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Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,21:20    hmm, yes, I believe Lenny was banned from PZ threads at PT; not sure about PZ's blog itself. I feel uncomfortable discussing Lenny's situation, as I'm sure many are, simply because most of us can hold up a mirror and see a lot of Lenny. moreover, unlike many, lenny has actually done a lot of legwork and research in the area of creationism, and has published several essays that I at least found quite useful. I find myself referring to his documentation of court cases and the history of creationism quite often. I would only encourage Lenny to assume that the dolts he responds to here have never read any of his essays, or have any real knowledge of the subjects they choose to expound on for that matter, and perhaps to contribute some of what he has learned over the years when appropriate, instead of just boilerplate. i can understand that this takes effort that might be deemed wasted on the target.  I just would volunteer that it would always be appreciated by everyone else, including myself, for whatever it's worth. *shrug* OTOH, one of the obvious values of ATBC is being able to reliably vent frustrations from dealing with idiocy over years and years of trials and tribulations, and I'm just as sure that at least a part of that needs to remain here. 3 post rule might work? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Steviepinhead Posts: 532 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,21:31    My sense is that stevestory was more concerned about how we were beginning to behave among ourselves (Louis vs. GoP*; Louis vs. demallien--sorry, Louis, I love ya babe, but you do keep winding up in these imbroglios), than he was about how we treated the incoming tards. I'm certainly willing to try to tone it down a db or two.  It don't mean we can't have fun, we just have to go about it by slightly more subtle and devious means. I'm gonna try to treat it as a challenge, instead of a constraint. ___ *Concededly, GoP is only very provisionally one of "us"...

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,21:45    Subtlety and deviousness are good, no? I remind everyone, the Bathroom Wall is pretty much free of moderation, and remains available for those most splenetic posts.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,21:53    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 01 2007,21:09) Did PZ ban Lenny, or am I misremembering? I think he did.  Although I'm not sure, since I've never . . .  uh . . . . *posted* anything at PZ's blog.  (shrug) He did delete me from all his PT threads, though.  Until everyone jumped all over his shit and he relented.  Then deleted me again. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,21:55    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 01 2007,21:20) I feel uncomfortable discussing Lenny's situation, as I'm sure many are, simply because most of us can hold up a mirror and see a lot of Lenny. Man, if I saw Lenny in a mirror sneaking up behind me, I would scream! Especially if he had on his chainmail and had a big axe.  :O -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,21:59    OK I'm going to cut being nasty to DT I'm not going  to use the prejoritive term 'tard when describing him. So Dave 'tard becomes Dave The Asinine Retarded Doorman at UD. .......Dave T.A.R.D at UD .....for short -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:02    Quote My sense is that stevestory was more concerned about how we were beginning to behave among ourselves (Louis vs. GoP*; Louis vs. demallien--sorry, Louis, I love ya babe, but you do keep winding up in these imbroglios), than he was about how we treated the incoming tards. We should thank Steve for raising the tone during the "naughty girl/sperm/give good mind" episode (although I laughed myself lightheaded). Louis, standing invitation: my blog, coffee, or tea. I just want to share something slightly OT: I posted at UD regarding someone having to make a painful decision. She was induced and the baby was born; little shimmier is doing better than expected; there may still be health difficulties ahead but there's a new little girl among us, so yay, and whew! -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:02    (throws a beer bottle at K.E.) Crikey.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:04    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 01 2007,21:20) I would only encourage Lenny to assume that the dolts he responds to here have never read any of his essays, or have any real knowledge of the subjects they choose to expound on for that matter, and perhaps to contribute some of what he has learned over the years when appropriate, instead of just boilerplate. i can understand that this takes effort that might be deemed wasted on the target.  I just would volunteer that it would always be appreciated by everyone else, including myself, for whatever it's worth. Well, if anyone were to actually go back through all the threads I've been in with creationuts, what generally happens is (1) creationist shows up, (2) I ask some simple questions, (3) creationist answers none of them, (4) I ask again, louder, (5) creationist answers none of them, (6) the gloves come off. If they'd just ANSWER MY GODDAMN QUESTIONS, there'd be no need for me to get testy with them.  (shrug) But then, as you can no doubt tell, I simply don't like them very much.  I treat them the same way I treat Nazis, Leninists and Klansmen.  And for much the same reasons. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:09    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 01 2007,21:20) moreover, unlike many, lenny has actually done a lot of legwork and research in the area of creationism, and has published several essays that I at least found quite useful. I find myself referring to his documentation of court cases and the history of creationism quite often. Book to appear shortly, within a few weeks.  Hardcover, 244 pages,  $31.99 . Seriously. And no, the word "fuck" doesn't appear anywhere in it. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:13    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 01 2007,21:45) I remind everyone, the Bathroom Wall is pretty much free of moderation, and remains available for those most splenetic posts. I hereby plant the red and black flag and declare the Bathroom to be "Liberated Territory". Long live the Revolution !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ariiiiiiise, ye victims of oppreeeeeeeeesion . . . . . -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:18    Quote (Steviepinhead @ Feb. 01 2007,21:15) On PT, I think Lenny is only "banned" from PZ-initiated posts. I don't know if I still am -- I left PT months ago, for reasons that had not very much to do with PZ or his Puppies. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:23    Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 01 2007,21:55) Man, if I saw Lenny in a mirror sneaking up behind me, I would scream! Especially if he had on his chainmail and had a big axe.   Don't worry ---- I assure you that it is quite impossible to sneak up on anybody while wearing chainmail.   -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:46    Quote Man, if I saw Lenny in a mirror sneaking up behind me, I would scream! Especially if he had on his chainmail and had a big axe.   what if he had a big mug of Viking Piss ™ in his hand instead of an axe? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:47    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 01 2007,21:20) I would only encourage Lenny to assume that the dolts he responds to here have never read any of his essays, or have any real knowledge of the subjects they choose to expound on for that matter, and perhaps to contribute some of what he has learned over the years when appropriate, instead of just boilerplate. Well, I guess part of the "problem" on my part is that I view this whole creation/ID fight to be, for all intents and purposes, over.  ID is dead.  Dead as a mackerel.  Dead, dead, dead.  Pee-uw. In the recent past, ID was a serious political threat, and it needed to be crushed. Now, it's dead.  It is fit only to be laughed at and made fun of.  And I'm only here to laugh at them and make fun of them.  In the future, if they become a serious threat again, I'm more than happy to stop laughing and to stomp them into the ground again.  In the meantime, they are nothing more than entertainment, as far as I am concerned.   As for all the new lurkers who are coming here now to learn how to fight the IDers, my message to them is simple ----- you're too late.  The fight is already over, and you missed it.   But hey, stick around for five or ten years, and maybe you'll get another chance at them (whatever they end up calling themselves the next time around).  They will never go away.  They are like cancer.  Eternal. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,22:49    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 01 2007,22:46) what if he had a big mug of Viking Piss ™ in his hand instead of an axe? Hey, EVERYONE knows that Viking Piss is, properly, drunk from a HORN. "Wassail !!!!!" -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,00:22    Quote I feel uncomfortable discussing Lenny's situation, as I'm sure many are, simply because most of us can hold up a mirror and see a lot of Lenny. Poor Lenny.... Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,00:34    I'm thinking about sending stevestory some vodka so I can take advantage and run amok. This is my plan. :D -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,02:20    deadman     Quote Gah, first social strictures make me quit smoking and drinking and mainlining PCP WHAT!!!  (Sputters)  When the h3ll did THIS happen?   I'm not standing for this facist crap.  They'll have to pry my midafternoon pickmeup from my cold, dead fingers!

