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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2015,22:01   

If the theory I defend were a woman who could aptly speak for herself in regards to all they have to give then she would say this right now and be this forum's Lisa:

Pointer Sisters - Jump (For My Love) with lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....Xr9pum8

Gary.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2015,22:47   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Feb. 09 2015,21:44)
In my day to day job grammar perfection is supposed to be the job of those who planned to pay off their English language major college loans by getting a job at one of the editing companies that charge academics a few thousand dollars per paper, or other paying job that actually contributes to science progress. If I had the money then I would gladly employ their help. But in an economy where what they spent their lives studying has to added to my responsibilities only the only ones left making a living are those training students for careers that are being made obsolete by thinking that way. I would rather see the presses that print science journals stay rolling while human artists and editors do what they are best at, as a team.

Where Charles Darwin is used as an example great theory writing a theory can seem like a long book that has to be full of tales about ocean voyages to exotic places. Theory writing is then like writing a novel such as Moby Dick.

In reality theory is simply what is found in electronic device data sheets and classroom science textbooks. That's why I ended up with that, not a book full of rhetorical wit in response to epic troll filled word-war internet forum battles I fought.

Attempts to write the theory in the form of a "science paper" were doomed to fail. The political issues I'm then expected to address are not even supposed to be included. I'm forced to add something in anyway or else it does not meet expectations of others. It's then impossible for the text to ever be a well written "theory". Wherever I start off writing I soon end up opening a floodgate into my having to explain a thousand other things that could take thousands of pages to half cover. I now see that as part of the punishment for going out of bounds of scientific theory writing. The best thing to do is not do that anymore. I'm then back to what I have in the pdf where a routine "Theory Of Operation" provides structural framework that keeps the "Theory of Intelligent Design" on track. What is then most important is a well labeled illustration of the system(s) where for many that is all the information that they need to have a basic understanding of how it works.

This theory writing project had to include discovery of what scientific "theory" actually is, where all that does not really belong in one is not included. We otherwise get stuck battling almost endless opinion related issues that in the end do not even matter to a real scientific theory. This keeps the theory I'm responsible for out of issues that science administrators dread the thought of getting stuck in the middle of. That makes it easy for the theory to in a sense come out of hiding without any panic at our high schools. This empowers others to control the fate of what the Discovery Institute was talking about makes them part of that scientific history just by knowing about what's at Planet Source Code these days, ahead of others who might panic by not knowing.

It just so happens that the mission of this forum is to be an authoritative administrative portal for ID related issues like mine. Where you can say that I at least know how to pick them!

In this arena there no greater glory than conquering arguments. But either way Wesley and others win in regards to achieve their educational mission...

We are not asking for perfect writing, although that would be wonderful. We are merely asking for adequate writing, i.e. at a level where we can tell with reasonable certainty what you are trying to say.  Unfortunately your writing has remained far below that quality.

K-12 texts in particular strive for clear exposition, but nothing you write has clarity (nor logic, nor supporting evidence), so you have not ended up with anything that merits being in the same building as scientific textbooks.

  
Lethean



Posts: 292
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,00:26   

Gary, I've riffled around in your underwear drawer and discovered a text file chock full of predictions you've derived from your theory. I took the liberty of enumerating them and one in particular has piqued my curiosity.

 
Quote
#20 - What triggers sexual arousal is not "hard wired" in neurons as an image, it has a molecular origin with feedback circuitry that is more or less able to sense what the eyes and brain are seeing


I was hoping you could expand on this. Could you share the moment you had this epiphany, and the train of scientific thought and reasoning that led to this prediction ?

--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."


~Dave Hawkins~

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,00:33   

Quote (N.Wells @ Feb. 09 2015,22:47)
We are not asking for perfect writing, although that would be wonderful. We are merely asking for adequate writing, i.e. at a level where we can tell with reasonable certainty what you are trying to say.

I first wanted to in detail explain why the format is the way it is. Ending up with science classroom ready material is the result of following standard theory writing procedure, not something being rushed to science classrooms by ending up with that for text.

It now seems easier for me to see what I need to do to improve the theory for printing. One possibility is to make it a short one page preface with credits, then straight to the Introduction. The Darwinian related responses in the prefaces of the now online version can be considered to have served their purposes by having been there, but best to be able to entirely do without this time. That would free me from having to do any work on it, so I can focus on all the rest. I'm also thinking of putting what's in the (no longer would have one) Conclusion section into the Introduction. I months ago tried that out and they together make more sense than on opposite ends like a journal paper could have it separated to.

The main problem has been finding what needs to be where. I now see how that can be simplified, by taking my own advice in what I just said so it's not trying to be a journal paper by having a Conclusion section to try filling with something. Expecting that from me makes it much easier for me to meet expectations.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,01:55   

Quote (Lethean @ Feb. 10 2015,00:26)
Gary, I've riffled around in your underwear drawer and discovered a text file chock full of predictions you've derived from your theory. I took the liberty of enumerating them and one in particular has piqued my curiosity.

   
Quote
#20 - What triggers sexual arousal is not "hard wired" in neurons as an image, it has a molecular origin with feedback circuitry that is more or less able to sense what the eyes and brain are seeing


I was hoping you could expand on this. Could you share the moment you had this epiphany, and the train of scientific thought and reasoning that led to this prediction ?

