The Ghost of Paley
Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005
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Hitting the Retsina again I see.....
| Quote | | Oh really? Stupid and obvious? You sound like AFDave more and more, ghost! how does "mixed racial descent" imply a distinct race? Like I said, maybe in your world. In reality, the different races in the US do not include Hispanics: Hispanics are a cultural/ethnical minority |
No #$%$, Sherlock. But the reason they are considered a "cultural/ethnic minority" is because of their interracial mixture. By the way, the Census considers "American Indian", "Alaska Native", "Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander" as distinct racial categories, so the Census, by its own logic, would be forced to consider Mestizos as mixed, nu? It doesn't, but that's probably because making fine racial distinctions isn't a priority of the USCB.
| Quote | (and that's also what "La Raza" -which, btw, if you believe Wikipedia, comes from "La Raza Cosmica" - would say to you).And more than 90% of them are categorized as white. Not being 'purebloods' (although that's far less than the "majority") might mean something to you, but not to Federal agencies. They don't care about what you (or I) think, Ghost: They just try to create some statistics that are as objective (and useful) as possible.
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Yes. And they're refining their methodology all the time. Let's suppose, however, that in tabulating poverty in America, the Feds classified blue-collar/unemployed Mulattoes as "white" and white-collar Mulattoes as "mixed race/other", and tried to justify this by saying, "Uhhhh, well, we found it easier to make these racial breakdowns as we went up the social ladder, and hey, we do this across all racial categories, so we're being consistent!" How long do you think civil rights groups would buy this explanation?
Well, that's what the Feds are doing here. They classify Mestizos as "white" when they commit crime, and then give them a special category when they're victimised. I've got an easier solution: how about giving them their own category as victims and criminals? That would be more symmetric, it would give the American public a better idea of what's going on, and it would make more sense in a report that's about race. They could label the categories as, I don't know, "Hispanic", and "non-Hispanic white". Would this bold new government classification scheme work, Faid? Here's why they won't, though: because then Americans would discover that many "white" hatecrimes ain't as "white" as they're cracked up to be.
As for this "La Raza Cosmica" book, let's look at a couple of passages:
| Quote | Es tésis central del presente libro que las distintas razas del mundo tienden a mezclarse cada vez más, hasta formar un nuevo tipo humano, compuesto con la selección de cada uno de los pueblos existentes. Se publicó por primera vez tal presagio en la época en que prevalecía, en el mundo científico, la doctrina darwinista de la selección natural que salva a los aptos, condena a los débiles; doctrina que llevada al terreno social por Gobineau, dio origen a la teoría del ario puro, defendida por los ingleses, llevada a imposición aberrante por el nazismo.
[....]
Las circumstancias actuales favorecen, en consequencia, el desarrollo de las relaciones sexuales interraciales, lo que presta apoyo inesperado a la tesis que, a falta de nombre mejor, titulé: de la Raza Cósmica futura.
[....]
En todo caso, la conclusión más optimista que se puede derivar de los hechos observados es que aun los mestizajes más contradictorios pueden resolverse benéficamente siempre que el factor espiritual contribuya a levantarlos. En efecto, la decadencia de los pueblos asiáticos es atributible a su aislamiento, pero también, y sin duda, en primer término, al hecho de que no han sido cristianizados. Una religión como la cristiana hizo avanzar a los indios americanos, en pocas centurias, desde el canibalismo hasta la relativa civilización. |
Would any Spanish-speaking Panda's Bummer care to translate for the audience?
| Quote | And who is? Me? You want Hispanics to be treated as a race instead of a national minority, Ghost.
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No, but a little consistency wouldn't hurt: if the government creates the "Hispanic/NonHispanic White" category, then it should use it consistently, especially where dropping the distinction would cause confusion. I honestly don't give a toss how the guv classifies people, but I don't like equivocation, especially when the result (if not the intention  ) leads to demonising races. Since I've been personally targeted for racial violence myself (it didn't lead anywhere when the perps saw that this  was actually a 
), you might see why I'm a little sensitive on this issue.
| Quote | ...Or, maybe, that they are not a race at all, but a cultural and social minority? Precicely because there are more races than one among them? As for your argument, let me help you turn it the right way up: If the goverment creates a distinction between Hispanics and Non-Hispanic Whites, what does that tell you about Hispanics and their dominant race? Otherwise, why not simply refer to them as Whites and Hispanics, if they are so racially diferrent?
