as Flounder...

In this case Delta House would be used in the Huxleyan sense...

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2015,03:35   

Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 07 2015,08:39)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 06 2015,18:48)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 06 2015,20:41)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 06 2015,16:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Hanging out at frat open houses is, indeed, unproductive.

Gary as Flounder...

In this case Delta House would be used in the Huxleyan sense...

Gary's brave new world has him performing unpaid dental pain experiments without collecting any data.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2015,06:22   

Here it is!


Neuron1Screen.png
Neuron1.asc

For the biological details see this, showing the same timing and the "artifact" I also get at each test pulse:


http://www.bem.fi/book.......19x.htm
Also:
http://openwetware.org/wiki.......O254:AP
http://people.eku.edu/ritchis....es2.htm

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2015,07:07   

And it is utterly, entirely, 100% irrelevant to your software and your "theory".  As well as banal and vapid.

At the very very best, far beyond what you've actually managed, you would have achieved the equivalent of showing a correlation, possibly even an identity function, between the number of telephone poles in New York in the mid-1980's and the number of live births in New York in the same time period.  

There are absolutely zero meaningful correlations between your circuits and what goes on in biology.  Not least are the problems that circuits don't "self-assemble" nor, more significantly, do they 'self-repair'.  Insights derived from either simply do not apply to the other.  You've learned nothing, you've provided nothing from which any learning can be extracted, other than the ancient lesson that you are a pathetic loon.

You have taken your previous 'Ministry of Silly Walks' approach to bioscience and/or cognitive science and turned them into a tragic reflection of the sad parody the 'tornado in a junk yard' absurdity beloved of ignorant creationists [but I repeat myself].

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2015,07:09   

It's about time we trotted this out for the first of many re-runs.
Quote (N.Wells @ Dec. 31 2014,09:31)
You've got a whole lot of transparent and ineffective distraction going on, Gary.
As NoName said earlier,
   
Quote
Stop deflecting, distracting, and denying.  Man up and deal with the facts on the ground:

A phenomenon is not properly called 'emergent' when it arises from a set of phenomena to which it is properly called 'self-similar'.  And vice versa.
Not all acts of 'intelligence' are motor acts, yet your "theory" insists otherwise.  This flies in the face of your assertion that your, or any competing, "theory" must "explain how ANY intelligence system works."
Deal with the fact that you smuggle 'intelligence' into your module with the undefined and uncharacterized 'guess' function.
Deal with the fact that 'guess' does not equal 'plan'.  Your "theory" is useless as a 'theory of intelligence' if it cannot deal with plans and planning.
Deal with the fact that many acts of intelligence involve imagination, and your "theory" does not deal with imagination at all.
Deal with the fact that some of the most crucial constraints on life are thermodynamic and that your "theory" simply ignores any and all thermodynamic issues.
Etc.

   
Quote
What is the ‘something’ that must be controlled when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that none of these require muscle activity of any sort.

What are the senses that address what memory/memories when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that each of these has been performed by individuals who lack the 'obvious' sensory modalities one would expect for the product.
Sub-question — what does it mean for memory to be sensory-addressed?  The naive view that has the senses directly writing to memory or directly “indicating” what memory to use and what to store there has been debunked many many years ago.  So what are you talking about here?

What is the measure of confidence to gauge failure and success when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Sub-question — what senses address what memory/memories in the creation, storage, and retrieval of the ‘confidence’ factor?  Is it analog or digital?  What process(es) modify it, at what points, and what difference does it make?

What is the ‘ABILITY TO TAKE A GUESS’?  How is it manifested and how is it utilized when  an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

What is a guess?  How does ‘guess’ relate to ‘plan’ and to ‘imagination?  Are there factors that feed into/influence the guess?  Is a guess random?  If not, what regularity does it exhibit?  Is it algorithmic?  What algorithm?  Or how is the specific algorithm used chosen?
What justifies embedding ‘guess’ into the “flow” that defines “intelligence” when the ability to guess is generally taken to be an act of intelligence?  How is it we only find guessing happening when we find ‘molecular intelligence’ in your sense, i.e., biology?
(You do realize that a random number generator in a computer program does not ‘guess’?)