As a matter of fact that is part of the 24/7 causation pathway the Conclusion is explaining, which needs to be in the Introduction. It would then be possible to say that in other words, by doing a better job at the start of explaining how the system works. I could then take out the sentence you found that leaves that part mostly unexplained until somewhat the very end where added detail is easy to miss mixed in.

Once again writing that can make you say "What?" is made gone for you by not trying to sort out a Theory Of Operation like a research paper. Brain related detail found on Wikipedia is not needed for theory either, which would simplify the Speciation section. And what's in the Speciation section then mostly goes with the Molecular Intelligence section. It might help to combine that information too. Thoughts?

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,03:39   

Quote (N.Wells @ Feb. 10 2015,04:45)
Quote
Getting into this amount of sordid detail shows how some become perceived by following standard procedure, which in turn makes it easier to not worry over something I printed needing to be looked into. Some will need to explain to others why it's not worth calling in the lawyers and alerting the press. The better a reason I can give for not doing that the better, for them.
It seems so near to English that it ought to understandable, but comprehension becomes more elusive the closer you look at it.  Perhaps Gary has invented fractal incoherence?

The new language of all new hurting hair, now with extra flounce.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,04:13   

Quote
Once again writing that can make you say "What?" is made gone for you by not trying to sort out a Theory Of Operation like a research paper. Brain related detail found on Wikipedia is not needed for theory either, which would simplify the Speciation section. And what's in the Speciation section then mostly goes with the Molecular Intelligence section. It might help to combine that information too. Thoughts?


What?

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,05:59   

I've found this for you, Gaulin.

Coursera

Perhaps combine it with an English grammar course and then rewrite your "theory".

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,06:45   

Quote (ChemiCat @ Feb. 10 2015,05:59)
I've found this for you, Gaulin.

Coursera

Perhaps combine it with an English grammar course and then rewrite your "theory".

What?

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,07:50   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Feb. 09 2015,22:44)
In my day to day job grammar perfection is supposed to be the job of those who planned to pay off their English language major college loans by getting a job at one of the editing companies that charge academics a few thousand dollars per paper, or other paying job that actually contributes to science progress.

Really?  I doubt that; in fact you are entirely mistaken.  In your day job, grammar perfection is irrelevant.  Printers get paid by bulk, by volume.  The grammar in James Joyce's Ulysses is tortured compared to other works of comparable length.  All the printer is concerned with is transferal of the original to multiple copies for sale by others.  The transferal, the printing, is all that matters, and grammar plays no direct role.
In every communicating being's life, grammar is the structural form of the most properly formed speech.  The less grammatical an utterance, the less properly formed it is.  In general, the less properly formed it is, the less communicative it is, but even the grammarians concede that this is not always the case.  The greater study of language as a whole, the 'theory of language' explains why.
None of it is directly relevant to the scientific process except insofar as better communication improves the sharing of scientific information, poorer communication debilitates such sharing.
Given that you clearly have no scientific information to share, your grammar is all but irrelevant.  The relevance is merely the tragic fact that your confused writing style makes it both obvious and harder to see just how bad your ideas are.

 
Quote
...
In reality theory is simply what is found in electronic device data sheets and classroom science textbooks. That's why I ended up with that, not a book full of rhetorical wit in response to epic troll filled word-war internet forum battles I fought.

This is wrong on an epic scale even you rarely reach.
Electronic device data sheets are not science.  They are a hybrid between technology and cookbooks.  To assert that an electronic device data sheet is science could not be more incorrect.  You might as well say electronic data sheets are nutritious vegetables, or well executed ballet performances.
Electromagnetic theory is the theory that results in the technology that results in the manufacture of devices that are supported by data sheets so technologists have directed information regarding some of the proper uses of the devices.  There is nothing theoretical about that.  Nor is there anything directly 'scientific' about it.  I know; I've worked with electronic data sheets in the process of building electronic musical instruments and other electronic devices, from low-level components up to ICs.
Science is, above all else, a process.
No electronic device data sheet, no classroom science textbook, is a process.
Secondly, this attempted redefinition fails as it does not support your purpose.  You appear to be attempting to claim that your "theory" is the 'electronic device data sheet' for your software, which is ludicrous given the almost complete disconnect between the two.  It would fail even if it were true precisely because of this disconnect.
Your software does not operate according to your 'theory' nor does it model your 'theory'.  Nor does your 'theory' explain or describe how to use, nor build, your software.
Worse still, the actual theories of physics, thermodynamics, chemistry, biology and cognitive science that explain, or will explain, what intelligence, for a given and adequately specific operational definition of 'intelligence', is and how it works are nowhere near the point of being reduced to a technology that can be manufactured and then require description in the form of anything like an 'electronic device data sheet'.  Not least due to the fluid, imprecise, and entirely undefined term 'intelligence' being bandied about.
But again, what science is, above all else, is a process. That you think science is, or can be expressed in, anything as simple and descriptive (as opposed to explanatory) as an 'electronic data sheet' is further warrant to consider you both ignorant and insane.
The level of error here is at least up to the level of asserting that a cookbook is the science of nutrition.
 