Altabin Posts: 308 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,02:49    I worry that our casual use of the word "tard" might insult any actually retarded people that happen to read this forum. Like Sal Cordova, for instance.  :D --------------

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,02:51    TroutMac Thinks the exorcist was a documentary: Quote Whether a person is demon-possessed or not should not alter a verdict in a criminal trial one way or the other. I don't doubt that demon-possession happens, but I don't see it as being relevant to a criminal investigation. Either a person did the crime, or they did not. Simple as that. Nor do I see it at being relevant to ID. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH Prehaps the omen was a documentary also? AHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe....ent-953 -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,07:20    It's good to know that over at OW they hold the "darwinists" up to the same high standards that they apply to their "ID research" projects. Quote Intelligent design is falsifiable, all you need do to destroy ID's arguments is provide a sequence of intergrading forms leading unambiguously from one form to another - or reconstruct the transition hypothetically by providing a plausible genealogy including all the intermediate forms and a thoroughly convincing explanation of how each stage of the transition came about. Why, if this can be done, do Darwinists argue about anything else? Why, in the last few days have the Darwinists on this forum claimed ID is not science, that it does not provide peer-reviewed papers, that we are insane, etc and not just provided us with the intergrading forms leading unambiguously from scales and feathers (for example)? So C'mon and prove ID wrong. All you need is a videotape of feathers evolving from scales! Simple stuff? Can't do it? Why, you've just proved ID! http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe....ent-958 -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,07:54    I'm going to reopen the Civility thread, for as long as people can avoid attacking each other. I don't know how anyone got the idea that this is the place to discuss moderation, but let me recommend that the topic here get back to Uncommonly Dense.

