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J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 01 2013,13:16   

Quote (Arctodus23 @ May 31 2013,14:48)
Quote (J-Dog @ May 31 2013,14:33)
 
Quote (Arctodus23 @ May 31 2013,13:59)
Bachmann, creates bill to decapitate homosexuals, castrate abortion doctors, and kill noncreationists.

Totally made up.  Everyone knows that if when Bachman pushes this bill, there would be 30, not 10 Republican co-sponsors within 24 hours.

Hey, the Onion is meant for parody purposes.

Ahem... yes I know!  "30, not 10" is a parody of the parody...

Quote
Hey, the Onion is meant for parody purposes.
 Not if you are a Republican!  There have been a couple of times within the last year when some GOOPER Dufus complained about an Onion article because they thought it was real!

Edited by J-Dog on June 01 2013,13:17

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 01 2013,15:22   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Arctodus23 @ June 01 2013,07:14)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ June 01 2013,08:14)
 
Quote (Febble @ June 01 2013,02:36)
       
Quote (The whole truth @ May 31 2013,21:31)
If she were a man, would the photo have bothered you as much?

Speaking personally, no, it wouldn't.  That's because there is a huge assymmetry in the way society associates beauty with personal quality. Lack of youth or beauty, or can hamper a woman's career in a way that simply does not hamper a man's.  Look at any tv show.  How many elderly ugly men do you see?  How many elderly ugly women?  What do the scars of injury do to a man's charisma, as opposed to a woman's?

Scribbling on a photo seems a pretty shoot-yourself-in-the-foot tactic to me anyway, but yes, I do think it is more offensive to do it to a woman, especially a middle-aged woman, than to do it to a man.

Ah, so 'equality' for the sexes is a bad thing, even though women have loudly argued for it and bluntly demanded it for a long time. I guess I've been wrong for listening to women and for thinking and accepting that equality means equality.

Actually, lots of elderly women have done or are doing just fine in their TV or movie careers, and many other careers, whether they're considered "ugly" by anyone or not, e.g. Judi Dench, Queen Elizabeth, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Maggie Smith, and Betty White.

And when it comes to o'bleary's "career", I doubt that there's anything I could do to harm it more than she does.

By the way, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing anyone publicly denigrate Queen Elizabeth's looks but her son, Prince Charles, has been denigrated a LOT (in print and pictures) about his looks, especially his ears, and he's certainly not the only man who has been very publicly picked on about his looks, in print, altered photos, and exaggerated, deliberately insulting drawings.

"That's because there is a huge assymmetry in the way society associates beauty with personal quality. Lack of youth or beauty, or can hamper a woman's career in a way that simply does not hamper a man's."

Generally speaking, I strongly disagree that a lack of youth or beauty can (or does) hamper a woman's career in a way that simply does not hamper a man's, if the man or woman are in essentially the same position in the same field. Sure, there are instances where society or employers wrongly discriminate against women because of their lack of "beauty" but there are just as many instances where men are discriminated against for the same reason. Being a man isn't as discrimination free and cushy as you seem to think it is.

Case in point: Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey. He's a middle aged politician that some people think will run for president of the USA in 2014, but he is constantly picked on because of his excess weight ("lack of beauty") even though weight has absolutely nothing to do with being a good or bad governor or president. How fat he is is much more prominent in news stories about him than anything he does as a politician.


ETA: changed a few words in the next to the last paragraph.

Are you an MRA? Then, get an education. Picking on a person, that obviously is poor, disabled (mentally/physically), and doesn't have the resources to receive an education, is cowardly, two-faced, childish, and wrong.

What is an "MRA"?

If you really feel that "Picking on a person, that obviously is poor, disabled (mentally/physically), and doesn't have the resources to receive an education, is cowardly, two-faced, childish, and wrong.", then why are you here, and why aren't you jumping on everyone who has 'picked on' Gary Gaulin, yourself included?

And what the fuck gives you the idea that dense o'bleary or other IDiot-creationists are poor, physically disabled, and don't have the resources to receive an education? They're all obviously mentally disabled to at least some extent, so according to you, no one, including you, should be picking on any of them.

All the "education" that IDiot-creationists need, to be much more informed or to knowledgeably discuss/debate evolution, evolutionary theory, and many other aspects of nature and science is freely available to IDiot-creationists and anyone else, on the internet and in libraries. If they wanted to be educated they would be to a much greater extent than they are, and they would listen to people who are educated and who point out their IDiotic bullshit.

By the way, I'm physically disabled.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Cubist



Posts: 558
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 01 2013,16:39   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (The whole truth @ June 01 2013,08:14)
Ah, so 'equality' for the sexes is a bad thing, even though women have loudly argued for it and bluntly demanded it for a long time. I guess I've been wrong for listening to women and for thinking and accepting that equality means equality.

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges." -- Victor Hugo
Perhaps you might benefit from considering the concepts expressed in that sentence, and the degree to which those concepts may be applicable to other things than the divide between rich and poor.

  
timothya



Posts: 280
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2013,00:00   

Anatole France, actually:

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

The concept being that, although equal condemnation under the law was guaranteed to both social classes, it had little application to the wealthy.

Which is indeed the point about "reverse sexism" and "reverse racism".

--------------
"In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." Anatole France

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2013,03:58   

I guess my point is that no matter how equally we try to treat people, as long as inequality exists, the effects of ill-treatment will not be be equally felt.

