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Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,00:38    Whoa! I haven't seen this post before. Another countdown! I love countdowns. WAD: "I do not bluff, I do not take prisoners." Now, see? The guy kills me. It's just like a valentine (and BTW I love you too, Dr. Lenny). Boy the countdowns are accumulating over at UD, like a bunch of Paley watches scattered on the sands and all showing a different hour. Isn't there something about not building your house, or your theory, on a beach, but rather upon a rock, like Mount Improbable? Heavy. Ooh. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,00:43    countdowns add dynamic tension! I challenge you to watch this countdown to the end of this missive! 1 2 5 3 sir! 3! -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,06:37    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 02 2007,22:20) Dave pauses a LONG time, trying to decide if this is flattery or sarcasm.  Can't decide.  (Me neither) Well, he did finally respond and it contains a gem of a comment:     Quote It’s not that DCA (or ID) is wrong, both are untested ID is untested? I am shocked!  Shocked, I say! I would have thought that before Behe and Dembski wrote all those books, the hypothesis must have undergone the rigorous scrutiny needed for it to topple the prevailing theory. Hey, wait a minute.  Isn't Dave a self-made Dell-made millionaire?  Maybe he could finance those DCA trials. Put his considerable wealth where his considerable mouth is. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,07:33    Meanwhile over at OE, Troutmac gets introduced to the very same Davescot: http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe....ent-971   Quote   Quote Now, what I wanna know is this… I can figure that out and I'm not even college educated. So why can't Barbara Forrest or any of these other numbskulls with a list of educational credentials as long as my arm figure it out? It's as plain as the nose on your face. They're chasing their tails. It's absolutely insane!! Well, perhaps those tens of thousands of working scientists see something that you are overlooking. It takes a long time, maybe even decades, and a lot of confirming research for a new scientific theory to enter the mainstream. ID has yet to make that walk. After all, according to ID researcher David Springer, ID is still untested: http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2019#comment-89258 I wonder how long it will last before it gets flushed to the memory hole?  At least it stayed around long enough to make my morning. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

fusilier Posts: 252 Joined: Feb. 2003 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,08:15    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 02 2007,21:07) For the movie version of Doverloo, it's too bad Amrish Puri is dead. {snip of details} Yeah, but Wes Studi is still around Only thing is, Col. Munro was a pretty decent fellow. fusilier, surfacing from lurk mode James 2:24 -------------- fusilier James 2:24

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,08:24    scordova       Quote Let me add this quote by Godel himself (from End of Materialist Science): Um, that makes it look like Gödel wrote the article. Anyway, here is the purported Gödelian quote. “The formation within geological time of a human body,” Kurt Gödel remarked to the logician Hao Wang, “by the laws of physics (or any other laws of similar nature), starting from a random distribution of elementary particles and the field, is as unlikely as the separation by chance of the atmosphere into its components.” Of course, it takes cosmological time-scales, not geologic ones. The first few billion years of the history of the cosmos concern the forging of elements, galaxies and stars. scordova goes on to quote Berlinsky   Quote Under the double action of the fundamental laws and chance, Godel was persuaded, no form of complexity could reasonably be expected to arise. This is not an argument, of course; it functions merely as a claim, although one made with the authority of Godel’s genius. In fact, we know that complex molecules can spontaneously assemble in the least likely of places. Atoms themselves are complex structures that spontaneously assemble, as are planetary systems. So we have a hierarchy of structures spontaneously assembling. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,08:24    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 02 2007,23:38) I hope you don't ban me for asking, but what's the link for that? http://www.wesjones.com/gorilla.htm

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,08:32    Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 03 2007,08:33) Now, what I wanna know is this… I can figure that out and I'm not even college educated. So why can't Barbara Forrest or any of these other numbskulls with a list of educational credentials as long as my arm figure it out? Every week from the creationists you hear some version of "I wonder why all the scientists cant figure out that their wrong? I can figur it out and I failed the GED." It's kind of endearingly stupid.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,08:38    ejsecco Quote Abiogenesis occurred through a Divine Act. Life forms have changed over the many years, but only within narrow confined limits. The evidence indicates otherwise. We know that entire ecosystems have come and gone. We can observe a fossil succession forming a nested hierarchy of descent. ejsecco Quote One species did not give birth (or otherwise) to another. This is also incorrect. We have strong evidence of speciation, observe gradients of reproductive isolation, and observe various mechanisms of reproductive isolation. ejsecco Quote A blade of grass did not somehow evolve into an elephant. Correct! Grass and elephants have their own unique evolutionary histories. Their common ancestor lived eons ago. ejsecco Quote Nonexistence is the most stable state there is. That is not known to be a fact and there is some evidence that it is not true. Consider vacuum energy. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,09:02    HaEris   Quote Have you noticed any time you debate the Evolution controversy with one of it’s fundamentalists, they quickly change the subject? "Fundamentalists"? Leaving aside the improper appellation, I do see that they get banned from your site. SBWillie   Quote Methodological naturalism is the statement that the non-material cannot exist and is therefore not worth investigating. That is precisely incorrect. Methodological naturalism makes no philosophical claims whatsoever. quizzlestick   Quote Exactly, there are so many gaps in the fossil record. This absence of evidence is some of the biggest evidence we have for the proof of ID. The only time that evolution will be proven is when every single gap known to science has been closed. In a nutshell. God ID-of-the-Gaps. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

