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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > The "I Believe In God" Thread

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IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,14:56    Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 04 2011,12:50) Quote (khan @ Jan. 04 2011,12:45) BTW, IBIG, could you pray to your gods concerning healing peripheral neuropathy? I'm sure your prayers would do the trick and I promise to praise your gods of choice if I am healed. But see, that's why God WON'T do it. He wants you to believe, not know.  Knowing that he exists removes the belief that he feeds on. See, apparently IBIG doesn't know theology as well as he thinks he does and he doesn't believe in God.  According to IBIG, he KNOWS God exists.  That's not belief buddy. You don't have a relationship with God.  He doesn't want you because you KNOW he exists instead of believing he exists. That's the point of my question to you.  If you pray for something and it happens then you LOSE YOUR FAITH in God, by definition. God shouldn't answer any prayer, because that would be a tactic admission that He exists.  So why bother praying? BTW: You don't pray to have a personal relationship with God.  You pray to get a benefit or as a public display of personal faith and piety. Their is a difference from believing that God exists, and having Faith and full Trust in Him. God expects us to have Faith and full Trust in Him. Read the scripture again. Hebrews 11:6 (New International Version, ©2010) 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.[B] God does not feed off of belief, but it is impossible to please God if we don't believe Him. You seem to think that just believing that God exists is enough to please God, but that isn't the case. Read the last part of the verse I posted "and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." It's important that we have Faith in God, that He will provide, heal, deliver, and take care of us. That is what is meant, and not just to only believe that He exists, which is what you imply. I could state that "I believe that coach Nick Saban exists," but that is much different then if I were to state, that "I believe that Nick Saban is a fabulous college football coach, and I have faith that He can coach His team to another national championship again in the future." There is a big difference between the two statements.