And there is a fair bit of actual research that suggests that youth and beauty, or lack of it, tends to have more impact on the careers of women than on men.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2013,08:27   

My main point would be that I don't think physical caracatures are particularly funny except possibly done against people in positions of power.

Even then the object of the distorted features should be to highlight the misuse of power rather than just to make them physically unattractive.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2013,11:41   

"Don't photoshop O'Leary's image because she's a woman" ?

Really? Here?? Really?

I'm having a hard time understanding why she's not as viable a target as, say, Potassium Fluoride or GI Joe.  The Three Stooges wouldn't be as funny if they all looked like George Clooney. Or Maria Sharapova.

As Lou FCD said, we got all kinds here. An "I'll be in Scotland before ye" kind of thing.

(shrug) More tea? Gosh it's windy in there...

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2013,21:51   

Quote (The whole truth @ June 01 2013,15:22)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]<br/><br/>
Quote (Arctodus23 @ June 01 2013,07:14)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ June 01 2013,08:14)
   
Quote (Febble @ June 01 2013,02:36)
       
Quote (The whole truth @ May 31 2013,21:31)
If she were a man, would the photo have bothered you as much?

Speaking personally, no, it wouldn't.  That's because there is a huge assymmetry in the way society associates beauty with personal quality. Lack of youth or beauty, or can hamper a woman's career in a way that simply does not hamper a man's.  Look at any tv show.  How many elderly ugly men do you see?  How many elderly ugly women?  What do the scars of injury do to a man's charisma, as opposed to a woman's?

Scribbling on a photo seems a pretty shoot-yourself-in-the-foot tactic to me anyway, but yes, I do think it is more offensive to do it to a woman, especially a middle-aged woman, than to do it to a man.

Ah, so 'equality' for the sexes is a bad thing, even though women have loudly argued for it and bluntly demanded it for a long time. I guess I've been wrong for listening to women and for thinking and accepting that equality means equality.

Actually, lots of elderly women have done or are doing just fine in their TV or movie careers, and many other careers, whether they're considered "ugly" by anyone or not, e.g. Judi Dench, Queen Elizabeth, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Maggie Smith, and Betty White.

And when it comes to o'bleary's "career", I doubt that there's anything I could do to harm it more than she does.

By the way, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing anyone publicly denigrate Queen Elizabeth's looks but her son, Prince Charles, has been denigrated a LOT (in print and pictures) about his looks, especially his ears, and he's certainly not the only man who has been very publicly picked on about his looks, in print, altered photos, and exaggerated, deliberately insulting drawings.

"That's because there is a huge assymmetry in the way society associates beauty with personal quality. Lack of youth or beauty, or can hamper a woman's career in a way that simply does not hamper a man's."

Generally speaking, I strongly disagree that a lack of youth or beauty can (or does) hamper a woman's career in a way that simply does not hamper a man's, if the man or woman are in essentially the same position in the same field. Sure, there are instances where society or employers wrongly discriminate against women because of their lack of "beauty" but there are just as many instances where men are discriminated against for the same reason. Being a man isn't as discrimination free and cushy as you seem to think it is.

Case in point: Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey. He's a middle aged politician that some people think will run for president of the USA in 2014, but he is constantly picked on because of his excess weight ("lack of beauty") even though weight has absolutely nothing to do with being a good or bad governor or president. How fat he is is much more prominent in news stories about him than anything he does as a politician.


ETA: changed a few words in the next to the last paragraph.

Are you an MRA? Then, get an education. Picking on a person, that obviously is poor, disabled (mentally/physically), and doesn't have the resources to receive an education, is cowardly, two-faced, childish, and wrong.

What is an "MRA"?

If you really feel that "Picking on a person, that obviously is poor, disabled (mentally/physically), and doesn't have the resources to receive an education, is cowardly, two-faced, childish, and wrong.", then why are you here, and why aren't you jumping on everyone who has 'picked on' Gary Gaulin, yourself included?

And what the fuck gives you the idea that dense o'bleary or other IDiot-creationists are poor, physically disabled, and don't have the resources to receive an education? They're all obviously mentally disabled to at least some extent, so according to you, no one, including you, should be picking on any of them.

All the "education" that IDiot-creationists need, to be much more informed or to knowledgeably discuss/debate evolution, evolutionary theory, and many other aspects of nature and science is freely available to IDiot-creationists and anyone else, on the internet and in libraries. If they wanted to be educated they would be to a much greater extent than they are, and they would listen to people who are educated and who point out their IDiotic bullshit.

By the way, I'm physically disabled.

All comes into a short summary:

Quote
My name is TWT, and I'm physically disabled. That gives me the right to pick on woman, and mentally ill people. I'm also, an anti-feminist, and think that woman are below men. -- TWT


There you go. I nice short summary, of what he's trying to say.

Oh yeah, I'm autistic.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2013,01:47   

Quote (fnxtr @ June 02 2013,11:41)
"Don't photoshop O'Leary's image because she's a woman" ?

Really? Here?? Really?

I'm having a hard time understanding why she's not as viable a target as, say, Potassium Fluoride or GI Joe.  The Three Stooges wouldn't be as funny if they all looked like George Clooney. Or Maria Sharapova.

As Lou FCD said, we got all kinds here. An "I'll be in Scotland before ye" kind of thing.

(shrug) More tea? Gosh it's windy in there...

I didn't say that.  TWT asked if we'd find it as offensive if it had been a man.

I said I probably wouldn't, and explained why.

I didn't say he shouldn't do it.  Just noted why I found it more offensive.