N.Wells Posts: 1836 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,11:28    From http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/160 Dembski talking about scientists not accepting ID (please turn down your irony meters now): Quote The mountains of evidence [for ID] are already there. The problem is that evidence is itself inherently hermeneutical, influenced by cognitive predispositions to interpret certain types of data as supporting/confirming certain types of conclusions.

phonon Posts: 396 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,11:44    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 02 2007,22:33) Quote When I was about 11, I was taken to an "exorcism" by my mother. Great childhood I had. phonon; holy crap (literally)! for reals? Yup, ferrealz. When I was about 9 or 10 she "got saved" and went all nutty with it. I think her boss at the time got her into it. He was a really nice guy with a great sense of humor, but he had all these nutty ideas and all these nutty friends and she'd take me to his house for a sort of Bible Study on weekends. Even at the time, I thought they were weird, but I went because I didn't have much choice. At one of these meetings one of the leaders was going to drive the demon out of this 17 year old kid who was "possessed." The kid even went through some Exorcist type hissing and growling. He even went so far to writhe on the floor for a bit, changing voices once and a while. At the end, I suppose the power of Jesus Christ won out and the kid was saved from evil. Or something. Hey, I think it has been a record month for UD. http://www.business-opportunities.biz/project....g-worth It's worth $124,198.80 Any takers? -------------- With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