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,15:09    WTF? I can't believe in your penis god until I believe in it? All I'm asking for is some evidence beyond your having experienced its penis. Is that too much to ask? -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,15:33    Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,14:56) Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 04 2011,12:50)   Quote (khan @ Jan. 04 2011,12:45) BTW, IBIG, could you pray to your gods concerning healing peripheral neuropathy? I'm sure your prayers would do the trick and I promise to praise your gods of choice if I am healed. But see, that's why God WON'T do it. He wants you to believe, not know.  Knowing that he exists removes the belief that he feeds on. See, apparently IBIG doesn't know theology as well as he thinks he does and he doesn't believe in God.  According to IBIG, he KNOWS God exists.  That's not belief buddy. You don't have a relationship with God.  He doesn't want you because you KNOW he exists instead of believing he exists. That's the point of my question to you.  If you pray for something and it happens then you LOSE YOUR FAITH in God, by definition. God shouldn't answer any prayer, because that would be a tactic admission that He exists.  So why bother praying? BTW: You don't pray to have a personal relationship with God.  You pray to get a benefit or as a public display of personal faith and piety. Their is a difference from believing that God exists, and having Faith and full Trust in Him. God expects us to have Faith and full Trust in Him. Read the scripture again. Hebrews 11:6 (New International Version, ©2010) 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.[B] God does not feed off of belief, but it is impossible to please God if we don't believe Him. You seem to think that just believing that God exists is enough to please God, but that isn't the case. Read the last part of the verse I posted "and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." It's important that we have Faith in God, that He will provide, heal, deliver, and take care of us. That is what is meant, and not just to only believe that He exists, which is what you imply. I could state that "I believe that coach Nick Saban exists," but that is much different then if I were to state, that "I believe that Nick Saban is a fabulous college football coach, and I have faith that He can coach His team to another national championship again in the future." There is a big difference between the two statements. But you don't believe God exists.  You "know" he does. Since you are using Bible verses as evidence, then we return the two previous questions: 1) Why do you not pray to heal all those with a particular affliction (you pick)?  If the Bible is true and in multiple places it states that whatever is done in God's name with sufficient belief (including cursing something) will be done. 2) If those Bible verses are not correct, then which verses are correct and how do you know?  In fact, how do you even know which books of the Bible are supposed to be included as canon?  Why do different churches have different Bibles? Sorry, but your faith makes no sense. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,16:15    Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 04 2011,15:33) Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,14:56) Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 04 2011,12:50)   Quote (khan @ Jan. 04 2011,12:45) BTW, IBIG, could you pray to your gods concerning healing peripheral neuropathy? I'm sure your prayers would do the trick and I promise to praise your gods of choice if I am healed. But see, that's why God WON'T do it. He wants you to believe, not know.  Knowing that he exists removes the belief that he feeds on. See, apparently IBIG doesn't know theology as well as he thinks he does and he doesn't believe in God.  According to IBIG, he KNOWS God exists.  That's not belief buddy. You don't have a relationship with God.  He doesn't want you because you KNOW he exists instead of believing he exists. That's the point of my question to you.  If you pray for something and it happens then you LOSE YOUR FAITH in God, by definition. God shouldn't answer any prayer, because that would be a tactic admission that He exists.  So why bother praying? BTW: You don't pray to have a personal relationship with God.  You pray to get a benefit or as a public display of personal faith and piety. Their is a difference from believing that God exists, and having Faith and full Trust in Him. God expects us to have Faith and full Trust in Him. Read the scripture again. Hebrews 11:6 (New International Version, ©2010) 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.[B] God does not feed off of belief, but it is impossible to please God if we don't believe Him. You seem to think that just believing that God exists is enough to please God, but that isn't the case. Read the last part of the verse I posted "and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." It's important that we have Faith in God, that He will provide, heal, deliver, and take care of us. That is what is meant, and not just to only believe that He exists, which is what you imply. I could state that "I believe that coach Nick Saban exists," but that is much different then if I were to state, that "I believe that Nick Saban is a fabulous college football coach, and I have faith that He can coach His team to another national championship again in the future." There is a big difference between the two statements. But you don't believe God exists.  You "know" he does. Since you are using Bible verses as evidence, then we return the two previous questions: 1) Why do you not pray to heal all those with a particular affliction (you pick)?  If the Bible is true and in multiple places it states that whatever is done in God's name with sufficient belief (including cursing something) will be done. 2) If those Bible verses are not correct, then which verses are correct and how do you know?  In fact, how do you even know which books of the Bible are supposed to be included as canon?  Why do different churches have different Bibles? Sorry, but your faith makes no sense. I do know that God exists, but you are confusing knowing God exists, with believing in God, trusting that He will take care of me, trusting that He will give me eternal life, trusting that He will heal me if I need it, trusting that He will provide for me. I don't know if you have a spouse or not, but what if you didn't trust anything about your spouse? What would your relationship be like? Would your spouse be pleased? Jesus' disciples knew He existed, but did they believe He was truly the son of God? Peter did, and Jesus told him upon this rock I will build my church. You seem to think that God should do things to get you to know that He exists before you believe, which would go against His very will. He wants you to come to Him by faith, and then He will reveal Himself to you. If you seek Him you will find Him, but if you don't seek Him will not find Him. As far as praying for people, you seem to think that God should answer prayers for the strict purpose of proving His existence. Well He doesn't work that way. When we pray He knows the desires of our heart, and the reason for the prayer, He also uses trials and tribulations to work and build our patience. God is not the one on trial, we are! We are the ones who have fallen short of the glory of God, and must be born again, and live a life of loving God with all our heart, mind, body and soul, and then to love our neighbor as ourselves. I'm sorry that you can't see how simple it is to be a child of God, how wonderful it is, and how blessed it is.

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,16:42    Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,17:15) As far as praying for people, you seem to think that God should answer prayers for the strict purpose of proving His existence. Well He doesn't work that way. When we pray He knows the desires of our heart, and the reason for the prayer, He also uses trials and tribulations to work and build our patience. What a ridiculous, bullshit cop-out!  Somebody sincerely praying for somebody else to heal or survive an ordeal is pretty fucking straight forward as far as the "desires of our heart and the reason for the prayer" go, as far as I and any sane, non-psychopath should be able to tell.  So, when your imaginary friend doesn't answer those prayers, you then excuse the sadistic lack of action on its part as "trials and tribulations to work and build our patience".  Your god is one sick bastard. This comes down to you and those like you being stupid enough to keep plodding on.  For the terminally deluded, it's "heads god wins, tails god wins".  (Did I just Godwin this thread?)  That's right, little jackass, keep pulling that cart because somebody told you that there's really a carrot on the end of the stick.  You just can't see it, smell it or taste it, but believe me, it's really there 'cause somebody wrote about it in an old book. -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