And questions from me:
   
Quote
Why is your rubbish not made obsolete by Edgar Postrado's rubbish?

   
Quote

It is also unreasonable to expect out of place detail that would limit the theory to only one level of intelligence (brains) of a model that has to work for any behavior, intelligent or not.


Since you see intelligence darn near everywhere at all levels, in your opinion what behavior would qualify as not intelligent, and why?


(What's the ideal time for a dental appointment?
2:30)

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,12:48   

-i wonder if maybe this might be what Gary needs to complete his project in 2015?

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,14:29   

Not until he finishes wiring up his Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,18:28   

Quote (Quack @ Jan. 09 2015,12:48)
-i wonder if maybe this might be what Gary needs to complete his project in 2015?

Which project? I currently have around a dozen that lead into more science work than I or anyone could ever complete in one lifetime.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,18:34   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 06 2015,20:41)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 06 2015,16:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Hanging out at frat open houses is, indeed, unproductive.

If this one here unites in chanting "Toga, toga, toga.." then it will finally get too weird for me, and I'll have to be outta here in a jiffy.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,18:56   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,19:34)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 06 2015,20:41)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 06 2015,16:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Hanging out at frat open houses is, indeed, unproductive.

If this one here unites in chanting "Toga, toga, toga.." then it will finally get too weird for me, and I'll have to be outta here in a jiffy.

Is that a threat or a promise?

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,19:06   

Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 06 2015,20:39)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 31 2014,03:29)
My dental problems are causing me serious agony today, and I'm in no mood for the usual shit from the psychos who enjoy making me suffer.

Gary, as you've frittered away years of your life on an inconsequential, insignificant "theory" in deference to your health, family and work, you alone are the main culprit behind your suffering, dental or otherwise.

You seem to enjoy it.

The 425 pages of evidence at hand strongly suggests you are psycho.

Therefore, you are in no mood for taking shit from yourself.

But here you are...

Then maybe it's kinda like these voices (still loudly repeating in my mind) say to/for me, which I heard (transmitted by WTIC radio) during my commute to work today?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....llTLvuA

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,19:26   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,18:28)
Which project? I currently have around a dozen that lead into more science work than I or anyone could ever complete in one lifetime.

There's an analogy to be drawn between your 'more science than can be done in a lifetime' and the Augean stables, except that the Augean stables were slightly less full of manure.  "I or anyone" is an hilarious but entirely false equivalence, because you are not on track to accomplish any science at all, unlike people who apply scientific methodology, use operational definitions, do hypothesis-testing, and so on and so forth.  You have to be doing some science to accomplish some.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,19:29   

Quote (khan @ Jan. 09 2015,18:56)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,19:34)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 06 2015,20:41)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 06 2015,16:55)
Make that 350mV. I have to stop rushing!

Hanging out at frat open houses is, indeed, unproductive.

If this one here unites in chanting "Toga, toga, toga.." then it will finally get too weird for me, and I'll have to be outta here in a jiffy.

Is that a threat or a promise?

It is a comical threat seriously meant to be taken with ample humor.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,19:46   

Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,19:26)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,18:28)
Which project? I currently have around a dozen that lead into more science work than I or anyone could ever complete in one lifetime.

There's an analogy to be drawn between your 'more science than can be done in a lifetime' and the Augean stables, except that the Augean stables were slightly less full of manure.  "I or anyone" is an hilarious but entirely false equivalence, because you are not on track to accomplish any science at all, unlike people who apply scientific methodology, use operational definitions, doing hypothesis-testing, and so on and so forth.  You have to be doing some science to accomplish some.

