Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Posted: Feb. 13 2006,19:05

Quote (phishyphred @ Feb. 13 2006,05:46)

pim van meurs who do not even say his whole name anymore and go only by initial pvm...who have no entry in panda thumb contributor list...

look like whoever got him good scandal material...pim van meur is designated attack dog for all "reputable" scientist who need maintain veneer of propriety since they unlike pim have reputation to protect...

This would indicate to me that 'phishyphred' is the same troll named 'whoever' currently incoherently harassing Pim over at PT. He acts more straightforwardly like Davison there, and less like someone suffering from some untreated head injury.

If these are the most formidable opponents evolution theory has, I think we're in a pretty good position.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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Posted: Feb. 13 2006,20:07

never underestimate the insane.

djmullen

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Posted: Feb. 13 2006,23:16

Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 13 2006,14:55)

Everybody who wants thread #809 over at Uncommon Pissant better go get it now. DaveScot is claiming that obviously Cartesian Dualism is crap, and that the mind is just what the brain does. At some point he'll be clued in to the fact that Overlord Dembski is a Cartesian Dualist. When that happens, the thread might do the disappearing act thread 744 did.

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Let me know when you have some way of measuring mind apart from brain and you can argue with me about it. In the meantime mind/brain duality strikes me as wool gathering so you aren�t going to persuade me of anything no matter how hard you try.

--DaveScot

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Everybody who wants thread #809 over at Uncommon Pissant better go get it now.

Where are the thread numbers over there?

Stephen Elliott

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,00:18

Quote (phishyphred @ Feb. 13 2006,05:55)

steppy "bad teeth" elliot...how my wwii knowledge spotty?...my dad tailgunner in U.S. B-26 Marauder medium bomber flying out of england in 1944...he fly 25 missions over germany and get lucky he not in 33% of american bomber crew killed keeping the nazis out of your crappy little island...ever see real norton bombsight photos of bomb blowing crap out of germany?...i got stacks of them...plus hundreds pictures of american forces in wwii britain...formation flying over germany...bomb in midair...sky filled with flak...you say america not save you?...i say eat turd and die ungrateful beeatch

Hehe. You are funny.

Caledonian

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,02:40

Incredible! DS completely misses the point of the post -- it's not arguing that mind can be measured apart from brain, it's arguing that Dembski believes otherwise. DS's response furthers the conflict between himself and Dembski.

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,04:18

Quote

Where are the thread numbers over there?

Put your mouse on the main link on a thread, and see what it says in the status bar

gregonomic

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,04:32

Did anyone notice this comment in thread #809 at UD?

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As far as Davison goes sometimes you have to take the bad with the good. He�s a brilliant experimental biologist with 50 years experience at it. He was Sternberged 20 years ago by the Darwinian priesthood for heresy and has good reason to be hateful about it. What they�ve done and continue to do to him is despicable. You get back what you give out. If nothing else show some respect for your elders and cut them some slack.

Comment by DaveScot � February 13, 2006 @ 10:31 am

Was this common knowledge to people here? It's the first I'd heard of it. Explains his fury, I suppose. Although, given his insane ramblings, it doesn't really surprise me that he was "Sternberged".

guthrie

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,04:45

I believe DAvison retired in 2000, as an emeritus professor. That seems good going for someone allegedly Sternberged in 1986. Anyone want to ask him for evidence?

Arden Chatfield

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,05:07

Quote (guthrie @ Feb. 14 2006,10:45)

I believe DAvison retired in 2000, as an emeritus professor. �That seems good going for someone allegedly Sternberged in 1986. �Anyone want to ask him for evidence?

Maybe his martyrdom was retroactive. It took 14 years to take effect. Meanwhile he continued to be employed and to write daffy 'manifestos' the whole while. Rather a wimpy martyrdom.

Can someone explain to me what it means to be 'sternberged'?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Russell

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,05:15

Quote

He was Sternberged 20 years ago by the Darwinian priesthood for heresy and has good reason to be hateful about it. What they�ve done and continue to do to him is despicable.

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Was this common knowledge to people here?

Was what common knowledge? What does it mean to be "Sternberged"? What was done and what continues to be done? I generally don't waste too much time trying to check the veracity of rants involving �Darwinian priesthoods persecuting heretics; it always leads to the same results. But especially if it comes from DaveScot.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

guthrie

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,05:20

I understand that Sternberg was that journal editor who snuck an ID related paper into the journal just before he retired, and was then roundly condemned for it. Or did he resign? Anyway, details will be at the PT.

This kind of statement is begging for evidence. You know, like letters from faculty saying " Dear Dr Davison, please stop your research because it contradicts all we know about evolution.", followed by "Since you have not stopped your research, we are sacking you."

I sincerely doubt that any such evidence exists though.

Russell

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,05:33

I'm more or less familiar with the Sternberg story, and am not particularly impressed by his claims to martyrdom, nor by his professed innocence of creationist motives. (Exhibit A: consulting for the Baraminology Research Group; Exhibit B: participating in an ID advocates-only "conference" at Biola - the one from which Wesley was cordially uninvited).

But whatever happened in that case, and whether or not it was unfair, to say that Davison was "Sternberged" is uninformative, just inflammatory. In other words, typical DaveScot.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

gregonomic

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,05:55

I wouldn't put much stock in any claim by DaveScot or JAD either.