prong_hunter Posts: 45 Joined: May 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,18:04    I.B.I.G. is back!  Thanks for coming to the forum named in your honor. I've been spending way too much time reading the Bathroom Wall at Panda's Thumb. It's been tedious, but enlightening. IBIB was the central focus of the BW in 2010.  After thousands of posts, what was IBIG's point? I think he finally posted it recently on Panda's Thumb, but here it is for those of you who haven't read it. IBelieveInGod said: "I believe the sole purpose of the scientific claim of Abiogenesis is to imply that there is no God. If one were not to believe in God, and wanted to promote such a view, then creating an unprovable, and unfalsifiable hypothesis that life came to be by natural causes without a Creator would be the way to go about it. Abiogenesis would be a great tool for evangelizing young minds away from believing in God, and turning them into Atheists. Implying God doesn’t exist with an unprovable, and unfalsifiable hypothesis should be prohibited from being taught in public school." That's what he was trying to convince everyone of, for an entire year. Not interest in hearing counter arguments, he fights science because he feels it exists soley to deny his God. And his fight is holy and his cause is just. Evidently there's a US patent for abiogenesis, the object of his wrath. What does that do to your argument IBIG? The government handed out a patent for abiogenesis. It must be real. I guess you were wrong.

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,18:51    And that, prong_hunter, is why I ended up prefacing so many responses to our learned associate with three rather pointed words. The man is off the table and into somebody's pint of lager.  He is dense enough to sit down at a seven card stud game and ask to draw three cards, then wonder whose bid it is.  He's not even wrong. But rather than accept the possibility that ikkle Biggy might not be up to snuff, he preaches at length and doesn't listen, then wonders why he gets smacked down repeatedly.  He won't even read the material so that he can at least understand what he's attacking (as has been demonstrated several times). Stupidity this strong should hurt. I'll give him points for finally stepping up and coming over here, minus a few more for having taken so long to do the right thing and minus several more for showing no sign of actual cogitation in the meantime. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,18:58    Shorter version:   Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,14:15) A bunch of stuff happened. I believe in God. Therefore GODDIDIT. Well. Can't argue with that sort of reasoning now, can you. Sheesh. (headshake) -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

prong_hunter Posts: 45 Joined: May 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,20:01    Quote (MadPanda @ FCD,Jan. 04 2011,18:51) "And that, prong_hunter, is why I ended up prefacing so many responses to our learned associate with three rather pointed words." "Go fuck yourself, you lying sack of shit!" No wait, that's someone else (and it's 8 words). Just what were your three words, I forgot?

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,21:43    My three words, which have the twin virtues of brevity and simplicity, are as follows: "Fuck, you're stupid." I occasionally managed a few more creative comments, but against the brick wall of Biggy's impious stubbornness in the face of reality, I confess my more vulgar tendencies came out with some gusto. Amazingly enough, it wasn't until I'd called him 'delusional' a few times before he seemed to really respond to anything I said (by, ha ha, threatening me with legal action).  That was worth the chuckle. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2011,21:45    Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 04 2011,18:58) Shorter version:     Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,14:15) A bunch of stuff happened. I believe in God. Therefore GODDIDIT. Well. Can't argue with that sort of reasoning now, can you. Sheesh. (headshake) The truly embarrassing thing is, that's Biggy's "A-game".  That's as good as he can get, if his past performance is anything by which to measure his capacity. He has yet to put away childish things, it seems. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

Dale_Husband Posts: 118 Joined: April 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,01:28    Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,16:15)   I do know that God exists... No, you don't, so you just lied to everyone here. NO ONE knows that God exists. -------------- If you need a man-made book to beleive in a God who is said to have created the universe, of what value is your faith? You might as well worship an idol.