phonon Posts: 396 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,09:07    Cheap, safe drug kills most cancers... http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2014#comment-88861   Quote Jon Jackson 01/31/2007 8:44 pm Didn’t Wells or some other ID bigshot suggest this a while back? As I recall he suggested it as ID inspired research saying that it would see all parts of the cell as a designed whole rather than chance mutations strung together by evolution. WTF? Yeah, of course ID predicted it. Why not? Is Jon Jackson an OE contributor? As in, tongue-in-cheek?   Quote idnet.com.au 02/01/2007 5:11 am DCAa causes liver cancer in rats and nerve and heart damage. I wonder whether it will lead to substancial increases in the rate of aging also. If one is dying of cancer, it will be a price worth paying. And that's why the headline at New Scientist is surprising. It doesn't sound so safe to me. And the effects haven't been observed in humans because there haven't been any clinical trials, but there have been clinical trials of DCA as a treatment for other ills. But from what I've heard, most alpha-halo-carboxylates (such as DCA) CAUSE cancer by attacking DNA.   Quote PaV 02/01/2007 10:52 am From memory, the scientist who first suggested DCA, did so in the 30’s. They said he didn’t know what he was talking about. Evolutionists say that the reason kids should be taught Darwinism is so that cures can be found in the lab. Well, how many cures HAVEN’T been found because of this nonsense theory? How many lives could have been spared if the scientific community had listened in the 1930’s? Yeah, Pav. The reason that doctors said it was crazy was because they believed in evolution. OR because it caused kidney and liver failure.   Quote I don't doubt that demon-possession happens... When I was about 11, I was taken to an "exorcism" by my mother. Great childhood I had.   Quote Science journalist John Horgan created a minor stir a decade ago with his book, The End of Science, arguing that the major science discoveries are all behind us. Now that was hardly a popular thesis. Yeah, it wasn't true at the end of the nineteenth century when people thought that and it's far from true now. Anyone who thinks this has no imagination. -------------- With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,09:27    Quote but let me recommend that the topic here get back to Uncommonly Dense. Yes, but first things first! John and I watched Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978 version) and I woke up paranoid! What if it really happened? I know I’m still me—are you guys still you? They’re coming for you! You’re next! So I’m checking UD for pod people! Bill seems to think that Dawkins doesn’t exist, and yet he publicly thanks God for Richard Dawkins. Okay, the pods didn’t get my crazy Bill (although if the pod people want to pay my gas bill they’re welcome to it. *Fart*). He's still him. Whew. Everyone else looks the same to me…no worries…wrinkled or smooth or green, they’re all just cute little peas in a… -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,09:34    http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2018 I'm thinking the Biologic lab staff shakes down like this: 4 Flash animators 3 Writers 4 voiceover artists 2 Still life artists etc. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,09:41    Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 02 2007,10:34) http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2018 I'm thinking the Biologic lab staff shakes down like this: 4 Flash animators 3 Writers 4 voiceover artists 2 Still life artists etc. 3-4 people to work the fax machines to publicize the revolution.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,09:48    scordova   Quote Courtesy a good friend, here is an article that touches on Chaitin’s work and IC in biology: Mathematics and the origin-of-life problem   Quote For the design skeptic DNA carries no information at all. DNA has no meaning for him. For him DNA is only a random pattern of ATCG symbols generated by chance. We can discount such an argument when it includes such an obvious strawman. DNA sequences are not random, but observed to be highly patterned. The opposite of meaningful is not randomness  — a typical creationist conflation that can't be salvaged by dropping famous names of mathematicians. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,10:27    You know, William Dembski just gave my upcoming trip to the Galapagos a really fun spin. I grew up on that In Search Of series narrated by Leonard Nimoy and those crap Bigfoot "documentaries," and just for laughs I’ll blog about my trip as "an expedition to find the elusive Richard Dawkins." (Let’s be honest, he’s a big reason why I’m going.) So at the end of May I’ll come back with a counterpost to Dembski’s silly post at UD (the link is funny though) about evidence for the existence of Richard Dawkins, and I’m not just talking signed books. What exactly is this shy creature Dawkins? What are his habits? How does he adapt to a new habitat (namely a ship)? I shall observe and take notes. Moreover, I’m beginning to wonder about the existence of this mysterious William Dembski. Aside from one e-mail I received I’ve never actually encountered him at all. Yes, there’s all this video on the web but that could have been faked like the moon landings. Does he always wear starched cotton shirts with a suit and tie, or does he slop around in sweaters occasionally? Does he snore? Does he smell like cinnamon? Hmmm, so many research projects, so little time. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,10:52    Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 02 2007,09:34) http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/2018 I'm thinking the Biologic lab staff shakes down like this: 4 Flash animators 3 Writers 4 voiceover artists 2 Still life artists etc. There's got to be a guy who keeps the ventilation running. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

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