Quote
...
This theory writing project had to include discovery of what scientific "theory" actually is, where all that does not really belong in one is not included.

What a scientific theory actually is, in any of the senses of that phrase, is not something you needed to  "discover", before embarking on your mad quest.  It's there to be learned.  And quite clearly you have not ever learned it.  Science is not just a process, it is a known process.  A scientific theory is not just an artifact of the process, it is an artifact with known, specific and specifiable formal content and structure.
What "matters to", what is essential to, a real scientific theory are all the things missing from your tiresome and tiresomely reposted diagram and "theory".   You lack operational definitions -- which are required, most especially when words are used outside their normal meaning or in novel ways.  You lack evidence -- you have no facts, you have no identified specific phenomena your "theory" is attempting to address.  You lack hypotheses -- you have no logical structure connecting your facts or phenomena under investigation to known facts or phenomena, you build no explanatory connections or bridges, and you fail to provide testable mechanisms as potential explanations of the phenomena or facts under investigation.  That is to say, you lack proposed explanations that could be investigated, falsified, elaborated on, or used to generate additional insights, tests, operational definitions or other artifacts of the scientific process.  Finally, you have no over-arching structure that connects hypotheses into a coherent explanatory structure that unifies the consistent and coherent set of well-supported hypotheses that are based on identifiable and specific and specified facts and/or phenomena.  
 
Quote
We otherwise get stuck battling almost endless opinion related issues that in the end do not even matter to a real scientific theory.

The primary reason for this, even ahead of the simple fact that you don't have a theory in any scientific sense of the term, is that you lack operational definitions, specific and specifiable facts being targeted by your so-called 'theory'.
No, your absurd premise "some features of the universe are best explained by intelligent agency" [paraphrasing slightly] is neither specific nor a specification for identifying which features are the focus of your efforts.  That is fatal flaw number one in your nearly infinite set of fatal flaws.
And it is why so much of your confusion and so much of the difficulty in getting to grips with your nonsense, both by others and by yourself, exists.
 
Quote
This keeps the theory I'm responsible for out of issues that science administrators dread the thought of getting stuck in the middle of.

You're not responsible for a theory.  Hasn't that sunk in yet?  There is not one single person on Earth, other than perhaps yourself, who thinks you have a theory.  Not one.
 
Quote
...It just so happens that the mission of this forum is to be an authoritative administrative portal for ID related issues like mine. Where you can say that I at least know how to pick them!

Why no, you are multiply wrong here, yet again.
How on Earth do you presume to speak, let alone speak authoritatively, about 'the mission of this forum'?  You have no role other than as a participant, and your irrelevance to the overall purpose of the forum resulted in your almost immediate banishment to just this one thread, this one topic, on a forum far richer and more nuanced than your dismissive yet self-congratulatory assertion asserts.
We do not say, nor need we say, that you "at least know how to pick them."  Those of us familiar with your drunkard's walk across the science fora of the internet know that you have obsessively sought out science related sites, moving from one to another as your reception at each follows your standard trajectory.  I dare say the only reason you're still flailing around here is that you have no where left to go.  You didn't start here, you probably won't end here, but here is about the only place left where people are willing to put up with you.  So you didn't 'pick it' in the sense you claim.  You deserve no praise for having wound up here, any more than a pinball deserves praise for eventually falling through the bumpers and exiting the field.
But we do understand quite well that it is critical to your delusions of adequacy that you give your opponents stature, lest your dismissal be even more devastating than you already feel it to be.  After all, you're being dismissed by important people, on an important site -- you are worth thereby.  
Gag me with a backhoe, that's tragic and yet nauseating and disgusting.
Quote

In this arena there no greater glory than conquering arguments. But either way Wesley and others win in regards to achieve their educational mission...

See, as I said.

The sad reality is, Gary, that you were a failure long before you showed up here, you were a failure long before you came to the notice of Wesley and many others on this board.
You were a failure before you arrived at Talk Rational, and before then you were a failure at each of the fora you've previously abused with your presence.
You were a failure the minute you started on your grand effort to come up with a  'theory of intelligent design' without having the faintest clue what 'intelligent' or 'design' meant, what phenomena they encompassed, what prior work existed, or even what science is.
You've done none of the pre-work for your task.  You have driven in a circle for hundreds of thousands of miles, burning hundreds of thousands of calories, and, as any physics student knows, you have accomplished no work.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,08:31   

tl;dr version of the above:

Gary, you confuse the map with the territory.
Worse, you confuse the printing of the map with the geological processes that resulting in the territory.

You purposefully misconstrue the raison d'être of this Forum and purposefully inflate the reputation and power of board-members to make your pitiful failure here more significant.  It's an odd form of "judge a man by his enemies" but it really is the only way you have left to salvage even the bare tatters of your delusions of adequacy.
That you fail at this as you have everything else you have done stands as testament to your ability to fail epically at life, the universe, and everything.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,08:32   

Quote
and, as any physics student knows, you have accomplished no work.


Well as most good physics students know ....less work equals more play.....in Gary's case more work equals less output ...too much friction and no traction.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,09:00   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 10 2015,09:32)
Quote
and, as any physics student knows, you have accomplished no work.


