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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 4

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fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2012,19:22    Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 17 2012,08:55) fnxtr wanted me to portrait KF as harlequin. He didn't specify the gender. You rock, sister. edit formatalization x 2 -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2012,19:50    KF reveals who the designer is: Quote The kind of nasty, ill-informed talking points that too often poison UD threads and other fora, are holding back some real serious futurist discussions inspired by reverse engineering nature’s technologies. Ironically, THOSE are the real politics-playing science stoppers. http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-428073 -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2012,21:15    Quote (midwifetoad @ July 17 2012,17:50) KF reveals who the designer is:     Quote The kind of nasty, ill-informed talking points that too often poison UD threads and other fora, are holding back some real serious futurist discussions inspired by reverse engineering nature’s technologies. Ironically, THOSE are the real politics-playing science stoppers. http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-428073 Oh, so that's what's holding back serious futurist discussions... There's no way you could just ignore what you don't want to read and just have the discussion anyway, is there. Wimp. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,05:06    I think it should be pointed out that Mr. Leathers is not a leather belt. It's worse than that. gordo referred to Mr. Leathers as "good Guyana cane". Guyana is a producer of sugar cane, and lashes with a whip or cat o' nine tails (made of very sharp and tough sugar cane leaves) on bare skin was/is a traditional form of punishment in some countries, and in Guyana corporal punishment is legal. There's something else though. gordo, as you will see a few paragraphs below, uses the phrase "six of the best...". Well, look what I found in Webster's online dictionary: "Caning is a physical punishment (see that article for generalities and alternatives) consisting of a number of hits (known as "strokes" or "cuts") with a wooden cane, generally applied to the bare or clad buttocks (see spanking), shoulders, hand(s) (palm, rarely knuckles) or the soles of the feet (foot whipping). The size and flexibility of the cane itself and the number and mode of application of the strokes (usually more numerous and faster when wielding a light, flexible cane) vary significantly." "The frequency and severity of canings in educational settings have varied greatly, often being determined by the written rules or unwritten traditions of the school. The western educational use of the cane dates principally to the late nineteenth century, in order to replace birching - which is only effective if applied to the bare flesh - with a form of punishment more suitable to contemporary sensibilities. For example, in some schools corporal punishment was administered solely by the headmaster, but in many English and Commonwealth private schools authority to punish was also given to other staff and even certain senior students (often called prefects). A typical punishment in an English primary school in the late nineteenth or early twentieth century consisted of one or two strokes on the hand. In many secondary schools in England and Wales it was in use, mainly for boys and only infrequent for girls, until the early 1980s, while elsewhere other implements prevailed, such as the Scottish tawse. In this setting it was more often administered to the clothed buttocks, typically with the student bent over a desk or chair, and usually with a maximum of six "strokes" (known as "six of the best"). Such a caning sometimes left a student with weals and bruises, making it painful to sit down for days after the caning."  (my emphasis) Awhile back on UD gordo accused Elizabeth Liddle of "derailing a thread" and for that horrible crime (yeah, as if gordo never derails threads) he also accused her of having no "broughtupcy" (manners) and said: "Can you understand how I feel like the parent having to correct a child who decides to act up in front of guests? [That noise you hear is foot tapping and old Mr Leathers being limbered up to be applied to the seat of learning with vigour. Six of the best is about right . . . ]"  (my emphasis) So, Mr. Leathers is either a whip or cat o' nine tails made from sugar cane leaves or it's a wooden cane. And yeah, that gordon elliott mullings who wants (threatened) to flog or beat EL with Mr. Leathers for allegedly "derailing a thread" on UD is the same gordon elliott mullings who accuses me of disrespecting a "decent woman" (o'leary the indecent catholic monster) and who repeatedly (and deceitfully) accuses me of threatening his family "mafioso-style". -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,05:59    Quote (olegt @ July 17 2012,14:11) This goes well beyond the silly shenanigans at UD and may deserve a separate thread. In the UD thread Steve Fuller in ID Philosophy Gregory (whoever you are) points out that Fuller's call for ID to embrace theology has been enthusiastically seconded by none other than Stephen Meyer, director of Discovery's CSC. Here is a quote (emphasis in the original):     Quote Let me just clip a few portions of text from your blog on the Cambridge event related to this thread, including the reaction of Dr. Stephen C. Meyer, Director of the Centre for Science and Culture of the Discovery Institute, ID co-founder and leader to the presentation by Dr. Steve Fuller, Auguste Comte Chair in Social Epistemology at Warwick University. “the scientific enterprise began on the Christian (or Abrahamic-faith) assumption that, because mankind is created in God’s image, we are equipped to “think his thoughts after him” – not only by apprehending the rationality of nature, but by recognising the self-same approach to design that humans exercise, in their limited fashion. We detect design, then, because there is a genuine continuity between the Creator’s design and our own. … And that’s why the assertion that we are created in God’s image is central to ID, re-affirming as it does a foundational principle that once motivated science but has been forgotten.” “[Stephen C. Meyer] was…tremedously excited at the prospect [suggested by Fuller] of bringing theology, in these terms, into ID’s research agenda.” There is more good stuff in that thread, including a link to Jon Garvey's blog with more details about the Fuller–Meyer encounter and a priceless reaction from Timaeus who is clearly shocked---shocked!--to find gambling going on in this establishment. And here is one more tidbit from Jon Garvey's blog:     Quote When I spoke to Steve Fuller yesterday afternoon I raised my own biggest problem with such a change in direction - that it gives opponents ammunition for their claim that ID is really only creationism dressed up as science. He pointed out that since that claim is made anyway, there’s not much to be lost --- and that it would be a price worth paying in the big game. It would appear that Stephen Meyer, at least, agrees with that assessement. Linked to a wrong thread on Garvey's blog. Here is the correct link: Why Steve Fuller is on the money -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,08:56    Quote (olegt @ July 18 2012,05:59) Quote (olegt @ July 17 2012,14:11) This goes well beyond the silly shenanigans at UD and may deserve a separate thread. In the UD thread Steve Fuller in ID Philosophy Gregory (whoever you are) points out that Fuller's call for ID to embrace theology has been enthusiastically seconded by none other than Stephen Meyer, director of Discovery's CSC. Here is a quote (emphasis in the original):     Quote Let me just clip a few portions of text from your blog on the Cambridge event related to this thread, including the reaction of Dr. Stephen C. Meyer, Director of the Centre for Science and Culture of the Discovery Institute, ID co-founder and leader to the presentation by Dr. Steve Fuller, Auguste Comte Chair in Social Epistemology at Warwick University. “the scientific enterprise began on the Christian (or Abrahamic-faith) assumption that, because mankind is created in God’s image, we are equipped to “think his thoughts after him” – not only by apprehending the rationality of nature, but by recognising the self-same approach to design that humans exercise, in their limited fashion. We detect design, then, because there is a genuine continuity between the Creator’s design and our own. … And that’s why the assertion that we are created in God’s image is central to ID, re-affirming as it does a foundational principle that once motivated science but has been forgotten.” “[Stephen C. Meyer] was…tremedously excited at the prospect [suggested by Fuller] of bringing theology, in these terms, into ID’s research agenda.” There is more good stuff in that thread, including a link to Jon Garvey's blog with more details about the Fuller–Meyer encounter and a priceless reaction from Timaeus who is clearly shocked---shocked!--to find gambling going on in this establishment. And here is one more tidbit from Jon Garvey's blog:     Quote When I spoke to Steve Fuller yesterday afternoon I raised my own biggest problem with such a change in direction - that it gives opponents ammunition for their claim that ID is really only creationism dressed up as science. He pointed out that since that claim is made anyway, there’s not much to be lost --- and that it would be a price worth paying in the big game. It would appear that Stephen Meyer, at least, agrees with that assessement. Linked to a wrong thread on Garvey's blog. Here is the correct link: Why Steve Fuller is on the money Thanks - that's making a lot more sense now. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,09:20    So the big debate in ID circles these days is not about how to pursue science, but whether or not to continue lying about their motives. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,12:11    Quote (midwifetoad @ July 18 2012,09:20) So the big debate in ID circles these days is not about how to pursue science, but whether or not to continue lying about their motives. man...curtain...etc. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,14:01    Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 17 2012,06:55) fnxtr wanted me to portrait KF as harlequin. He didn't specify the gender.                      Bydand! -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

