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stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,14:23   

I guess I should cancel my ACLU membership. Stop appreciating Miro paintings. Tell my girlfriend I don't love her.

Because according to some guy who doesn't know me, I only care about fulfilling my duty to our species' DNA. Glad that christian guy came along to tell me what I think.

   
avocationist



Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,14:23   

CJ,
Quote
ID claims to want to revolutionize --and redefine-- science,
They want to take philosophical materialism out of science as a given. Note the word philosophical.

Your scenario was funny, but I just don't think that would happen.

Quote
Avocationist: how many papers did you say you've published?
Careful there. If a reasonably intelligent and interested layperson cannot come to an opinion, then like I said yesterday, get this out of high school, get this out of undergrad studies and put it in grad school where it belongs and leave the public out of it.

As for whether I'm ignoring evidence, surely you realize this is one of the biggest complaints of the ID against Darwinists.  Anyway, I just ordered the Mayr book, if that helps. At least, I'm sure I'll never again forget the plural of genus.

Also, last but not least, I have spent a heluva lot of time reading, and while it has mostly been from the anti-darwinian point of view, I have actively sought out actual responses to actual ID claims and that is why I have read the Meyer paper and its critique and the answers to the critique, and the Flagellum papers and the answers to the critique, and the whole fish eyes debate, and a few more I can't remember. I think a book like The Origin of Species Revisited by Bird, while he seems to be a creationist, is one very long list of what appears to be in-context quotes from a huge number of well known and published proponents of the theory of evolution. About half the book is quotes and it is surely the most documented book ever written.

As for Dembski, I listened to his recent talk, (which was not interesting in that it was an intro to ID) but he quotes James Shapiro saying that there are no good Darawinian pathways to compleax biological systems, just wishful speculations. And James Shapiro knows that Dembski uses that quote, and he wrote to Dembski and said, don't you know I support evolution? And Dembski said, I always tell them that.

Russell,

Quote
But a lot of vaccine candidates don't work, or worse, actually exacerbate the disease they're supposed to prevent. Why they do that is the subject of intense research, involving all the tools of modern biology, to which evolutionary theory is integral. You can't pick up a journal, or go to a meeting, concerning vaccine development where evolution, whether of pathogens or of the immune system, is not explicitly or implicitly central to most of the articles or talks.
 Yes, the critters are very complex, all critters are complex and their interactions even more so. But please be more specific as to how it matters in what manner said critters arrived on the scene? Wouldn't everything work the same way even if God designed them all last week down to the last atom?

Quote
AND... do you suppose the current concern over avian flu is predicated on the possibility of that nonexistent random mutation converting a barely competent human pathogen into a highly contagious agent, under the influence of the highly controversial natural selection? Or do you think scientists are just waiting to see if the Intelligent Designer is in a capricious mood?
Obviously little critters mutate as ABX resistance shows, and in fact they seem to have some input about it. Nobody in ID or even the creationsists dispute that the flu could mutate to jump species.


Although Wells does site inappropriate usages which are retained for convenience long after they ought to be jettisoned, I still don't think that IDists consider Darwinists to be generally engaging in conscious fraudulency. Certainly, I don't. Go over to UD and check out the Darawin's birthday thread. Someone there has quoted Niles Eldridge condemnating the promotion of the horse series long after it was known to be outdated. And good ole JAD defended Haeckel.

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,14:42   

gregonomics

"If there was no evolutionary relationship between any of the animals on Earth, then there would be no reason to choose one animal as a model over any other. Why would we not choose cockroaches, since they satisfy all of the requirements far better than mice do?"

say it be proved true God design life...you think rats magically not be rats and people not be people anymore?

relationship now is objective reality...how relationship established in past immaterial to reality today...understand?...no matter what history turn out be true present not change

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,15:01   

for balance...a$$hole on both side...all quote below same person

"It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."

anyone don't know who say?...hint: bloody famous a$$hole

darwin=faith in no god=contrarian religion

"Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist."

design is appearance...random is real

"Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose."

why not random is appearance...design is real?

gradual evolution  

"Evolution is very possibly not, in actual fact, always gradual. But it must be gradual when it is being used to explain the coming into existence of complicated, apparently designed objects, like eyes. For if it is not gradual in these cases, it ceases to have any explanatory power at all. Without gradualness in these cases, we are back to miracle, which is simply a synonym for the total absence of explanation."

finally a bit honest!!!

