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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,07:43   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,02:33)
   
Quote (N.Wells @ May 20 2016,17:27)
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article........ull

Interesting article from two months ago.  How does that match up with your model?

I note that the authors are not in academia, incidentally.

The RAM based associative memory of a David Heiserman based model already links events and actions to each other in a sequential what comes after what way. The article seems to be explaining how neurons adapt to form the "addressing" part of the RAM circuit. I sent a link to Camp for their opinion but apparently they're not absolutely certain how it matches up to the Heiserman model either. My experiments indicate that what they are describing in the article is already accounted for in the model I have, more specifically requirement number 2, sensory addressed memory.

The authors are associated with Numenta, which is not "academia" but at least it qualifies as an academic corporation and one of the authors is listed as a "Doctorate". I'm not sure whether the journal would publish the work of someone with none of that at all. In either case the need for me to supply that sort of information is at the very least an embarrassing problem. The best I can do is list a High School diploma from a school I was transferred to that at the time almost lost its state accreditation due to students only being prepared for what are considered to be menial tasks like to pump gas, sand a car by hand, cook a meal, or run a cash register. Things have since changed for the better, but in either case self-learners who were ahead of their peers in science are punished by the higher education diploma mills and those who cater to them. If the work is not published by a major science journal that can be cited then it's OK to not give them any credit at all, especially when it's associated with a Theory of Intelligent Design. In a case like that it's easily justifiable to use the academic system to destroy any credibility they do have and I have good reasons to only want to empower those who do NOT advocate academic snobbery.

If I must supply appropriately cited work as opposed to "hobby" books and at work/home experience then those who must have it can kiss my ass instead. And entities like PBS who are likewise normally treated like they don't exist and are not given credit where due have good reasons for liking how things are turning out in the conference video and paper that very much turns the table on that situation. It's not often (or maybe never) that Dinosaur Train gets credit for excellent work in defining what a hypothesis is. Those who need long definitions that end up expecting the general public to stop using the word "theory" as is normal on US TV shows like the very popular program my wife loves named "Castle" and in real life are likewise part of the problem, but academia has a way of making sure that they don't even know it. More people than you realize have a low opinion of the academic snobbery that results in pompous demands and insults from university spokespeople who think they know what's best for us torch and pitchfork peasants.
[/rant]

Their model simulates biologically realistic, excitatory, cortical, pyramidal neurons, with typical neurons possessing active dendrites and thousands of ever-changing synapses, with different proximal, basal, and apical dendrites, which "closely matches known neuron anatomy and physiology".  They propose a sequential, hierarchical process that allows neurons to integrate their inputs in a functionally meaningful way.

When stimulated, dendrites create NMDA spikes, which depolarize the dendritic membrane, thereby opening voltage-gated ion channels. The resulting influx of cations causes an increase in voltage. If the voltage increases past a certain threshold, that activates other voltage-gated channels thereby transmitting a current along the dendrite.  When a sufficiently large and dense activity among apical dendrites, then a signal is sent to basal dendrites, and similarly if enough of those get activated then a signal is passed on to the apical dendrites, which generate an overall response by the cell.  (From Palmer et al., 2014, Nature, http://www.nature.com/neuro......46.html "we found that isolated NMDA spikes typically occurred in multiple branches simultaneously and that sensory stimulation substantially increased their probability. Our results demonstrate that NMDA receptors have a vital role in coupling the tuft region of the layer 2/3 pyramidal neuron to the cell body, enhancing the effectiveness of layer 1 input."

   
Quote
[Back to Hawkins and Ahmad] Experimental results show that the coincident activation of 8–20 synapses in close spatial proximity on a dendrite will combine in a non-linear fashion and cause an NMDA dendritic spike (Larkum et al., 1999; Schiller et al., 2000; Schiller and Schiller, 2001; Major et al., 2013).


An apical NMDA spike can cause a Ca2+ spike, which, if solitary, will depolarize the soma, but typically not enough to generate a somatic action potential.  In turn, previously depolarized neurons emit a spike sooner than non-depolarized neurons.  