Occam's Aftershave Posts: 5287 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,14:58    Over at the Tard farm, Diogenes continues to kick the IDiots square in the nuts.   Quote As we saw in the MathGrrl thread, none of you (except maybe VjTorley and Gpuccio) understand your own “theory.” None of you understand it. You’ve never applied it to any real world problem. That’s why, when MathGrrl asked you to apply your own theory to a simple, simple, simple, real world problem, you dumped HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of ad hominems on her. Only Vjtorley understands Dembski’s math, and maybe Gpuccio. The rest of you do not understand Dembski’s math. The rest of you understand nothing but insult, attack, insult. linky KF gets a second boot just for good measure   Quote You just try– you just try– reposting what you wrote with the ad hominems removed. Just as an experiment. Without that, what have you got, KF? You got nothing. Diogenes:  dead man posting.   -------------- "CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way" "All the evidence supports Creation baraminology" "If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic." "Jews and Christians are Muslims." - Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2012,16:30    Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ July 18 2012,12:58) Over at the Tard farm, Diogenes continues to kick the IDiots square in the nuts.     Quote As we saw in the MathGrrl thread, none of you (except maybe VjTorley and Gpuccio) understand your own “theory.” None of you understand it. You’ve never applied it to any real world problem. That’s why, when MathGrrl asked you to apply your own theory to a simple, simple, simple, real world problem, you dumped HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of ad hominems on her. Only Vjtorley understands Dembski’s math, and maybe Gpuccio. The rest of you do not understand Dembski’s math. The rest of you understand nothing but insult, attack, insult. linky KF gets a second boot just for good measure     Quote You just try– you just try– reposting what you wrote with the ad hominems removed. Just as an experiment. Without that, what have you got, KF? You got nothing. Diogenes:  dead man posting.   :( Only Gord could start a post with "Ignore Diogenes", then follow it with a 1058-word response. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2012,05:41    The ancient Steve Fuller in ID thread continues to bear hilarious fruit.  For instance, in Reply 24, Axel attempts a joke:         Quote Nor will the great God, Baal-Bingo, find such faith in him in any other previous or future generation in mankind’s long and, heretofore, faithless history, to compare with it. In the next reply, tragic mishap picks it up and carries it:         Quote 25  tragic mishap July 1, 2012 at 7:17 am “Baal-Bingo”? lol you are hilarious. I hope you have more material.  This should become the spaghetti monster for atheists. LOL. Anyway I would agree with Gregory that the “founder” of ID were those present at the meeting at Pajaro Dunes. As for Fuller being on the “front-lines,” well, if being on the front-lines means you live in Britain and stand up for ID in academia there, then ok. But intellectually? Not so much. No offense to Mr. Fuller. Axel, not being the sharpest tool in the drawer, mistakes tragic mishap for an antagonist and hits back:         Quote 26  Axel July 1, 2012 at 9:28 am Mmm. Unusual to find a poster celebrating his birth via his username, tragic mishap. Good job, the geneticist, Watson wasn’t about, or you might not have been here. “This should become the spaghetti monster for atheists. LOL.” Gosh, that’s puerile stuff for this board. Did you think it was Richie Dawkins’ site? Care to name one of the great paradigm-changers of physics who were not convinced of ID – an individual, not a team? Thought not. Next question? He then adds an afterthought:         Quote 27  Axel July 1, 2012 at 9:29 am I know. Don’t tell me. You’re a school-boy! Several messages later, tragic mishap summons all of is wit and replies:         Quote 31  tragic mishap July 1, 2012 at 3:02 pm “Unusual to find a poster celebrating his birth via his username, tragic mishap.” You leave my mother alone! Sorry tm, but you'll never be Uncommonly Dense quality. Meanwhile, Timaeus wants to join the party:         Quote If atheists and agnostics were Christian, one would not have to rely on science alone to convince them that nature is designed. I can't argue with that. This whole thread started when "UD regular Gregory" breathlessly announced that, "A collection of quotations on ‘intelligent design’ by American-British philosopher and sociologist of science and invited Dover Trial witness Steve Fuller from the past 7 years has not long ago been published here: http://social-epistemology.com/2012.......