"The account of the origin of life that I shall give is necessarily speculative; by definition, nobody was around to see what happened."

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,15:12   

gregonomic

in real world one want to know how much money russel get paid for publishing...credential mean nothing...bill gates almost richest most influential man in world is college dropout...michael dell revolutionize computer manufacturing get $20 billion for trouble he drop out of college too...even nobel winner get money prize...how much that russell piece worth to the market in yankee dollah?

not mean to be mean but appeal to credential is last defense of losing argument

  
gregonomic



Posts: 44
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,15:14   

Quote (avocationist @ Feb. 10 2006,20:23)
Quote
Avocationist: how many papers did you say you've published?
Careful there. If a reasonably intelligent and interested layperson cannot come to an opinion, then like I said yesterday, get this out of high school, get this out of undergrad studies and put it in grad school where it belongs and leave the public out of it.

A reasonably intelligent and interested layperson - even a ninth grader - can quite easily understand, and even accept (if they haven't already acquired a mental block which prevents them from doing so), the fundamentals of the Theory of Evolution, as I hope you'll discover when you read Mayr.

It has been said a thousand times already, but I'll say it again: we should be teaching high-school students accepted scientific theories (or at least the basics of those theories). The point I was trying to make with that comment was that it is invariably non-biologists (like you) who are trying to tell us biologists what is and isn't an accepted theory in biology. The Theory of Evolution is accepted by biologists, whether you like it or not (clearly you don't).

I sincerely hope you get something out of Mayr's book. But given that you've already made up your mind that mutations aren't necessary or sufficient to explain evolution, before you've bothered to learn what mutations even are, I suspect my hope is in vain.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,15:22   

Quote
Yes, the critters are very complex, all critters are complex and their interactions even more so. But please be more specific as to how it matters in what manner said critters arrived on the scene? Wouldn't everything work the same way even if God designed them all last week down to the last atom?
Are you intentionally being obtuse? Do you really think our understanding of biology, our ability to use it and predict it, is independent of our understanding of how organisms evolve?

Quote
Obviously little critters mutate as ABX resistance shows, and in fact they seem to have some input about it. Nobody in ID or even the creationsists dispute that the flu could mutate to jump species.
Excuse me while I bang my head against the wall for a while...
OK, I'm back. You just finished suggesting that the mechanisms by which organisms came to be what they are, are irrelevant to how we understand biology. We "Darwinists" (read: actual working scientists) think that mutation and selection are central to those mechanisms.  IDers seem to think mutation and selection are secondary at best. I'm telling you mutation and selection are all we have to understand how and why influenza changes. If you think there's some other force we need to be aware of, I suggest you contact the World Health Organization and the Center for Disease Control forthwith.

Quote
I think a book like The Origin of Species Revisited by Bird, while he seems to be a creationist, is one very long list of what appears to be in-context quotes from a huge number of well known and published proponents of the theory of evolution.
If you're interested in biology or science, why oh why are you  reading what some lawyer has to say about it? There really is no shortage of biology books written by actual biologists.
Quote
About half the book is quotes and it is surely the most documented book ever written.
Let me just repeat that for emphasis:
Quote
it is surely the most documented book ever written
I think I may resume banging my head against the wall. It seems to be more productive than this exercise in futility.

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
gregonomic



Posts: 44
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,15:49   

Quote (phishyphred @ Feb. 10 2006,20:42)
say it be proved true God design life...you think rats magically not be rats and people not be people anymore?

relationship now is objective reality...how relationship established in past immaterial to reality today...understand?...no matter what history turn out be true present not change

Congratulations on issuing the standard creationist response. I'll hold back on my reply until I've worked out whether you're an honest-to-goodness serious creationist, or just a parody there-of.