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,08:45    Quote (Dale_Husband @ Jan. 05 2011,01:28)   Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,16:15)   I do know that God exists... No, you don't, so you just lied to everyone here. NO ONE knows that God exists. I think I know but my God is so far from anything dreamed up by IBIG and the rest of them so I am afraid it doesn't count. I thought last night after going to bed - the time of day (or night) when my thinking is at is best, that I'd tell you all (or as much as I can) about that but as often is the case, I had second thoughts when I woke up this morning. But given my age, I feel it is about time I told what little I know. But it is my modus operandi to think things over more than once and I don't always do what I later realize I should have done. Besides, there's always the argument: What's the use? -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,08:51    hmmm... I didn't hear about IBIG's final admission of why he's here. So, a scientific explantion of molecules (using known chemical processes) self assembling into structures that are able to reproduce (and therefore evolve) is against God. But, a magic sky fairy breathing on mud and out pops a human being is OK.  Got it, thanks. BTW: If the scientific explanation of chemistry is wrong, IBIG, do you pray every morning that your car will run and that all the chemistry that keeps you alive works correctly and that all the food you eat will miraculously turn into fuel and nutrients for your body? If you don't, then you are a hypocrite.  But we all knew that already. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,10:09    Quote (Quack @ Jan. 05 2011,14:45) Quote (Dale_Husband @ Jan. 05 2011,01:28)   Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,16:15)   I do know that God exists... No, you don't, so you just lied to everyone here. NO ONE knows that God exists. I think I know but my God is so far from anything dreamed up by IBIG and the rest of them so I am afraid it doesn't count. I thought last night after going to bed - the time of day (or night) when my thinking is at is best, that I'd tell you all (or as much as I can) about that but as often is the case, I had second thoughts when I woke up this morning. But given my age, I feel it is about time I told what little I know. But it is my modus operandi to think things over more than once and I don't always do what I later realize I should have done. Besides, there's always the argument: What's the use? Well Quack, since you're probably descending from vikings and your god is most probably Thor, let's remind IBIG of this little factlet: His lord was nailed to a cross, your god has a hammer. Let's make connections here! ps: with regard to Louis taking a short break from posting here (or at least lowering his post rate), I find my reading pleasure renewed everyday by MadPanda's posts. Thanks, I need this... -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,11:00    Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 05 2011,09:51) hmmm... I didn't hear about IBIG's final admission of why he's here. So, a scientific explantion of molecules (using known chemical processes) self assembling into structures that are able to reproduce (and therefore evolve) is against God. But, a magic sky fairy breathing on mud and out pops a human being is OK.  Got it, thanks. BTW: If the scientific explanation of chemistry is wrong, IBIG, do you pray every morning that your car will run and that all the chemistry that keeps you alive works correctly and that all the food you eat will miraculously turn into fuel and nutrients for your body? If you don't, then you are a hypocrite.  But we all knew that already. I owned a British car in the '70s and this was not far from the truth. -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

prong_hunter Posts: 45 Joined: May 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,11:12    Quote (Dale_Husband @ Jan. 05 2011,01:28)     Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 04 2011,16:15)   I do know that God exists... No, you don't, so you just lied to everyone here. NO ONE knows that God exists. Well, I don't mean to be contrary, but IBIG has responded to such posts before. (I've got to stop reading the BW at PT.) In this forum IBIG said, "I've already done that on Panda's Thumb bathroom wall. You wouldn't believe it anyway, so it would be a wasted of my time to rehash all of that again. " And to be fair, he has responded in this forum that he  witnessed a miraculous healing of his grandmother. You might not believe it was a real miracle. And I might not believe it. But to IBIG it was genuine. I have to admit, if I had seen a seemingly genuine 'miraculous' cure, before my own eyes, I might start to wonder about 'things that cannot be seen.' Furthermore, as I have learned from reading, IBIG claims the Holy Spirit within him. If I felt such a presence (and I do not), then maybe I would be as stubborn as IBIG. Finally, IBIG has been convince that old Bible prophesies have truly been fulfilled. This is how IBIG, for himself, 'knows' there is a God. For those of us without such experiences, we are justified in saying, "there's no way you can 'know' that God exists." IBIG's proofs will not hold-up in a scientific court of law. His personal experiences don't convince anyone else. Therefore he would like to change the definition of science to include the supernatural. In a year's worth of arguing, no one at PT agreed with him. He convinced no one, declared victory, and left. So I'm trying to be fair to IBIG. I really want to know how that patent on abiogenesis affects his argument against abiogenesis. What say ye, IBIG?

