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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,06:48   

Quote (sparc @ Jan. 20 2016,01:51)
Rather than citing the publically original title O'News refers to the Royal Society Meeting on "New trends in evolutionary biology: biological, philosophical and social science perspectives" as "Rethink evolution" here, here and here. Note Denyse:
Just because you are hoping for it and the notorious Suzan Mazur is trying to sell herself as the prophet who has written the bible on the Evolution Paradigm Shift again doesn't mean that anything like that will happen.


Heads up:
www.kurzweilai.net/why-evolution-may-be-intelligent-based-on-deep-learning

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,07:30   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 19 2016,20:50)
You have never proposed anything viable,


From (article) above:

Quote
Like neural networks, evolution appears to "learn" from previous experience, which may explain how natural selection can produce such apparently intelligent designs


Another line of evidence from "Deep Learning" was added to what I have, which came from another area of cognitive science.

You better take cover too.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,07:47   

There's a reason the word 'learn' is in scare quotes in the remark you quoted.

But of course that's part of the benefit you get from never defining your terms and never taking the next step past your 'premise'.
You quite literally depend on the ambiguity and equivocation inherent in 'intelligence'.  This renders your efforts ad hoc, unscientific and ultimately useless as anything other than (very bad) fan fic.

The (obvious and essential) next step past your pseudo-premise is the question 'how do we tell which things are which?'  Which are the features of the universe that are best explained by intelligent action and how do we know?
You obstinately refuse to address that problem.  That renders your work sterile, nay, puerile.

No definitions, no 'materials and methods', thus no science.
And you wallow in it.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,07:52   

Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,07:47)
There's a reason the word 'learn' is in scare quotes in the remark you quoted.

But of course that's part of the benefit you get from never defining your terms and never taking the next step past your 'premise'.
You quite literally depend on the ambiguity and equivocation inherent in 'intelligence'.  This renders your efforts ad hoc, unscientific and ultimately useless as anything other than (very bad) fan fic.

The (obvious and essential) next step past your pseudo-premise is the question 'how do we tell which things are which?'  Which are the features of the universe that are best explained by intelligent action and how do we know?
You obstinately refuse to address that problem.  That renders your work sterile, nay, puerile.

No definitions, no 'materials and methods', thus no science.
And you wallow in it.

The theory I have is far older than the Discovery Institute. If they want no part of the future of science then that's fine by me, I do not need them either.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,08:03   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,08:52)
Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,07:47)
There's a reason the word 'learn' is in scare quotes in the remark you quoted.

But of course that's part of the benefit you get from never defining your terms and never taking the next step past your 'premise'.
You quite literally depend on the ambiguity and equivocation inherent in 'intelligence'.  This renders your efforts ad hoc, unscientific and ultimately useless as anything other than (very bad) fan fic.

The (obvious and essential) next step past your pseudo-premise is the question 'how do we tell which things are which?'  Which are the features of the universe that are best explained by intelligent action and how do we know?
You obstinately refuse to address that problem.  That renders your work sterile, nay, puerile.

No definitions, no 'materials and methods', thus no science.
And you wallow in it.

The theory I have is far older than the Discovery Institute. If they want no part of the future of science then that's fine by me, I do not need them either.

That is entirely unresponsive to my post, which you quoted in full as if you were replying to it.

Hardly a surprise.  Others have suggested that you quite simply do not see those issues.  Is that it?  You are blind to the problems caused you your failure to precisely delimit what you mean by 'intelligence' and are somehow justified in ignoring the problem of distinguishing things that are best explained by intelligent agency from those that do not require or suggest such an explanation?

And just for the record, you don't have a theory.
You don't have any science except in the way a crow would have science if it took an unusually shiny science journal to its nest.  Literally.

What you have is superstitious claptrap that is infused with animism and superstition.  It has zero explanatory power, zero acceptance across all of humanity, and has zero value to thinking beings everywhere.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,08:09   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,13:52)
The theory I have is far older than the Discovery Institute. If they want no part of the future of science then that's fine by me, I do not need them either.

Then why do you continue to use their tag-line (The theory of intelligent design holds...blah...blah...) as if it were your own?

Did your Methodist upbringing not teach theft was a sin?

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,08:18   

You really are caught on the horns of a dilemma Gary.