Quote (phishyphred @ Feb. 10 2006,21<!--emo&:0)
"It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."

anyone don't know who say?...hint: bloody famous a$$hole

Which part of Dawkins' statement do you disagree with?

Quote (phishyphred @ Feb. 10 2006,21:12)
in real world one want to know how much money russel get paid for publishing...credential mean nothing...bill gates almost richest most influential man in world is college dropout...michael dell revolutionize computer manufacturing get $20 billion for trouble he drop out of college too...even nobel winner get money prize...how much that russell piece worth to the market in yankee dollah?

You clearly have no idea how little scientists get paid.

By the way. Gates, Dell, etc, actually produced something that was (arguably) useful to actual people. IDiots don't.

Quote
not mean to be mean but appeal to credential is last defense of losing argument

Why is it always people with no credentials who say this?

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,15:56   

truth?

An open letter to the Kansas State Board of Education from Professor Philip S. Skell, Member, National Academy of Sciences, Evan Pugh Professor of Chemistry, Emeritus Penn State University.

May 12, 2005

Dr. Steve E. Abrams, Chair
Kansas State Board of Education
C/o Kansas State Department of Education
120 SE 10th Avenue
Topeka KS 66612-1182
Fax: (785) 296-7933

Dear Dr. Abrams:

I have been following the controversy over the adoption of new science standards in your state with interest. I am writing—as a member of the National Academy of Sciences—to voice my strong support for the idea that students should be able to study scientific criticisms of the evidence for modern evolutionary theory along with the evidence favoring the theory.

All too often, the issue of how to teach evolutionary theory has been dominated by voices at the extremes. On one extreme, many religious activists have advocated for Bible-based ideas about creation to be taught and for evolution to be eliminated from the science curriculum entirely. On the other hand, many committed Darwinian biologists present students with an idealized version of the theory that glosses over real problems and prevents students from learning about genuine scientific criticisms of it.

Both these extremes are mistaken. Evolution is an important theory and students need to know about it. But scientific journals now document many scientific problems and criticisms of evolutionary theory and students need to know about these as well.

Many of the scientific criticisms of which I speak are well known by scientists in various disciplines, including the disciplines of chemistry and biochemistry, in which I have done my work. I have found that some of my scientific colleagues are very reluctant to acknowledge the existence of problems with evolutionary theory to the general public. They display an almost religious zeal for a strictly Darwinian view of biological origins.

Darwinian evolution is an interesting theory about the remote history of life. Nonetheless, it has little practical impact on those branches of science that do not address questions of biological history (largely based on stones, the fossil evidence). Modern biology is engaged in the examination of tissues from living organisms with new methods and instruments. None of the great discoveries in biology and medicine over the past century depended on guidance from Darwinian evolution---it provided no support.

As an aside, one might ask what Darwin would have written today if he was aware of the present state of knowledge of cell biology, rather than that of the mid 19th century when it was generally believed the cell was an enclosed blob of gelatin? As an exemplar, I draw your attention to what Prof. James A. Shapiro, bacteriologist, U. of Chicago, wrote (http://www.bostonreview.net/br22.1/shapiro.html ).

For those scientists who take it seriously, Darwinian evolution has functioned more as a philosophical belief system than as a testable scientific hypothesis. This quasi-religious function of the theory is, I think, what lies behind many of the extreme statements that you have doubtless encountered from some scientists opposing any criticism of neo-Darwinism in the classroom. It is also why many scientists make public statements about the theory that they would not defend privately to other scientists like me.

In my judgment, this state of affairs has persisted mainly because too many scientists were afraid to challenge what had become a philosophical orthodoxy among their colleagues. Fortunately, that is changing as many scientists are now beginning to examine the evidence for neo-Darwinism more openly and critically in scientific journals.

