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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial

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Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,00:21    "Behe refused *several* requests to be interviewed for this show". Gee, why? Buckingham's redneck rant about Jones was cute, too. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Altabin Posts: 308 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,00:32    Quote (Nomad @ Nov. 14 2007,07:18) I whooped with joy when the part came when Behe had all the books and papers on the immune system dumped on his desk. "that's an old lawyer trick, of course he couldn't say he's read them all" says Phillip Johnson. Although perhaps he might have read them before writing a book in which he dismissed them so confidently. --------------

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,00:38    Creationists only get interviewed if they can control the horizontal and the vertical, that is, all the questions and all the answers. I will never understand why Behe agreed to be part of Kitzmiller.  He was pinned from "hello." Maybe he learned a lesson.

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,00:59    It might be pure lawyer theater to dump a ton of material on top of a witness and say it contradicts him. However, the honest thing to do presented with material you haven't read is to say you're quite sure you haven't read all of it, but you would have to review it to definitively state that it doesn't contradict your position. ... but, hey, you know, whatever. Behe was coaxed into shooting himself in the foot by saying he knew more than he did, and then he complained that it wasn't fair to count it against him. -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

snoeman Posts: 109 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,01:02    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 14 2007,00:21) "Behe refused *several* requests to be interviewed for this show". Gee, why? Buckingham's redneck rant about Jones was cute, too. It wasn't "cute"; it was teh awesome.  I was hyperventilating at the spectacle of a holier-than-thou Christian calling Judge Jones a jackass after having: 1. Knowingly pursuing a course of action that was very likely to be illegal (the original push for creationism in Dover) 2. Participating in, or at least condoning, burning of a piece of art that was offensive to you 3. Circumventing the decision of the more reason-based members by appealing for help to the particular place that would be most likely to sympathize 3. Concealing the source of the largess 4. Money shot: Get caught committing perjury on the matter in a federal court When it comes to raw, naked stupidity, Buckingham and Bonsell are The Show. [Edited for marginally better sentence construction.  Even that's debatable.]

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,02:03    Rob Pennock and I drove to York Haven and got to view the NOVA show in the company of all but one of the KvD plaintiffs, Eric Rothschild, Steven Harvey, Richard Katskee, Vic Walczak, Genie Scott, Kevin Padian, Barbara Forrest, Laurie Lebo, and Burt Humburg. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Mister DNA Posts: 466 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,02:49    I just finished watching and I gotta say, I really enjoyed it. I liked the Tree of Life animation and I thought they did a great job of explaining the sciency stuff in layman's terms. I even liked the courtroom reenactments; I love shows like Forensic Files* and City Confidential, so the poorly acted courtroom scenes were bonus, IMO. Does anyone else besides me think that the lawyer from the PA ACLU looked a lot like David Patrick Kelly? (Culture Warriors, come out and plaaaaay-ay!) I can't help but wonder what exactly were the DI's demands that weren't kosher will journalism standards? Did they demand that all of Judge Jones' segments have farty noises in the background? * It's a shame - even with cameras being barred from the proceedings - that Court TV didn't cover Kitzmiller v. Dover; before the network became obsessed with celebrity trials, they used to feature some pretty interesting civil cases. -------------- CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,03:35    Casey Luskin has just posted a longish rebuttal to Judgment Day on his blog.  With like a zillion links to his boring old articles.  But there are some gems that just catch your attention.     Quote During her Kitzmiller testimony, Barbara Forrest testified that Discovery Institute sought to impose "theocracy," and PBS quotes her making statements to a similar effect. This is a blatantly false claim, for Discovery Institute has adamantly opposed any attempts to create "theocracy." Did I miss an epic fight? -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,03:47    Quote The fictionalized scene shows Dr. Minnich saying that he had not performed the experiment. But this scene is highly misleading because Dr. Minnich did testify about his own genetic knockout experiments that showed the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex, and could not evolve in a Darwinian fashion. It's funny how he, or Behe at least, admitted this was a flawed test, but this doesn't make it into the DI blog. It was only a two hour documentary, covering the meaningless tests they DID run instead of the ones they should have run but didn't would have taken up time needlessly. Also, have the Nova folks seen this one? He might be right about one or two points, like which DVD the DI sent to one of those on their side. Since Nova actually has integrity, they might want to revise such errors, if true. -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,06:31    Quote (Doc Bill @ Nov. 13 2007,22:01) Yep, the Disco Inst looked like Major Twits by not responding to PBS. For a group intent on "Cultural Confrontation & Renewal", the Discovery Institute sure seems to have a tendency to run away all skeered and whatnot. Their idea of cultural confrontation is apparently to run all willy-nilly back to their happy place in Seattle, hastily lock the doors and turn out the lights, peak through the curtains, and when they are sure that you are not looking petulantly shake their fist at you. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