One thing for sure: Darwinian theory certainly left a barnfull of conclusions that turned out to be bullshit. The selection didit answers for the origin of intelligence need more shoveling.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,20:18   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,19:46)
Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,19:26)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,18:28)
Which project? I currently have around a dozen that lead into more science work than I or anyone could ever complete in one lifetime.

There's an analogy to be drawn between your 'more science than can be done in a lifetime' and the Augean stables, except that the Augean stables were slightly less full of manure.  "I or anyone" is an hilarious but entirely false equivalence, because you are not on track to accomplish any science at all, unlike people who apply scientific methodology, use operational definitions, doing hypothesis-testing, and so on and so forth.  You have to be doing some science to accomplish some.

One thing for sure: Darwinian theory certainly left a barnfull of conclusions that turned out to be bullshit. The selection didit answers for the origin of intelligence need more shoveling.

So far you have failed to back up your dislike of selection with anything other than assertions that are both hollow and false.  Can't you do any better?

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,20:43   

Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,20:18)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,19:46)
Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,19:26)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,18:28)
Which project? I currently have around a dozen that lead into more science work than I or anyone could ever complete in one lifetime.

There's an analogy to be drawn between your 'more science than can be done in a lifetime' and the Augean stables, except that the Augean stables were slightly less full of manure.  "I or anyone" is an hilarious but entirely false equivalence, because you are not on track to accomplish any science at all, unlike people who apply scientific methodology, use operational definitions, doing hypothesis-testing, and so on and so forth.  You have to be doing some science to accomplish some.

One thing for sure: Darwinian theory certainly left a barnfull of conclusions that turned out to be bullshit. The selection didit answers for the origin of intelligence need more shoveling.

So far you have failed to back up your dislike of selection with anything other than assertions that are both hollow and false.  Can't you do any better?

I already more than proved my point. But for a repeat: Hold your noses!

The Origin of Intelligence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....K3A57Hk

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2015,23:31   

You have not proved your point, and that video doesn't help you.  He indeed argues for defining intelligence or proto-intelligence in an unusual way, more along the lines that you would like, but he shows no self-similarity with lower levels or higher levels, there is nothing going on beyond the standard laws of chemistry and physics, and the evolution of nylonase is eminently and classically subject to selection in the right context.  Also nothing he talks about is addressed by your foraging bug computer model.  In short, you get no traction here whatsoever.

Also note that unlike you, he provides actual definitions.

Why don't you critique his presentations where he specifically addresses natural selection? (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....3x6vvzM )

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2015,07:23   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 09 2015,21:43)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,20:18)
...
So far you have failed to back up your dislike of selection with anything other than assertions that are both hollow and false.  Can't you do any better?

I already more than proved my point. ...

Bullshit, mendacious nonsense.  A flat-out LIE.  

To date you have proven nothing whatsoever.
Link to said proof, or shut the fuck up about it.  And no, links to tedious youtube videos are not links to "proof".

Meanwhile, in the reality based community, we have proven that your claims range from the trivial, banal, obvious and non-controversial, through the self-contradictory, self-vitiating, incoherent, and unsupportable, to the utterly insane.
See above, on this and the immediately preceding page.  And the bulk of the preceding 425+ pages.  And the trail of rubbish you've spewed across the internet.
res ipsa loquitur

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2015,08:35   

A few of Gary's core problems and misunderstandings:

Gary appears to make the all-too-common (especially in ID) mistake of conceiving selection as a positive process.  That is, in Gary's world, selection is always selection for.
This is strictly false.  Selection is strictly negative.  It removes those things that fail in a given environment.  It is always selection against.  Were this not so, the concept of 'neutral drift' would be impossible.
If only Gary, and the rest of the varied and various 'ID' folks, would genuinely come to grips with this.  It clears out so much of the underbrush and tangles that confuse their every approach.

Gary insists that intelligence requires motor control.  The world generally recognizes both the composition of a melody and the recognition of a melody, especially transposed and in a different tempo and perhaps also different rhythm, are acts of intelligence.  This refutes one of Gary's foundational quasi-axioms.
He must either show that these are not acts of intelligence, or specify how motor control is involved.  Neither seems a productive effort, as in 'both are doomed to fail'.