Intellectual freedom is fundamental to the scientific method. Learning to think creatively, logically and critically is the most important training that young scientists can receive. Encouraging students to carefully examine the evidence for and against neo-Darwinism, therefore, will help prepare students not only to understand current scientific arguments, but also to do good scientific research.

I commend you for your efforts to ensure that students are more fully informed about current debates over neo-Darwinism in the scientific community.

Yours sincerely,

Professor Philip S. Skell
Member, National Academy of Sciences
Evan Pugh Professor of Chemistry, Emeritus
Penn State University

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,16:00   

"Why is it always people with no credentials who say this?"

same reason people with no money always say what you say?

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,16:10   

"You clearly have no idea how little scientists get paid."

no...i do have idea...that the whole point...scientist in academy are how you say...dime a dozen?...people who can, do...people who can't, teach...academic credential not valuable to people who pay bills...people lie, money is honest

  
gregonomic



Posts: 44
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,16:10   

Philip S. Skell

  
gregonomic



Posts: 44
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,16:21   

Quote (phishyphred @ Feb. 10 2006,22:10)
people lie, money is honest

Riiiight. What about people who lie for money?

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,16:35   

gregonomic

mibad...i think your name for understanding of capitalist system...you know...like follow the money...must be ergonomic not economic...maybe instead of study relation of worker to environment you study relation of worker to paycheck

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,16:42   

theological question

does God care if i treat atheist with meanness?

hahaha...i on a real roll tonight...next stop comedy central

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,17:09   

Quote

They want to take philosophical materialism out of science as a given. Note the word philosophical.


Why, then, is it that they also take out any mention of a need to test ideas against the empirical evidence?

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,17:31   

ah so...phil skell speak atheist evolutionist heresy he get trashed by Pim Van Meurs?

you compete with me on joke, right?  Pim Van Meurs...hahaha...good one...that little turd is such an embarrassment he isn't even listed as panda thumb contributor even tho he post more article there than anyone else...now what is REAL comeback to NAS scientist Phil Skell Mister Gergonomic?

  
phishyphred



Posts: 26
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,18:07   

ah so...we have Russell Who??? with credentials???? saying evolution is important to his work on an obscure message board read by no one important against NAS member Phil Skell asking 70 eminent researchers if they would have done their work differently if they had thought Darwin's theory was wrong.  Every one said NO.

please...please...who do I believe...Phil Skell in Scientist or this Russell person who posts his important sayings on Uncommon Pissant???

you DO compete with me for joke Mister Gergonomic and I think you WIN with that one!  hahahahahahahahahaha

----------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.the-scientist.com/2005/8/29/10/1/

by Philip S Skell


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


OPINION
Why Do We Invoke Darwin?
Darwin's theory of evolution offers a sweeping explanation of the history of life, from the earliest microscopic organisms billions of years ago to all the plants and animals around us today.


The Scientist 2005, 19(16):10


Published   29 August 2005

Darwin's theory of evolution offers a sweeping explanation of the history of life, from the earliest microscopic organisms billions of years ago to all the plants and animals around us today. Much of the evidence that might have established the theory on an unshakable empirical foundation, however, remains lost in the distant past. For instance, Darwin hoped we would discover transitional precursors to the animal forms that appear abruptly in the Cambrian strata. Since then we have found many ancient fossils – even exquisitely preserved soft-bodied creatures – but none are credible ancestors to the Cambrian animals.


Despite this and other difficulties, the modern form of Darwin's theory has been raised to its present high status because it's said to be the cornerstone of modern experimental biology. But is that correct? "While the great majority of biologists would probably agree with Theodosius Dobzhansky's dictum that 'nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution,' most can conduct their work quite happily without particular reference to evolutionary ideas," A.S. Wilkins, editor of the journal BioEssays, wrote in 2000.[1] "Evolution would appear to be the indispensable unifying idea and, at the same time, a highly superfluous one."