   
Quote
If a section of the neuron's dendrite forms new synapses to just 10 of the 2000 active cells, and the threshold for generating an NMDA spike is 10, then the dendrite will detect the target pattern when all 10 synapses receive activation at the same time.


   
Quote
The synapses recognizing a given pattern have to be co-located on a dendritic segment. If they lie within 40 μm of each other then as few as eight synapses are sufficient to create an NMDA spike (Major et al., 2008). If the synapses are spread out along the dendritic segment, then up to 20 synapses are needed (Major et al., 2013).


This allows them to calculate the chance of false positive signals, which in turn allows them to calculate the efficieny of the system in distinguishing true signals from noise.
 
Quote
In the above example, doubling the number of synapses and hence introducing a 50% noise tolerance, increases the chance of error to only 1.6 × 10^−18.


I'm skipping over the significant portion of the paper that discusses how all this translates to learning rules for memorization of sequences, but "a network of standard linear or non-linear neurons with a simplified dendrite structure cannot easily implement these activation and learning rules."

This in some ways corresponds to your "confidence evaluation".  In particular, you are going to get all excited that the authors talk about incrementing and decrementing.  However, 1) the authors ground their simulation in actual underlying biological processes, 2) they simulate those processes, rather than just having variables with supposedly appropriate names, and 3) they document evidence about how those processes work rather than just making assertions.  Most importantly, the authors instead use the term "coincidence detection", which is significantly less teleological and does not beg the conclusion of intelligence.


Beyond all that, no journal ever asks about authors' qualifications as a prerequisite to publication, or cites an author's affiliation (or lack thereof) as a reason not to publish.  Reviewers may note those things as an explanation for why an author clearly has no idea what he or she is talking about, but that's a different matter.  Among other things, retired geologists may continue to do research and to publish out of their homes, without listing university affiliations or degrees in their writings.

Numenta is a straightforward corporation (what is an "academic corporation"?).  It is funded by investors in order to do research that is expected ultimately to yield profitable returns.



With the educational background you describe, you should hesitate to base any conclusions of your supposed understanding of how things operate (such as scientists being supposed to help cranks with their rubbish).  You have demonstrated that you'd be best off with the starting assumption that whatever you think at first is likely to be wrong.  (That's pretty much a good assumption to check every now and again in all of science, but in your case it's an all-the-time necessity.)

As a specific example of your instincts habitually being wrong, Dinosaur Train deserves no credit whatsoever for the definition of an hypothesis, as we discussed long ago when you first brought up the subject.  First, credit goes to earlier people, such as Bacon, Chamberlin, and Platt.  Second, Dinosaur Train is merely explaining it, not defining it. Third, as we have already discussed, their actual definition (an hypothesis is a testable idea) is not bad, and it works fine for kids, but scientific practice is a little more complicated.  In particular, Dinosaur Train is conflating "hypothesis" as used in hypothesis testing with "hypothesis" as used in statistics, and is messing things up in the process.  Fourth, their specific example sucks, because it is without significance or interest or explanation.  In hypothesis testing in science, hypotheses (other than statistical ones) usually but not always contain significant elements of explanation, rather than just being declaratory statements of alternative realities that are about to be tested.  Also, to be useful an hypothesis has to be testable (note the "Testable Predictions" section in the Hawkins and Ahmad paper).  This stems from the longstanding use in logic of "hypothesis" as the antecedent of a proposition: it's A in "If A, then B".  

Usage of "hypothesis" in statistics overlaps this, but is not identical:  Null hypothesis: A is not different from B, at some level of significance; Alternate hypothesis: A is different from B at that level of significance.  In this sense, we have indeed stated two mutually exclusive statements of possibility, and we test them against each other (as in Chamberlin-Platt hypothesis testing), but no level of explanation is included (like Dinosaur Train).  It's simply two mutually exclusive statements (not just one, contrary to Dinosaur Train).  Statisticians talk about testing these hypotheses, but this is probabilistic acceptance or rejection of the null hypothesis, rather than rejection by disproof.  Dinosaur Train's example implies absolutist and positivistic rejection or acceptance, rather than either testing by falsifiable predictions or probabilistic evaluation.

