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  Topic: Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,08:19   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 03 2008,07:39)
DS leaves the tent open for creationists
Quote
Consider that the true age of the universe could be anywhere from 6000 years to an infinite number of years.

YEC

DS, do you honestly think the universe might turn out to be 6000 years old?

In the same post, DS finishes strong, giving poster Jerry a proper "mooning"  ..."the instantiation process must be largely bottom-up."

I realize that this is an ugly picture for a Monday morning, but sometimes science hurts.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,09:44   

GilTard:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/biology/bird-brains-gnc-and-id/

Lots of personal incredulity with a bit of "birds talking to him"

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,10:24   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 03 2008,09:44)
GilTard:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/biology/bird-brains-gnc-and-id/

Lots of personal incredulity with a bit of "birds talking to him"

The level of religious posturing in that thread is amazing - they don't know how evolution could have resulted in avian flight, but they certainly know that "goddidit" is a better explanation...

And we are also treated to Davetard's notions about the aquatic development of flight.  
Quote
On the evolution of flight I’d point out that hydrofoils and airfoils rely on exactly the same principles. Ostensibly all forms of life that fly in the air descended from life that first flew in water. Water is much more forgiving of flaws since living things have essentially the same density as water. Hydrofoils and associated GNC systems could have evolved piecemeal in an environment where neutral buoyancy was first obtained then speed & manueverability were added subsequently. Once all that was perfected in water additional development in the way of energy production and weight savings could occur on land to make aeroflight possible.

Per usual, the science tells us that DT has it exactly backward...

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Steverino



Posts: 411
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,10:39   

mmmmmmmmmmmm.......how would something evolve to fly, when there is no need for flight underwater?

Did I miss something?

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,11:48   

Flying fish, maybe?

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,12:51   

Did davetard mention how angels got their wings?  natural selection, unspeakable sex with birds or?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,13:50   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 03 2008,12:51)
Did davetard mention how angels got their wings?

Cripes!  Everyone knows an angel get their wings when someone rings a bell.  What kind of dogmatic, materialist just-so story are you going to spin?



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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,14:35   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,13:50)
   
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 03 2008,12:51)
Did davetard mention how angels got their wings?

Cripes!  Everyone knows an angel get their wings when someone rings a bell.  What kind of dogmatic, materialist just-so story are you going to spin?


You're confusing cause and effect, Carlson. If you were educated, you'd know that a bell rings whenever an angel gets their wings, not the other way around. Yeesh.  :angry:

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,14:38   

HAR HAR THIS IS YOUR PIC LINK:

Ardensputer/pr0n/donkeys/midgitdonkeys/gay/favoutites/my_love.jpeg

edit? Yes.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,14:48   

Dude, don't violate my SLoT:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/science....es-2lot

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,14:53   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 03 2008,14:35)
   
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,13:50)
      Cripes!  Everyone knows an angel get their wings when someone rings a bell.  What kind of dogmatic, materialist just-so story are you going to spin?

You're confusing cause and effect, Carlson. If you were educated, you'd know that a bell rings whenever an angel gets their wings, not the other way around. Yeesh.  :angry:

HA HA THIS IS YOU:


Pffft. I refer you to a source in the primary literature:
   
Quote

Zuzu Bailey: Look, Daddy. Teacher says, every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings.
George Bailey: That's right, that's right.

That, of course, is an equivocal statement vis-a-vis establishing causation. So, at a minimum we should Teach the Controversy ™ However, in light of earlier work from the same source:
   
Quote

Nick: [ringing the cash register repeatedly] Get me. I'm givin' out wings.

....I retort: QED, beeyotch!

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,15:03   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,14:53)
Pffft. I refer you to a source in the primary literature:
       
Quote

Zuzu Bailey: Look, Daddy. Teacher says, every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings.
George Bailey: That's right, that's right.

That, of course, is an equivocal statement vis-a-vis establishing causation. So, at a minimum we should Teach the Controversy ™

Correlation is *not* causation, Carlson. I shouldn't have to tell you this.  :angry:

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,15:08   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 03 2008,15:03)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,14:53)
Pffft. I refer you to a source in the primary literature:
         
Quote

Zuzu Bailey: Look, Daddy. Teacher says, every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings.
George Bailey: That's right, that's right.

That, of course, is an equivocal statement vis-a-vis establishing causation. So, at a minimum we should Teach the Controversy ™

Correlation is *not* causation, Carlson. I shouldn't have to tell you this.  :angry:

Quote miner!!!!  You have conveniently forgot to include this statement:
Quote
Nick: [ringing the cash register repeatedly] Get me. I'm givin' out wings.

which clearly establishes causation.