I would tend to agree. Certainly, my own research with antibiotics during World War II received no guidance from insights provided by Darwinian evolution. Nor did Alexander Fleming's discovery of bacterial inhibition by penicillin. I recently asked more than 70 eminent researchers if they would have done their work differently if they had thought Darwin's theory was wrong. The responses were all the same: No.


I also examined the outstanding biodiscoveries of the past century: the discovery of the double helix; the characterization of the ribosome; the mapping of genomes; research on medications and drug reactions; improvements in food production and sanitation; the development of new surgeries; and others. I even queried biologists working in areas where one would expect the Darwinian paradigm to have most benefited research, such as the emergence of resistance to antibiotics and pesticides. Here, as elsewhere, I found that Darwin's theory had provided no discernible guidance, but was brought in, after the breakthroughs, as an interesting narrative gloss.


In the peer-reviewed literature, the word "evolution" often occurs as a sort of coda to academic papers in experimental biology. Is the term integral or superfluous to the substance of these papers? To find out, I substituted for "evolution" some other word – "Buddhism," "Aztec cosmology," or even "creationism." I found that the substitution never touched the paper's core. This did not surprise me. From my conversations with leading researchers it had became clear that modern experimental biology gains its strength from the availability of new instruments and methodologies, not from an immersion in historical biology.


When I recently suggested this disconnect publicly, I was vigorously challenged. One person recalled my use of Wilkins and charged me with quote mining. The proof, supposedly, was in Wilkins's subsequent paragraph:


"Yet, the marginality of evolutionary biology may be changing. More and more issues in biology, from diverse questions about human nature to the vulnerability of ecosystems, are increasingly seen as reflecting evolutionary events. A spate of popular books on evolution testifies to the development. If we are to fully understand these matters, however, we need to understand the processes of evolution that, ultimately, underlie them."


In reality, however, this passage illustrates my point. The efforts mentioned there are not experimental biology; they are attempts to explain already authenticated phenomena in Darwinian terms, things like human nature. Further, Darwinian explanations for such things are often too supple: Natural selection makes humans self-centered and aggressive – except when it makes them altruistic and peaceable. Or natural selection produces virile men who eagerly spread their seed – except when it prefers men who are faithful protectors and providers. When an explanation is so supple that it can explain any behavior, it is difficult to test it experimentally, much less use it as a catalyst for scientific discovery.



Philip S. Skell  


Darwinian evolution – whatever its other virtues – does not provide a fruitful heuristic in experimental biology. This becomes especially clear when we compare it with a heuristic framework such as the atomic model, which opens up structural chemistry and leads to advances in the synthesis of a multitude of new molecules of practical benefit. None of this demonstrates that Darwinism is false. It does, however, mean that the claim that it is the cornerstone of modern experimental biology will be met with quiet skepticism from a growing number of scientists in fields where theories actually do serve as cornerstones for tangible breakthroughs.


Philip S. Skell tvk@psu.edu is Emeritus Evan Pugh Professor at Pennsylvania State University, and a member of the National Academy of Sciences. His research has included work on reactive intermediates in chemistry, free-atom reactions, and reactions of free carbonium ions.


He can be contacted at tvk@psu.edu.


Return to top



References

1.   Wilkins AS: "Evolutionary processes: a special issue,".
BioEssays 2000, 22:1051-2. [Publisher Full Text]

  
Sanctum



Posts: 88
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,18:28   

<blockquote>Sanctum you slander me! (Not in the way that actually offends me)
</blockquote>
BWE, slander? A little sensitive?
Artist in training mentioned that a week or so ago he was posting at Panda's Thumb and everyone shouted at him.
He left a nice list of homepages of those that he met here, and yours was one of them.
Perhaps you can remember when the two of you were in the same place at the same time. I would like to see what transpired.

  
Sanctum



Posts: 88
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,18:35   

Ok, so blockquotes don't work here.
Sorry all.

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1776
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,23:38   

Quote (Sanctum @ Feb. 11 2006,00:35)
Ok, so blockquotes don't work here.
Sorry all.