fusilier Posts: 252 Joined: Feb. 2003 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,06:57    I know they only had two hours, but.... My Beloved and Darling Wife couldn't understand why I was laughing out loud at the scene with Ken Miller wearing a mousetrap as a tie-clip. fusilier James 2:24. -------------- fusilier James 2:24

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,07:01    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 14 2007,00:21) "Behe refused *several* requests to be interviewed for this show". Not according to FtK! in her per-usual parroting of ENV. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,07:30    In case you missed it—from Panda's Thumb. Quote PvM: Many viewers seem to have been surprised by the transitional fossil between creationist and cdesign proponentsists so here is an original posting by Nick Matzke on Missing link: “cdesign proponentsists” A classic in the annals of Intelligent Design. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

csadams Posts: 124 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,07:59    Watching DI/ID being hoisted by their own trial/deposition testimony: $1,000,000 Listening to a policeman-turned-perjurer call Jones a "jackass" who "went to clown school instead of law school":  $1,000,000 The transitional link - cdesign proponentsists - laid bare on national TV: priceless! -------------- Stand Up For REAL Science!

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,09:00    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Nov. 14 2007,13:01) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 14 2007,00:21) "Behe refused *several* requests to be interviewed for this show". Not according to FtK! in her per-usual parroting of ENV. DISHONESTY MAKING ME MAD ... CAN'T CONTROL RAGE ... MUST LEAVE OFFICE AND GO INTO LAB Louis P.S. ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, lab goodness. -------------- Bye.

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,09:36    ... I don't think they ever said "inexplicably". They said "standard journalistic practices", directly. -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,09:43    well, the picture is by TroutMac so if it's deeply dishonest then he's happy to go along with it. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Assassinator Posts: 479 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,09:44    Can I view that show online? I don't think it's being broadcasted here in Holland and I'm dying to see it. Quote DISHONESTY MAKING ME MAD ... CAN'T CONTROL RAGE ... MUST LEAVE OFFICE AND GO INTO LAB I HATE labs :P The dangerous stuff and all the safety crap make me icky ^^

IanBrown_101 Posts: 927 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,09:53    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Nov. 14 2007,13:01) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 14 2007,00:21) "Behe refused *several* requests to be interviewed for this show". Not according to FtK! in her per-usual parroting of ENV. [CROSSPOST] I just submitted this at Reasonable Kansans: Quote Right, that's it. I'm really fed up now. FtK, is there a conspiracy to suppress ID? Yes or No? You absolutely point blank state there isn't, and anyone who says there is is a little overzealous, or a tad OT or loopy or whatever. Yet you constantly double back with pictures like that, or with statements like "You know that Walt Brown/Behe/Dembski/whoever wouldn't be able to get into a mainstream journal, so why should they submit/why are you having a go at them for not being?" (paraphrasing of course). You constantly swing wildly towards "nudge nudge conspiracy, they have all the ID papers locked up in a basement" and when called upon it claim thats absolutely not what you believe. Which is it? It has to be one or the other and frankly, you're either trying to hide your real feelings from people, and trying to pander to both crowds, or you simply haven't got a clue WHAT you believe and just accept whatever you read at face value unless challenged on it. -------------- I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest. You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK Roddenberry is my God.