Well as most good physics students know ....less work equals more play.....in Gary's case more work equals less output ...too much friction and no traction.

Yeah, much of Gary's enterprise could be views as an attempt to prove that friction is not required for traction, because of 'motive power intelligence' or some other silly name for an even sillier fantasized pseudo-function.
Look, there's no friction in the simulation of cars going round a track, therefore friction is not needed for traction.

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2015,11:11   

Gaulin says;
Quote
What?


I thought you would not understand. It is a science course that you need to take to see how science really works. It gives you a grounding in how to use computers to create algorithms. It is definitely a course you need.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,06:54   

Nothing more thoroughly exposes Gary's pretentious delusions of having an actual theory than his inability to address, in any form at all, the following material.
If he had a theory, he could provide explanations, using only the material in his "theory", how each of these phenomena, all agreed to be acts best explained by intelligent cause, work.
Or he could explain, using only the material in his "theory", why everyone is wrong to ascribe intelligent cause as the explanation for these phenomena.
That he not only cannot but will not grapple with these is really all that needs to be said at this point.
 
Quote (N.Wells @ Dec. 31 2014,09:31)
You've got a whole lot of transparent and ineffective distraction going on, Gary.
As NoName said earlier,
     
Quote
Stop deflecting, distracting, and denying.  Man up and deal with the facts on the ground:

A phenomenon is not properly called 'emergent' when it arises from a set of phenomena to which it is properly called 'self-similar'.  And vice versa.
Not all acts of 'intelligence' are motor acts, yet your "theory" insists otherwise.  This flies in the face of your assertion that your, or any competing, "theory" must "explain how ANY intelligence system works."
Deal with the fact that you smuggle 'intelligence' into your module with the undefined and uncharacterized 'guess' function.
Deal with the fact that 'guess' does not equal 'plan'.  Your "theory" is useless as a 'theory of intelligence' if it cannot deal with plans and planning.
Deal with the fact that many acts of intelligence involve imagination, and your "theory" does not deal with imagination at all.
Deal with the fact that some of the most crucial constraints on life are thermodynamic and that your "theory" simply ignores any and all thermodynamic issues.
Etc.

     
Quote
What is the ‘something’ that must be controlled when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that none of these require muscle activity of any sort.

What are the senses that address what memory/memories when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that each of these has been performed by individuals who lack the 'obvious' sensory modalities one would expect for the product.
Sub-question — what does it mean for memory to be sensory-addressed?  The naive view that has the senses directly writing to memory or directly “indicating” what memory to use and what to store there has been debunked many many years ago.  So what are you talking about here?

What is the measure of confidence to gauge failure and success when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Sub-question — what senses address what memory/memories in the creation, storage, and retrieval of the ‘confidence’ factor?  Is it analog or digital?  What process(es) modify it, at what points, and what difference does it make?

What is the ‘ABILITY TO TAKE A GUESS’?  How is it manifested and how is it utilized when  an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

What is a guess?  How does ‘guess’ relate to ‘plan’ and to ‘imagination?  Are there factors that feed into/influence the guess?  Is a guess random?  If not, what regularity does it exhibit?  Is it algorithmic?  What algorithm?  Or how is the specific algorithm used chosen?
What justifies embedding ‘guess’ into the “flow” that defines “intelligence” when the ability to guess is generally taken to be an act of intelligence?  How is it we only find guessing happening when we find ‘molecular intelligence’ in your sense, i.e., biology?
(You do realize that a random number generator in a computer program does not ‘guess’?)


And questions from me:
     
Quote
Why is your rubbish not made obsolete by Edgar Postrado's rubbish?

     
Quote

It is also unreasonable to expect out of place detail that would limit the theory to only one level of intelligence (brains) of a model that has to work for any behavior, intelligent or not.


Since you see intelligence darn near everywhere at all levels, in your opinion what behavior would qualify as not intelligent, and why?

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,17:39   

I'm trying different things. This is one option for the starting sentence:

Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, a trinity (three) level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each others image, likeness) intelligence levels are emergent from behavior of matter that powers them.


--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,17:57   

This should be a more complete thought:

Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby behavior of matter powers the trinity (three) level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels we contain.


--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,18:28   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Feb. 11 2015,17:57)
This should be a more complete thought:

   
Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby behavior of matter powers the trinity (three) level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels we contain.

That is totally vapid and pointless unless and until you specify precisely what which features of the universe and of living things are designed.  Everybody knows that there are designed features: for example, the Mona Lisa and genetically modified corn.  Until you specify something different (and back it up), you have nothing worthwhile.   "Trinity level" is not grammatical, nor is it true, and you are trying to smuggle in some religion.  If you want to subdivide levels of biology, you've got cells, organs, individuals, and cultures or colonies, at least.  "Trinity level reciprocal causation pathway" needs to be split up with prepositions for comprehension, and I think you mean pathways, not pathway.  What "behavior of matter" are you talking about and how does it power something?  "Systematically identical" is pointless: either it's identical or it isn't, and "systematically" isn't a word that you want to use loosely in a discussion that involves biology, because it can have special meanings.  "In each other's image, likeness" is still awkward and ungrammatical.  With respect to "systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels", you can't use parenthetical phrases like that without derailing your readers' trains of thought.  "Pathway of identical intelligence levels" makes no sense.  "Intelligence levels we contain" is also ungrammatical: at minimum you need a "the" and a "that" ("the levels .... that we contain.."), but the whole sentence still remains puzzling.  Also, if the levels are identical, then intelligence can't emerge, contrary to what you will presumably be arguing later.