If the 'theory' precedes the founding of the DI, how is it that 'only the DI should be concerned with' it?
If the DI is the only party who should be concerned with it, what justifies your claim-jumping into territory you acknowledge as exclusively theirs?
Or were you wrong, and the various notions of 'intelligent design' are open for anyone, not just the DI?

What is the history of the 'theory' you claim to be working with?  [superstitious animism, of course]
What have you added to it that wasn't already there? [appallingly bad syntax, semantics, and grammar laced with thought fragments that would embarrass an LSD casualty]
How have you advanced the state or status of the 'theory' with work that is uniquely and distinctively your own? [you haven't]
Why does the 'theory' need you? [it doesn't]
Why has it failed up to now?  That is, why is it not the dominant paradigm in science? [because it is not a theory, has no explanatory power, lacks any degree of precision in terminology, suggests no investigatory paths, parasitizes science in much the same way that crows search out shiny objects, etc.]

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,11:26   

Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,06:03)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,08:52)
Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,07:47)
There's a reason the word 'learn' is in scare quotes in the remark you quoted.

But of course that's part of the benefit you get from never defining your terms and never taking the next step past your 'premise'.
You quite literally depend on the ambiguity and equivocation inherent in 'intelligence'.  This renders your efforts ad hoc, unscientific and ultimately useless as anything other than (very bad) fan fic.

The (obvious and essential) next step past your pseudo-premise is the question 'how do we tell which things are which?'  Which are the features of the universe that are best explained by intelligent action and how do we know?
You obstinately refuse to address that problem.  That renders your work sterile, nay, puerile.

No definitions, no 'materials and methods', thus no science.
And you wallow in it.

The theory I have is far older than the Discovery Institute. If they want no part of the future of science then that's fine by me, I do not need them either.

That is entirely unresponsive to my post, which you quoted in full as if you were replying to it.

Hardly a surprise.  Others have suggested that you quite simply do not see those issues.  Is that it?  You are blind to the problems caused you your failure to precisely delimit what you mean by 'intelligence' and are somehow justified in ignoring the problem of distinguishing things that are best explained by intelligent agency from those that do not require or suggest such an explanation?

And just for the record, you don't have a theory.
You don't have any science except in the way a crow would have science if it took an unusually shiny science journal to its nest.  Literally.

What you have is superstitious claptrap that is infused with animism and superstition.  It has zero explanatory power, zero acceptance across all of humanity, and has zero value to thinking beings everywhere.

Gary sees himself as Galileo, and his critics as the Inquisition - if I remember correctly, he's made this exact analogy on several occasions.  Questions are evidence of the plan to suppress and silence him.  So are rejections from publishers and grant-makers.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,11:40   

It's a nice pre-emptive defensive move, especially for an incompetent, don't you think?
It's unbreakable as it rules out any possibility of learning from others or of growing as a person.  To say nothing of how entirely anti-scientific it is.
It suggests to me that he knows, at some level, just how absurd his position is.  But since that is forbidden, he must be a victim of others, not himself.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,12:49   

Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,09:40)
It suggests to me that he knows, at some level, just how absurd his position is.  But since that is forbidden, he must be a victim of others, not himself.

I disagree.  I think his narcissism is deeper than that.  He knows he's right.  Gary teaches, he doesn't need to learn.  He (thinks he) knows that everyone really agrees with him, but they're either part of the Intergalactic Anti-Gary Cabal, or afraid of it.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,13:02   

Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 20 2016,13:49)
Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,09:40)
It suggests to me that he knows, at some level, just how absurd his position is.  But since that is forbidden, he must be a victim of others, not himself.

I disagree.  I think his narcissism is deeper than that.  He knows he's right.  Gary teaches, he doesn't need to learn.  He (thinks he) knows that everyone really agrees with him, but they're either part of the Intergalactic Anti-Gary Cabal, or afraid of it.

Could be.

Although the very notion of Gary teaching is enough to bring on nausea.
Gary couldn't teach a dog to wag its tail.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,13:07   

Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,11:02)
Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 20 2016,13:49)
Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,09:40)
It suggests to me that he knows, at some level, just how absurd his position is.  But since that is forbidden, he must be a victim of others, not himself.

I disagree.  I think his narcissism is deeper than that.  He knows he's right.  Gary teaches, he doesn't need to learn.  He (thinks he) knows that everyone really agrees with him, but they're either part of the Intergalactic Anti-Gary Cabal, or afraid of it.