The brackets are different here, [ instead of <.
Or use the quote button just above where you type the message.

  
Sanctum



Posts: 88
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,23:45   

Thank you very kindly, Stephen Elliot.
I will give that a try just now.

Quote

Or use the quote button just above where you type the message.


That looks to be serving.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,04:42   

our phishy friend wrote:
Quote
please...please...who do I believe...Phil Skell in Scientist or this Russell person who posts his important sayings on Uncommon Pissant???
Phred should definitely believe Skell, because clearly he's only interested in opinions that confirm his. But in his budding comedy career, Phred has really got a handle on the irony thing: in one sentence, sneering at "credentials" as the last resort of a losing argument, and in the next, reverently touting Skell's membership in the National Academies of Science.

For anyone seriously interested in the consensus of the most highly honored scientists, I would be the first to direct you to the statements of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the National Academies of Science (the whole body; not just one religious-right chemist opining about biology), and any reputable scientific organization you can think of over the random thoughts of one Russell Who. (Who, incidentally, reserves his more serious observations for the peer-reviewed, professional literature).

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,05:55   

Hmmm. I remember one where raging bee was on one side raging and budda (sic) on the other side obstinating but I don't remember the religion comment that got it started.

Stevestory, I didn't exactly understand what artist was saying in the last post there but I did catch this part:
Quote
It's possible that you already have meaning or that you are happy with simply fulfilling your duty to our species' DNA. Good. That's not me.


So in defense, it's a little possible that you took offense where none was intended. However,

Artist, what was that about about Pascal's wager? You must understand that fundementalist religions are the ones behind the push to teach ID in schools.

I think you are saying that people shouldn't be so upset about intelligent design because what better explanation for god do they have? If that is all you are saying when you boil it down, then you should know that it isn't the idea of ID that upsets scientists, it is the attempt to inject bad and unworkable information into public school science curriculum. ID as a philosphical treatise is on pretty much the same footing as any other philosophy and as science it is on the same footing as any other science. THere is a little different burden on science. Hypotheses typically aren't what gets printed in science. You have to do some work first before you get to teach it to public school students. I am not a PhD or any heavy duty expert, but I have discovered that I have the capacity to point out the flaws in Every SIngle scientific argument the IDers come up with. That being the case, I have to conclude that it isn't very scientific.

I left a whole side of me exposed there, let's see how we deal with it. :)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,06:25   

Ah, I see, in the light of day, I did overreact. My only excuse is that I was quite drunk at the time. And quite hungover now.

BTW, I suspect fishyfred is a spoof or exaggeration or something. The extremely bad english he uses rings a little fake.

   
gregonomic



Posts: 44
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,06:27   

Phred = JAD

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,06:45   

Quote
BTW, I suspect fishyfred is a spoof or exaggeration or something
Yeah, I suspect you're right. Whatever his act is, it doesn't really merit any attention. I just thought it was a good moment to remind folks of the unanimity of credible organizations on the ID/evo thing. Because even if these creationist alternate realities are brought up here in jest, it's useful practice to remind oneself of the corresponding reality this side of the looking glass.

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,07:04   

Ahhh, if phishy was JAD, that would explain why the stream of consciousness and rambling looks familiar.  It was bugging me all the way down this thread.

So, Phishy, are you JAD or not?  

And if you are, would you like to try and act like the scientist you once were, or would you like to carry on like the small child you now appear to be?

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,07:27   

New quote from WAD:

Quote
Once again, an ID perspective seems much closer to reality than the Darwinian (Lamarckian?) just-so stories.


Aren't they precious when they pretend their ideas are useful?

Anybody else notice the phrase "an ID perspective" rather than "ID theory"?

   
FishyFred



Posts: 43
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2006,09:20   

I hope it's Davison (cause it sure as heck isn't me). The guy is a nut. He brings back memories of evopeach, but with brand new keywords like "Darwinian mysticism." COMEDY GOLD!

    
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