Academia does not need reminding that America has a strong anti-intellectual / anti-elistist strain (George Wallace's attacks on "pointy-headed intellectuals"; Rick Santorum calling Obama a snob for wanting more Americans to go to college). Fortunately, science continually demonstrates its value to society by coming up with useful (and in many cases profitable) ideas.  Rather like Numenta, and entirely unlike you, for example.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,09:43   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,07:43)
Academia does not need reminding that America has a strong anti-intellectual / anti-elistist strain (George Wallace's attacks on "pointy-headed intellectuals"; Rick Santorum calling Obama a snob for wanting more Americans to go to college). Fortunately, science continually demonstrates its value to society by coming up with useful (and in many cases profitable) ideas.  Rather like Numenta, and entirely unlike you, for example.

Punishing grade school kids for on their own learning how to do college level science and electronic work is academic snobbery.

You are the one proving to be anti-intellectual. Only thing you are supporting is the feeding of expensive diploma mills that I and others have to pay for.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,09:52   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,09:43)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,07:43)
Academia does not need reminding that America has a strong anti-intellectual / anti-elistist strain (George Wallace's attacks on "pointy-headed intellectuals"; Rick Santorum calling Obama a snob for wanting more Americans to go to college). Fortunately, science continually demonstrates its value to society by coming up with useful (and in many cases profitable) ideas.  Rather like Numenta, and entirely unlike you, for example.

Punishing grade school kids for on their own learning how to do college level science and electronic work is academic snobbery.

You are the one proving to be anti-intellectual. Only thing you are supporting is the feeding of expensive diploma mills that I and others have to pay for.

BS on all counts there.  

No one is punishing kids for learning on their own.  You are getting pushback indirectly for having learned incorrectly but more directly for continuing to insist wrongly that you are right and everyone else is wrong.  That's a very different thing, and it's not "college-level".  You are more at the level of "not even wrong".  Also, try to learn from expert sources, rather than Dinosaur Train and Castle.

You are the one making intellectually dishonest arguments, and you are the one hanging out with exploitative hack institutions like the Discovery Institute.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,10:18   

My having to endure a public education that was more like being forced to daily attend a bullying prison that took away from my science and electronics projects is one reason why the last thing I wanted is more years of that abuse. I watched peers graduate from high school to learn what I was already doing, which made me wonder why they were so far behind.

And please explain how the paper relates to cellular and it's genetic level intelligence. You are avoiding that by repeating what the paper says while ignoring all else that I have to cover.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,10:37   

Quote
My having to endure a public education that was more like being forced to daily attend a bullying prison that took away from my science and electronics projects is one reason why the last thing I wanted is more years of that abuse. I watched peers graduate from high school to learn what I was already doing, which made me wonder why they were so far behind.


Would you have been hired at your present job without a HS diploma?  Also, why didn't you seek out and work with other students who were working on those 'science and electronics projects'?  That's what I did . . . . it tended to keep the bullies at bay; which, by any account, weren't supposed to be part of the public school curriculum - they're just individuals who liked making people feel bad.  My guess is you'd have had to deal with them in real life anyway, if you hadn't gone to public HS.  Don't blame us (or the system) for that . . . .

You conflate a lot, we grew out of that phase.  Please study the science you're bringing to the table, your ignorance is showing . . . .

You hoot, you!   :)  :)  :)

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,10:58   

Quote (jeffox @ May 21 2016,10:37)
Would you have been hired at your present job without a HS diploma?

Yes. I started work in the graphic arts industry before graduating from high school.

 
Quote (jeffox @ May 21 2016,10:37)
Also, why didn't you seek out and work with other students who were working on those 'science and electronics projects'?

There were none in my neighborhood, except one who I started building a telephone with but he soon moved away or something. My parents did on occasion find a summer camp with rocketry and Math Magic, or other academic class I could attend like one where we built radios but they were rare.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,11:15   

Poor poor pitiful Gary -- so horribly abused by the facts of reality being what they are instead of what he wishes they were, and had been.
Grow up and cope, dude.  Everyone else, literally, manages to do so.  But you're a special little snowflake, aren't you?