Could be.

Although the very notion of Gary teaching is enough to bring on nausea.
Gary couldn't teach a dog to wag its tail.

The dog's in on the conspiracy too.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,15:08   

Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 20 2016,14:07)
Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,11:02)
Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 20 2016,13:49)
 
Quote (NoName @ Jan. 20 2016,09:40)
It suggests to me that he knows, at some level, just how absurd his position is.  But since that is forbidden, he must be a victim of others, not himself.

I disagree.  I think his narcissism is deeper than that.  He knows he's right.  Gary teaches, he doesn't need to learn.  He (thinks he) knows that everyone really agrees with him, but they're either part of the Intergalactic Anti-Gary Cabal, or afraid of it.

Could be.

Although the very notion of Gary teaching is enough to bring on nausea.
Gary couldn't teach a dog to wag its tail.

The dog's in on the conspiracy too.

Yeah, even atoms are.  Despite all evidence to the contrary (i.e., all evidence and reason), atoms have to learn how to bind to other atoms to form molecules.
Gary has said as much, repeatedly, and steadfastly avoids any clarification of where in the scale from atoms to macroscopic entities (rocks, dogs, people, bridges) intelligent agency is required.  That comes far far too close to addressing the dead elephant in the room -- his banal and trivial "premise" is worthless without taking the next step of identifying which features of the universe are best explained by intelligent cause and which features are not best explained by such a cause.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,16:37   

Quote (Woodbine @ Jan. 20 2016,08:09)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,13:52)
The theory I have is far older than the Discovery Institute. If they want no part of the future of science then that's fine by me, I do not need them either.

Then why do you continue to use their tag-line (The theory of intelligent design holds...blah...blah...) as if it were your own?

Did your Methodist upbringing not teach theft was a sin?

Then tell me who owns "String Theory"?

Have you paid your royalty fees for using "evolutionary theory" in your discussions?

How much money does the US public schools have to pay for the rights to teach all of the scientific theories in science? It must be millions or billions of dollars right?

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,16:42   

Quote
Yeah, even atoms are.  Despite all evidence to the contrary (i.e., all evidence and reason), atoms have to learn how to bind to other atoms to form molecules.
Gary has said as much, repeatedly, and steadfastly avoids any clarification of where in the scale from atoms to macroscopic entities (rocks, dogs, people, bridges) intelligent agency is required.  That comes far far too close to addressing the dead elephant in the room -- his banal and trivial "premise" is worthless without taking the next step of identifying which features of the universe are best explained by intelligent cause and which features are not best explained by such a cause.


I honestly think that Gaulin does not understand what is wrong with the ID's "best explained by Intelligent Cause" phrase. He cannot grasp abstract thoughts such as triviality. When it says "certain aspects" he assumes that it means "all aspects".

As evidenced by his poor attempts at insults subtlety in meaning is beyond his mental capacity. This is why he uses VB and not a better platform for his "model" he is limited by this lack of capacity.

We keep asking Gaulin for definitions for the concepts, like molecular intelligence, best guess and even intelligence, as he uses the words. He cannot supply these because he doesn't know how he is using them, his appalling use of language demonstrates this.

Gaulin will not admit that he has wasted years of his time on the rubbish he types. I can only feel pity for him and his family. I know I shouldn't make fun of him but his unwillingness to learn from his many mistakes does not leave any other choice. Ignoring him is not an option because I don't want such misinformation to influence the K to 12 ages he is supposedly aiming at.

Not that he will gain much traction there.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,16:52   

And the psychopathic liars are back. I'm not bothering with the scumbags.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,17:00   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,17:52)
And the psychopathic liars are back. I'm not bothering with the scumbags.

You keep flinging around the word 'liars' but you have never once identified a single lie told by anyone about you or your ridiculous "theory."
Shameful.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,17:01   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,16:52)
And the psychopathic liars are back. I'm not bothering with the scumbags.