In short, that's still a truly crappy introduction that doesn't work for you.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,18:36   

After almost a decade you still can't get the opening fucking sentence of your 'theory' to make sense.

In light of this amazing fact, do you understand just how badly written the remaining 40 pages are?

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,18:36   

Quote (N.Wells @ Feb. 11 2015,18:28)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Feb. 11 2015,17:57)
This should be a more complete thought:

   
Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby behavior of matter powers the trinity (three) level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels we contain.

That is totally vapid and pointless unless and until you specify precisely what which features of the universe and of living things are designed.  Everybody knows that there are designed features: for example, the Mona Lisa and genetically modified corn.  Until you specify something different (and back it up), you have nothing worthwhile.   "Trinity level" is not grammatical, nor is it true, and you are trying to smuggle in some religion.  If you want to subdivide levels of biology, you've got cells, organs, individuals, and cultures or colonies, at least.  "Trinity level reciprocal causation pathway" needs to be split up with prepositions for comprehension, and I think you mean pathways, not pathway.  What "behavior of matter" are you talking about and how does it power something?  "Systematically identical" is pointless: either it's identical or it isn't, and "systematically" isn't a word that you want to use loosely in a discussion that involves biology, because it can have special meanings.  "In each other's image, likeness" is still awkward and ungrammatical.  "Pathway of identical intelligence levels" makes no sense.  "Intelligence levels we contain" is also ungrammatical: at minimum you need a "the" and a "that" ("the levels .... that we contain.."), but the whole sentence still remains puzzling.  Also, if the levels are identical, then intelligence can't emerge, contrary to what you will presumably be arguing later.

In short, that's still a truly crappy introduction that doesn't work for you.

And, of course, even if Gary somehow creates a masterpiece of English writing, it will still be science fiction until he comes up with some evidence.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,19:19   

This one has more power source detail. In a Theory Of Operation its a good idea to explain that circuit detail. And in this case batteries are like included and always charged as they should be:

Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby we contain a three (trinity) level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels all being powered by behavior of matter that also powers our muscles.


This morph adds structure that also helps show why the ID theory had to be in the format of a routine theory of operation for any system or device. I did not know that getting it right would be so noticeable. It sure helped with that sentence!

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,19:24   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Feb. 11 2015,18:36)
And, of course, even if Gary somehow creates a masterpiece of English writing, it will still be science fiction until he comes up with some evidence.

I already explained why all I need is a computer model to explain. Demanding evidence is just another way to delude yourself into thinking that I need more than that. A Theory Of Operation does not play your game either.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,19:24   

Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 11 2015,18:36)
After almost a decade you still can't get the opening fucking sentence of your 'theory' to make sense.

In light of this amazing fact, do you understand just how badly written the remaining 40 pages are?

So the answer is "No."  However, I suspect your question was rhetorical.

Gary, if that mess is a Theory of Operation, then it's an extraordinarily bad one.  A Theory of Operation is not a scientific theory, and its foremost duty is to provide a clear and understandable description of how something is supposed to work.  Your pile of verbiage fails on all levels.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,19:35   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Feb. 11 2015,20:24)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Feb. 11 2015,18:36)
And, of course, even if Gary somehow creates a masterpiece of English writing, it will still be science fiction until he comes up with some evidence.

I already explained why all I need is a computer model to explain. Demanding evidence is just another way to delude yourself into thinking that I need more than that. A Theory Of Operation does not play your game either.

Very funny, but not up to your usual "standards."
Your software is not a model of anything at all.
Your "Theory of Operation" is no such thing, in any sense at all.
But you know that.  Insofar as it can be said that you 'know' anything at all.  Which, on reflection, really isn't very far at all.

Just for laughs, who besides you thinks you have a "Theory of Operation"?

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2015,22:36   

I think we can say that Charles Darwin was an evidence gatherer and presenter. But a Theory Of Operation only cares about explaining how the underlying system/mechanism works. There is not even a place for presenting evidence like Charles and others did in books.

The test for any theory of operation is how well it explains how the system works, so that others can use the system in their projects. In this case it's all good for the "Molecular Intelligence" folk who now fill the screen in a search for that phrase who are trying to outsmart cancer cells with a database driven model for that behavior level. I easily found all four requirements in their information for how their model works. What programmers need from me are the requirements for the ID Lab demonstrated intelligence, how that works. Even though their system is not used for controlling a big-eyed buggy looking critter it's possible to conceptualize "Intelligence" in their system as though it were. That is useful for a company who otherwise uses the phrase "Molecular Intelligence" among the clutter of "Intelligent Software" that's now everywhere. The ID Lab model and theory made it possible for their use of the phrase to work as a way of being scientifically precise, not sales-pitch. Nothing needs to be changed on their end it's all in how the phrase gets conceptualized by readers, on account of the model and theory explaining what it can.