But, as long as you are trying to be smart and what not, explain to me again how Portuguese isn't a combination of French and Spanish. I always loved that just-so story.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,15:15   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 03 2008,14:38)
HAR HAR THIS IS YOUR PIC LINK:

Ardensputer/pr0n/donkeys/midgitdonkeys/gay/favoutites/my_love.jpeg

That link doesn't work. Can you retype it?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,15:17   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,15:08)
Quote miner!!!!  You have conveniently forgot to include this statement:
   
Quote
Nick: [ringing the cash register repeatedly] Get me. I'm givin' out wings.

which clearly establishes causation.

Are you saying that Nick is the Designer?

Quote

But, as long as you are trying to be smart and what not, explain to me again how Portuguese isn't a combination of French and Spanish. I always loved that just-so story.


And I bet you have the exact dates when I posted that memorized, right?

*SHAKES HEAD PITYINGLY*

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,16:31   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 03 2008,15:17)
   
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,15:08)
Quote miner!!!!  You have conveniently forgot to include this statement:
         
Quote
Nick: [ringing the cash register repeatedly] Get me. I'm givin' out wings.

which clearly establishes causation.

Are you saying that Nick is the Designer?

I am making no implication one way or the other as to the identity of the designer, although I may be branded a heretic by the greater ID community for making a statement regarding the potential means employed by such a designer.
   
Quote
   
Quote

But, as long as you are trying to be smart and what not, explain to me again how Portuguese isn't a combination of French and Spanish. I always loved that just-so story.


And I bet you have the exact dates when I posted that memorized, right?

*SHAKES HEAD PITYINGLY*

Congratulations, Arden.  To maintain such a petulant facade  when you were pwned by none other than AFDave takes an extraordinary amount of self-delusion.  I salute you.



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,16:47   

So...*why* did angels evolve wings?  Is there a benefit for those who have wings in heaven?  does god have wings or can he just appear spontaniously with no need for wings or say a Ford Bronco?  

nevermind...I bet god has a full time driver.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,16:53   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 03 2008,16:47)
So...*why* did angels evolve wings?  Is there a benefit for those who have wings in heaven?  does god have wings or can he just appear spontaniously with no need for wings or say a Ford Bronco?  

nevermind...I bet god has a full time driver.

Because heaven is in the sky, silly!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,17:34   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 03 2008,07:39)
DS leaves the tent open for creationists
 
Quote
Consider that the true age of the universe could be anywhere from 6000 years to an infinite number of years.

YEC

DS, do you honestly think the universe might turn out to be 6000 years old?

Dear sweet God. My inner physicist is weeping. Not only might the universe be no more than six thousand years old, there's no real difference between five billion and fourteen billion, and the second law of entropy secretly dictates that no system of any kind can arise ever. It's not like life forms, fusion reactions, or anything else could consume energy.

--------------
"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,17:36   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,16:31)
Congratulations, Arden.  To maintain such a petulant facade  when you were pwned by none other than AFDave takes an extraordinary amount of self-delusion.  I salute you.

HAH! EVEN YOU HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUPERIORITY OF MY ARGUMENTS!



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,17:39   

Quote (Annyday @ Mar. 03 2008,17:34)
Dear sweet God. My inner physicist is weeping. Not only might the universe be no more than six thousand years old, there's no real difference between five billion and fourteen billion,

This is one of the most valuable things that FTK taught us in her time here: that 6,000 years and 4 billion years are really the same thing.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,18:08   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 03 2008,17:36)
 
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,16:31)
Congratulations, Arden.  To maintain such a petulant facade  when you were pwned by none other than AFDave takes an extraordinary amount of self-delusion.  I salute you.

HAH! EVEN YOU HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUPERIORITY OF MY ARGUMENTS!


I will acknowledge that you have a certain facility for appropriating other peoples material.

While the expression and caption are different, it seems to be the same cat.

Added in edit: I remember this because it is the one, and only, LOLCat I ever made.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,18:36   

carlsonjok, your memory is freaking me out, dude.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,18:45   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,18:08)
While the expression and caption are different, it seems to be the same cat.

June 2, 2007.

Last summer.

I see.

Carlson, you really need a girlfriend, or boyfriend, or whatever. And that's even by ATBC standards.

PS: different pose = different picture.

Result = my plagiarism disproven, your homoness proven.

I AM THE GREATEST!

USA! USA! USA!