4500 posts say that's a lie.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,20:05   

Gary, I'm assuming you like that statement ("The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection") in part because you don't like natural selection.  However, you have yet to present any valid justification for your dislike, or in fact much explanation of your dislike all.  As we have been saying for ages now, you are also still failing to notice that saying "some features" without further specification makes the whole statement ridiculous.  It is trivially true, and completely vacuous.  As we've said lots of times, no one doubts that the Mona Lisa, the hadron supercollider, and flint arrowheads are features of the universe and that they have been designed. Furthermore, domesticated plants and animals have also been designed, via selective breeding (e.g. there is little undesigned about all the Brassica vegetables.)  However, the DI leaves out any specification so that it can be a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" statement that opens the barn door wide enough to let whole herds of deities wander in and out of the building.  Apparently, you see this as an admirable goal that lets you merge science and religion.  However, since it is at heart vacuous, it doesn't do anything of the sort.  It just mixes up your pile of manure with a completely separate but equally objectionable pile of different manure.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,20:08   

www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/capcha-problem-fixed/#comment-595605
 
Quote
GaryGaulin - January 20, 2016 at 8:05 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Testing. 1, 2, 3. Test, test..

LOL!

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,20:49   

Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 20 2016,20:05)
Gary, I'm assuming you like that statement ("The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection") in part because you don't like natural selection.

FYI:
http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums....earning
Quote
The "natural selection" generalization muddled their theory (natural selection produces nothing, only the genetic system produces biological designs) but they are on the right track.


I might need to add a reply stating that from what I could read of the closed-access paper the authors did not include "natural selection" in the statement that the article paraphrased.

Relying on "natural selection" might still be popular with science news reporters and people like you but that's because you are unable to be specific, must instead generalize.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,21:07   

Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 20 2016,20:05)
However, you have yet to present any valid justification for your dislike, or in fact much explanation of your dislike all.

Here is something I posted earlier that you are welcomed to answer:

ncse.com/blog/2016/01/say-what-telegraph-scientist-team-up-to-make-me-very-very-0016871#comment-2469123313

And is "evolution" intelligent like the authors of the paper stated or is that a generalization that should not have been used?

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,21:52   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-595605
Quote
GaryGaulin January 20, 2016 at 8:05 pm
Testing. 1, 2, 3. Test, test..

OMG!

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,22:32   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,21:07)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 20 2016,20:05)
However, you have yet to present any valid justification for your dislike, or in fact much explanation of your dislike all.

Here is something I posted earlier that you are welcomed to answer:

ncse.com/blog/2016/01/say-what-telegraph-scientist-team-up-to-make-me-very-very-0016871#comment-2469123313

And is "evolution" intelligent like the authors of the paper stated or is that a generalization that should not have been used?

From me, several years ago:
 
Quote
Some of what you say about "learning", "learning circuits", "memory" and "guesses" can be applied, metaphorically, to how DNA results from (and therefore records) previously successful mutations.  In that way, the population or species could in a crude sense be said to have "learned".  However, populations aren't exactly individuals, mutations aren't exactly guesses, DNA isn't exactly memory, and changes in gene frequency aren't exactly learning.  Worse, we know of no way that "intelligence" can act or even exist at the levels you discuss.  Moreover, everything we know about the system tells us that the processes in evolutionary theory work as advertised.  In short, you've gone overboard on an unfortunate metaphor.


From Midwife Toad, also several years ago:    
Quote

Evolution has been viewed metaphorically as a learning system since the early 20th century. You need to discuss these earlier writings and tell us how your theory builds on them or differs from them.
...........
Your perspective is not new. The idea that evolution is a kind of learning is perhaps a hundred years old. I know of at least one explicit reference from 1928.  The problem is that it is a metaphor and an analogy, and learning simulations don't really say anything specific about the way chemistry works.

Nor about the biology, which is well established from studies in ecology, population genetics, and the like.

You continue to misunderstand and misrepresent evolutionary theory and natural selection.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,22:49   

Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 20 2016,22:32)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2016,21:07)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 20 2016,20:05)
However, you have yet to present any valid justification for your dislike, or in fact much explanation of your dislike all.

Here is something I posted earlier that you are welcomed to answer:

ncse.com/blog/2016/01/say-what-telegraph-scientist-team-up-to-make-me-very-very-0016871#comment-2469123313

And is "evolution" intelligent like the authors of the paper stated or is that a generalization that should not have been used?

From me, several years ago:
 
Quote
Some of what you say about "learning", "learning circuits", "memory" and "guesses" can be applied, metaphorically, to how DNA results from (and therefore records) previously successful mutations.  In that way, the population or species could in a crude sense be said to have "learned".  However, populations aren't exactly individuals, mutations aren't exactly guesses, DNA isn't exactly memory, and changes in gene frequency aren't exactly learning.  Worse, we know of no way that "intelligence" can act or even exist at the levels you discuss.  Moreover, everything we know about the system tells us that the processes in evolutionary theory work as advertised.  In short, you've gone overboard on an unfortunate metaphor.