My main criticism is that it's a counter-productive strategy. But TWT is entitled to disagree.  I'm certainly not trying to stop anyone doing anything.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2013,07:19   

Quote (Arctodus23 @ June 02 2013,22:51)
Quote
My name is TWT, and I'm physically disabled. That gives me the right to pick on woman, and mentally ill people. I'm also, an anti-feminist, and think that woman are below men. -- TWT


There you go. I nice short summary, of what he's trying to say.

Oddly, that's not at all what I read.

Let's leave the blatant mischaracterizations to the UDidiots.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2013,10:04   

Quote (Febble @ June 02 2013,23:47)
Quote (fnxtr @ June 02 2013,11:41)
"Don't photoshop O'Leary's image because she's a woman" ?

Really? Here?? Really?

I'm having a hard time understanding why she's not as viable a target as, say, Potassium Fluoride or GI Joe.  The Three Stooges wouldn't be as funny if they all looked like George Clooney. Or Maria Sharapova.

As Lou FCD said, we got all kinds here. An "I'll be in Scotland before ye" kind of thing.

(shrug) More tea? Gosh it's windy in there...

I didn't say that.  TWT asked if we'd find it as offensive if it had been a man.

I said I probably wouldn't, and explained why.

I didn't say he shouldn't do it.  Just noted why I found it more offensive.

My main criticism is that it's a counter-productive strategy. But TWT is entitled to disagree.  I'm certainly not trying to stop anyone doing anything.

I was attempting to paraphrase, not just you, Febble, but others as well. If I got it wrong, sorry. Certainly not trying to put words in your mouth.

It is the low road. No doubt about it. Some take it, some don't.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,02:34   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky.org

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,05:02   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

There's also the Aeon Journal, which continues what Velikovsky put down.

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,05:40   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,11:02)
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

There's also the Aeon Journal, which continues what Velikovsky put down.

Excellent.

Teach the controverski!

(that was sarcasm...just in case anyone was worried)

Edited by Woodbine on June 05 2013,13:29

  
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,07:59   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

A study that ultimately confirms Velikovskianism, again.

http://aeonjournal.com/article....rn.html

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,08:16   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

Three of your sources that Velikovskianism (whatever the hell that is) is true are from Velikovsky.

Well, I guess that's that then.  Why is Velikovskianism true, because Velikovsky says so.  That's a hard argument to refute.

Now, what the hell are you talking about?  

Oh and BTW: This thread is for science news... please continue this discussion on whatever this is in the bathroom wall thread.

Thanks

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Cubist



Posts: 558
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,10:03   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Velikovsky didn't know the difference between carbohydrates (i.e. 'manna') and hydrocarbons  (i.e. oil/petroleum).
Velikovsky also didn't have a clue how the hell to extract the planet Venus from the bottom of Jupiter's gravity well without reducing said planet to a subinfinite number of tiny fragments traveling in increasingly loose formation.
Game Over, Man.

  
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,10:04   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,08:16)
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

Three of your sources that Velikovskianism (whatever the hell that is) is true are from Velikovsky.

Well, I guess that's that then.  Why is Velikovskianism true, because Velikovsky says so.  That's a hard argument to refute.

Now, what the hell are you talking about?  

Oh and BTW: This thread is for science news... please continue this discussion on whatever this is in the bathroom wall thread.

Thanks

Immanuel Velikovsky is the greatest scientist of all time. He discovered that the OT did happen, but through, "Worlds in Collision".

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,10:18   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,10:04)
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,08:16)
 
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

Three of your sources that Velikovskianism (whatever the hell that is) is true are from Velikovsky.

Well, I guess that's that then.  Why is Velikovskianism true, because Velikovsky says so.  That's a hard argument to refute.

Now, what the hell are you talking about?  

Oh and BTW: This thread is for science news... please continue this discussion on whatever this is in the bathroom wall thread.

Thanks

Immanuel Velikovsky is the greatest scientist of all time. He discovered that the OT did happen, but through, "Worlds in Collision".

Peer review?

eta: Oh, this is the guy who redefined orbital mechanics to support the Old Testament.

Kind of like how Behe redefined science so that ID would be included.

Got it.  Thanks.  I think further discussion should be on the bathroom wall thread.

Edited by OgreMkV on June 05 2013,10:21

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,11:07   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,10:18)
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,10:04)
 
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,08:16)
 
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

Three of your sources that Velikovskianism (whatever the hell that is) is true are from Velikovsky.

Well, I guess that's that then.  Why is Velikovskianism true, because Velikovsky says so.  That's a hard argument to refute.

Now, what the hell are you talking about?  

Oh and BTW: This thread is for science news... please continue this discussion on whatever this is in the bathroom wall thread.

Thanks

Immanuel Velikovsky is the greatest scientist of all time. He discovered that the OT did happen, but through, "Worlds in Collision".

Peer review?

eta: Oh, this is the guy who redefined orbital mechanics to support the Old Testament.

Kind of like how Behe redefined science so that ID would be included.

Got it.  Thanks.  I think further discussion should be on the bathroom wall thread.

Velikovsky was a great scientist. Obama actually appointed him to be the scientific adviser.

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,11:21   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,11:07)
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,10:18)
 
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,10:04)
   
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,08:16)
   
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

Three of your sources that Velikovskianism (whatever the hell that is) is true are from Velikovsky.

Well, I guess that's that then.  Why is Velikovskianism true, because Velikovsky says so.  That's a hard argument to refute.

Now, what the hell are you talking about?  