I just thought that someone around these parts was asking questions about what happened to JAD ~20 years ago that caused him to drop off the science map. And I thought this might be an explanation.

Of course, submitting wacky papers might have been a symptom, not a cause.

Mr_Christopher

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,06:44

Are you guys aware that JAD has "featured" papers published on Dembski's International Society for Complexity, Information, and Design (ISCID) website?

JAD and Dembski, sittin' in a tree...

Keep in mind according to ISCID " The archive is moderated to assure that articles meet minimum scholarly standards and are relevant to the study of complex systems." Therefore JAD must meet Dembski's standards.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Stephen Elliott

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,07:26

I thought this was funny.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/nuclear-evolution-debate/

Is anyone from here still allowed to post?

Seems like a pretty empty invitation.

GCT

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,07:35

It sounds a lot like an invitation from Dr. Dino.

It would certainly be humorous if someone posted over there something like this, "Check peer-reviewed journals X, Y, Z, etc. from about the years 1880 - present if you want evidence."

guthrie

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,08:00

Sure, I know DS is uummmmmm, the intellectual equivalent of a schemie, but lurkers and people who are new to this dont know that. Thats why the whack-attack on creationist/ ID claims is so necessary.

improvius

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,08:16

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 14 2006,11:07)

[quote=guthrie,Feb. 14 2006,10:45]Can someone explain to me what it means to be 'sternberged'?

I think it means you misplace your keys for about a day or so.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)

Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

jeannot

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,08:30

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 14 2006,13:26)

I thought this was funny.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/nuclear-evolution-debate/

Is anyone from here still allowed to post?

Seems like a pretty empty invitation.

Actually, we can't asnwer their question. No one can prove that random mutations + selection is responsible for the rise of the eukaryotes.
For this, we would have to test most of the intermediate forms from prokaryotes to eukaryotes (which disappeared more than a billion years ago), detect wich mutations occured and measure their benefits on fitness (not in the lab since it does not perfectly match natural conditions).
Of course, we do have evidence that eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes, and natural selection is certainly the factor acting here (since we don't know any other evolution mechanism, except drift), but we can't prove it nor test it, AFAIK.

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,08:45

Quote

February 14, 2006
Nuclear Evolution Debate

This page is for an as-yet-to-be-named person from Panda�s Thumb to present all the evidence, predictions, and repeatable tests that neoDarwinian theory has to support the hypothesis of random mutation + natural selection being the mechanism underlying the evolution of the eukaryote nucleus from a prokaryote ancestor. �Whoever� will then fisk the presentation in an attempt to show that NDE�s claim is entirely vacuous. I don�t expect there will be any volunteers from Panda�s Thumb and that�s okay too because it will show they can�t even begin to make a reasonable argument in support of a neoDarwinian mechanism for this crucial event in the evolution of life.

The challenge was made here.
Filed under: Intelligent Design � Administrator @ 11:50 am

The nucleus challenge is just a request to fill a certain gap. Young Earth Creationist Henry Morris, in 1974, said the same thing about the "gap" between vertebrates and invertebrates. The front page of Uncommon Descent is therefore a micromutated creationist argument from 30 years ago.

Furthermore, here are some Creation Science websites where creationists argue that a prokaryote could not have led to an eukaryote:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2/4341_endosymbiont.asp
http://www.creationinfo.com/evcr/6_7_2004.htm
http://blogger.xs4all.nl/jcdverha/archive/2004/12/11/17189.aspx
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3105.html

Answers in Genesis:

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Did cells acquire organelles such as mitochondria by gobbling up other cells?

(Or, can the endosymbiont theory explain the origin of eukaryotic cells?)

by Dr Don Batten, AiG�Australia

6 July 2000

Thanks, Uncommon Pissants, for helping demonstrate that Intelligent Design = Creationism.

Rilke's Granddaughter

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,11:24

I note that the 'challenge' posted by "whoever" has now disappeared from the Uncommon Descent front page.

One would have to archive the entire thing every five minutes to keep up with the various attempts to cover up ill-considered, ignorant, or simply idiotic statements made over there.

Mr_Christopher

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,12:20

Quote (Rilke's Granddaughter @ Feb. 14 2006,17:24)

I note that the 'challenge' posted by "whoever" has now disappeared from the Uncommon Descent front page.

One would have to archive the entire thing every five minutes to keep up with the various attempts to cover up ill-considered, ignorant, or simply idiotic statements made over there.

One of these days the Insane Creationist Clown Posse is going to accidently ban themselves.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,13:15

no, it's still there. look in the list on the right-hand side

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,13:44

Quote

One of these days the Insane Creationist Clown Posse is going to accidently ban themselves.

"Leader: We are the Judean People's Front crack suicide squad!
Suicide squad, attack! (they all stab themselves)

That showed 'em, huh? "

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,16:32

Is there any way to make me feel better about my annual ACLU dues, than Doug Moron posting the following at Uncommon Pissant?

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ACLU: America�s Intellectual Terrorists

I don't think there is.

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,16:40

nice mullet.

Rilke's Granddaughter

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,18:42

Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 14 2006,19:15)

no, it's still there. look in the list on the right-hand side

Well, bother! 'twasn't there when I looked. Perhaps they added it back, in order to avoid embarrassment?

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Posted: Feb. 14 2006,22:19

####, gotta hate stream of consciousness ramblings from crack addicts.

you do know there are treatment programs for that, right?

Stephen Elliott

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