You moron.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,11:57   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,07:43)
This allows them to calculate the chance of false positive signals, which in turn allows them to calculate the efficieny of the system in distinguishing true signals from noise.
     
Quote
In the above example, doubling the number of synapses and hence introducing a 50% noise tolerance, increases the chance of error to only 1.6 × 10^−18.


I'm skipping over the significant portion of the paper that discusses how all this translates to learning rules for memorization of sequences, but "a network of standard linear or non-linear neurons with a simplified dendrite structure cannot easily implement these activation and learning rules."

This in some ways corresponds to your "confidence evaluation".  In particular, you are going to get all excited that the authors talk about incrementing and decrementing............


There is no confidence "evaluation" just confidence "levels" associated with each data element stored in memory.

And no, a single neuron learning how to reliably respond to a given set of sensory inputs is indicative of self-organization of a memory-wide addressing circuit made of made of many neurons.

Spare me the long pompous speeches about what authors in another area of science are writing about. I rely on neuroscience related research for clues how the human brain is wired together as I expect it to be, but I am not doing what everyone else is doing and I am proud of that even though you spit on me for not doing what everyone else does.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,12:05   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,11:57)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,07:43)
This allows them to calculate the chance of false positive signals, which in turn allows them to calculate the efficieny of the system in distinguishing true signals from noise.
     
Quote
In the above example, doubling the number of synapses and hence introducing a 50% noise tolerance, increases the chance of error to only 1.6 × 10^−18.


I'm skipping over the significant portion of the paper that discusses how all this translates to learning rules for memorization of sequences, but "a network of standard linear or non-linear neurons with a simplified dendrite structure cannot easily implement these activation and learning rules."

This in some ways corresponds to your "confidence evaluation".  In particular, you are going to get all excited that the authors talk about incrementing and decrementing............


There is no confidence "evaluation" just confidence "levels" associated with each data element stored in memory.

And no, a single neuron learning how to reliably respond to a given set of sensory inputs is indicative of self-organization of a memory-wide addressing circuit made of made of many neurons.

Spare me the long pompous speeches about what authors in another area of science are writing about. I rely on neuroscience related research for clues how the human brain is wired together as I expect it to be, but I am not doing what everyone else is doing and I am proud of that even though you spit on me for not doing what everyone else does.

So you demand everyone else connect biology to cognitive science even when that has fuck all to do with their research, but you don't care what everyone else is doing?  Can't you see how hypocritical that is?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,12:07   

No.  No he cannot.  Gary's sensory system isn't wired for input.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,12:57   

Quote (Texas Teach @ May 21 2016,12:05)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,11:57)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,07:43)
This allows them to calculate the chance of false positive signals, which in turn allows them to calculate the efficieny of the system in distinguishing true signals from noise.
         
Quote
In the above example, doubling the number of synapses and hence introducing a 50% noise tolerance, increases the chance of error to only 1.6 × 10^−18.


I'm skipping over the significant portion of the paper that discusses how all this translates to learning rules for memorization of sequences, but "a network of standard linear or non-linear neurons with a simplified dendrite structure cannot easily implement these activation and learning rules."

This in some ways corresponds to your "confidence evaluation".  In particular, you are going to get all excited that the authors talk about incrementing and decrementing............


There is no confidence "evaluation" just confidence "levels" associated with each data element stored in memory.

And no, a single neuron learning how to reliably respond to a given set of sensory inputs is indicative of self-organization of a memory-wide addressing circuit made of made of many neurons.

Spare me the long pompous speeches about what authors in another area of science are writing about. I rely on neuroscience related research for clues how the human brain is wired together as I expect it to be, but I am not doing what everyone else is doing and I am proud of that even though you spit on me for not doing what everyone else does.

So you demand everyone else connect biology to cognitive science even when that has fuck all to do with their research, but you don't care what everyone else is doing?  Can't you see how hypocritical that is?

Did you on purpose misrepresent what I said or are you normally an asshole?