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,11:19    Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Jan. 05 2011,16:09) [SNIP] ps: with regard to Louis taking a short break from posting here (or at least lowering his post rate), I find my reading pleasure renewed everyday by MadPanda's posts. Thanks, I need this... I am still here. And I am watching you all. But not in, you know, a pervy way. Well, not much of a pervy way. Anyway, as someone who has occasionally done a bit of chemistry I have thought about discussing abiogenesis with our new chum but then tragedy struck. I watched the Paul Nelson video Larry Moran has up on Sandwalk and then read the comments. Paul Nelson's remarks in the comments, to the effect that because in the lab we have to purify compounds from crude reaction mixtures to characterise them somehow indicates a flaw with the original Miller-Urey experiments (plus a load of quote mined waffle) therefore ID is true, are so bad I have decided not to. This "argument" from Nelson is reducible to this: Chromatography, therefore Jesus. That simple wanking fucktardery annoyed and depressed me so much I had to go and have a lie down. If anyone needs me I'll be in a darkened room with a cold, damp flannel over my head applying beer at regular intervals. Louis -------------- Bye.

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,11:44    Louis,  one thing to remember is that, to an IDist, ANYTHING that happens in a lab or scientific experiment (but not including pure observation i.e. no manipulation) is, by their definition, designed and therefore proff of ID. Of course, this just proves that they are idiots.  I've posted dozens of papers and asked IDists to specifically point out where the researchers 'designed' the results... and none of them have ever answered. Prong, I would further submit that any purely internal 'evidence' like that be subjected to an extensive battery of tests designed to make sure that one wasn't the victim of self-induced visualizations produced by ritual (or other means) that causes one to be in a suggestive state. IOW (damn you Joe) making sure that it is an external influence not your own brain playing tricks on you OR you playing tricks on your own brain. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,11:58    IBIG, let's explore our argument a little further.  I see two choices here, feel free to add another if you think of one. We will assume that God is perfectly omniscient. A) God either acts on this perfect fore-knowledge -or- B) God does not act on this perfect fore-knowledge If A) is correct, then there is no free-will and your God has condemned those of us who don't believe in him to eternal death and torture (thereby making him evil). The logic behind this is that an omnipotent God can do anything and can see the results of all of His actions in the myriad branching of realities.  So anything that He does would be removing the free-choice of other sentients.  If you think we have free-will, then God cannot act on his prescient knowledge. If B) is correct, then again, why do you pray to God for things?  He cannot act on your prayers, because doing so would remove ones free-will.* So far, we have established that God cannot answer impossible prayers or prayers that could otherwise be accomplished through other means.  We have also established that God cannot answer prayers without removing free-will.  And yet, God is supposed to be all-powerful, yet he can't do any of these things... indeed, He can't even show himself. Further, as has already been established, IBIG does not believe the Bible is true.  Why are you a Christian IBIG?  You don't even believe the Bible?   I really don't get the labrythine shallows of your mind... though I think that's a good thing. * i.e. You COULD pray for me to become a Christian, since I will not, either God must not answer your prayer, must remove my free-will, or must tell you 'no' and send me to eternal torture.  Remember, my 'hard heart' has no bearing on the situation.  God could easily make me a Christian of whatever stripe he desires, especially if you believe enough that God will be forced to answer your prayer. In any light, prayer is looking more and more like a totally ridiculous waste of time. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,11:58    New International Version, ©2010 New International Updated Re-translated Misogynist Holy War etc etc etc ... -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,13:04    Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Jan. 05 2011,10:09) ps: with regard to Louis taking a short break from posting here (or at least lowering his post rate), I find my reading pleasure renewed everyday by MadPanda's posts. Thanks, I need this... Merci beaucoup, Monsieur! I do aim to please, and occasionally succeed.  I regret that most of what I can add is the equivalent of spitballs hurled from the peanut gallery, and take a certain blushing pleasure at hearing that my efforts at least amuse.   The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,16:25    Quote Well Quack, since you're probably descending from vikings and your god is most probably Thor, let's remind IBIG of this little factlet: His lord was nailed to a cross, your god has a hammer. Let's make connections here! That's a good one! A cross in the sky and a hammer and nail in the sky, that figures! -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,16:53    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 05 2011,11:19) Chromatography, therefore Jesus. Brilliant! But it might be a bit hard to discuss chromatography in the standard-issue church bulletin... -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,17:38    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Jan. 05 2011,22:53) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 05 2011,11:19) Chromatography, therefore Jesus. Brilliant! But it might be a bit hard to discuss chromatography in the standard-issue church bulletin... Perhaps: "Magic sand make black stuff sparkly"? Louis -------------- Bye.