Gary tries to sweep the problem of control under the rug by recourse to assertions of 'emergence' and a vague hand-waving in the direction of different "levels" of intelligence.  But that approach is doomed to fail because at the level of atoms and individual molecules, there are no motor control systems.  Nor can the concept of 'control' be applied at those levels.  There are only the laws of chemistry and physics.  Gary becomes especially incoherent, or, more often, absent from the discussion, when he is pressed on this problem.

Gary tries to work around the problem above by insisting that the emergent levels are 'self similar'.  As N.Wells originally pointed out, this is a massive conceptual confusion.  Things that are emergent from other things are not self-similar to that from which they emerge.  Things that are self-similar do not display relationships of emergence, least of all at the same time and in the same respect.

Gary is vociferous  in his rejection of 'generalizations', despite the simple fact that explanations, hypotheses, and theories are all generalizations.  Worse, 'intelligence' is a highly general term, and it is a wild leap into the dark to act as if the term were univocal and had a 'one size fits all' explanation.  It seems quite likely to me that 'intelligence' is much more of a 'catch-all' term for a wide class of phenomena than a univocal singular phenomenon as Gary requires it to be.
But regardless, Gary has not shown that it is a univocal term and that is one of the many foundational pre-requisistes he simply must accomplish before any of his subsequent effluent can be taken seriously.  As it stands, one could replace the word 'intelligence' in any of Gary's work with a meaningless pseudo-word and remove not one tinge of sense from the whole.

Finally, Gary smuggles the acts and concept of intelligence into his "model" by recourse to the generalization "guess".  The ability to "guess" and to "gauge the success/failure" of the guess are claimed to be foundational for intelligence.
The rest of the world, including his beloved, but maligned by his asserted association, Cognitive Science, knows better.  Guessing is itself an act of intelligence.  Molecules don't guess.  Rocks don't guess.  Stars don't guess.
Gauging success/failure is also an act of intelligence.  Atoms don't judge success/failure.  Nor do rocks or stars or any of the vast number of things and events and process not generally taken to be intelligent.
So Gary assumes the very thing he seeks to explain in his purported explanation, rendering the entire effort vacuous at best, self-contradictory on average, and tediously insane at worst.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2015,23:52   

For those who need something to help them fall asleep:

The Origin of the Brain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....QG9WTZM

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2015,07:25   

Absent from the discussion, as predicted.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2015,11:29   

Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,23:31)
You have not proved your point, and that video doesn't help you.  He indeed argues for defining intelligence or proto-intelligence in an unusual way, more along the lines that you would like, but he shows no self-similarity with lower levels or higher levels, there is nothing going on beyond the standard laws of chemistry and physics, and.....

Or in other words: you only allow religious explanations from those who do not belong to your (anti)religious clubhouse that only corrupts science in order to advance a religious agenda.

I'm not at all interested in arguing over your ambiguous generalizations that form the basis of your religion.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2015,11:57   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 11 2015,11:29)
Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,23:31)
You have not proved your point, and that video doesn't help you.  He indeed argues for defining intelligence or proto-intelligence in an unusual way, more along the lines that you would like, but he shows no self-similarity with lower levels or higher levels, there is nothing going on beyond the standard laws of chemistry and physics, and.....

Or in other words: you only allow religious explanations from those who do not belong to your (anti)religious clubhouse that only corrupts science in order to advance a religious agenda.

I'm not at all interested in arguing over your ambiguous generalizations that form the basis of your religion.

Your "explanation" doesn't actually explain anything.  I'd accept a "religious" explanation if it came with valid supporting evidence, but all you've got are hollow assertions.  

In part paraphrasing NoName's language,
Deal with the fact that you smuggle 'intelligence' into your module with the undefined and uncharacterized 'guess' function.