Oh and BTW: This thread is for science news... please continue this discussion on whatever this is in the bathroom wall thread.

Thanks

Immanuel Velikovsky is the greatest scientist of all time. He discovered that the OT did happen, but through, "Worlds in Collision".

Peer review?

eta: Oh, this is the guy who redefined orbital mechanics to support the Old Testament.

Kind of like how Behe redefined science so that ID would be included.

Got it.  Thanks.  I think further discussion should be on the bathroom wall thread.

Velikovsky was a great scientist. Obama actually appointed him to be the scientific adviser.

He very well may be a 'great scientist'.

That doesn't mean he is correct about everything he says.

Again, I'm asking you to move this discussion to the BW.

Thanks

eta: Just out of curiosity, how did Obama appoint him to be a scientific advisor since he died in 1979?

Edited by OgreMkV on June 05 2013,11:23

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,12:58   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Consider your chains yanked, kiddies.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,13:52   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

He secretly survived.

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,13:56   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,13:52)
He secretly survived.

Put some effort in at least.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2013,20:13   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (Richardthughes @ June 05 2013,13:56)
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,13:52)
He secretly survived.

Put some effort in at least.

THIS ISSUE RECENTLY APPEARED IN THE NEW ISSUE OF "Aeon Journal". THIS
POST WILL FEATURE AN EXCERPT, WHICH PRAISES VELIKOVSKY'S WORK.

I have read less than a handful of books that can be said to have
influenced my way of thinking. Immanuel Velikovsky's Worlds in
Collision has not only been one of them, in the end it totally changed
my life.
In this work Velikovsky proposed that, in the distant past, but still
within man's memory, the planet Jupiter ejected from itself a smaller
but sizeable body that careened across the solar system in the form of
a giant comet. Coming into close contact with Earth, but avoiding an
actual collision, this cometary body caused a series of catastrophic
events which mankind remembered and passed on to his descendants in an
oral and written tradition that eventually evolved into the well-known
mythologies of the various nations. Thus the gods and goddesses of
antiquity seem to have really been the deified planets of the solar
system. Their divine actions were merely reflections of errant orbits
in a cosmic drama which man witnessed and immortalized in his
religious rites, his liturgies and, finally, his sacred texts.

THIS IS REAL SCIENCE. THE THUGS AT sci.bio.paleontology, sci.skeptic,
alt.atheism, and talk.origins WILL HAVE TO SEE THIS.
===========================
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul
with evil." - Socrates
"To the divine providence it has seemed good to prepare in the world
to come for the righteous good things, which the unrighteous shall
not
enjoy; and for the wicked evil things, by which the good shall not be
tormented. But as for the good things of this life, and its ills, God
has willed that these should be common to both; that we might not too
eagerly covet the things which wicked men are seen equally to enjoy,
nor shrink with an unseemly fear from the ills which even good men
often suffer.
There is, too, a very great difference in the purpose served both by
those events which we call adverse and those called prosperous. For
the good man is neither uplifted with the good things of time, nor
broken by its ills; but the wicked man, because he is corrupted by
this world’s happiness, feels himself punished by its unhappiness." -
St. Augustine of Hippo
"I have loved righteousness and hated iniquity, and therefore I die
in
exile." - St. Gregory VII, His Last Words.
===========================
THRINAXODON UPDATED HIS PROFILE PICTURE.
http://thrinaxodon.wordpress.com/2013....ile-...
===================================
THRINAXODON IS NOW ON TWITTER.

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2013,08:08   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,11:21)
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,11:07)
 
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,10:18)
 
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,10:04)
   
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 05 2013,08:16)
     
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 05 2013,02:34)
Scientific resources, that show Velikovskianism is true:

1. http://www.varchive.org/....ive....ive.org

2. http://velikovsky.de/....vsk....vsky.de

3. http://www.velikovsky.info/....ky.....ky.info

4. http://www.velikovsky.org/....sky....sky.org

Three of your sources that Velikovskianism (whatever the hell that is) is true are from Velikovsky.

Well, I guess that's that then.  Why is Velikovskianism true, because Velikovsky says so.  That's a hard argument to refute.

Now, what the hell are you talking about?  

Oh and BTW: This thread is for science news... please continue this discussion on whatever this is in the bathroom wall thread.

Thanks

Immanuel Velikovsky is the greatest scientist of all time. He discovered that the OT did happen, but through, "Worlds in Collision".

Peer review?

eta: Oh, this is the guy who redefined orbital mechanics to support the Old Testament.

Kind of like how Behe redefined science so that ID would be included.

Got it.  Thanks.  I think further discussion should be on the bathroom wall thread.

Velikovsky was a great scientist. Obama actually appointed him to be the scientific adviser.

He very well may be a 'great scientist'.

That doesn't mean he is correct about everything he says.

Again, I'm asking you to move this discussion to the BW.

Thanks

eta: Just out of curiosity, how did Obama appoint him to be a scientific advisor since he died in 1979?

Have you ever read, "Aeon Journal?"

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2013,09:03   

No.  I haven't.  There are a million journals that actually publish science with a proper peer-review.  I don't have time for all of them, much less journals that don't have a peer-review process, that is edited by one guy with (seemingly) no credentials in mythology or physics.

Do you have specific evidence that shows how all of modern physics is wrong?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2013,09:43   

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 06 2013,09:03)
No.  I haven't.  There are a million journals that actually publish science with a proper peer-review.  I don't have time for all of them, much less journals that don't have a peer-review process, that is edited by one guy with (seemingly) no credentials in mythology or physics.