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Great. So let's see some consistency.
| Quote | | Come on, admit it... You just figured it out, as you typed the response, now didn't you? |
You're probably correct that I initially misunderstood your point, but don't interpret my misunderstanding of your bong and ouzo-fueled posts as a lack of understanding of the FBI categories themselves. In other words, I overestimated you, but won't do it again. 
| Quote | | "Appreciable numbers"? Watch your back with those goalposts, Ghost. Why should I show something I have not claimed? In case you forgot, our dispute was this: You claimed that the FBI (as part of that great 'Conspiracy' made a dishonest distinction by "lumping up" Hispanics with whites as offenders, and treating them separately as victims. I explained that your sources were BSing you, and that it was a valid distinction because only the race of the offenders was evaluated- while Hispanics get their category as a victim because of ethnic bias crimes against them. And race had nothing to do with that, since as offenders they'd be for the most part (90%, I guess) with whites. I said nothing about percentages: I said that's how it should be. |
For the life of me, I can't see how this is meaningful. Thugs who want to target white people do so. In selecting their victims, it's hard to see why they would choose Hispanics, who
1) Are not white
2) Are not viewed as white; and
3) Are not going to be mistaken for white.
Now, we can argue all day about whether Hispanics should be classified as "white", "mixed", or "other", and then debate how consistently the classifications should be applied across crime categories, but none of this changes the real point, which is that almost all white-targeted victims of hate crimes are, in fact, unambiguously white. In any case, I really do understand your argument -- I just find it inane.
| Quote | And, like I said, when you guys take over you can 'make' Hispanics a distinct race- or, even better, you can start collecting the nationality of all offenders as well (and I can only imagine the effect that would have on the "liberal media" )
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Uhhh Faid, are you implying something about the ethnic make-up of our media? This type of allegation doesn't help your liberal cred any, Faid. I'm just sayin'........
| Quote | ... But you cannot claim that the FBI forged or cooked any data up to serve its "agenda", because it is simply not true.
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Sure I can, because it is.
| Quote | Whoa steady there, Siegfried... Don't get all excited. If I knew that the mental image I provided for you (of a beautiful young lady who has a dark complexion and is also Caucasian) would be so revolting to your poor Aryan mind, I'd have held my tongue. I readily apologise, and promise I'll keep the unspeakable horrors of reality to myself from now on.
(BTW, what race do you think the Turks are, Ghost? ) |
Now, Faid, I told you to tell it to your shrink. You must have a rich fantasy life:
Faid: Sing, O muse, of the lust of Faid, that brought countless ills upon the archaens!
Muse: Und Caicosinseln keine shtuppen!
Faid:Ummmmmm.....Turkish women....
awowulwoulglowog!
Muse:
Nein! Nein!
rowlrowlgowruh....
| Quote | No, what you wanted was to make "newcomers" think that you had triumphed on some old debate, a debate you had in fact backed away from, willingly. that doesn't prove you wrong, but it doesn't make you right either. But the "newcomers" wouldn't know that.... Typical of Paley.
Well, I don't think I need any more "evidence" now that you finally figured the whole thing out, ghost my friend.... But tell you what: You come back when you grow a pair and admit that what you did was crappy. And of course, apologize for accusing me of lying. |
But I did triumph! I apologise for confusing opinion with fact, however. Next time I'll include a link.
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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.
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- would say to you).And more than 90% of them are categorized as white. Not being 'purebloods' (although that's far less than the "majority") might mean something to you, but not to Federal agencies. They don't care about what you (or I) think, Ghost: They just try to create some statistics that are as objective (and useful) as possible.
).