Everything working out well for Caris Life Sciences (like they did for IBM Watson team) is from the theory not being something nonstandard. As a standard theory of operation it instead fits in very well with existing "Intelligence" related work going on elsewhere.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2015,03:17   

"A theory of operation is a description of how a device or system should work. It is often included in documentation, especially maintenance/service documentation, or a user manual. It aids troubleshooting by providing the troubleshooter with a mental model of how the system is supposed to work. The troubleshooter can then more easily identify discrepancies, to aid diagnosis of problem."
Theory of operation

 
Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby behavior of matter powers the trinity (three) level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels we contain.



Gaulin, how does the first quote relate to your quote? I see no description of how your "device" works, how it troubleshoots your assertions or how your assertions (unimolecular RNA, molecular intelligence etc.) make any sense as an instruction manual.

Perhaps you should identify the discrepancies in your theory before you go any further. Then you can diagnose the many problems in your "theory".

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2015,06:46   

These are Theories of Operation:
http://www.keil.com/support....ory.htm
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res........ion.pdf
http://www.bipom.com/applica....der.pdf
http://www.sunspotworld.com/docs.......ion.pdf

I haven't reproduced them because they are all copyrighted.  They are all well-written and clear and focussed.  Not one of them starts out with a pointless and vague statement about "certain features of the universe."

Let's try a little exercise:

The Theory of Operation of Smart Phones
The theory of smart phone operation holds that certain features of machinery are best explained by an intelligent design, whereby behavior (using electrons) of matter powers the trinity (three) level reciprocal interaction pathway of systematic input (from), computation, and output (to, the user) processing levels it contains.

OK, we can see how well your pile of incoherence is going to work as a model for other theories of operation.

Somewhere around the middle of your document, it does become a kind of theory of operation of your bug program, but it's a really bad, really poorly written, really hard to follow, and astoundingly pointless theory of operation.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2015,06:49   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Feb. 11 2015,23:36)
...
The test for any theory of operation is how well it explains how the system works...

And right there is where your fraudulent attempt to present your effluent as a 'theory of operation', or, indeed, any sort of theory at all, falls apart.  On your own grounds presented here, your "theory" fails the test, and so, on your own grounds, you do not have a 'theory of operation'.
As we've been telling you, you don't have a theory of any sort whatsoever.

If you had a 'theory of operation' for intelligence, you could explain how intelligence operates in the composition of a melody.  You could explain how intelligence recognizes a melody even when transposed into a new key, played at a different tempo, and on a new instrument and thus with a different timbre.
You could explain how intelligence operates to generate a hypothesis.  You could explain how intelligence generates a theory.  You could explain how intelligence comprehends, and when, how, and how an intelligence will fail to comprehend, a theory.

You are able to do none of these things.  This is inherent in your nonsense because you specify requisites for intelligence that can be trivially demonstrated not to apply for 'certain features of the universe best explained by intelligent cause.'

And if you'd been paying attention, you'd be working on those issues rather than trying your desperate drunkard's walk through the realm of potential redefinitions of 'theory' so as to preserve your work's nomination as a theory.  What it is called matters far less than what it is.  And in this case, what it is is sewage.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2015,07:23   

Thinking in terms of a theory of operation made it easy to combine the best of what I had. I now have this to work from:

Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, which cases us to contain a three level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels being powered by the behavior of matter including our muscles.

Reciprocal cause goes in both the forward and reverse direction. This behavioral pathway causes all of our complex intelligence related behaviors to connect back to the behavior of matter, which does not need to be intelligent to be source of consciousness. For sake of theory consciousness is considered to be in addition to intelligence, but not required for intelligence to exist. Otherwise the most rudimentary forms of intelligence even simple algorithm generated computer models of intelligent processes might be expected to be conscious of their existing inside of a personal computer. It is not possible to rule-out electronic or algorithmic consciousness existing, therefore even though consciousness is not expected to exist in a computer model it is still possible that any functioning intelligence system is somehow conscious of their existence. In either case, consciousness is not a requirement for intelligence.

In biology we contain the trinity of intelligent behavior levels as follows:

(1) Molecular Intelligence: Behavior of matter causes self-assembly of molecular systems that in time become molecular intelligence, where biological RNA and DNA memory systems learn over time by replication of their accumulated genetic knowledge through a lineage of successive offspring. This intelligence level controls basic growth and division of our cells, is a primary source of our instinctual behaviors, and causes molecular level social differentiation (i.e. speciation).

(2) Cellular Intelligence: Molecular intelligence is the intelligent cause of cellular intelligence. This intelligence level controls moment to moment cellular responses such as locomotion/migration and cellular level social differentiation (i.e. neural plasticity). At our conception we were only at the cellular intelligence level. Two molecular intelligence systems (egg and sperm) which are on their own unable to self-replicate combined into a single self-replicating cell, called a zygote. The zygote then divided to become a colony of cells called an embryo. Later during fetal development we  became a functional multicellular intelligence with self-learning brain to control motor muscle movements1 (also sweat gland motor muscles).