-design "   Not only that, but "If Uncommon Descent blog would wish to discuss these things I (Gregory) will be available on a limited basis to respond and will contact Dr. Fuller with any specifically poignant, relevant or challenging questions to him." Strangely, this condescending announcement is not greeted with thankful acclaim, even though " Fuller is one of the founders of ID theory and has written and spoken in recent years on science, philosophy and religion dialogue, in addition to his new work on trans-humanism (Humanity 2.0), which is sympathetic to ID in a way that will invite much thought and discussion for years to come."  (I almost fear to ask what trans-humanism means to Mr. Fuller.) This inspires a 3^27 word reply from KF which is too boring to be comprehensible and the "conversation" degenerates from there. People with a LOT of time on their hands will find a link to a three-way conversation between Fuller, Ed Feser and Colin Mcginn.  Ed Feser is one of vjtorley's biggest heart throbs.  You have been warned. Attentive readers will soon realize that the UD regulars think Fuller is a bit of a dick.  They also don't like him claiming to be one of the founders of ID.  They also can't admit to themselves that ID in America is just a failed plot to sneak Jesus into our public schools despite the First Amendment and hence the instinctive drawing in of the ID breath at Fuller's suggestion that they embrace the religious aspect of ID and run with it.  They also don't seem to realize that in England, where there is no separation of Church and State, there is no need to pretend that ID is science and the English can't seem to see the reason for the ID subterfuge. Oh, one more pair of quotes: Quote 6 Gregory Isn’t one of the main issues here that *there is no single founder of ID,* like A. Einstein was for physical relativity or W. Heisenberg was for the ‘uncertainty principle’ or I. Newton was for gravity or N. Copernicus (then Rheticus) was for heliocentric cosmology? All in all, it's UD at it's best. Quote 7 Cantor Your choice of Heisenberg’s name to make your point was a very poor one. There was no single founder of quantum mechanics. ID: Religion can be funny.

NormOlsen Posts: 104 Joined: Nov. 2011 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2012,09:48    Gil, tell us again how clever you were as a child: Quote During the summer between my sixth- and seventh-grade education in public school, I became enamored with Greek mythology, and read the great classic, Edith Hamilton’s Mythology. When I entered seventh grade, on the first day of school, our English teacher asked us what books we had read over the summer. I responded with Edith Hamilton’s classic. That's right, Edith Hamilton's classic, IN SEVENTH GRADE!  And the teacher was all like "Oh Gil you are ever so clever!  I do declare you'll one day be famous rocket scientist and frilly concert pianist!" Gill as a child: And the rest of us:

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2012,09:59    Dog bits man, Joe is wrong. Stop the press! He admits it! http://www.uncommondescent.com/human-e....-428158 Quote grannyape- Humans were around 4300 years ago. But anyway I was incorrect, as wd400 pointed out. However so is the “definition” of “prehistory” as it assumes that humans could not write/ document anything for some period of time. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Kattarina98 Posts: 1267 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2012,10:07    Quote (NormOlsen @ July 19 2012,09:48) Gil, tell us again how clever you were as a child:   Quote During the summer between my sixth- and seventh-grade education in public school, I became enamored with Greek mythology, and read the great classic, Edith Hamilton’s Mythology. When I entered seventh grade, on the first day of school, our English teacher asked us what books we had read over the summer. I responded with Edith Hamilton’s classic. That's right, Edith Hamilton's classic, IN SEVENTH GRADE!  And the teacher was all like "Oh Gil you are ever so clever!  I do declare you'll one day be famous rocket scientist and frilly concert pianist!" Gill as a child: And the rest of us: It should be incorporated into the Dodgenator: "4. I was a child prodigy" Edit: Link fixed Edited by Kattarina98 on July 19 2012,10:08 -------------- Barry Arrington is a bitch.