From Midwife Toad, also several years ago:    
Quote

Evolution has been viewed metaphorically as a learning system since the early 20th century. You need to discuss these earlier writings and tell us how your theory builds on them or differs from them.
...........
Your perspective is not new. The idea that evolution is a kind of learning is perhaps a hundred years old. I know of at least one explicit reference from 1928.  The problem is that it is a metaphor and an analogy, and learning simulations don't really say anything specific about the way chemistry works.

Nor about the biology, which is well established from studies in ecology, population genetics, and the like.

Show me where I state in the theory that "evolution is intelligent":

https://sites.google.com/site....ign.pdf

You and others are seeing things.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,23:06   

First of all, you just asked whether I agreed with the idea that evolution is intelligent, and I'm showing how that question has already been asked and answered.  Secondly, you are proposing to replace evolution via mutation, recombination, natural selection, and drift by an ill-defined and poorly thought-out process that you keep calling intelligent design, so yes, you are ascribing changes in lifeforms over generations to intelligence.


From Jim Wynne, also several years ago,  
Quote
I think the idea is defensible that extant species are lineages whose ancestors made successful / lucky guesses. That seems a reasonable metaphor, and it's not wrong to see all living organisms as descendants of a long line of lottery winners, so to speak.  However, the "guesses" (which, yes, aren't really guesses) are essentially always made before the question is posed.  Each individual has in effect proposed its answers before receiving the test.  This is where the metaphors derail when they think of intelligent genome-level responses to life's challenges: all bets are placed before the wheel spins, and most individuals respond by going bankrupt / dying / failing to reproduce.   Notwithstanding the intellectual attractiveness of the idea, intelligent, individual, evolution-level responses do not seem to be a possibility.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2016,23:34   

Quote (N.Wells @ Jan. 20 2016,23:06)
First of all, you just asked whether I agreed with the idea that evolution is intelligent, and I'm showing how that question has already been asked and answered.  Secondly, you are proposing to replace evolution via mutation, recombination, natural selection, and drift by an ill-defined and poorly thought-out process that you keep calling intelligent design, so yes, you are ascribing changes in lifeforms over generations to intelligence.


From Jim Wynne, also several years ago,  
Quote
I think the idea is defensible that extant species are lineages whose ancestors made successful / lucky guesses. That seems a reasonable metaphor, and it's not wrong to see all living organisms as descendants of a long line of lottery winners, so to speak.  However, the "guesses" (which, yes, aren't really guesses) are essentially always made before the question is posed.  Each individual has in effect proposed its answers before receiving the test.  This is where the metaphors derail when they think of intelligent genome-level responses to life's challenges: all bets are placed before the wheel spins, and most individuals respond by going bankrupt / dying / failing to reproduce.   Notwithstanding the intellectual attractiveness of the idea, intelligent, individual, evolution-level responses do not seem to be a possibility.

If the proper terminology required for Cognitive Science is too difficult for you then you should stay out of discussions where it is required.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2016,03:05   

Quote
If the proper terminology required for Cognitive Science is too difficult for you then you should stay out of discussions where it is required.


Is this a chance to ask Gaulin for HIS definitions of the words, molecular intelligence, best guess and intelligence,etc. etc., that he abuses so readily? Yes it is!

So Gaulin, please provide the definitions for the scientific concepts you have been distorting in your "theory of everything".

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2016,06:18   

Gary, please note that 'evolution' is far less a generalization than 'Cognitive Science'.
It is far less a generalization than 'intelligence'.

Your absurd and perverse opposition to "generalizations" is itself a generalization.
There is nothing wrong with generalizations per se.
And if there were, your vaunted "premise" would be first up against the wall.

Language is not your friend.  Nor, apparently, is thinking.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2016,06:42   

Quote
If the proper terminology required for Cognitive Science is too difficult for you then you should stay out of discussions where it is required.


That's an false attack, but nevertheless the proper terminology for pretty much everything in biology is clearly too difficult for you, so by your logic you should stay out of everything biological.  

In fact, seeing how general usage of words in English eludes you, ..................

  
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