(3) Multicellular Intelligence: Cellular intelligence is the intelligent cause of multicellular intelligence. In this case a multicellular body is controlled by an intelligent neural brain expressing all three intelligence levels at once, resulting in our complex and powerful paternal (fatherly), maternal (motherly) and other behaviors. This intelligence level controls our moment to moment multicellular responses, locomotion/migration and multicellular level social differentiation (i.e. occupation). Successful designs remain in the biosphere’s interconnected collective (RNA/DNA) memory to help keep going the billions year old cycle of life, where not all individuals must reproduce for the human lineage to need all. We are part of a molecular learning process that keeps itself going through time by replicating previous contents of genetic memory along with good (better than random) guesses what may work better in the next replication, for our children. The resulting cladogram shows a progression of adapting designs evidenced by the fossil record where never once was there not a predecessor of similar design (which can at times lead to entirely new function) present in memory for the descendant design to have come from.

A behavior qualifies as intelligent behavior by meeting all four circuit requirements for this ability, which are: [1] body (or modeling platform) with motor muscles (proteins, electric speaker, electronic write to a screen) to control, [2] memory addressed by sensory sensors where each motor action and its associated confidence value are separate data elements, [3] confidence (central hedonic, homeostasis) system that increments (stored in memory) confidence value of a successful motor action else decrements the confidence value, [4] guess new memory action when associated confidence level sufficiently decreases. For flagella powered cells a random guess response (to a new heading) is designed into the motor system by the action of reversing motor direction causing it to “tumble”.

In all cases sensory input addresses a Random Access Memory (RAM). It is possible to put the contents of a RAM into a Read Only Memory (ROM) but using a ROM instead of RAM takes away the system's ability to self-learn, it cannot form new memories that are needed to adapt to new environments. The result is more of a zombie that may at first appear to be a fully functional intelligence but they are missing something necessary, a RAM in the circuit, not a ROM. Behavior of matter does not need to be intelligent, a fully trained (all knowing) ROM could be used to produce atomic/molecular behavior. But a ROM would not work where intelligent behavior is needed. Unless the ROM contains all-knowing knowledge of the future and all the humans it will ever meet in its lifetime it can never recall memories of meeting them, or their name and what they look like.

In machine intelligence the IBM Watson system that won at Jeopardy qualifies as intelligent. Word combinations for hypotheses were guessed then tested against memory for confidence in each being a hypothesis that is true and whether confident enough in its best answer to push a button/buzzer. The Watson platform had a speaker (for vocal muscles) and muscles guiding a pen was simulated by an electric powered writing device.

For computer modeling purposes the behavior of matter can be thought of as being “all-knowing” in the sense that the behavior is inherent, does not have to learn its responses. A computer model then starts off with this behavior already in memory and has no GUESS or CONFIDENCE included in the algorithm, as does intelligence. Memory contents then never changes. Only a GUESS can write new data to memory and GUESS must here be taken out of the algorithm. But it is possible to leave the CONFIDENCE in the algorithm, it will still work the exact same way. Where this in time proves to be true for real matter it would be a valuable clue as to how consciousness works and possibly how to model it, which may in turn help answer the “big questions” including those pertaining to afterlife.

The combined knowledge of all three of these intelligence levels guides spawning salmon of both sexes on long perilous migrations to where they were born and may stay to defend their nests "till death do they part". Otherwise merciless alligators fiercely protect their well-cared-for offspring who are taught how to lure nest building birds into range by putting sticks on their head and will scurry into her mouth when in danger. For humans this instinctual and learned knowledge has through time guided us towards marriage ceremonies to ask for "blessing" from an eternal conscious loving "spirit" existing at another level our multicellular intelligence level cannot directly experience. It is of course possible that one or both of the parents will later lose interest in the partnership, or they may have more offspring than they can possibly take care of, or none at all, but "for better or for worse" for such intelligence anywhere in the universe, there will nonetheless be the strong love we still need and cherish to guide us, forever through generations of time...


--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2015,07:33   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Feb. 12 2015,08:23)
Thinking in terms of a theory of operation made it easy to combine the best of what I had. I now have this to work from:

 
Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, which cases us to contain a three level reciprocal causation pathway of systematically identical (in each other's image, likeness) intelligence levels being powered by the behavior of matter including our muscles.

Reciprocal cause goes in both the forward and reverse direction. This behavioral pathway causes all of our complex intelligence related behaviors to connect back to the behavior of matter, which does not need to be intelligent to be source of consciousness. For sake of theory consciousness is considered to be in addition to intelligence, but not required for intelligence to exist. Otherwise the most rudimentary forms of intelligence even simple algorithm generated computer models of intelligent processes might be expected to be conscious of their existing inside of a personal computer. It is not possible to rule-out electronic or algorithmic consciousness existing, therefore even though consciousness is not expected to exist in a computer model it is still possible that any functioning intelligence system is somehow conscious of their existence. In either case, consciousness is not a requirement for intelligence.

In biology we contain the trinity of intelligent behavior levels as follows:

(1) Molecular Intelligence: Behavior of matter causes self-assembly of molecular systems that in time become molecular intelligence, where biological RNA and DNA memory systems learn over time by replication of their accumulated genetic knowledge through a lineage of successive offspring. This intelligence level controls basic growth and division of our cells, is a primary source of our instinctual behaviors, and causes molecular level social differentiation (i.e. speciation).