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,17:55    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Jan. 05 2011,16:53) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 05 2011,11:19) Chromatography, therefore Jesus. Brilliant! But it might be a bit hard to discuss chromatography in the standard-issue church bulletin... Back in my former life as a grad student I had to TA a lab that involved gas chromatography.  The machine was in a closet with delusions of grandeur.  There were something like 20 students in there with me.  I have a nearly pathological fear of needles. Every time I turned around there was a freshman with a syringe pointed at me filled with the kind of organic soup that would give you super powers if you lived in a comic book.  I'm sure I included "Jesus!" amongst the responses I had each time this happened.  Therefore, Godditit. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,18:37    Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 05 2011,11:58) IBIG, let's explore our argument a little further.  I see two choices here, feel free to add another if you think of one. We will assume that God is perfectly omniscient. A) God either acts on this perfect fore-knowledge -or- B) God does not act on this perfect fore-knowledge If A) is correct, then there is no free-will and your God has condemned those of us who don't believe in him to eternal death and torture (thereby making him evil). The logic behind this is that an omnipotent God can do anything and can see the results of all of His actions in the myriad branching of realities.  So anything that He does would be removing the free-choice of other sentients.  If you think we have free-will, then God cannot act on his prescient knowledge. If B) is correct, then again, why do you pray to God for things?  He cannot act on your prayers, because doing so would remove ones free-will.* So far, we have established that God cannot answer impossible prayers or prayers that could otherwise be accomplished through other means.  We have also established that God cannot answer prayers without removing free-will.  And yet, God is supposed to be all-powerful, yet he can't do any of these things... indeed, He can't even show himself. Further, as has already been established, IBIG does not believe the Bible is true.  Why are you a Christian IBIG?  You don't even believe the Bible?   I really don't get the labrythine shallows of your mind... though I think that's a good thing. * i.e. You COULD pray for me to become a Christian, since I will not, either God must not answer your prayer, must remove my free-will, or must tell you 'no' and send me to eternal torture.  Remember, my 'hard heart' has no bearing on the situation.  God could easily make me a Christian of whatever stripe he desires, especially if you believe enough that God will be forced to answer your prayer. In any light, prayer is looking more and more like a totally ridiculous waste of time. You are a silly ignorant fool! I can say that because the Bible clearly says, "a fool says in his heart that there is no God." You say that God either acts on perfect fore-knowledge or God does not act on perfect fore-knowledge. What are you referring to? What perfect fore-knowledge are you referring to? Every one of use have a free will, are you saying that it isn't your free will to be an atheist? You are an atheist by choice, and if you wanted you could be a follower of Christ right?  So, are you saying that God makes you be an atheist? Don't you see how silly your argument is? God can intervene in your life, but He chooses not to so that you do have your free will to be a believer or not, and you chose to not be a believer by your own free will. So, your argument is stupid. God can and has answered prayers for supposedly impossible situations, I told of the my friend Patty whom God healed of inoperable terminal lung cancer, she was sent home to die and given six months to live, and that was in 1979. Where did I say that I don't believe the Bible is true? I can pray for you to become a child of God, and I am praying that right now, but God will not make you become a Christian against your own free will. What you don't know though, is that He can, and will use situations, tragedies, etc... to get your attention, but ultimately you are the one who would have make the decision on your own. You may have to end up in the pig pin like the prodigal son, before you come to a realization that you want something more in life, and that you are tired of living off of the leftover slop of the pigs. You know nothing about how God works. You must really live in a awful state of depression, bitterness, anger, hate! I feel sorry for you, you have no Joy, you have no Peace, and you definitely have no Righteous.