--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,19:32   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 03 2008,18:45)
   
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2008,18:08)
While the expression and caption are different, it seems to be the same cat.

June 2, 2007.

Last summer.

I see.

Carlson, you really need a girlfriend,

I agree.  Could you talk to my wife about that?  I don't think she'll believe me.
 
Quote
PS: different pose = different picture.

Result = my plagiarism disproven, your homoness proven.

I AM THE GREATEST!

USA! USA! USA!

Pfft. You are just unwilling to admit that you are reduced to trodding in my mighty footsteps.

HAR HAR. THIS IS YOU



PS. I can has bookmark file.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,20:37   

The thread “No process can result in a net gain of information” underlies 2LoT is silly, and doubly so.  First DLH picks up a paper from a third-rate physics teacher at a third-rate university (who publishes his stuff in the aforementioned silly journal Entropy), then the church choir sings variations of “Entropy is disorder."  

Entropy does not equate disorder.  This common misunderstanding has been discussed many times by physicists, but it isn't going away anytime soon.  Consider this excerpt from an  article published in the Journal of Chemical Education:
Quote
To aid students in visualizing an increase in entropy many elementary chemistry texts use artists' before-and-after drawings of groups of "orderly" molecules that become "disorderly".  This has been an anachronism ever since the ideas of quantized energy levels were introduced in elementary chemistry.  "Orderly-disorderly" seems to be an easy visual support but it can be so grievously misleading as to be characterized as a failure-prone crutch rather than a truly reliable, sturdy aid.

After mentioning the origin of this visual device in the late 1800s and listing some errors in its use in modern texts, I will build on a recent article by Daniel F. Styer.  It succinctly summarizes objections from statistical mechanics to characterizing higher entropy conditions as disorderly (1).  Then after citing many failures of "disorder" as a criterion for evaluating entropy — all educationally unsettling, a few serious, I will urge the abandonment of order-disorder in introducing entropy to beginning students.  Although it seems plausible, it is vague and potentially misleading, a non-fundamental description that does not point toward calculation or elaboration in elementary chemistry, and an anachronism since the introduction of portions of quantum mechanics in first-year textbooks.

There are well-known examples of physical systems where the onset of order is accompanied by an increase in entropy.  The great chemist Lars Onsager pointed out as early as in 1949 that the ordered (nematic) phase of hard, rod-shaped molecules has a higher entropy than the corresponding fully disordered phase.  Peter Pusey explains in a recent Science perspective that a liquid of hard spheres freezes with an increase in entropy:
Quote
The freezing transition of hard spheres was discovered by computer simulation in 1957 (3) and confirmed some 30 years later by experiments on colloidal suspensions (4). The transition is driven by entropy--paradoxically, the apparently ordered crystal has a higher entropy than the metastable fluid from which it grows, for example (5, 6)--and is controlled by just one variable, the concentration by volume, or volume fraction, of the particles in the suspension. As the concentration is increased, spheres in the fluid become increasingly crowded by their neighbors. By crystallizing, they gain more freedom for local motions: While ordered on the large scale, a crystal is locally disordered. Above the melting concentration (volume fraction 0.545) the entropy loss associated with large-scale ordering is more than offset by the entropy gain associated with increased local freedom.


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,21:12   

They're busy making new 'laws of information' even as we speak.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,23:46   

Quote
The thread “No process can result in a net gain of information” underlies 2LoT is silly, and doubly so.
Don't be unfair. Due to the main stream science conspiracy they don't get funding and have to pick the evidence from their alphabet soup.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2008,02:00   

Oooh!  Someone's in a bad mood
Quote


5

O'Leary

03/03/2008

4:15 pm

sparc, you wrote,

“Isn’t citing the Vice President for Research and Personnel Development Martin Bucer Seminary who according to the seminary’s web pages hosted an intelligent design creationists symposium in Prague (October 22, 2005) the same as discussing the issue with a Toronto-based journalist; grandmother; Roman Catholic Christian?”

Watch it. You and your posts may be gone soon.

This list is for intelligent people who want to discuss issues, not personalities.

You are not persuading me that either you or your posts belong here.

This whole thread could disappear into the night with no loss, and it well may, unless you start saying something to the purpose.

For all her faults, Denyse doesn't normally channel the DaveScot stream of tard.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2008,06:08   

Sal informs us that Caroline Crocker is selling a new product, intellectual honesty.  $5,000 if made from scratch, $1,000 for gently used.  Details are available from her agent at intellectual IntellectualHonesty.info.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
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