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2012,11:09    Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 19 2012,10:07) It should be incorporated into the Dodgenator: "4. I was a child prodigy" Edit: Link fixed I think to be accurate, it would have to go in the first part as "f". Nice call either way. ETA: Of course, to really complete the picture, Gil's mythically-stylized conclusion must be added as well: Quote 4. [Therefore] I’m confident that the Darwinian Hydra’s severed head stumps will be cauterized, by the advancement of legitimate science unfettered by Darwinian irrationality. Sig worthy if ever there was such an uttering! ETA2: Changed the quote to note that I added the "therefore"; all the rest is lifted directly from the Dodgenator's statement. Edited by Robin on July 19 2012,11:33 -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2012,22:57    See what Dembksi and others will present at asa 2012:     Quote Science, Faith, and the Media: Communicating Beyond Books “Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.”—Ephesians 4:25, NIV July 20–July 23, 2012 Point Loma Nazarene University 3900 Lomaland Drive San Diego, CA 92106 The 67th Annual Meeting of the American Scientific Affiliation E.g.   Quote Saturday, 21 July 2012 2:45 PM A Taxonomy of Information andthe Design Inference Stephen Meyer, William Dembski, and Casey Luskin Within the technical literature of the information sciences, the concept of information has been defined in various ways. One finds discussions of Shannon information, information carrying capacity, functional information, complex and  specified information, Kolmogorov information, syntactic information, and semantic information, among many other concepts. This paper will present a taxonomy of different types of information, and will define and distinguish different types of information from one another. It will also ask what type or types of information need be present in a system in order to indicate the prior activity of a designing intelligence. In so doing, it will also examine the claim, made recently in Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith, that the presence of only semantic information, rather than functional information, is necessary to justify an inference to design. They will also have Ann Gauger, Caroline Crocker, Paul Nelson and Walter Bradley. However, NCSE's Josh Rosenau will also give a talk. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,02:20    Quote (sparc @ July 19 2012,20:57) See what Dembksi and others will present at asa 2012:     Quote Science, Faith, and the Media: Communicating Beyond Books “Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.”—Ephesians 4:25, NIV July 20–July 23, 2012 Point Loma Nazarene University 3900 Lomaland Drive San Diego, CA 92106 The 67th Annual Meeting of the American Scientific Affiliation E.g.   Quote Saturday, 21 July 2012 2:45 PM A Taxonomy of Information andthe Design Inference Stephen Meyer, William Dembski, and Casey Luskin Within the technical literature of the information sciences, the concept of information has been defined in various ways. One finds discussions of Shannon information, information carrying capacity, functional information, complex and  specified information, Kolmogorov information, syntactic information, and semantic information, among many other concepts. This paper will present a taxonomy of different types of information, and will define and distinguish different types of information from one another. It will also ask what type or types of information need be present in a system in order to indicate the prior activity of a designing intelligence. In so doing, it will also examine the claim, made recently in Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith, that the presence of only semantic information, rather than functional information, is necessary to justify an inference to design. They will also have Ann Gauger, Caroline Crocker, Paul Nelson and Walter Bradley. However, NCSE's Josh Rosenau will also give a talk. “Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.”—Ephesians 4:25, NIV If there is a hell, the IDiots are going to burn. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,02:22    Quote (NormOlsen @ July 19 2012,07:48) Gil, tell us again how clever you were as a child:   Quote During the summer between my sixth- and seventh-grade education in public school, I became enamored with Greek mythology, and read the great classic, Edith Hamilton’s Mythology. When I entered seventh grade, on the first day of school, our English teacher asked us what books we had read over the summer. I responded with Edith Hamilton’s classic. That's right, Edith Hamilton's classic, IN SEVENTH GRADE!  And the teacher was all like "Oh Gil you are ever so clever!  I do declare you'll one day be famous rocket scientist and frilly concert pianist!" Gill as a child: And the rest of us: This is hilarious.   -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,03:57    This is also at the ASA. Ironic much? Quote Exchanging a Lie for the Truth: On Responding to Scientific Misinformation Davis A. Young At the beginning of the nineteenth century, scientific information was transmitted via a few broadly scientific journals, hand-written letters, books, classroom instruction, public lectures, and word of mouth. Since then, we have added radio, telephones, motion pictures, television, audioand videotapes, compact discs, digital versatile discs, cell phones, email, chat rooms, websites, social media, a vast array of specialized scientific journals, e-books, and skywriting! The potential for the transmission of scientific information is unprecedented and seemingly unlimited. Given that evil is the perversion of the good, the potential for the transmission of distorted or false information is likewise unprecedented and unlimited. Examples of the latter kind of transmission illustrate poor understanding of scientific theories, belief in scientific conspiracies and hoaxes, confusion about the limits of science, suspicion of the scientific community, and rejection of well-established data and theories that challenge strongly held beliefs. The fact that we will never eradicate pseudoscience any more than we will eradicate poverty is no excuse for indifference but a call to concerted action. Distortions of science must be met with responses to authors; television, radio, and video personalities and producers; websites; and politicians. A major initiative for ASA must be the promotion of scientific knowledge among pastors and other Christian leaders. Theological seminaries should expect greater scientific understanding by entering students. Professors of apologetics and systematic theology, in particular, must be knowledgeable about the basic science that relates to biblical data and themes. ASA and its members are well positioned to encourage such an initiative -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

DiEb Posts: 312 Joined: May 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,04:59    Quote (Richardthughes @ July 17 2012,22:18)   Quote (Freddie @ July 17 2012,16:05) For crying out loud - someone get her a science book, or a maths book.  No wonder she thinks the world is only 6,000 years old.  Does she think 'm' is short for millenia? Twice in the past week.  What an embarrassment. PotW   Quote 14 DiEb July 19, 2012 at 12:30 am If you are not able to use the simplest terms (mya: million years ago, not millenia – or myllenia?) correctly, why should someone trust your interpretation of the more complex ones?   Quote 17 Joe July 19, 2012 at 8:37 am m is for millenia ;)

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,05:44    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 20 2012,01:57) This is also at the ASA. Ironic much?   Quote Exchanging a Lie for the Truth: On Responding to Scientific Misinformation Davis A. Young At the beginning of the nineteenth century, scientific information was transmitted via a few broadly scientific journals, hand-written letters, books, classroom instruction, public lectures, and word of mouth. Since then, we have added radio, telephones, motion pictures, television, audioand videotapes, compact discs, digital versatile discs, cell phones, email, chat rooms, websites, social media, a vast array of specialized scientific journals, e-books, and skywriting! The potential for the transmission of scientific information is unprecedented and seemingly unlimited. Given that evil is the perversion of the good, the potential for the transmission of distorted or false information is likewise unprecedented and unlimited. Examples of the latter kind of transmission illustrate poor understanding of scientific theories, belief in scientific conspiracies and hoaxes, confusion about the limits of science, suspicion of the scientific community, and rejection of well-established data and theories that challenge strongly held beliefs. The fact that we will never eradicate pseudoscience any more than we will eradicate poverty is no excuse for indifference but a call to concerted action. Distortions of science must be met with responses to authors; television, radio, and video personalities and producers; websites; and politicians. A major initiative for ASA must be the promotion of scientific knowledge among pastors and other Christian leaders. Theological seminaries should expect greater scientific understanding by entering students. Professors of apologetics and systematic theology, in particular, must be knowledgeable about the basic science that relates to biblical data and themes. ASA and its members are well positioned to encourage such an initiative I'm seriously starting to doubt common descent, 'cause there just ain't no way that I'm related to IDiots. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,05:46    Quote (DiEb @ July 20 2012,02:59) Quote (Richardthughes @ July 17 2012,22:18)   Quote (Freddie @ July 17 2012,16:05) For crying out loud - someone get her a science book, or a maths book.  No wonder she thinks the world is only 6,000 years old.  Does she think 'm' is short for millenia? Twice in the past week.  What an embarrassment. PotW   Quote 14 DiEb July 19, 2012 at 12:30 am If you are not able to use the simplest terms (mya: million years ago, not millenia – or myllenia?) correctly, why should someone trust your interpretation of the more complex ones?   Quote 17 Joe July 19, 2012 at 8:37 am m is for millenia ;) And even though she has been told, she hasn't corrected her posts, has she? -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