What the theory explains very much connects to biology, but expecting educators such as yourself (not that all are like you most are not) to have a functional understanding of what is most important to know in cognitive science is asking too much from an asshole that is not even involved in any systems biology related research. I would repeat an old phrase that mentions something to effect of "those who can't teach" but that is unfair to teachers who can, and teach too.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,13:08   

It's not a theory.
It has no explanatory power.
Your knowledge of cognitive science is non-existent.

I cite the previous hundreds of pages of this thread, and your 9+ years of internt wandering as proof.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,13:41   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,12:57)
Quote (Texas Teach @ May 21 2016,12:05)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,11:57)
   
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,07:43)
This allows them to calculate the chance of false positive signals, which in turn allows them to calculate the efficieny of the system in distinguishing true signals from noise.
         
Quote
In the above example, doubling the number of synapses and hence introducing a 50% noise tolerance, increases the chance of error to only 1.6 × 10^−18.


I'm skipping over the significant portion of the paper that discusses how all this translates to learning rules for memorization of sequences, but "a network of standard linear or non-linear neurons with a simplified dendrite structure cannot easily implement these activation and learning rules."

This in some ways corresponds to your "confidence evaluation".  In particular, you are going to get all excited that the authors talk about incrementing and decrementing............


There is no confidence "evaluation" just confidence "levels" associated with each data element stored in memory.

And no, a single neuron learning how to reliably respond to a given set of sensory inputs is indicative of self-organization of a memory-wide addressing circuit made of made of many neurons.

Spare me the long pompous speeches about what authors in another area of science are writing about. I rely on neuroscience related research for clues how the human brain is wired together as I expect it to be, but I am not doing what everyone else is doing and I am proud of that even though you spit on me for not doing what everyone else does.

So you demand everyone else connect biology to cognitive science even when that has fuck all to do with their research, but you don't care what everyone else is doing?  Can't you see how hypocritical that is?

Did you on purpose misrepresent what I said or are you normally an asshole?

What the theory explains very much connects to biology, but expecting educators such as yourself (not that all are like you most are not) to have a functional understanding of what is most important to know in cognitive science is asking too much from an asshole that is not even involved in any systems biology related research. I would repeat an old phrase that mentions something to effect of "those who can't teach" but that is unfair to teachers who can, and teach too.

We know you're an asshole, and you completely failed to understand what I said. You demand that evolutionary biology must have something to do with intelligence and cognitive science.  This is both stupid and false.

Your admitted lack of education leads you to insist that molecules guess.  Any actual education in chemistry would make you pause before suggesting something so ludicrous.  

Your arrogance leads you to insist that because you read a few books about robots you understand science better than people who actually got an education and do this for a living.

You're hypocrisy leads you to demand that scientists listen to your "ideas" whilst ignoring anything they have to say.

Guess better, Gaulin.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,13:42   

Quote
And please explain how the paper relates to cellular and it's genetic level intelligence. You are avoiding that by repeating what the paper says while ignoring all else that I have to cover.

No, why should I?  That's YOUR job.  The paper doesn't relate to those things at all, because they don't exist.  If you want to drag them in, it's up to YOU to demonstrate that they are necessary and valid concepts.  The paper demonstrates that they are not necessary concepts, because it can explain what's going on by simple biochemical processes.  

I'm mentioning what the paper says because that's what it says and that's what I'm talking about.  Duh.  

Moreover, I have a basic measure of trust in what the paper says because it fairly summarizes prior research (thereby suggesting that the authors know what they are talking about (unlike you), because they state definitions clearly where needed (unlike you), because they provide supporting evidence (unlike you), because they model processes from the bottom up (unlike you), ground-truth their model (unlike you), because they provide valid and falsifiable predictions (unlike you), because they write comprehensibly (unlike you), and because they don't make outrageous and outlandish claims far beyond the domain of their model (unlike you).  Also, Hawkins is the inventor of the Palm Pilot, so he starts out with a significant level of credibility (unlike you - your presentations and responses have totally destroyed any credibility you ever had, putting you deep into a credibility deficit).

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,13:57   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,13:42)
No, why should I?  That's YOUR job.  The paper doesn't relate to those things at all, because they don't exist.