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,10:15    Quote (Assassinator @ Nov. 14 2007,10:44) Can I view that show online? I don't think it's being broadcasted here in Holland and I'm dying to see it. Quote DISHONESTY MAKING ME MAD ... CAN'T CONTROL RAGE ... MUST LEAVE OFFICE AND GO INTO LAB I HATE labs :P The dangerous stuff and all the safety crap make me icky ^^ The PBS.org website states that the entire program will be available online on 11/16. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,10:16    PZ's comments re: the DI's complaints about Judgement Day For Assassinator: The programme will appear here on Friday the 16th of November 2007. I'll be watching it! Louis P.S. I don't remember much Dutch I'm afraid, and that I can remember I certainly cannot spell and is certainly useless. "Mein geschlachtsorganen doet pijn" and "stoned als een geernal" seem to be all that memory has dug up. Where in the Netherlands are you? P.P.S. You hate labs? {faints in shock} -------------- Bye.

ERV Posts: 329 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,10:38    It appears that DIs 'problem' with PBS is that PBS wouldnt let them use PBS's footage for propaganda pieces or money. Quote DI agrees that any use of such recordings will be limited to DI's commenting upon or reviewing the NOVA program or other related internal DI uses, and shall not be used for purposes unrelated to commenting upon the specific NOVA program, such as but not limited to, fundraising, lobbying, general advocacy, or in any publicly exhibited media. That was unacceptable to DI.

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,10:47    Being depicted on NOVA was a specific part of the Wedge document. I think they just specified that crap because they knew it wouldn't be accepted and wanted to be able to act indignant about not being included. -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,11:06    Well, I didn't get to see the show at all - I left a message for snorglebarky to tape it, but I got home so late I don't know if he did... Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Nov. 14 2007,06:01)     Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 14 2007,00:21) "Behe refused *several* requests to be interviewed for this show". Not according to FtK! in her per-usual parroting of ENV. Oh, sure. That's convincing. Well, cry me a river. Did FTK also hear that Michael Behe was supposed to come on the Galapagos trip with us, but Eddie Tabash and I stole his underwear and ditched him in the men's bathroom at the Mpls/St. Paul airport? See how easy it is to make up conspiracy theories? -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Assassinator Posts: 479 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,11:39    Thanks Louis :P Btw, pretty randomn sentences you know :D Mijn (Mein is German) geschlachtsorganen doet pijn." = My genitals hurt. And "Stoned als een garnaal" = Stoned like a schrimp. I live in the middle of Holland, in the south-western tip of a province called Gelderland. And yea I hate labs, at least what I have to do in labs with my Bio-Informatics study. What do you have to do in labs then? Can't wait for it to come online, it sure sounds hilarious :P

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,12:44    Here's the dastardly "leaked" PBS memo regarding the Evolution series, which ENV quotemines, folks. (Because they're still bitching about that, too.) Original sources, Ftk. Original sources. Original sources. "We must be respectful of all audiences and view points" *Sigh* Not that it does them any good. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,13:38    I was thinking about cdesignproponentsists and wondered what other transitional forms we may find buried at other strata. Like: - Gintelligentdesignerod - Deteachthecontroversyception - Rescienceligion Others? -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Mister DNA Posts: 466 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,13:45    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Nov. 14 2007,13:38) I was thinking about cdesignproponentsists and wondered what other transitional forms we may find buried at other strata. Like: - Gintelligentdesignerod - Deteachthecontroversyception - Rscienceligion Others? IsBillaac NewtDembskion 6 Th4.5 Billionousand years old TaDave Springerrd -------------- CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,14:38    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 14 2007,09:43) well, the picture is by TroutMac so if it's deeply dishonest then he's happy to go along with it. Ironically, the mousetrap (labeled IC) that Behe is holding in that picture is broken.  LOL. -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2007,15:27    Smathematiciannakeoilsalesman Hjournalistack Idautodidactiot Aposcholarshiplogetics Fresearchiction Ciscientificmovementrcus Closecretlabsset Flipeereditedmflam Ibuncod -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

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