phonon Posts: 396 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,12:04    http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2020 Dave, let's correct some of your idiotic post. Shall we? Quote DCA is an inexpensive, uncontrolled chemical hailed as a potential cure for cancer that anyone can buy. It's not hailed as a cure, except by people that are doing a lot of wishful thinking. At best it would be another treatment in the arsenal against cancer. Quote DCA is not technically an orphan drug by definition since it treats one of the most common afflictions known to mankind What disease is this? You should specify. If you mean it currently treats cancer in humans, that's obviously wrong. Also, cancer is not a single disease. Quote It meets the orphan definition in that there’s little or no profit incentive in it. This is also false. A lot of the research that goes into a drug is formulation. Just synthesizing a new drug is not enough. Formulation is very important and new formulations of DCA could be patentable and profitable. Also, smaller drug companies could easily profit from DCA sales. If DCA really does turn out to be a "miracle cure" (we'll have to see about that one) then there would be an immense market and and immense demand for this compound. The price would likely rise, if not skyrocket, at least at first. If at the same time DCA was shown to only "cure" cancers when tumor cells are specifically targeted, then formulations and specialized treatments using the drug would be quite profitable. Quote This link provides a list of 18 suppliers in case anyone is interested in starting a clinical test of this drug that’s already been approved for clinical testing in humans for a number of different ailments other than cancer. My eyes bugged out at this. Why don't you start in your basement, Dave? Surely you have the clearance to start clinical trials. Don't you? Oh, well, I guess Troutmac or gildodgen must have the facilities and proper paperwork all in order. ####, maybe you maverick ID scientists could just line up and start shooting up the stuff in your living rooms. If you don't get cancer, that's a positive, right? Oy. Quote bFast 02/03/2007 12:18 pm Maybe this is why this drug isn’t on the front page of Time. ‘No use promoting a drug that just heals people, and doesn’t make any money. However, orfan or not, some responsible organization needs to monitor and properly evaluate DCA for dosage, efficacy and side effects. Its still a drug. All I’ll say is, if I were dying of cancer, I’d be trying the thing — with or without my doctor’s approval. That's the spirit!! Your doctor is probably in on the big pharma conspiracy anyway. That Darwinist. -------------- With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,12:12    Quote 3 February 2007 DCA - The Patent Pending Treatment Protocol DaveScot In case anyone was wondering, the international patent application for DCA as a cancer cure is available for anyone to read. DCA is an inexpensive, uncontrolled chemical hailed as a potential cure for cancer that anyone can buy. Quote bFast 02/03/2007 12:18 pm Maybe this is why this drug isn’t on the front page of Time. ‘No use promoting a drug that just heals people, and doesn’t make any money. Jesus H. Christ. This guy actually thinks Time is ignoring a breakthrough cure for cancer because somebody else won't make any money off it? WOW.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,12:17    Quote Maybe he could finance those DCA trials. Put his considerable wealth where his considerable mouth is. he already did; don't you remember those intricate mushroom growing experiments he funded in his own cellar? amazing stuff, that was. :p -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,12:25    Quote Yup, ferrealz. When I was about 9 or 10 she "got saved" and went all nutty with it. I think her boss at the time got her into it. He was a really nice guy with a great sense of humor, but he had all these nutty ideas and all these nutty friends and she'd take me to his house for a sort of Bible Study on weekends. Even at the time, I thought they were weird, but I went because I didn't have much choice. At one of these meetings one of the leaders was going to drive the demon out of this 17 year old kid who was "possessed." The kid even went through some Exorcist type hissing and growling. He even went so far to writhe on the floor for a bit, changing voices once and a while. At the end, I suppose the power of Jesus Christ won out and the kid was saved from evil. Or something. sounds like your poor mom got snookered into a cult. it also sounds like you have fertile grounds for an excellent book, should you have the stomach for it. you should talk to a publicist. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,12:25    No one in science is safe from the ID sleaze: Quote 2 February 2007 Doctor David H. Gorski doth protest too much, methinks DaveScot Get this from Orac (a.k.a. DH Gorski) at Respectful Insolence. Here’s a cutter/researcher who makes a living from cancer. Orac beats up on Dave a bit. http://scienceblogs.com/insolen....i_1.php If you ever find me siding with Davescot over Orac on the matter of cancer, you'll know I've traded my normal vices of alcohol and tobaccy for some straight up crack rock.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,12:52    Quote Why don't you start in your basement, Dave? Surely you have the clearance to start clinical trials. Don't you? Oh, well, I guess Troutmac or gildodgen must have the facilities and proper paperwork all in order. ####, maybe you maverick ID scientists could just line up and start shooting up the stuff in your living rooms. If you don't get cancer, that's a positive, right? Oy. bah, cancer nothin'; I've been using it for years to keep elephants out of my living room. works perfect. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,12:59    Quote (phonon @ Feb. 03 2007,13:04) Why don't you start in your basement, Dave? Surely you have the clearance to start clinical trials. Don't you? Oh, well, I guess Troutmac or gildodgen must have the facilities and proper paperwork all in order. ####, maybe you maverick ID scientists could just line up and start shooting up the stuff in your living rooms. If you don't get cancer, that's a positive, right? Oy. I don't understand the brouhaha over this.  ID research has already found a cure for cancer....man-mustard. (Yea!  My 666th post.)