That's a convent excuse for dismissing things that do not serve your biases, before it is even possible to one way or another know for sure. Academic laziness.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,14:01   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,14:57)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,13:42)
No, why should I?  That's YOUR job.  The paper doesn't relate to those things at all, because they don't exist.

That's a convent excuse for dismissing things that do not serve your biases, before it is even possible to one way or another know for sure. Academic laziness.

Stand in front of a mirror and say that to yourself until it sinks in.

The only one playing games here, the only one grasping for excuses not to do the work here is you.

We all know it, we've all called you on it.

You pathetic ignorant stupid loser.

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,14:21   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,13:57)
Academic laziness.

When was the last time you visited a university library?

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Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,14:27   

Quote
There is no confidence "evaluation" just confidence "levels" associated with each data element stored in memory.
OK, so you don't want to take any benefits from the closest point of approach in that paper to your rubbish. Fine by me.  (Although they do explain how the neuron in effect sums or integrates the signals provided to it and recognizes patterns, thereby evaluating information.)

     
Quote
And no, a single neuron learning how to reliably respond to a given set of sensory inputs is indicative of self-organization of a memory-wide addressing circuit made of made of many neurons.
That's not responsive to what they said.  They are addressing failures of the standard model of neurons (with only a few synapses and no dendrites) cannot take advantage of the specific learning algorithm that they describe in the paper.

     
Quote
Our neuron model requires two changes to the learning rules by which most neural models learn. First, learning occurs by growing and removing synapses from a pool of “potential” synapses (Chklovskii et al., 2004). Second, Hebbian learning and synaptic change occur at the level of the dendritic segment, not the entire neuron (Stuart and Häusser, 2001).


     
Quote
I rely on neuroscience related research for clues how the human brain is wired together as I expect it to be
There's one of your problems - you are driven by your expectations, not by actual data, and you do not see why that is problematic.

     
Quote
I am not doing what everyone else is doing and I am proud of that even though you spit on me for not doing what everyone else does.
No.  I object primarily to the things that you assert that are objectively wrong.  I care much less whether or not you do what everyone else does: if it worked, fine, but it very clearly doesn't.  You'd have a much better chance of getting something right if you used scientific methods, but it's your time to waste, up until you falsely claim to be following scientific methods, or until you lie about scientific methods being wrong.  

The facts that no one agrees with what you are doing, or views your procedures as scientific, or follows your example and does what you do, or is interested enough in your ideas to investigate them independently (or with you) overall would suggest to pretty much any rational person (evidently excluding you) that what you are doing is wrong.  However, you appear to be immune to critical self-examination.

   
Quote
That's a convent excuse for dismissing things that do not serve your biases, before it is even possible to one way or another know for sure. Academic laziness.

I think you meant convenient, but I'll readily agree that your stuff is a cloister-folk of nunsense if you wish.

You are the one who is too lazy to do basic due-diligence on your own stuff, so you are projecting again.  If you think you have something that deserves everyone else's attention, do your work properly and make a valid case for it.  You have yet to present ANYTHING that suggests that your ideas deserve to be taken seriously.

 
Quote
What the theory explains very much connects to biology, but expecting educators such as yourself (not that all are like you most are not) to have a functional understanding of what is most important to know in cognitive science is asking too much from an asshole that is not even involved in any systems biology related research.
Have someone read that to you.  Although I can figure out what you meant, it would benefit from rewriting and punctuation.  One initial reading suggests that it is unrealistic to ask a-holes such as yourself who are not involved in any systems biology research to expect that educators should understand cognitive science.  Re-writing might focus your point a bit.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,14:58   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 21 2016,14:21)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,13:57)
Academic laziness.

When was the last time you visited a university library?

To be fair, with journals, Wikipedia, and Google Earth, etc.,  available on the internet, I don't get there with anywhere near the frequency that I used to.

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,15:16   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,14:58)
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 21 2016,14:21)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,13:57)
Academic laziness.

When was the last time you visited a university library?

To be fair, with journals, Wikipedia, and Google Earth, etc.,  available on the internet, I don't get there with anywhere near the frequency that I used to.