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,18:43    IBIG, you are one stupid, arrogant, deluded fucktard.  SRSLY. (Hey, there's really not much point in going any deeper or even attempting a more elegant analysis, is there?) -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,18:55    Omniscience (pronounced /?m?n?si?ns/)[1] (or omniscient point-of-view in writing) is the capacity to know everything infinitely, or at least everything that can be known about a character including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe, etc. In monotheism, this ability is attributed to God. (wikipedia) That's the perfect fore-knowlege that I apply to God. And yes, if God does exist, then I 100% blame him for me being atheist.  His followers are poor examples of Christian piety (which actually doesn't exist BTW, goes with that 'evangelical' thing).  He made His book WRONG and gave it to fallible, petty, power-mad men to control. If we don't have free-will, then God decided my fate LONG before I came along, which isn't exactly fair. Look, if God has omniscience and omnipotence, then either everyone or everything else does or does not have free will. If we have free will, then God cannot be omniscient AND benevolent at the same time... especially considering his own followers.  If we have free-will, then you should be perfectly willing to pray for God to heal the (otherwise incurable) disease of your choice.  You don't because you KNOW that God will not answer such a prayer. You can couch it in whatever terms you want, but you good and well know that He will not answer such a prayer. You're too chicken to realize this.  You don't believe the Bible is true, because you either ignore what it says, or say that part is metaphorical.  You don't believe Matthew 17:20 where  Jesus says: Quote      For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. Either no one is a good enough believer to truly use God's power or God doesn't exist. He may exist, of course, and not give a rat's left testicle about this universe. In any case I have presented, and you haven't presented any counter cases yet, prayer is effectively useless.  Either you can do it on your own (or with merely human help) or you won't get what you pray for. If God exists, then He doesn't give a shit about you either. IBIG, you couldn't be more wrong.  I am the happiest I have ever been in my life.  I am more than happy, too, to show the world how truly sick, evil, twisted, power-hungry, and moronic your religion is.  I enjoy it. I don't hate God.  You can't hate something that doesn't exist.  I hate that it has turned many, many people (including you) into slabbering morons.  You have no concept of what it like to be free of the fears created by your religion. I can do any positive thing you can do and I can do it better, because I'm not doing it out of fear (i.e. extortion), I'm doing it because I want to.  There is nothing that you can do to help this world that I can't do.   But there are many, many thing you can do to destroy the world that I can't.  You can destroy science by perverting it and lying about it.  You can destroy families by converting one and having them shun the others.  You can destroy countries and peoples, even genocide, by converting governments into Theocratic monstrosities.  You can create slaves, even today, of young people, especially women telling them what they can and can't do, even with there own bodies and lives. I can't do any of that.  All I can tell people is the truth.  And that simple truth is, if God is even real, He doesn't give a shit about this planet. Heck, I'll stay an atheist, just to show you that you're God can't convert me.  Let's see who wins me or your God. BTW: Do you believe Matthew 17:20 or not? -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

prong_hunter Posts: 45 Joined: May 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,18:57    So Ogre, are you saying that if God knows everything about everything, then he know whether you will accept him or reject him? And if you reject him, and he knows it, then you really didn't have a choice at all? It was predestined before the beginning of time that you would spend eternity in Hell? So if God knows everything (omniscient is the word, I think), then there is no such thing as 'free will'. And God is directly responsible for condeming so many souls to Hell. That doesn't seem fair. What do you say, IBIG?

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