Do you have specific evidence that shows how all of modern physics is wrong?

The evidence is in the journal.

--------------
Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2013,09:57   

Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 06 2013,09:43)
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 06 2013,09:03)
No.  I haven't.  There are a million journals that actually publish science with a proper peer-review.  I don't have time for all of them, much less journals that don't have a peer-review process, that is edited by one guy with (seemingly) no credentials in mythology or physics.

Do you have specific evidence that shows how all of modern physics is wrong?

The evidence is in the journal.

So you can't point or copy/paste any evidence that shows that orbital mechanics is wrong.

Fair enough.  Thanks for playing.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Thrinaxodon



Posts: 65
Joined: June 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2013,10:43   

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 06 2013,09:57)
Quote (Thrinaxodon @ June 06 2013,09:43)
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 06 2013,09:03)
No.  I haven't.  There are a million journals that actually publish science with a proper peer-review.  I don't have time for all of them, much less journals that don't have a peer-review process, that is edited by one guy with (seemingly) no credentials in mythology or physics.

Do you have specific evidence that shows how all of modern physics is wrong?

The evidence is in the journal.

So you can't point or copy/paste any evidence that shows that orbital mechanics is wrong.

Fair enough.  Thanks for playing.

Here's the evidence:

COSMOS WITHOUT GRAVITATION:  

THE FUNDAMENTAL theory of this paper is: Gravitation is an electromagnetic phenomenon. There is no primary motion inherent in planets and satellites. Electric attraction, repulsion, and electromagnetic circumduction(1)govern their movements. The moon does not “fall,” attracted to the earth from an assumed inertial motion along a straight line, nor is the phenomenon of objects falling in the terrestrial atmosphere comparable with the “falling effect” in the movement of the moon, a conjecture which is the basic element of the Newtonian theory of gravitation.

Aside from several important facts discovered in the study of cosmic upheavals, which are not illuminated here and only enumerated at the end of this paper, and which are discussed at length in a work of research entitled Worlds In Collisionnow being prepared for publication, the following facts are incompatible with the theory of gravitation:




   
   The ingredients of the air—oxygen, nitrogen, argon and other gases—though not in a compound but in a mixture, are found in equal proportions at various levels of the atmosphere despite great differences in specific weights. The explanation accepted in science is this: “Swift winds keep the gases thoroughly mixed, so that except for water-vapor the composition of the atmosphere is the same throughout the troposphere to a high degree of approximation.” (2) This explanation cannot be true. If it were true, then the moment the wind subsides, the nitrogen should stream upward, and the oxygen should drop, preceded by the argon. If winds are caused by a difference in weight between warm and cold air, the difference in weight between heavy gases high in the atmosphere and light gases at the lower levels should create storms, which would subside only after they had carried each gas to its natural place in accordance with its gravity or specific weight. But nothing of the kind happens.

   

   When some aviators expressed the belief that “pockets of noxious gas” are in the air, the scientists replied:

   “There are no ‘pockets of noxious gas.’ No single gas, and no other likely mixture of gases, has, at ordinary temperatures and pressures, the same density as atmospheric air. Therefore, a pocket of foreign gas in that atmosphere would almost certainly either bob up like a balloon, or sink like a stone in water.” (3)

   Why, then, do not the atmospheric gases separate and stay apart in accordance with the specific gravities?

   

   
   Ozone, though heavier than oxygen, is absent in the lower layers of the atmosphere, is present in the upper layers, and is not subject to the “mixing effect of the wind.” The presence of ozone high in the atmosphere suggests that oxygen must be still higher: “As oxygen is less dense than ozone, it will tend to rise to even greater heights.” (4) Nowhere is it asked why ozone does not descend of its own weight or at least why it is not mixed by the wind with other gases.

   

   

   
   Water, though eight hundred times heavier than air, is held in droplets, by the millions of tons, miles above the ground. Clouds and mist are composed of droplets which defy gravitation.

   

   

   
   Even if perfect elasticity is a quality of the molecules of all gases, the motion of the molecules, if effected by a mechanical cause, must subside because of the gravitational attraction between the particles and also because of the gravitational pull of the earth. There should also be a loss of momentum as the result of the transformation of a part of the energy of motion into vibration of molecules hit in the collisions.(5) But since the molecules of a gas at a constant temperature (or in a perfect insulator) do not stop moving, it is obvious that a force generated in collisions drives them. The molecules of gases try to escape one another. Repulsion between the particles of gases and vapors counteracts the attraction.

   

   

   
   The weight of the atmosphere is constantly changing as the changing barometric pressure indicates. Low pressure areas are not necessarily encircled by high pressure belts. The semidiurnal changes in barometric pressure are not explainable by the mechanistic principles of gravitation and the heat effect of solar radiation. The cause of these variations is unknown.

   “It has been known now for two and a half centuries, that there are more or less daily variations in the height of the barometer, culminating in two maxima and two minima during the course of 24 hours. Since Dr. Beal’s discovery (1664-65), the same observation has been made and puzzled over at every station at which pressure records were kept and studied, but without success in finding for it the complete physical explanation. In speaking of the diurnal and semidiurnal variations of the barometer, Lord Rayleigh says: ‘The relative magnitude of the latter [semidiurnal variations], as observed at most parts of the earth’s surface, is still a mystery, all the attempted explanations being illusory.’” (6)

   One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m. The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations. If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.