(2) Cellular Intelligence: Molecular intelligence is the intelligent cause of cellular intelligence. This intelligence level controls moment to moment cellular responses such as locomotion/migration and cellular level social differentiation (i.e. neural plasticity). At our conception we were only at the cellular intelligence level. Two molecular intelligence systems (egg and sperm) which are on their own unable to self-replicate combined into a single self-replicating cell, called a zygote. The zygote then divided to become a colony of cells called an embryo. Later during fetal development we  became a functional multicellular intelligence with self-learning brain to control motor muscle movements1 (also sweat gland motor muscles).

(3) Multicellular Intelligence: Cellular intelligence is the intelligent cause of multicellular intelligence. In this case a multicellular body is controlled by an intelligent neural brain expressing all three intelligence levels at once, resulting in our complex and powerful paternal (fatherly), maternal (motherly) and other behaviors. This intelligence level controls our moment to moment multicellular responses, locomotion/migration and multicellular level social differentiation (i.e. occupation). Successful designs remain in the biosphere’s interconnected collective (RNA/DNA) memory to help keep going the billions year old cycle of life, where not all individuals must reproduce for the human lineage to need all. We are part of a molecular learning process that keeps itself going through time by replicating previous contents of genetic memory along with good (better than random) guesses what may work better in the next replication, for our children. The resulting cladogram shows a progression of adapting designs evidenced by the fossil record where never once was there not a predecessor of similar design (which can at times lead to entirely new function) present in memory for the descendant design to have come from.

A behavior qualifies as intelligent behavior by meeting all four circuit requirements for this ability, which are: [1] body (or modeling platform) with motor muscles (proteins, electric speaker, electronic write to a screen) to control, [2] memory addressed by sensory sensors where each motor action and its associated confidence value are separate data elements, [3] confidence (central hedonic, homeostasis) system that increments (stored in memory) confidence value of a successful motor action else decrements the confidence value, [4] guess new memory action when associated confidence level sufficiently decreases. For flagella powered cells a random guess response (to a new heading) is designed into the motor system by the action of reversing motor direction causing it to “tumble”.

In all cases sensory input addresses a Random Access Memory (RAM). It is possible to put the contents of a RAM into a Read Only Memory (ROM) but using a ROM instead of RAM takes away the system's ability to self-learn, it cannot form new memories that are needed to adapt to new environments. The result is more of a zombie that may at first appear to be a fully functional intelligence but they are missing something necessary, a RAM in the circuit, not a ROM. Behavior of matter does not need to be intelligent, a fully trained (all knowing) ROM could be used to produce atomic/molecular behavior. But a ROM would not work where intelligent behavior is needed. Unless the ROM contains all-knowing knowledge of the future and all the humans it will ever meet in its lifetime it can never recall memories of meeting them, or their name and what they look like.

In machine intelligence the IBM Watson system that won at Jeopardy qualifies as intelligent. Word combinations for hypotheses were guessed then tested against memory for confidence in each being a hypothesis that is true and whether confident enough in its best answer to push a button/buzzer. The Watson platform had a speaker (for vocal muscles) and muscles guiding a pen was simulated by an electric powered writing device.

For computer modeling purposes the behavior of matter can be thought of as being “all-knowing” in the sense that the behavior is inherent, does not have to learn its responses. A computer model then starts off with this behavior already in memory and has no GUESS or CONFIDENCE included in the algorithm, as does intelligence. Memory contents then never changes. Only a GUESS can write new data to memory and GUESS must here be taken out of the algorithm. But it is possible to leave the CONFIDENCE in the algorithm, it will still work the exact same way. Where this in time proves to be true for real matter it would be a valuable clue as to how consciousness works and possibly how to model it, which may in turn help answer the “big questions” including those pertaining to afterlife.

The combined knowledge of all three of these intelligence levels guides spawning salmon of both sexes on long perilous migrations to where they were born and may stay to defend their nests "till death do they part". Otherwise merciless alligators fiercely protect their well-cared-for offspring who are taught how to lure nest building birds into range by putting sticks on their head and will scurry into her mouth when in danger. For humans this instinctual and learned knowledge has through time guided us towards marriage ceremonies to ask for "blessing" from an eternal conscious loving "spirit" existing at another level our multicellular intelligence level cannot directly experience. It is of course possible that one or both of the parents will later lose interest in the partnership, or they may have more offspring than they can possibly take care of, or none at all, but "for better or for worse" for such intelligence anywhere in the universe, there will nonetheless be the strong love we still need and cherish to guide us, forever through generations of time...

This has already been shown to be false, with evidence.

Is this why you are so dismissive of evidence?  The brute fact that you have none and all the evidence that has been mustered up with respect [sic] to your "theory" shows it to be irremediably false.

You're making things worse for your "theory" by inserting phrases such as "in all cases".  Among other things, it puts you firmly in the wrong.  It also puts you firmly in the camp of those who mistake the map for the territory.  Or, in your case, the printing of the map with the physical and chemical and geophysical processes that generated the territory.

  
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