I understand that, but GG has complained many times about not having access to papers that are vital to his real-science work.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,15:42   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 21 2016,15:16)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,14:58)
 
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 21 2016,14:21)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,13:57)
Academic laziness.

When was the last time you visited a university library?

To be fair, with journals, Wikipedia, and Google Earth, etc.,  available on the internet, I don't get there with anywhere near the frequency that I used to.

I understand that, but GG has complained many times about not having access to papers that are vital to his real-science work.

He won't have good access to journal articles behind paywalls.  There may be work-arounds for numerous articles, such as authors posting PDFs in their CVs, but we are definitely and regrettably in a two-tier world with respect to access to scientific information.  He has legitimate grounds for complaint in this area.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,15:46   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,15:42)
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 21 2016,15:16)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,14:58)
 
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 21 2016,14:21)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,13:57)
Academic laziness.

When was the last time you visited a university library?

To be fair, with journals, Wikipedia, and Google Earth, etc.,  available on the internet, I don't get there with anywhere near the frequency that I used to.

I understand that, but GG has complained many times about not having access to papers that are vital to his real-science work.

He won't have good access to journal articles behind paywalls.  There may be work-arounds for numerous articles, such as authors posting PDFs in their CVs, but we are definitely and regrettably in a two-tier world with respect to access to scientific information.

The problem is Gary likes to claim to have read papers when he's only seen the abstract, at best.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,16:07   

Or a news release.  And then fails to understand even the little he has read.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,16:11   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,16:07)
Or a news release.  And then fails to understand even the little he has read.

Of course, it's just academic snobbery to expect him to read and understand scientific research. We should all bow down before his superior ignorance.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,16:13   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,14:27)
Quote
I rely on neuroscience related research for clues how the human brain is wired together as I expect it to be
There's one of your problems - you are driven by your expectations, not by actual data, and you do not see why that is problematic.

What a scam. A theory is expected to provide "predictions" then when the predictions are used and successfully tested a theory is suddenly NOT supposed to make predictions anymore.

Hypocrite.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,16:23   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,16:13)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 21 2016,14:27)
 
Quote
I rely on neuroscience related research for clues how the human brain is wired together as I expect it to be
There's one of your problems - you are driven by your expectations, not by actual data, and you do not see why that is problematic.

What a scam. A theory is expected to provide "predictions" then when the predictions are used and successfully tested a theory is suddenly NOT supposed to make predictions anymore.

Hypocrite.

I can't find a way to read your sentence that makes any sense.  
Please elaborate on what you meant.

Theories don't work like that (and I didn't imply that they did, if that's what you are driving at).  

As long as theories remain unfalsified, they typically continue to generate new hypotheses.  (One of the hallmarks of success for a theory is its fruitfulness.)

If you are trying to imply that you have made valid predictions that have been successful, you would be wrong.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,16:37   

The predictions made by the theory are still testing to be true. The paper you are slapping me with is further evidence in the theory's favor. I expected such an "addressing" system to in time be described.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,17:08   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,17:37)
The predictions made by the theory are still testing to be true. The paper you are slapping me with is further evidence in the theory's favor. I expected such an "addressing" system to in time be described.

It is not a theory.
It makes no predictions.
It is both counter-factual and viciously circular.

You are delusional.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,17:15   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 21 2016,16:37)
The predictions made by the theory are still testing to be true. The paper you are slapping me with is further evidence in the theory's favor. I expected such an "addressing" system to in time be described.

Sure, memories are stored and retrieved.   However, the memories are not exactly randomly stored and accessed.  The memories hypothesized in this paper are about sequences, not about locations.  Your system involves molecular intelligence, which differs from this system, and which you have asserted, but have not yet established, or operationally defined. Etc.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2016,22:38   

Quote (Texas Teach @ May 21 2016,13:41)
You demand that evolutionary biology must have something to do with intelligence and cognitive science.  This is both stupid and false.

And by the way:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_human_intelligence

The US taxpayer is not served by incompetent educators who don't know or don't care what is really going on in science.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
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