   The lowest pressure is near the equator, in the belt of the doldrums. Yet the troposphere is highest at the equator, being on the average about 18 km. high there; it is lower in the moderate latitudes, and only 6 km. high above the ground at the poles.

   

   
   Laplace, pondering the shape of the atmospheric envelope of the earth, came to the conclusion that the atmosphere, which rotates with the same angular velocity as the earth and which behaves like a fluid, must be lenticular in form; its polar and equatorial axes must be about 35,000 and 52,000 miles respectively; at the equator the atmosphere must extend more than 21,000 miles above the ground. At these distances from the ground the gravitational force of the earth is just equal to the centrifugal force due to rotation.

   

   From the measurement of the pressure of the earth’s atmosphere, measurement based also on the principles of gravitation, it has been deduced that the atmosphere is but 17 (not 21,000) miles high.

   Observations of the flight of meteorites and of the polar auroras lead to the conjecture that the atmosphere reaches to a height of 130 miles (meteorites) or over 400 miles (polar auroras). Radio measurements yield about 200 miles for the upper layer recognizable through this method of investigation.

   Two computations, both based on the principle of gravitation, differ in the proportion of 17 and 21,000. Direct observations do not justify either of the computed figures.

   

   
   Cyclones, characterized by low pressure and by winds blowing toward their centers, move counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere and clockwise in the southern hemisphere. This movement of air currents in cyclonic vortices is generally explained as the effect of the earth’s rotation.

   

   Anticyclones, characterized by high pressure and by winds blowing from their centers move clockwise in the northern hemisphere and counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere. The movement of anticyclones has not been explained and is regarded as enigmatic.

   Cyclones and anticyclones are considered a problem of fluidal motion with highest or lowest pressure in the center. As the movement of anticyclones cannot be explained by the mechanistic principles of gravitation and rotation, it must be concluded that the rotation of cyclones is also unexplained.

   

   
   The area of land in the northern hemisphere of the earth is to the area of land in the southern hemisphere as three is to one. The mean weight of the land is two and three-quarter times heavier than that of water; assuming the depth of the seas in both hemispheres to be equal, the northern hemisphere up to sea level is heavier than the southern hemisphere, if judged by sea and land distribution; the earth masses above sea level are additional heavy loads. But this unequal distribution of masses does not affect the position of the earth, as it does not place the northern hemisphere with its face to the sun. A “dead force” like gravitation could not keep the unequally loaded earth in equilibrium. Also, the seasonal distribution of ice and snow, shifting in a distillation process from one hemisphere to the other, should interfere with the equilibrium of the earth, but fails to do so.

   

   

   
   Mountainous masses do not exert the gravitational pull expected by the theory of gravitation. The influence of the largest mass on the earth, the Himalaya, was carefully investigated with plumb line on the Indian side. The plumb line is not deflected as calculated in advance.(7) “The attraction of the mountain-ground thus computed on the theory of gravitation, is considerably greater than is necessary to explain the anomalies observed. This singular conclusion, I confess, at first surprised me very much.” (G. B. Airy.(8)) Out of this embarrassment grew the idea of isostasy. This hypothesis explains the lack of gravitational pull by the mountains in the following way. The interior of the globe is supposed to be fluid, and the crust is supposed to float on it. The inner fluid or magma is heavier or denser, the crust is lighter. Where there is a mountainous elevation, there must also be a protuberance beneath the mountains, this immersed protuberance being of lesser mass than the magma of equal volume. The way seismic waves travel, and computations of the elasticity of the interior of the earth, force the conclusion that the earth must be as rigid as steel; but if the earth is solid for only 2000 miles from the surface, the crust must be more rigid than steel. These conclusions are not reconcilable with the principle of isostasy, which presupposes a fluid magma less than 60 miles below the surface of the earth. There remains “a contradiction between isostasy and geophysical data.” (9)

   

   

   
   Over the oceans, the gravitational pull is greater than over the continents, though according to the theory of gravitation the reverse should be true; the hypothesis of isostasy also is unable to explain this phenomenon.(10)The gravitational pull drops at the coast line of the continents. Furthermore, the distribution of gravitation in the sea often has the peculiarity of being stronger where the water is deeper. “In the whole Gulf and Caribbean region the generalization seems to hold that the deeper the water, the more strongly positive the anomalies.” (11)

   

   As far as observations could establish, the sea tides do not influence the plumb line, which is contrary to what is expected. Observations on reservoirs of water, where the mass of water could be increased and decreased, gave none of the results anticipated on the basis of the theory of gravitation.(12)

   

   
   The atmospheric pressure of the sun, instead of being 27.47 times greater than the atmospheric pressure of the earth (as expected because of the gravitational pull of the large solar mass), is much smaller: the pressure there varies according to the layers of the atmosphere from one-tenth to one-thousandth of the barometric pressure on the earth;(13) at the base of the reversing layer the pressure is 0.005 of the atmospheric pressure at sea level on the earth;(14) in the sunspots, the pressure drops to one ten-thousandth of the pressure on the earth.

   

   The pressure of light is sometimes referred to as to explain the low atmospheric pressure on the sun. At the surface of the sun, the pressure of light must be 2.75 milligrams per square centimeter; a cubic centimeter of one gram weight at the surface of the earth would weigh 27.47 grams at the surface of the sun. Thus the attraction by the solar mass is 10,000 times greater than the repulsion of the solar light. Recourse is taken to the supposition that if the pull and the pressure are calculated for very small masses, the pressure exceeds the pull, one acting in proportion to the surface, the other in proportion to the volume.(15) But if this is so, why is the lowest pressure of the solar atmosphere observed over the sunspots where the light pressure is least?