Kattarina98 Posts: 1267 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,09:21    Steve reminds Paul McBride not to criticise his betters.       Quote What is amusing is that people like Paul really believe they need to educate scientists like Gauger and Axe. The reality is both these scientists know all too well what evolutionists claim. that is why they are well equipped to test those claims in the lab and find them wanting. My bolding Their lab ETA: After it has been shown all over the internet that this booklet consists of pseudoscience bolstered with quote-mines from dated publications, does he still believe that there was any lab research involved? Edited by Kattarina98 on July 20 2012,09:29 -------------- Barry Arrington is a bitch.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,10:47    Carl Zimmer on UD, increasing the Butthurt: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....origins -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,10:51    Quote (The whole truth @ July 20 2012,05:46) Quote (DiEb @ July 20 2012,02:59) Quote (Richardthughes @ July 17 2012,22:18)     Quote (Freddie @ July 17 2012,16:05) For crying out loud - someone get her a science book, or a maths book.  No wonder she thinks the world is only 6,000 years old.  Does she think 'm' is short for millenia? Twice in the past week.  What an embarrassment. PotW     Quote 14 DiEb July 19, 2012 at 12:30 am If you are not able to use the simplest terms (mya: million years ago, not millenia – or myllenia?) correctly, why should someone trust your interpretation of the more complex ones?     Quote 17 Joe July 19, 2012 at 8:37 am m is for millenia ;) And even though she has been told, she hasn't corrected her posts, has she? If M if for Milena, Milena being "thousand years" then MYA resolves to "thousand years years ago". Perhaps this is why Joe is a YEC, it's 'exponential time'. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Badger3k Posts: 861 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,11:15    Quote (Richardthughes @ July 20 2012,10:47) Carl Zimmer on UD, increasing the Butthurt: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....origins I felt like yelling "It's a trap!" in response to Carl's request to "name one". -------------- "Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,12:44    Quote (Badger3k @ July 20 2012,12:15) Quote (Richardthughes @ July 20 2012,10:47) Carl Zimmer on UD, increasing the Butthurt: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....origins I felt like yelling "It's a trap!" in response to Carl's request to "name one". lpadron is valiantly trying to restructure reality in that thread: Quote But if it’s that important a question to Mr. Zimmer then perhaps he should ask the authors about it in the forum Klinghoffer offered. Declining that offer makes Mr. Zimmer look as though he’s as unable to defend his point against Gauger and Axe as Klinghoffer is unable to defend his from Mr. Zimmer. It's too much to expect a response to a simple question in a relatively open forum like Facebook, but failure to agree to participate in a debate on a closed forum means Zimmer is in the wrong. Those are some fancy dance steps.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,13:07    Argument by definition. Quote StephenB: By definition, a “natural cause” is defined as law/chance. Intelligence from any source, therefore, cannot be a natural cause. That is, unless there is an overlap between the categories, such as intelligence being due to law/chance, even in part. Quote StephenB: We must differentiate between [1] “nature,” which is not creative and repetitiously follows the laws of matter as an effect vs. [2] “art,” which reshapes matter and creates something new as a cause. Unless, of course, nature can be creative. Quote StephenB: Beyond that, we must differentiate between (2a) Divine or Angelic art (or any other alleged superhuman cause) and (2b) human art. I refer to the former as “supernatural intelligence” and the latter as “non-natural” intelligence. When the ID proponent analyzes data, he can scientifically detect the difference between [1] and [2], but he cannot, without the help of a philosopher, detect the difference between (2a) and (2b) Only a philosopher can tell whether or not the Brooklyn Bridge is Angelic Art? The workers who built the Brooklyn Bridge may not have been devils, but it is highly doubtful they were angels. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2012,13:17    Quote Argument by definition. Then there's Upright Biped's argument, with which he's wasted 400 posts over at the Skeptical Zone. 1. DNA translation is a semiotic process. 2. Semiotic processes are universally the product of intelligent design. 3. DNA translation is the product of intelligent design. Of course UPB doesn't want anyone to see this in its bare form, so he writes Kariosfocus sized posts complaining about how he is mistreated, avoiding any clarification of his intended argument. Argument by defining your premises as your conclusion. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

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