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,13:02    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 03 2007,12:12) Quote 3 February 2007 DCA - The Patent Pending Treatment Protocol DaveScot In case anyone was wondering, the international patent application for DCA as a cancer cure is available for anyone to read. DCA is an inexpensive, uncontrolled chemical hailed as a potential cure for cancer that anyone can buy. Quote bFast 02/03/2007 12:18 pm Maybe this is why this drug isn’t on the front page of Time. ‘No use promoting a drug that just heals people, and doesn’t make any money. Jesus H. Christ. This guy actually thinks Time is ignoring a breakthrough cure for cancer because somebody else won't make any money off it? WOW. Shouldn't surprise us at all. These are people who are completely convinced that Intelligent Design is Absolute Truth, that it's obviously right, and that the only thing holding it back is a wicked 'priesthood' (WD's pet word) of atheist liberal materialist scientists. So they're already well primed to believe in sweeping conspiracies to explain why the rest of the world doesn't share their beliefs. After a while, these 'priesthoods' can be blamed for anything. This is a foolproof way of never having to say "maybe I'm all wrong about this?". -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,13:11    Quote DaveScot 02/03/2007 Sodium dichloracetate is not a controlled substance and is available from many chemical suppliers... I don’t know if I’d try it myself but I’d probably give it whirl if one of my dogs had cancer. So, DaveScot's idea of a clinical trial is to toss the stuff into his dog's dish. Clearly, internalizing all that hard core ID research has honed a fine scientific mind. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,13:32    I can't tell what O'Leary is babbling about here. She seems to be saying that John Horgan may be right that science is mostly over, but that's only methodomological naturilizim and new Jesus Science is going to kick it into overdrive. Probably the smallest fatal problem with this idea is that Horgan was completely wrong. To see the fallacy in Horgan's reasoning, let's look at the fields of cosmology and neuroscience, two of the fields he considers. In cosmology, we have already had, since this book was written, the completely unforeseen discovery that the expansion of the universe is accelerating. This implies (most likely) that the universe is filled with a substance that physicists call dark energy. This makes a substantial change in our view of both the universe and fundamental theories of physics.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,14:00    DeAr  MRs. Dave Scot Dembski: I herd you was financing science tests about some cancer thing, so I have a new kind of motor you might could be intrested in. It takes ordnary water and makes cars run, and its mine cause I got the pattent on it. If you sent me money, I would sell it to you and you can fight the big OIL compnies that been keeping me in hiding all these years, since you are scientists.                   Thank you kindly, Cletus J. TroutMac -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,14:09    Quote This implies (most likely) that the universe is filled with a substance that physicists call dark energy. This makes a substantial change in our view of both the universe and fundamental theories of physics... Dense O'Leary "the universe is filled with a substance called dark energy" *snort, guffaw* Your cranium, madam, is filled with a "substance" called vacuum. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,14:21    Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 03 2007,14:09) "the universe is filled with a substance called dark energy" *snort, guffaw* Your cranium, madam, is filled with a "substance" called vacuum. LOL, really. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,14:24    ROTFL. TroutMac seyz Quote I don't know what Dave Springer meant by what he said. Join the club Trouty, join the club.... And I'm guessing DS does not know alot of the time either. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,14:54    Quote (phonon @ Feb. 03 2007,11:44) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 02 2007,22:33)   Quote When I was about 11, I was taken to an "exorcism" by my mother. Great childhood I had. phonon; holy crap (literally)! for reals? Yup, ferrealz. When I was about 9 or 10 she "got saved" and went all nutty with it. I think her boss at the time got her into it. He was a really nice guy with a great sense of humor, but he had all these nutty ideas and all these nutty friends and she'd take me to his house for a sort of Bible Study on weekends. Even at the time, I thought they were weird, but I went because I didn't have much choice. At one of these meetings one of the leaders was going to drive the demon out of this 17 year old kid who was "possessed." The kid even went through some Exorcist type hissing and growling. He even went so far to writhe on the floor for a bit, changing voices once and a while. At the end, I suppose the power of Jesus Christ won out and the kid was saved from evil. Or something. BTW: 1984    "Manifestations of Possession in Novel Ecological Contexts," G. S. Hurd, E. M. Pattison. in Ecological Models in Clinical and Community Mental Health, W.A. O'Connor and B. Lubin (ed.s).  John Wiley & Sons: New York. 1985    "Trance and Possession States," E. M. Pattison, Joel Kahan, G. Hurd. In Handbook of Altered States of Consciousness.  B. B. Walman and M. Ullman (ed.s) New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold.         1985    "Superstition,"  G. S. Hurd. In Baker's Encyclopedia of Psychology. David Brenner (ed.) Baker Book House, Grand Rapids. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,15:21    Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 03 2007,14:00) DeAr  MRs. Dave Scot Dembski: I herd you was financing science tests about some cancer thing, so I have a new kind of motor you might could be intrested in. It takes ordnary water and makes cars run, and its mine cause I got the pattent on it. If you sent me money, I would sell it to you and you can fight the big OIL compnies that been keeping me in hiding all these years, since you are scientists.                   Thank you kindly, Cletus J. TroutMac Dude, you have got it all wrong.  Big Oil are the good guys.  They are the only thing standing between us and the global-warming-anistas. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,15:49    Quote (phonon @ Feb. 03 2007,11:44) Hey, I think it has been a record month for UD. http://www.business-opportunities.biz/project....g-worth It's worth $124,198.80 Any takers? Hey, that is way cool.  Let's try some others: Pharyngula:  Your blog, scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/, is worth $1,212,631.92 Panda's Thumb:  Your blog, www.pandasthumb.org, is worth $541,958.40 JanieBelle:  Your blog, udoj.wordpress.com/, is worth $20,323.44 Kristine:  Your blog, amused-muse.blogspot.com, is worth $15,242.58 Denyse: Your blog, mindfulhack.blogspot.com/, is worth $2,258.16 OE:  Your blog, www.overwhelmingevidence.com, is worth $0.00 -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2007,16:45    Wow, lots has happened since I went to the library this morning, I think? (And not 3 days ago? Ow, my head.)     Quote I can't tell what O'Leary is babbling about here. Geez, for the second time I can. She's latched onto that stupid End of Science book (the one that keeps getting refiled onto the "Religion" shelf in the library bookstore and I'm not the one doing it)--science is not making new discoveries, it's hit the ceiling, it's dying, blah. She's beginning to sound like JAD (she's getting JADed about science?). I'm worth worth $15,242.58? Well, I'll take it.   Quote the universe is filled with a substance called dark energy So full of it their eyes are substance. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

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