   

   
   Because of its swift rotation, the gaseous sun should have the latitudinal axis greater than the longitudinal, but it does not have it. The sun is one million times larger than the earth, and its day is but twenty-six times longer than the terrestrial day; the swiftness of its rotation at its equator is over 125 km. per minute; at the poles, the velocity approaches zero. Yet the solar disk is not oval but round: the majority of observers even find a small excess in the longitudinal axis of the sun.(16) The planets act in the same manner as the rotation of the sun, imposing a latitudinal pull on the luminary.

   

   Gravitation that acts in all directions equally leaves unexplained the spherical shape of the sun. As we saw in the preceding section, the gases of the solar atmosphere are not under a strong pressure, but under a very weak one. Therefore, the computation, according to which the ellipsoidity of the sun, that is lacking, should be slight, is not correct either. Since the gases are under a very low gravitational pressure, the centrifugal force of rotation must have formed quite a flat sun.

   Near the polar regions of the sun, streamers of the corona are observed, which prolong still more the axial length of the sun.

   

   
   If planets and satellites were once molten masses, as cosmological theories assume, they would not have been able to obtain a spherical form, especially those which do not rotate, as Mercury or the moon (with respect to its primary).

   

   

   
   The Harmonic Law of Kepler views the movements of the planets as depending only on their distance from the sun. According to Newton, the masses of the sun and the planets must also enter the formulas. The Newtonian orbits differ from the Keplerian, found empirically. The Newtonian formula has a sum of masses (instead of a product of masses), and in view of the largeness of the sun, the Newtonian orbits are supposed to not deviate substantially from the Keplerian.(17)

   

   

   
   Perturbations of planets due to their reciprocal action are pronounced in repulsion as well as attraction. A perturbation displacing a planet or a satellite by a few seconds of arc must direct it from its orbit. It is assumed that the orbits of all planets and satellites did not change because of perturbations. A regulating force emanating from the primary appears to act. In the gravitational system there is no place left for such regulating forces.

   

   

   
   The perturbating activity appears unstable in the major planets, Jupiter and Saturn: Between the minimum of the year 1898-99 and the maximum of the 1916-17 there was found an 18 percent difference.(18) As these planets did not increase in mass in the meantime, this change is not understandable from the point of view of the theory of gravitation, which includes the principle of the immutable gravitational constant.

   

   

   
   The pressure of light emanating from the sun should slowly change the orbits of the satellites, pushing them more than the primaries, and acting constantly, this pressure should have the effect of acceleration: the pressure of light per unit of mass is greater in relation to the satellites than in relation to their primaries. But this change fails to materialize; a regulating force seems to overcome this unequal light pressure on primaries and secondaries.

   

   

   
   The sun moves in space at a velocity of about twenty kilometers a second (in relation to the nearby stars). This motion, according to Lodge, must change the eccentricities of some of the planetary orbits to an extent which far exceeds the observed values.(19)

   

   

   
   The motion of the perihelia of Mercury and Mars and of the nodes of Venus differ from what is computed with the help of the Newtonian law of gravitation. Einstein showed how his theory can account for the anomaly of Mercury; however, the smaller irregularities in the movements of Venus and Mars cannot be accounted for by Einstein’s formulas.

   

   

   
   Unaccounted for fluctuations in the lunar mean motion were calculated from the records of lunar eclipses of many centuries and from modern observations. These fluctuations were studied by S. Newcomb, who wrote: “I regard these fluctuations as the most enigmatic phenomenon presented by the celestial motions, being so difficult to account for by the action of any known causes, that we cannot but suspect them to arise from some action in nature hitherto unknown.” (20) They are not explainable by the forces of gravitation which emanate from the sun and the planets.

   

   

   
   It was found that “the strength of radio reception was nearly doubled with the passing of the moon from overhead to underneath the observer … It does not appear reasonable that the relatively small gravitational tide in the earth’s atmosphere, which changes the barometric pressure by less than half of one percent, could account for a sufficient change in altitude of the ionized layer to produce such marked changes in the intensity of reception.” (21)

   

   The lifting of the ionosphere generally results in better radio reception, and the small tidal action by the moon when overhead should improve reception a little, not impair it; in any event, the moon cannot have a marked effect on the ionosphere without being itself a charged body. But if the moon is charged, it cannot behave in its motion as though the gravitational force alone acts between it and the earth.

   

   
   The tails of the comets do not obey the principle of gravitation and are repelled by the sun. “There is beyond question some profound secret and mystery of nature concerned in the phenomenon of their tails” ; enormous sweep which it (the tail) makes round the sun in perihelion, in the manner of a straight and rigid rod, is in defiance of the law of gravitation, nay, even of the recorded laws of motion” (J. Herschel).(22)

   “What has puzzled astronomers since the time of Newton, is the fact that while all other bodies in the sidereal universe, as far as we are aware, obey the law of gravitation, comets’ tails are clearly subject to some strong repulsive force, which drives the matter composing them away from the sun with enormously high velocities” (W.H. Pickering)

   

   
   The change in the angular velocity of comets (especially of the comet Encke) is not in accord with the theoretical computations based on the theory of gravitation.(23)

   

   

   
   Meteors, after entering the terrestrial atmosphere at about 200 km. above the ground, are violently displaced toward the east. These displacements of the meteors are usually ascribed to winds blowing in the upper atmosphere.(24) The atmospheric pressure at a height of 45 km. is supposed to be but “a small fraction of one millimeter of mercury.” (25) On the other hand, the velocity with which the meteors approach the earth is between 15 and 75 km. per second, on the average about 40 km. per second or over 140,000 km. per hour. If winds of 150 km. per hour velocity were permanently blowing at the height where the meteors become visible, it would not be possible for such winds of rarefied atmosphere to visibly deflect stones falling at the rate of 140,000 km. per hour.