Deal with the fact that 'guess' does not equal 'plan'

Deal with the fact that many acts of intelligence involve imagination, and your "theory" does not deal with imagination at all.

Deal with the fact that some of the most crucial constraints on life are thermodynamic and that your "theory" simply ignores any and all thermodynamic issues.

What is the ‘something’ that must be controlled when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

What are the senses that address what memory/memories when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

What is the measure of confidence to gauge failure and success when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

What is the ‘ABILITY TO TAKE A GUESS’?  How is it manifested and how is it utilized when  an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

Why is your rubbish not made obsolete by Edgar Postrado's rubbish?

Since you see intelligence darn near everywhere at all levels, in your opinion what behavior would qualify as not intelligent, and why?

Provide operational definitions for your terms, some suporting evidence, and some logically valid potentially falsifiable tests of hypotheses.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2015,12:02   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 11 2015,11:29)
Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 09 2015,23:31)
You have not proved your point, and that video doesn't help you.  He indeed argues for defining intelligence or proto-intelligence in an unusual way, more along the lines that you would like, but he shows no self-similarity with lower levels or higher levels, there is nothing going on beyond the standard laws of chemistry and physics, and.....

Or in other words: you only allow religious explanations from those who do not belong to your (anti)religious clubhouse that only corrupts science in order to advance a religious agenda.

I'm not at all interested in arguing over your ambiguous generalizations that form the basis of your religion.

Translation from the Gaulinese: "saying that standard chemistry and physics doesn't include molecules making guesses is a religion because I'm too ignorant to realize I can't just make up behaviors for atoms and molecules.  Since I don't want to admit that my nonsense flies in the face of what is already known about chemistry, I'll pretend that people who have a better than middle school education in chemistry are trying to call my silliness supernatural so I can call them followers of an anti-religious religion."

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2015,12:14   

I'm busy studying scientist level science papers. This one is very very good:

Calcium Signaling
David E. Clapham,
doi:10.1016/j.cell.2007.11.028
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science....7015310

Quote
Main Text
In the furnaces of the stars the elements evolved from hydrogen. When oxygen and neon captured successive α particles, the element calcium was born. Roughly 10 billion years later, cell membranes began to parse the world by charge, temporarily and locally defying relentless entropy. To adapt to changing environments, cells must signal, and signaling requires messengers whose concentration varies with time. Filling this role, calcium ions (Ca2+) and phosphate ions have come to rule cell signaling. Here, I describe our current understanding of Ca2+-mediated signaling (complementing several excellent reviews [Berridge, 2005, Burgoyne, 2007, Carafoli, 2004, Petersen, 2005 and Rizzuto and Pozzan, 2006]) and place particular emphasis on emerging themes related to Ca2+ binding proteins, Ca2+ entry across the plasma membrane, and the localized nature of Ca2+ signals.


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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
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Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2015,12:18   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 11 2015,12:14)
I'm busy studying scientist level science papers. This one is very very good:

Calcium Signaling
David E. Clapham,
doi:10.1016/j.cell.2007.11.028
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science....7015310

 
Quote
Main Text
In the furnaces of the stars the elements evolved from hydrogen. When oxygen and neon captured successive α particles, the element calcium was born. Roughly 10 billion years later, cell membranes began to parse the world by charge, temporarily and locally defying relentless entropy. To adapt to changing environments, cells must signal, and signaling requires messengers whose concentration varies with time. Filling this role, calcium ions (Ca2+) and phosphate ions have come to rule cell signaling. Here, I describe our current understanding of Ca2+-mediated signaling (complementing several excellent reviews [Berridge, 2005, Burgoyne, 2007, Carafoli, 2004, Petersen, 2005 and Rizzuto and Pozzan, 2006]) and place particular emphasis on emerging themes related to Ca2+ binding proteins, Ca2+ entry across the plasma membrane, and the localized nature of Ca2+ signals.

Feel free to quote any passages that show calcium ions guessing.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
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