   

   Approaching the earth, the meteorites suddenly slow down and turn aside, and some are even repelled into space. “A few meteors give the appearance of penetrating into our atmosphere and then leaving it, ricocheting as it were.” (26)

   

   
   The earth is a huge magnet; it has electric currents in the ground and is enveloped by a number of layers of electrified ionosphere. The sun possesses an electric charge and magnetic poles; also the sunspots are found to be powerful magnets. The ionosphere is permanently charged by particles arriving from the sun; sunspots actively influence terrestrial magnetism, ground currents, the ionosphere’s charge, and auroras. As the principle of gravitation leaves no room for the participation of other forces in the ordinary movements of the celestial mechanism, these obvious and permanent influences of the electromagnetic state of the sun on the magnetic field of the earth, the ionosphere, the auroras, and the earth currents are not allowed to have more than zero effect on the astronomical position of the earth, and this for the sake of maintaining the integrity of the gravitational principle.

   

   Sun and moon, comets, planets, satellites, and meteorites – all the heavenly host – air and water, mountain massifs and sea tides, each and all of them(27) disobey the “law of laws” which is supposed to know no exception.

* * *



To the empirical evidences of the fallacy of the law of gravitation four well known difficulties of the gravitational theory can be added:




   
   Gravitation acts in no time. Laplace calculated that, in order to keep the solar system together, the gravitational pull must propagate with a velocity at least fifty million times greater than the velocity of light. A physical agent requires time to cover distance. Gravitation defies time.

   

   

   
   Matter acts where it is not, or in abstentia, through no physical agent. This is a defiance of space. Newton was aware of this difficulty when he wrote in a letter to Bentley: “That gravity should be innate, inherent, and essential to matter, so that one body can act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man, who has in philosophical matters a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it.” Leibnitz opposed the theory of gravitation for this very reason.

   

   

   
   Gravitational force is unchangeable by any and all agents or by any medium through which it passes, always propagating as the inverse square of the distances. “Gravitation is entirely independent of everything that influences other natural phenomena” (De Sitter(28)). This is a defiance of the principles governing other energies.

   

   

   
   Every particle in the universe must be under a tendency to be pulled apart because of the infinite mass in the universe: it is pulled to all sides by all the matter in space.

   

A few additional remarks about the motion of bodies in the universe which bear upon the theory of gravitation are added here:




   
   The notion of the tangential escape or inertia of the primary motion of the planets and satellites, being adopted by all cosmogonical theories of post-Newtonian days, led all of them into insurmountable difficulties. The retrograde motion of some satellites is one of these difficulties.

   

   

   
   The principle of gravitation demands an ultimate balling of all matter in the cosmos. This is not in harmony with spectral observations, which suggest even an “expanding universe”

   

   

   
   “An atom differs from the solar system by the fact that it is not gravitation that makes the electrons go round the nucleus, but electricity.” (B. Russell). Different principles are supposed to govern the motion of the planetary bodies in the macrocosm and microcosm.(29)

   

* * *

Newton explained the principle underlying the motion of the planets and the satellites by the example of a stone thrown horizontally from a mountain with such force that gravitation bends its flight so that it revolves around the earth, coming back to exactly the same place, once again to repeat the course of its flight. But he admits “It is not to be conceived that mere mechanical causes could give birth to so many regular motions,” and invokes an act of Providence in providing each satellite with a tangential push of a strength which, together with the pull of the primary, creates an orbit. (General Scholium to Book III of thePrincipia) The inertia of the tangential (instantaneous) push has not exhausted itself in all the eons despite the tidal friction between a satellite and its primary, or the sun pulling the satellite away from the primary, or the resistance of matter (meteorites) in space, though all these forces act permanently and therefore with acceleration.

* * *

Newton’s gravitational theory is regarded as proved by the action of the tides. But studying the tides, Newton came to the conclusion that the moon has a mass equal to one fortieth of the earth. Modern calculations, based on the theory of gravitation (but not on the action of the tides), ascribe to the moon a mass equal to 1/81 of the earth’s mass.(30)

The greatest triumph of the theory of gravitation was the discovery of the planet Neptune, the position of which was calculated simultaneously by Adams and Leverrier from the perturbations experienced by Uranus. But in the controversy which ensued concerning the priority in announcing the existence of Neptune, it was stressed that neither of the two scholars was the real discoverer, as both of them calculated very erroneously the distance of Neptune from the orbit of Uranus.(31) Yet, even if the computations were correct, there would be no proof that gravitation and not another energy acts between Uranus and Neptune. The gravitational pull decreases as the square of the distance. Electricity and magnetism act in the same way. Newton was mistaken when he ascribed to magnetism a decrease that follows the cube of the distance.(32)

Building his System of the World, Newton put before his readers “Rules of Reasoning in Philosophy.” The First Rule is: “We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances.” Rule II is : “Therefore, to the same natural effects we must, as far as possible, assign the same causes.”

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Velikovsky is right.

Humans originated in the Devonian.

talk.origins is a place for people to p*ss on others.

  
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